It's back.

Arpaio: Obama birth record 'definitely fraudulent' - Yahoo! News

I'm sure it is just a coincidence that the members of the volunteer posse also have books to sell on the subject.

Between him and our drunken Governor, we are one Clown short of a Circus.

Since I have lived in Arizona Arpaio has gone from a tough Sheriif you could somewhat respect, to a delusional media whore.

:D

Gotta love this quote from another article:


Arpaio: Obama birth certificate issue needs further investigation

Still a ways to go to catch up to Florida.

Has anyone actually looked into whether Hawaii actually exists? I've seen a few photos from "friends" on Facebook and watched the Warriors play USC but those guys could have flown in from anywhere.

Sort of wonder if Republicans would have been better off with another candidate. Even Gingrich doesn't seem that horrible of a choice now. It just seems bad timing to put a guy like Romney out there with our current financial situation and the causes of it.

The other rumor floating around is that Romney didn't pay taxes in 2009. Since most people lost a ton of money when the markets crashed, there is a good chance he lost money (almost everyone who had any investments did). It would make sense and is fair. But probably won't be looked upon too well by the public.

Should be interesting to see how this whole thing plays out.

Admittedly a newb constituitional scholar-

Let's just say that Obama wins, and next march just says that he's tired of living a lie. He shows pictures of his dad holding up a Kenyan newspaper and a baby 2 days after Obama's birth

He might be disqualified from office according to the law, but I believe he would still have to stand trial after being impeached. And it seems far fetched that enough people would vote guilty in order to remove him from office.

God help Florida :)

His mother is an American. That's enough. He wouldn't be disqualified for having one parent that wasn't born in the U.S. That's the parody of this entire farce of a conversation. Fucking George Romney was ACTUALLY BORN in ACTUAL MEXICO. Besides, this whole thing is playing out like Chester A. Arthur's whole deal where they said he was born Ireland or Canada when he was running for VP. Naturally it ended up not getting any credence, people just throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks.

Besides, you REALLY think dude would wait until NOW to come out and say "OH AMERRYCA. JUST KIDDING. I REALLY AM A MOOSLEM AFRIKAN."

No f-ing way. You die with that lie or at least, wait until you're completely out of office and write the memoirs for another best selling book. But to think he'd be let off the hook given how much shit this dude gets for even the most pedestrian things...there's just no way. He'd be drawn and quartered and forced to resign immediately.

I love the birther stuff.

He was born in 1961 -- it isn't like he was born in an era before recorded time was accurate or so long ago that no one living would remember him.

On top of that, does anyone think that the Clinton's wouldn't have played this card in the '08 primaries if they thought it had any legs whatsoever?

Its Sheriff Joe -an allaround, racist scumbag (not surprisingly, I think JIMGA was a big fan) who thinks brown people are basically vermin, and treats them as such. The old fart would leave the world a better place if he popped it.

I love that the super proof is "some journalist talked to a 95 year old and let us hear the tape and in that tape the journalist says that these obscure codes here, here and here mean this field wasn't filled in. GAME OVER BITCHES"

Assuming the 95 year old isn't senile as fuck and/or hates Obama, it actually makes me even more sure the document is real. If the US government is going to forge a document that establishes birth eligibility for the damn president, they are going to get the codes right.

I would like to believe the US is supplying or helping provide arms, intelligence etc. I think Syria is going down, question is when and who will be replacing Assad.

Syrian rebels claim they staged bombing that killed defense minister and his deputy - The Washington Post

That's what caught my eye. I think everyone here can relate to either their parents and/or grandparents, who can't remember where they put their glasses/teeth/Depends from 50 minutes ago, but this guy remembers codes from forms he filled out 50 years ago.

Yeah, pulling a millionaire out of the bag is probably not the wisest trick they could have pulled. The Democrats are going to be able to whip that horse quite a bit. It's exactly the same mistake the Dems had with Kerry, and while Romney doesn't have the "liberal elite" label to deal with (I think the Republicans will support a millionaire better) the economy is much worse and it's going to be hard work to convince people to get excited about some rich dude.

