You got it.

That's what I meant as well.

Gotcha, didn't want our trans-pacific mojos conflicting.

I'm out. Have to go home and sleeeeeep.

*vanish*

Cronin is going to regret having me in this game. I've probably sent him more PMs than I've posted publically in this thread.

If so it's on Tyrith's end as cronin confirmed he's got no record of the message.

Ooh. That's bad. Tyrith is on the block then.

I need to close this window out, or I'll never get any studying done. BTW, got my first real non-Navy paycheck today! Woot!

The following lawsuits will be heard today:

CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES PEREGRINUS BARBARUS
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES DADDYUS TORGOUS
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES MUSTANGUS SALLUS
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Antus Meisterus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Autumnus Leavus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Narcizus Lispus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Pathus Twelveus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Peregrinus Barbarus
Dodgus Erickus sues Lonestarus Girlus
Pathus Twelvus sues Autumnus Leavus
Pathus Twelvus sues Tyrus Ithus
Pathus Twelvus sues Chiefus Rumus
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES DODGUS ERChICKUS
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES NARCIZUS LISPIS
GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS SUES Lonstarus Girlus
Peregrinus sues Grammaticus
Grammaticus Atticus sues Perigrinus
Mustang Salleous sues Ironsus Headus
Antus Meisterus sues Lonestarus Girlus
Antus Meisterus sues Coffeus Stainus Warlordus
Narcizo sues Lonestargirl
Narcizo sues Passus Caglius
Narcizo sues NeonChaos
AUTUMNUS SUES PASSUS CAGLIUS
AUTUMNUS SUES LONESTARUS GIRLUS
HOOPUS GUYUS SUES NARCIZUS LISPUS



The following lawsuits will be heard when the courts find time:

Dodgus Erickus sues Ironsus Headus
Dodgus Erickus sues Tyrus Ithus
Dodgus Erickus sues Antus Meisterus
Dodgus Erickus sues Passus Caglius
Dodgus Erickus sues Coffeus Yakus Warlordus
Dodgus Erickus sues Narcizus Lispus
Dodgus Erickus sues Autumnus Leavus
Dodgus Erickus sues Chiefus Rumus
Dodgus Erickus sues Peregrinus Barbarus
Dodgus Erickus sues Grammus Atticus
Mustang Salleous sues Lonestarus Girlus
Mustang Salleous sues Abeus Anxietus
Mustang Salleous sues Autumnus Leavus
Mustang Salleous sues Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus
Mustang Salleous sues Kayus Whitus
Mustang Salleous sues Narcizus Lispus
GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS SUES Passus Caglius
GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS SUES Mustangus
GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS SUES Neonus Chaosus
GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS SUES Antmeisterus
GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS SUES Dodgerus Erchickus
GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS SUES Ironus Headus

Grats, AE.

I guess I'd like to hear from Tyrith, too, obvoiusly.

So which is it Ardent? Do you want to submit to the will of the majority or to the will of the majority + 3?

I've got a bunch of lawsuits out there as well, I presume they come after the ones listed.

Narc -- since you seem to be more on top of this game, I'll ask you this:

I'm in agreement with the idea of jailing the lawyers, and checking them out. I know how you can jail them, but -- how do you plan to check them out? Are we going to have someone hire AE to check out NC? If so, what if both are evil? Or is there another way?

If lawsuits could expose a traitor, would a traitor really want to do alot of lawsuits? They need to expand their wealth (unless they are wealthy already) but, at a risk of exposure so, if someone is in the middle or low on the wealth chain with alot of lawsuits, I would tend to lean more towards them not being a Tarq. I'd more target those people in the middle that have done a few lawsuits but, haven't gone overboard (risk/reward... maybe they don't want to push their luck but, they have to do something)

If there a reasonable faction of people wanting me jailed, then do it. That's all I'm saying.

By the way.. not saying AE is or isn't a Tarq.. his post just made me think.

Um... I'm not planning on jailing the lawyers. The plan would be to check them out and then jail them if necessary.

I'm currently considering what we would do if they're both evil. But to be honest I think that we're screwed if that's the case so it doesn't really matter.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

Since antmeister isn't an option, then, I'd choose to jail Tyrith.

I had that thought as well, and considered sending out a bunch of suits as well to spot more traitors. But then I thought it seems like everyone is suing everyone else well enough, and I don't need to mess around with all that. But a thought just now occured to me. Since Dodgerus Chickus is the richest, no one has sued her, assuming she will hire the best lawyer.

PASSUS CAGLIUS SUES DODGERUS CHICKUS

Let's see what happens.

Why so much precaution about simply jailing? If we jail them, maybe we can check them out without their interference.

