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That's espionage. Has little to nothing to do with any trade deal. Governments are going to spy on each other. Quote:
Why does everyone have to suffer so some large companies can make more money in other countries? How does it benefit a farmer to lose a ton of money so Apple can sell phones at a higher profit margin in China? Just don't understand why anyone here cares about giving some company a global monopoly. |
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Ehhh..the weapon purchasing plays a big role too. The administrations trip to Saudi Arabia was alongside a bunch of weapon manufacturer CEOs. Plus you can't count out the personal financial interests. They launder money to him through his hotels. They also invest in his son-in-laws businesses. I wouldn't put the friends in quotations marks. We've kind of bent over and let them do whatever they want to us. Their policies have been actively hurting us for awhile now. They clearly are the alpha in this relationship. |
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I'm not sure where the disconnect is. I'm thinking you think ... You - Trade Deal = goods Me - Trade Deal = goods + IP Sure governments spy on each other. It is also Chinese companies stealing US companies IP to close the gap in technology. These Chinese companies probably are doing it at the behest of the Chinese government. So it is espionage "through trade". See article below. There are numerous articles that pretty much say this trade deal is also about protecting IP. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/w...ed-states.html Quote:
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Your farmer may lose a ton of money so Apple can sell phones at a higher profit margin but plenty of other farmers are enjoying their iPhones and iPads. The Apple example is a non-starter for me, its not a global monopoly (well maybe for 2-4 years at the beginning) and its pretty clear Apple has done so much for the US and the world. Although not the first with the "smart phone" clearly the one that made it ubiquitous. |
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I wasn't thinking about only Trump. Clearly other past administrations have tolerated the relationship. Describing it as alpha is too strong for me but the point is taken. Influence/unity of OPEC has been declining and I eagerly await that inflection point with alternate fuels so we don't have to keep on buying drugs from that part of town. |
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That would be great if he actually knew what he was doing, had any kind of plan, or cared beyond enacting policy over Twitter. I know you don't support Trump per se, but you come across as treating him like someone who is competent that may just have a different agenda then the left and that just isn't true. |
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The poor and middle class are the people getting killed by the trade war with China. We're already seeing recession level bankruptcies from Midwestern farms. The poor and middle class will be the people most impacted by increasea in the cost of goods. Those same people are going to see little to no benefit to IP protection. |
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Members of Congress - Nunes? Who knows if anything more comes from this but it seems like one of those things that should be of incredible importance with serious consequences in normal times. |
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I'm agreeing that the trade deal is about protecting IP. I'm saying it doesn't matter to 99.99% of this population. Why do I give a shit if someone over in China makes a fake Gucci bag? And you're right that they steal at the behest of the government. That won't change with this deal. This is espionage and they aren't going to stop that offer a trade deal regardless of the IP protections. |
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I'm not saying Apple is a monopoly. I'm saying a patent is a government mandated monopoly on something. The government states that only the patent holder can profit off something. That's fine. But I don't understand why we have to suffer so that the whole world recognizes our patents. |
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Well if the member of Congress is a still active member it could mean the end of their career. But with Trump's administration, I guess it matters just what is revealed. His lawyer John Dowd, seems like he could be in trouble. My guess for who the member of Congress is would start with Nunes-he's already interfered with the investigation. My number two guess would be Rohrbacker-he already has known ties/friendly to Russia. He lost his re-election though, so not sure how much that would affect things, unless they subpoened him. |
It’s almost as if Trump wants to completely tank the American agriculture industry. Between his tariff wars and now this gestapo like aggression on SS numbers and immigrants I can’t see many handling this well. But they will still vote for him.