I'm with you until you suggest Gingrich would be doing better. Ultimately a true fiscal conservative, social moderate would be absolutely hitting it out of the park right now. It's a shame those people are being driven out of the republican party as traitors and haven't existed in the democrat party for quite some time.

It won't be hard to convince retarded people that a change to Romney is needed. Living in a small rural town makes me feel sad. A majority of the people I live near seem to think Romney is gonna magically make jobs happen.

I am just trying to figure out why Romney even wants to be president. What is in it for him, except even more money? Oh, wait.

Never mind that the FBI and other intelligence agencies do background checks on presidential candidates...That's one hell of a conspiracy by Obama and to keep everyone quiet about it for so long without at least 1 person spilling the beans, he's doing something right.

That's always the one thing with conspiracy theories that the theorists never want to discuss. Forget the FBI investigation, was the Obama family preparing for their kid to be president from the moment he was born? Were they lying to family and friends and brainwashing the 2 year old Barack that he had to tell everyone he was born in Hawaii all the way back in 1963? Assuming they didn't have that kind of foresight, where are all these people now?

And of course that's before you figure in the FBI and CIA and all the other background checks that would have been performed on him over the years as he's been a senator and got the highest level of security clearance physically possible and then actually become the damn president which is probably the most scrutinized position in the world. But forget all of that, WE HAVE A 95 YEAR OLD

It is THE greatest conspiracy in the history of the world. I mean, even the JFK assassination had people confessing they were involved in the conspiracy to kill JFK. The Obamas must have some kind of African voodoo they put on people that have kept everyone quiet for so long. Too bad they missed that 95 year old. Now it's going to all come crumbling down.

Like they say, never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

I'm going to go hunt down some chem trails now...

I'm sure its way beyond money for him. Its power, influence and history.

But to be fair, I think this is the same motivation for all presidential candidates.

Daddy issues? :)

(only half kidding)

I think at some point, people like Romney realize that they're known for nothing but money. They want to be know for something other than that. Political office offers them a platform to do that. How they use that position is ultimately up to them.

Not sure about the other 2 but Awlaki had fair warning. These relatives should have told him to come in and lets get it sorted out.

These relatives are in denial and wasting our time and money.

Good riddance.

BBC News - Military sued over al-Awlaki Yemen drone death

I think all mega-successful people are a little off in the head. Most of us would happily retire or at least wind down after achieving the wealth and success of Romney, Obama, or any other presidential candidate or successful person. They can't do it though, they're still driven to succeed and challenge themselves in different arenas. It's a characteristic that made them successful in the first place.

Obama seems to have locked up the Latino votes.

Obama's lead over Romney among Latinos widening - latimes.com

Apparently, Luke Skywalker thinks the Romney clan came from even further away than Mexico:

Mark Hamill on Mitt Romney: He Is 'Not Actually Human' (Video) - The Hollywood Reporter

I don't think you can leave his religion out of it. Having a Mormon President would be very important in the history of Mormonism.

This is actually a pretty good answer.. I just wonder if he really has it in his head/heart that he will be a good president and try to do everything he can to make the country better. It seems most of his life has been built around acquiring as much wealth as possible, not really doing anything for the betterment of the world.. But then there is Romneycare I guess, and I don't know a ton about how it has been received or what kind of results it has achieved, but what has he done other than gain enormous amounts of wealth by any means necessary?

Edit to add I guess Romney care didn't do too well considering Romney doesn't mention it at all.

He was the head guy for the 2002 US Olympicsm governer of MA and did Romney Care. I think those are pretty good credentials. Given other circumstances, I think he would stand behind Romney Care and the good he has done there.

He disavowed many of his accomplishments as governor because they are too far left of the GOP platform. That's why allowing Obama to set the narrative on his business career (with all of the Bain ads that are defining him) is becoming such a disaster for him. He has been running away from being governor of a blue state and is now running away from an immensely successful business career.

It is kind of amazing to me that the other GOP primary contenders didn't hit him in a similar way, as he has essentially been running for president for the past six years. If they had done their homework, you would think that they could have knocked him out.