If you sue somebody and lose, there may be negative consequences. There is also a small chance that evidence of treason may come out.

Therefore, if you are a Tarq in the middle or lower levels, you want to and need to gain wealth but, you aren't going to want to sue everybody. Having alot of lawsuits out there increases your chances so you would want to do a few but, not go overboard. If you were at the top of the wealth chain, you wouldn't probably do any really (good or bad though).

Apparently she has at least twice.

My hope is that no one below me bid on Macro, thinking that I was going to win it.

By the way, we can't arrest the Tribunal or Consul but, if people have that strong of an opinion on one of the members and want them arrested, if a loyalist has the potential services of a killer, couldn't we just make a public plea to have one of the Tribunal or Consul members potentially killed?

Ah, I get it now.

Oh, well. I guess I thought she hadn't, since she kept hiring the best lawyer, and there was never any public record of that hire. I don't remember all the details, and I couldn't find the post where it had everyone's legal win-loss record -- but I did notice that when you claimed to sue everyone, you left her out! :)

Nope, I got the top 3 elsewhere. :)

Yes, but I think there is nowhere near enough suspicion to kill a Tribunal or Consul outright at this point, and besides, given the events of last night, it is extremely unlikely that a loyalist has Macro.

That is a Tarqing post.

Why wouldn't you hope that someone that is a loyalist would have potentially won the services of Macro?

My assumption is that anyone else who bid on Macro is a Tarq.

See that now. Less than an hour ago. Today is not my day.

Already had 2 people suggest Ant to be arrested and it is early. If 10 people want to arrest Ant obviously there is suspicion there beyond me.

Obviously not talking about killing a tribunal or consul member if only one or two people have suspicions. Talking about a group as a whole.

St.Cronin, I had sent in a few suits that I don't see on this list. I don't know if they were missed or got bumped somehow.

It seems that the ability to use the lawyers to scan somebody is out of the control, or knowledge of the lawyers. So, in other words I don't think we have to worry about them lying.

That assumes that a loyalist has Macro, which I don't believe to be the case. It feels like you're trying to get someone to have Macro kill a loyal Senator, and play it off like it was a loyalist move. I have some suspicion of Ant as well -- just not that much.

To all: If you have lawsuits not listed please point me to the post number and I'll add them. I know I have already added a few back in that somehow didn't get cut n pasted right.

I actually feel very certain about Antmeisterus being a traitor. Given that he has managed to get bumped up to Tribune, I am willing to discuss him being killed. Keep in mind that is our only means to remove. Keep also in mind that I blieve the Tribune has the ability to cancel an execution. Given the fact that we have yet to kill any traitors, a free pass for the traitors is extremely dangerous.

If Neonus Chaosus is also a traitor, we are in a tough spot. The fact that he says he received no PM about IMus Thecrewus suggests that either he or AE are liars. I have a better feeling about Ardentus, but would like more evidence on both of them.

I'm very interested in hearing what Tyrith has to say at the moment. It seems odd that anyone is going to lie about something as trivial as sending a message. I'm going to have a look back at the context to see what was going on there as it's not something I even remember.

Good point.

I would at least like to hear from Cronin that I've been hired by so and so to look into so and so. That way at least I have something to go on.

Narcizo, another option we have is to jail Barkeep and Tyrith and hope that we are able to sort this mess out between them with attorney scans today.

Yes, but the message the lawyers receive when someone dies goes directly to them. Not as big of a deal, since the person in question is dead, but if we're talking about voting patterns, it might be useful. However, I can see problems with jailing the lawyers as well, if the info we get from them is definitely true (however, we need to be wary of who hires the lawyer as well).

Just thinking out loud...I need to look at when Schmidty took over for Swaggs to see how long Schmidty was on the job.

From what I can see we've only got a maximum of one scan today.

This is a pretty good idea, but I'm inclined to trust barkeep without worrying about it too much. If he was really tarqing around with his inabilit to arrest anyone, I don't think he would go off on KWhit like that. Then again, I don't think I've played with him all that much.

By the way, if you were a loyalist, why would the Tarqs sit back and allow you a guaranteed win for a potential killer?

Either -

A. You're a Tarq.

B. The Tarq's are hoping someone came to this conclusion to set you up.

I'm not sure that this is necessarily the case. It seems logical that the lawyers would be allowed to decide what they report.

I know we're losing lawyers at a pretty fast rate, but you'd think that if that were the case, one of the loyalist lawyers would have mentioned it.

Does a hiring of Schmidtyus not pass on to Neonus? I assume so, but don't know if anyone is sure of that. Another good reason for the traitors to keep killing lawyers.