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So then the companies that are innovative enough to come up with things that need patents can recoup and profit from their investments and hopefully come up with more innovative things. Do you agree no/less patents means less incentive for companies to innovate? If you do, then what is the alternative? With that said, there is definitely excess and I don't like how pharmas can find a way to extend their patents beyond the original date. |
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We have patents in this country. Their IP is protected here (well if you are wealthy). What happens between those companies and other countries is between those parties. Not sure why you think everyone needs to be collateral damage for something that practically no one here benefits from. And no, I don't believe less patents means less innovation. I think it creates stagnation in the market and complacency. But our patent system isn't about encouraging innovation anymore. It's turned into a perverted system where patent trolls and big companies that buy up vague patents to strongarm smaller competition. Larger companies can and do just steal ideas from anyone who doesn't have a decade plus of time and millions of dollars to defend it in court. I don't have an issue with patents when done right. But this country doesn't do that. So how about we fix our own IP laws before forcing our pathetic ones on countries that have nothing to do with the average American. Like I said, why should someone lose his farm so Apple can make a few more sales overseas? |
Do people know our copyright protections are based around when Mickey Mouse is set to enter public domain? Whenever it gets close, they pay off a bunch of politicians to extend it.
Everyone who had something to do with the creation of Mickey Mouse has been dead for decades. |
Justin Amash of Michigan is the first Republican in Congress to call for impeachment of Donald Trump:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/18/polit...uct/index.html |
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Kinda counter intuitive for me so did some googling. The gist I get is patents does help innovation but that's not to say there can't be improvements. Re: Apple - someone loses his farm so Apple can continue innovating and making more iStuff. Additionally, new iStuff has created a bunch more jobs and wealth than those farmers ... so the net impact is positive for the country. It (probably) comes down to do you believe US should maintain/enhance its technological advantage even at the expense of less fortunate with the inevitable paradigm shifts. Quote:
Okay, I'll concede I don't give a flip about Gucci or Mickey Mouse. |
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Admirable but unfortunately won't go anywhere. But appreciate his principles. The Dems are going to have to win this at the polls and lets hope by a large margin so the repudiation is undeniable. (But still hoping for immigration reform + Wall, taking care of NK, and China before he is booted) |
Amash represents a district a short drive from me. I used to live in it. I wish I could vote for him - he's been principled his entire Congressional career from everything I've seen/heard. Not perfect, nobody is, but if he ever runs for Senate or Governor he's about the only person I know that would be an auto-vote from me.
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Except Apple stiffed Qualcomm when it came to paying royalties on their patent. Stole their technology and handed it to Intel. They were found in courts to have stolen the technology for iMessage, FaceTime, and other software on the phone. The company that sued and won was a patent troll who doesn't innovate or build anything. But they still owned the patent you want to protect. They were found to have stolen the technology behind iTunes. Again, by another patent troll that does not build or innovate anything. Samsung and Apple routinely steal ideas from each other and buy up vague patents for a neverending battle in court. In fact, almost the entire technological revolution is built around stolen technology. It's impossible for a little guy to fight the big ones in our system. It is set up for the biggest to be able to raid any ideas they want and sue upstart competition into oblivion. Apple isn't a victim. Their entire business was built around stolen IP. Forcing other countries to have to abide by our abomination of a system is just bad for |
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Huh. I read an article this morning that quoted another prominent republican as calling him a total lightweight and a loser. |
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Not sure of all the details but Apple has agreed to pay $4.5B to Qualcomm. This is hows patent law work right? When was the last time a non-Chinese company successfully sued a Chinese company for stealing its patent(s)? The argument that Apple doesn't innovate much is nonsensical to me. Let's just agree to disagree. |
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/19/b...p-kushner.html
A number of financial transactions made by trump and kushner flagged in Deutsche Bank systems used to detect patterns that could suggest money laundering. Analysts recommended reporting this to a federal financial crimes watchdog. Executives at the bank did nothing with this. It does seem like this may just be a pattern of shitty behavior by the bank to protect wealthy partners and not specifically favoritism towards trump. I guess this is our story of the week that would have been the biggest story for months under any other presidency? |
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Perhaps Trump isn't the best source? :D |