Kind of hard to run behind RomneyCare when he's trying to campaign against ObamaCare. Sure he say that it's a good idea for the states to do but it shouldn't be done at the federal level, but I'm not sure that message will help him all that much.

But wouldn't you put this more on following really bad advice? John Kerry was a decorated war hero (thank god JiMGa is on suspension so I don't have to hear the GOP spin on this one) and followed advice to not fight it and was made out to be a liar and a pussy. Romney seems to be following the same path. I don't care for him and don't intend to vote for him but how he could be losing a pr battle against Obama's lack of accomplishments is beyond puzzling.

I think his problem is that he doesn't really stand for anything -- he just wants to be president. On paper, he seems great: Well-known/regarded family name, Harvard JD/MBA, good family man, governor of a well populated state, and successful business person. It's like he has worked his whole life to get to this point and doesn't know what to do with it.

I dunno -- maybe he has a strategy to keep things close and then pull out some sort of big guns when election day approaches. I think he is running out of time to make a positive impression on voters. Like you said, he is letting the Obama campaign turn his positives (business success) into negatives. I guess he let the GOP field do the same with his record as governor, but he had such a financial advantage that it didn't matter there.

It would be nice to have a three party system where Romney could stand as a centrist and the republican party could end up with a guy they can stomach getting behind and who could be honest about his beliefs. I think he'd be a candidate I'd vote for in a heartbeat if he was the MA governor version of Romney rather than a fake right wing Romney trying to be something I don't want to see in the WH.

This right here.

The problem is I'm not necessarily convinced that Massachusetts Romney is the real Mitt Romney. People assume that's the case and he modulated his views to win the GOP primary, but the opposite is just as likely to be true.

House backs military sports sponsorships

WE NEED NASCAR TO BRING IN ALL THOSE TROOPS!

I think that's true of any presidential candidate who gets far enough. It's a requirement. You have to align your opinions appropriately to get to the top of your party (even as they change over the decades for strategic reasons), and then in a somewhat different way to be a national contender. I see this first-hand even at the state level. If you're always going to do what you believe is right regardless of personal or career consequences, that's a prohibitive roadblock to significant political success. You can be respected, you can rise up and work in important appointment positions in government, but there will be a limit to how far you can get in either political party.

Edit: I mean, how many politicians really inspire you with their ethics and character and intellect and good deeds other positive qualities? Where on the other hand, if you're in a position to come into contact with them, there's a ton of judges, deputy attorney generals, fire chiefs, teachers, assorted administrators etc. who are over-the-top fantastic at what they do and deeply committed to public service and ethics - these people are inevitably not involved in politics and never will be. The best president would be someone who doesn't want to run for the job.

What are you suggesting is a better way forward here than maintaining our all-volunteer military?

He's a lousy politician. I remember watching Kennedy get to his right on crime in the 1994 Senate race. He was killing Kennedy early and just kept losing ground once the campaign got serious.

Sounds promising to me.

Don't they still have recruiters that borderline harass high school students?

Reminds me of Qadaffi's last days when he fled back to his home district. I'm not sure if its the lesser of 2 evils but think its overall good.

History in the making. Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Yemen and now Syria (?).

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news...-into-capital?

Or, or, or, MAYBE they could attract more people to our all-volunteer military by actually taking care of those who have already served.

The MA governor version of Romney sucked. Didn't have any successes aside from Romneycare (as an advocate of single-payer I wouldn't really classify Romneycare as a success), and spent most of his governership launching his unsuccessful bid for the nomination last time and flitting around on the state's plane to "try to bring business to MA" (we ended up 46th in the country in job creation while he was governor).

Oh Ann Romney. Poor Ann Romney. Please stop talking now.

“You know, you should really look at where Mitt has led his life, and where he’s been financially,” the potential first lady said on ABC’s “Good Morning America.” “He’s a very generous person. We give 10 percent of our income to our church every year. Do you think that is the kind of person who is trying to hide things, or do things? No. He is so good about it. Then, when he was governor of Massachusetts, didn’t take a salary for four years. We’ve given all you people need to know and understand about our financial situation and how we live our life,” she added later.”