Keep in mind also that jailing someone at least keeps them from bidding for a service. So it makes sense to jail someone we suspect with enough wealth to do damage. I think they still get to use the service they have already hired before they go to jail though.

Because at the time, I was the second richest Senator in Rome. There was only one Senator who could have outbid me.

If so, Ardentus and Swaggus would both have to be liars, I believe.

Maybe I'm getting my games screwed up. The only way the Tarqs can kill at night is if they hire the services of a killer? (I'm used to other WW games where there is a kill regardless)

If my above statement is true then now I understand your assumptions.

Senator Mustangus seems to be trying an awful lot to raise suspicions in the rest of us, in this case about a Senator I've seen no reason yet to wonder about. That itself seems rather suspicious.

Alright, so Day 1 starts out and Swaggs and I are the 2 lawyers. Day 2 rolls in and we've thrown CW in jail. Swaggs is still alive. Day 2 ends with CW out and Swaggs dead. BS goes on the block.

Day 3 starts with me the best lawyer and Schmidty #2. At the end of the day we kill BS, Alan dies by Tarq, and both me and Schmidty know that BS is good. ITC on the block.

Day 4 Schmidty and I are the lawyers. We kill ITC, but Schmidty dies by Tarq. LSG on the block. Neon is the new lawyer.

My guess, and the reason I did this, is that maybe Neon didn't get info because he just started the job.

Yeah, when I said I was getting suspicious vibes off of Barkeep I was talking about earlier in the game. In retrospect I've a tough time thinking that a wolf is going to avoid putting in two arrest orders and then go after the other consul about it. As KWhit pointed out a bad guy is much more likely to nominate a villager than do nothing. I've huge difficulty imagining a wolf putting himself in the spotlight early on by running to be consul and then drawing even more attention to himself by allowing there to only be one candidate two nights in a row.

See my above question. I think I'm getting my game mechanics screwed up.

Our belief is that the Tarqs can kill by poison every night. They can only kill by sword if they gain the services of the fellow Passacaglia bid on.

I figured that's why he didn't get the info as well. That's the reason you did what?

Assuming, of course, that people hire us to do just that. I don't think it'll happen.

I wish I could just check in on it myself.

Right. By sword. I believe they can poison on their own (as they did to cronin). But the sword kills are probably from a hired man, for better or worse.

Ok.. well then, my question was valid and still remains.

Ah, I had remembered that differently, I was thinking Schmidty started up the job and got that PM.

It would seem that way, but since I have no clue what I'm doing, it's hardly the truth.

We haven't had a lawyer yet that's said, "Holy cow, look at all the cool stuff I can do."

This seems correct based on the evidence available to us.

I think it's pretty established that the sword kills are from a hired service, the only question is whether we can keep hold of that service.

My presumption is that as the person hired Schmidty (he's listed by name) not Lawyer #2 then they won't be getting a lawyer service today. Time will tell on that one.

Yes, you can still use a service when you're in jail. CW did so on day 2 when he used Swaggs to defend himself.

Did this bit of research. It was painful, too. St. Cronin's listing on the start and end of days isn't entirely accurate.

Perfecto. Another wasted bit in this game. Nothing against WVU, LSG, MV, or the rest of the junk that's happened, but dang it. We can't seem to catch a break.

We need Johnus Cochranus. If the toga don't fit.. you must acquitus

Do you mean this question? I already answered it.

I'm also looking into this problem.

~BK, YFWWM

Catching up bottom of page 32. Man, four pages overnight? This game is a bear to keep up with.

You did but, the answer didn't make sense. I'm not sure what being the 2nd richest has to do with my question. If you are a loyalist, the Tarqs would want to attempt to block that in some way I would think. Either by poisoning you, having the only other possible person that would beat you bid on them or just letting it go.

I just don't understand why the Tarqs would just let it go unless the suspicions you have been casting have been completely wrong and they felt safe that you would select someone that was a loyalist anyways.

Post #1278 I had Saldana (not happening now) and Narcizo. Basically trying to figure out where I sit on the pecking order of winning lawsuits.

This is something we should revisit at some point. You don't have to have hundreds of posts to be an active participant. The problem is that many of those with middle numbers of posts have interesting points that get lost in the chatter. I don't have a great solution to that though.

Probably should be its own topic. I wonder if color coding would help.

red = GM remarks
blue = question
green = answer
purple = analysis
black = idle banter

That way, you could scan quicker I would think... but, anyways.. don't want to get too off on a different tangent.

I like that idea.