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They only paid because Qualcomm has a monopoly on 5G modems and Intel pulled out of the field. Otherwise they would have continued to stiff Qualcomm on royalties. Quote:
I don't know. Seems like an issue between China and the companies doing business in China. Don't see why citizens have to suffer while our government plays civil litigator for billion dollar companies. Quote:
What major innovations have they made? |
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It is funny that Democrats are the elitists. Here is taxpayers footing the bill for top shelf liquor party at Trump's country club. How Taxpayers Covered a $1,000 Liquor Bill for Trump Staffers (and More) at Trump’s Club — ProPublica |
So if you want some light reading, the House Intel Committee voted to release the deposition of Michael Cohen from late Feb and early March:
https://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/I...0520-SD002.pdf https://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/I...0520-SD002.pdf |
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I did not say the dems were elitists. I said elitists and dems. I agree that this is crazy thinking, but the supporters feel Trump is one of them. |
Its looking like a tipping point for impeachment may come tomorrow if Don McGahn does not show up tomorrow in response to a subpoena
Pelosi clashes with fellow Dems in closed-door debate on impeachment - POLITICO |
I'm not sure if I want impeachment or not, because you're going to get one of two outcomes:
1) Trump runs around screaming that he has been exonerated and lots of people will believe the BS. 2) President Pence. |
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1) All ready happening. Will not stop or change, and people already think he's is a saint. 2) Will not happen because the Senate will not confirm it. |
dola
It cracks me up that the official WH emails go straight to my spam folder without me every having suggested it. |
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#1 will happen regardless. #2 I'm good with Pence. I know some here are bothered by his religious beliefs but he's an traditional politician and after 2.5 years of Trump, I'm ready for some "normalcy". Doesn't matter to me if the impeachment isn't confirmed by the Senate. Go through the process out of principle. |
lol
The Freedom Caucus voted to condemn Amash, who co-founded the Freedom Caucus, for daring to speak out against Trump. |
heh
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Also, Amash is going to be primaried now by state rep. Jim Lower. Who represents me, and self-describes as being both pro-Trump and pro-family values (among other things), because of course he does. I also think it's hilarious - although not surprising - how Amash pointed out hypocrisy and poisonous partisanship in both parties, and how most of Congress hasn't read the Mueller report they are out there blabbing about … but nah, what's most important is he had the temerity to say he thinks Trump committed impeachable offenses and therefore we must burn him.
To which I say: Whitmer isn't off to a real good start. Justin Amash for Michigan governor in '22 please. Quote:
THIS. Don't set a precedent that all we'll do is talk a lot about how really bad you are but won't actually pursue the constitutional remedy. If Trump's a fraction as bad as this thread in general and the Democrats say he is (and he is), there is no other responsible action but impeachment. And if you don't start it like yesterday, you don't get there before the next election. Which is exactly why the feet-dragging is happening so the public can do their job for them … except that's not at all the same thing and believe me future presidents will argue 'look at what Trump did, and he wasn't even impeached.' |
I too want to see Trump go through the impeachment process, even if the GOP Senate won't follow through.
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Yeah I think the main reason the House flipped to the Dems, was so there would be some oversight on Trump's Presidency. If they fail to do that, you might as well just let Trump win re-election. |
It's a pretty simple political question with a not so apparent answer. What affects turn out the most in 2020? Trump being able to say he was completely exonerated by the US Senate and Muller and treated unfairly by the House, Fake News, Mueller, the courts, the losers and the haters and everyone else. Or Democrats being ticked that the House didn't proceed with impeachment and staying home.
I think that's the math the Dems are trying to do right now. The answer isn't clear to me. It's also why so many of the Presidential candidates are likely hedging, so they can blunt some of Trump's bragging. |
I think if the Dems don't move to impeach, many will stay home rather than vote-why should we bother if neither party is going to protect the Constitution at this point. I understand waiting for the Mueller Report coming out before the Dems took action of impeachment. But who knows now if we will ever see the full report or even hear Mueller talk about it.
If the Dems want their base to take them seriously in any future election, its time to lock up and fine those who resist the subpoena and begin impeachment hearings. If they do nothing, why should we vote for any of them. |
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Respectfully, I think that's the wrong question. I think they should make the determination based on the question, is there enough evidence to believe it is likely that the President has committed crimes? Chasing the best political decision is cynical and will likely backfire. Do what you think is right and let the chips fall where they may. |
Sure, that's what they should do. I don't think it is what they are doing.