Never mind that the Mormon Church requires tithing and that no criminal in the history of the universe has ever given to charity.


YOU PEOPLE.

I'm not going to begin to feel sorry for her from the perspective of their wealth, but I have little doubt that most people if they were in their shoes would feel equally as frustrated with the continued poking and prodding for information. I'm not saying that it's warranted or unwarranted, but much like the Obama birth certificate, I don't think enough will ever be enough.

Obviously I lean conservative on most fiscal things but I find it really off-putting that so many politicians who tell us we shouldn't be suspicious of their wealth act to make us more suspicious of their wealth. Either they're ashamed of their money or they have something bad to hide. It's not just Romney, a lot of others have declined to put the returns out there this week. It really cuts to the core of their claimed position on things.

Um...yeah that worked really well when we tried it with William Henry Harrison.

Except now, you need at least a billion to run. So better be damn sure you want the rigors (and benefits, sure) of the job.

There needs to be more references to William Henry Harrison in the political threads.

And yes, in my fantasy world the best president would be someone who doesn't want to run, and in fact, doesn't have the political influence to get that billion to run. if it was his own billion though and he or she was running as an independent, I believe he (or she) would be probably be a more sincere candidate that stood for something (or they could just be aiming for global domination).

We tried that experiment with Ross Perot. I do believe Ross was sincere, would have been a good experiment but, I think, ultimately a failure.

The Koch brothers are kind of doing it by their support of the Tea Party.

Wouldn't you have a weak leader then? If everyone knows that the candidates are reluctant to the position and have no financial backing from anyone, what good is it when they have to deal with issues? No one is going to respect a president that A) didn't want the job and B) has no support to get anything done

At least with the Repulicans and Democrats there is a driver to do things based on idealogy (I guess).

Sincerity is overrated, the last sincere president we probably had was Lincoln and that was during one of the most conflicted bloodiest periods of history in the US.

There are really great leaders all over American society and in non-political government positions. I don't think that quality is exclusive to successful politicians. I think it's actually probably a hindrance in rising through the ranks of a national party, if it's combined with standing for something and being ethical.

Perot really resonated with a lot of people for a while. People were on-board with the general concept. He just wasn't the right guy to pull it off.

He sucked all the fiscal conservatives off Bush but could not get the moderate liberals off Clinton.

There was that crazy admiral dude he had for his VP as well.

Yes, that guy scared me in the VP debates. It was pretty obvious he was not the right person to be a heartbeat away. Perot really should have done a better job there.

I think you want to vote for Utah Phillips.

He definitely took voters from both. When Perot dropped out the first time, it was Clinton that gained the most from it. He moved from 3rd to 1st. Perot stole fiscal conservatives from Bush, but he also stole change voters from Clinton.

Ross Perot, I get. The Koch brothers? Huh?

SI

Agreed.

Oh, Golden Age Simpsons:

"We are the mediocre presidents.
You won't find our faces on dollars or on cents!
There's Taylor, there's Tyler, there's Fillmore and there's Hayes.
There's William Henry Harrison, ``I died in thirty days!''
We... are... the... adequate, forgettable, occasionally regrettable
Caretaker presidents of the U-S-A!"

SI

Plurality Wins in the 1992 Presidential Race: Perot's Contribution to Clinton's Victory

Well, except it's never really been true. Exit polls had Perot siphoning evenly off of Bush and Clinton and even the most optimistic projection still has Clinton winning the Electoral College.

SI

Assuming Perot had won, he wouldn't have been able to get anything done. Neither the GOP or Dems would have had any reason to work with him.

That wouldn't have gone over very well with a populace that had just utterly rejected the 2-party system to elect a silly billionaire. That kind of congressional response would have just led to more change and maybe a splintering of the parties.

Koch brothers are the $ behind the Tea Party.