I think the Tarqs had bigger fish to fry than me -- the poison kill last night was Schmidty, a lawyer. They're probably more interested in getting a Tarq a nice lawyer position (or maybe the top two spots), to see what that does for them. Also, there's a chance that a poison kill might not happen until the next day, meaning they wouldn't have been able to kill me yesterday, unless they chose to do it two days ago.

I see your point a little more (hadn't thought too much about them killing me). It's also worth noting that my triumphant return came pretty close to the deadline, so a Tarq might have put in a bid for Macro earlier in the day, not knowing that I planned to.

Aye, only because you won't ever have to change from the default colour. ;)

In fact, while I hope this is not the case, my guess is that Macro was hired by someone -- otherwise. If no one hired him, cronin could have easily just given him to me, and maybe given Maximus to whoever else might have bid on him. What worries me is the fact that a loyalist was probably less likely to hire him (then again, a loyalist might have tried to hire him earlier in the day before I showed up, too).

I like that idea, also. Perhaps two colors for questions -- one for other players, one for questions to the GM? That can probably be worked out in another thread.

Don't use that Navy crap on me. :)

And I did about 5 minutes or research earlier today. THAT would be purple...and I've doled out what info I get when I get it...that would be some other color...puke green, maybe.

Okey dokey. I'm off now. I'll be back later this evening (afternoon) hoping for a bit more guidance of where to place a provisional arrest order. I'll also be back tomorrow before deadline to see if the night has magically cleared up the picture allowing me to nail a bad guy.

tennessee orange

Barkeep, I am at work and I used your link and it still look me 45 seconds or so to log in. If I can't get in at home I am going to let Cronin know to find me a replacement

This really aggrevates me. I sent the stupid PM. It was addressed to the same person the PMs I have sent that have been responded to were sent. It's sitting there, in my inbox, all nice and timestamped.

Good point. I had forgot that you returned later. I was out the day myself so, when I started posting you started posting so... seemed like you were around all day too.

Although, that would tend one to believe that the moves were already in so, one would tend to look for Tarqs that were around earlier but, not when you returned. I think someone around at the same time as you still might have wanted to change and not allow you a free kill.

Alan T, you're moving up my friends list.

LOL, if this be idle banter, let's have more of it!

I'm feeling very much the same. I'd rather have this all turn out to be a clevery traitor ploy, then at least there'd be some satisfaction in getting butchered. But it seems between snafus and missing players we're just not catching a break anywhere.

Any particular reason for that? If not:

Pathus Twelvus sues Ardentus Enthusiastius for slander.

OK, so there's a reason. Wrong, but a reason nonetheless. My suit stands, however.

And there is still the continuing question of why one particular lawyer seems to be able to stay alive when none of the others have.......

They don't want to kill AE, his random posts are a distraction that clog up our browsers and our brains and stop us from getting to some of the more analytical posts :)

Considering the fact that to the best of my knowledge no case heard so far has contained any information that could either clear or damn someone I have a hard time believing that a Tarq is going to be too worried about that at this point.

By all means, have me jailed.

And Tyrith, your lack of reaction is surprising, to say the least.

Since we can't arrest the Tribune this seems to be a pointless road to go down, and strikes me as a bit suspicious too.

To the Barkeep thing? I sent the damn PM. It's sitting in my sent items folder. Since I know I sent the PM...well, I'm not going to get too worked up about it -- I remember how crazy it was helping to run Marvel, and I wasn't even in the driver's seat. One PM is something very easy to get lost in the mess.

Tyrith, there was already one instance where our friendly neighborhood moderator Cronin came out and said there was a mix-up on PMs. He hasn't said that in regards to you and Barkeep so far.

So, without him coming out and indicating moderator error we are left to draw the conclusion that there is not moderator error.

Why would you lie about sending him a PM?
Why would he lie about receiving a PM?

If we are heading down this path for arrests - which I would listen to but there doesn't seem to be a widespread hue and cry for this approach - then those are the questions I would be looking to understand.

Why? If they are the ones who get the PM's with the results, what's to prevent them from saying whatever they want?

That of course refers to other players having them scan a particular player. There is the double check factor for the dead senators, and I agree that as long as there are two lawyers active that information should be accurate.

Well, since at this point it's more or less accepted that I had the service that day...the only reason I can think of to lie about it would be to lure BK into saying he didn't get the message, then try to spring some sort of a double fake where I turn the lie into him being a wolf trying to condemn an innocent man. However, that play would take more elegance, guts, and ability to convince people than I seem to have in this game.

I fully suspect this is just another PM mixup. No big deal -- I honestly had nothing to share with him, and I more or less said so in the message I sent him. However, I had the service so I felt like I should use it and get into contact with someone that knows more and is better at this game than I, hoping that maybe something good would happen.