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I agree. They're way too concerned about the political blowback. Nixon had an approval rating well over 60 when the Watergate hearings started. |
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THIS. Fuck politics and 2020. This is the right thing to do. |
Rumor has it that soybean farmers are going to get a $2.00/bushel welfare payment for 2019. The thing is, corn planting progress is not good right now in a lot of the main corn growing states. Soybean acres were naturally going to be down this year as market signals have been screaming not to plant soybeans. So those farmers may turn to soybeans, which can be planted later more successfully in order to cash in on the welfare payment. This will make the soybean oversupply problem even worse. As China appears to be digging in in terms of the trade deal, the best bet was to not plant acres that the weather has not allowed to be planted (and take the government subsidized insurance payment on that). At least in that scenario, the supply would at least come down. Next year, with a mountain of soybeans on hand and no trade deal likely, everybody and their brother will plant corn thus killing that price.
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We'll protect capitalism with Socialism, but Socialism is bad. |
I hope stance on impeachment is a big part of the Dem nomination race and debates. (at least for those holding national office now or holding influence).
I hope the candidates who have desired to protect Trump and ignore his crimes are fully exposed and have to account for essentially being collaborators in that criminal conspiracy. |
Article from October in Foreign Policy about China looking to influence the American electorate.
What better, Russia or China? |
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How many billions in welfare have they given away on this? |
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12 billion last year, 15 billion this year (if the numbers hold up). This is in addition to what they already get. |
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Trump held an "impromptu" press conference this morning to complain about the Dems. So impromptu that they had printed signs ready to go.
Everything's a con. |
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/22/polit...m_source=twCNN Flat out refused to make a deal until the Dems stop investigating. |
Yes, those dastardly Dems are just out to cause trouble for the good, law abiding citizens of Mayberry. We know our leaders, we don't need some 2-bit, cheating, commie, ass-grabbers to tell US if our leader is a crook! He's not! Because we said so! And we know way better than you do! All you can do is impeach, you're not allowed to investigate whether or not he's committed any crimes during or before his presidency. That's not right and not your job! We love him with all our hearts and no pinko-liberal is gonna steal him away from us. IT'S A COUP!
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You mean the signs that showed the cost of the Mueller investigation were roughly 1/3 of what he has spent on golf trips since taking office? |
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It actually didn't cost anything since they recouped the cost from Manafort. |
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But that doesn't fit the agenda now does it? :) |
Remember back when they tried to convince us that Republicans would be OK with putting Harriet Tubman on the $20 because she stood for freedom and self-determination, and individuality and those were all conservative virtues? And that saying that they would oppose it was really just unfairly assuming that they were motivated by racism and misogyny?
I'm so naive, I actually believed them. But I'm learning. It's a slow process because I am a trusting person who wants to believe the best of others. But I also have two working ears, and if you tell me who you are often enough, I'll eventually start to believe you. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/22/harr...g-in-2020.html |
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And in delaying it until 2028, Trump will not have to talk about a black woman. And giving President Obama the middle finger again. |
Julian Assange charged with 17 additional counts if he ever gets extradited to the US:
WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange Is Facing 17 More Criminal Charges In The United States |
Man, give me that design gig where you can say "nope, it's not quite ready....gonna need maybe 8 more years"
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Today...
Trump and Giuliani posted video of Pelosi doctored to make her look drunk. AG Barr was given discretion to declassify anything he wants in the effort to discredit Comey and Mueller. Trump listed off several names when asked who he thought was potentially guilty of treason, a death penalty crime. |
So just another day in other words?
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Don't let outrage fatigue numb you to all that is outrageous. |
Anybody remember when a sitting president clapping himself on the shoulder over foreign dictator agreing with him would lead to panicky damage controll by the press secretary ? Hope you get back to that order eventually ...