Romney Campaign Memo: The Koch Brothers Are The 'Financial Engine Of The Tea Party' | ThinkProgress

I get that part of it. I just don't get how the Koch brothers stood for anything except the aforementioned global domination

SI

I think global domination is the least of their priorities. I think they are more isolationists than anything else.

Tea Party movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or both parties would have said Perot is a failure you need to go back to someone who can work with congress to get things done. Some in congress would be afraid of not working with Perot,but nowhere close to a majority. Perot would either have to drift closer to one of the parties or end up a lame duck starting on inauguration day.

I get this from both candidates, or for any politician.

The only story I've heard of was students harassing recruiters. :)

Since my son just went through this, I will say that nobody ever approached him. He had to find them, but business is good when the economy sucks.

Please explain. :)

I think it's progress. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.

Obama is running against a guy whose religion teaches that God lives in a planet called Kolob.

A rag tag fugitive fleet...

FWIW......most people who are members of a religion don't follow or believe every teaching of that religion. I don't think he's going to make any budget or ethical decisions that will be in any way altered by his belief (or lack of belief) in the planet (or metaphor) known as Kolob.

There's plenty of very good reasons to like or dislike Romney. A teaching that even Mormons regularly disagree amongst themselves as to what it really means is way down that list of reasons.

This is a frequent criticism I hear of the Mormans and agree and laugh with people at it. I only wish people would see how silly the story of Jesus is as well and take Bush, Obama, etc to task. Only when an atheist runs for office will the "calling out" of ones religion become a legit argument IMO.

Jesus and his zombie army at the second coming, and the ritualistic eating of his flesh and blood every Sunday is silly as well.

Being a non-practicing Catholic (been quite some time now) and an agnostic, I just like poking fun at religion in general. :P

Imagine the fun if a Scientologist ran for office.

I agree. I just wish people could see how implausable Chrsitainity is through the same eyes they use to mock Islam and Scientology. But since by random chance most were born in a Christian country it makes perfect sense that Jesus is the answer while Tom Cruise and John Travolta are insane.

After explaining yourself though I see the point of view you are bringing and agree 100%.

Are the actual religions the annoying part or the belief people have in them and their insistance that their beliefs are better?

Just not a fan of organized religion. All of the good they do (and as an atheist I still believe they do a lot of good) could be accomplished without trying to provide answers through superhero/fairy tale type stories. I have no idea what the real "answers" are but using simple logic can say that if there are X religions with different Gods than at least X-1 of them are wrong. (Most likely all X are wrong)

Well I am fine with all religions doing what they do, even with proselytizing, but when they get involved with politics is where a lot of trouble gets started.

Mizzou_BB_Fan is a homer

"Life here, began....out there..."

Mitt Romney Avoided Major Tax Hit By Shifting Stock Of Offshoring Firm

Good stuff.

Heh. I just searched on Kolob. Lots of interesting info (and rebuttals).

The Planet Kolob | Top 10 Craziest Mormon Beliefs

We've not had a discussion on religion in a while! Someone start a thread?

They always end well!

SI

I really can't understand why both of these guys aren't polling at 30% or so. Obama hasn't done much for his base, or really much in terms of getting a plan to move the economy forward. On the flip side, people like Mitt Romney are a huge part of why the economy doesn't move forward. All Obama team has to do is just make a commercial showing all the companies Bain has helped send jobs overseas and how much stock/$$ Romney got for it. Over and over.

Kudos to McCain for doing whats right.

Michele Bachmann’s baseless attack on Huma Abedin - The Washington Post

Finally!!! :D


Pretty much one of two things pops into my head when mormonism is brought up.
1. The original Battlestar Galactica
2. What's crazier? scientology or mormonism?

Wow, just fucking wow.

It's Bachmann, absolute zero surprise by this. Something tells me she has a vibrator that she's named, Joe McCarthy.

I realize that rules are different for politicians, but wouldn't comments like this approach the level of libel/slander?

I think Abedin could probably pursue that avenue. But, I'm not totally sure though.

But it would just prove that secretly she's a terrorist!

SI

I foresee Abedin suing Bachmann for libel/slander leading Bachmann to complain about the unfair attacks being directed her way.