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con don > R's > Murderous anti-freedom dictators > everyone else > D's
The current state of US politics and foreign policy. |
How the anti-vaccine movement crept into the GOP mainstream
Game: Think of a stupid and harmful and scientifically-uninformed take that isn’t also an essential plank of the GOP’s platform. (Hint: it’s impossible) |
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When you've created a party that preys on fear and pushes conspiracy to the mainstream you eventually start to look attractive to everyone on the fringes of society. |
I know we joke that "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme on occasion", but this is a straight re-release.
This is a selection from a thesis paper called "The Forgotten Treason : The plot to overthrow FDR", detailing an attempt by millionaires to overthrow a President, that failed because the General they had chosen to be their military person in the putsch went to congress. Quote:
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Please. The dems prey on fear. So stop. I wish more would be unvaccinated. Weed out the weak. Darwin wins. |
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Republicans are the party of Infowars. Literally built around fear-mongering conspiracy theories. |
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Isn't the Business Plot mostly the embellishment of Butler? It sounds like people had talked about it but they had no real organization or plausible plan to make it work. |
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Science says otherwise 403 Forbidden |
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https://www.donaldjtrump.com/landing...didates-survey |
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Conservatives don't believe in science. |
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Not really, the congressional committee that investigated it came to the conclusion that: “there is no question that these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient.” |
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Excellent. We'll start with your grandkids. No vaccinations for them! |
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Nah. my kids are smart and not weak. That was a snarky remark from the Bill Burr special I watched on netflix. Really funny special. |
Vaccinations don't guarantee immunity. And there is a gap between birth and when you are old enought to get vaccinated. Measles vaccine isn't given till you are a year old.
Herd immunity matters. Darwinism will kill those people, but they will also take some vaccinated people with them. |
Breast milk provides babies with many antibodies and boosts to a child’s immune system. What would be interesting is how many of the antibodies from vaccinated diseases are gained by the baby.
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Looked in vain for a long-ago thread on liberty and libertarian prospects... alas, I'll just post it here.
Justin Amash Makes the Case - The Bulwark This is a pretty interesting little subplot to watch. |
Reaction to the Mueller public statement?
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He's every college professor when the class hasn't done the damn reading. I half-expected him to say, "It's in the syllabus" at some point. |
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I've only read coverage of it but it seems like Mueller doesn't want to come out and directly contradict Barr so he stressed reading what's in the actual report. He also admitted Trump likely committed obstruction, but the ball is in Congress' court to make that final determination. So we have a corrupt attorney general and a President that should be impeached. Or just another day in the Trump administration. |
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Amash and I are very far apart, but even before this I respected the fact that he has principles. He's what Rand Paul pretends to be. |
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Exactly, and nothing will be done. Anyone with eyes and ears know Barr was put in place to shield Trump. His followers just don't care. They are as morally bankrupt as he is. |
Does anyone more knowledgeable than I have more insight into the concept that a sitting president cannot be charged with a crime, even in a sealed indictment not to take effect until that president leaves office? A justice department with appointments by the president says that it can’t be done, so the investigation into the president that clearly finds huge levels of obstruction doesn’t do it... is this above board or part of our checks and balances failing us in a critical way?
I honestly don’t know, some of y’all are way smarter than me and I’m curious on thoughts. The fact that the house considers impeachment a political and re-election game instead of doing their duty to hold up the ideals of the nation is extremely disheartening. I would love to see any democrat who publicly comes out against impeachment primaried. |
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It is based off a memo by Nixon's DOJ in 1973. There is nothing in the constitution about it and it has never been answered by the Supreme Court. |
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Netenyahu was unable to find the last member to form a government, so Israel is headed to new election.
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Mueller's commentary today didn't really change anything to the arguments on either side. I think Mueller clearly denoted today that again, had they intended to clear the president of wrongdoing they would. They didn't. That's still the big takeaway for me. Of course, the WH doesn't see that as the takeaway. For them, it's just another day at the office and because Barr got the final say, they can say whatever they want.
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You have to admit the story is funny coming from the crowd that cried about people not standing for the anthem. |
Or Obama saluting a soldier with a coffee in his hand.
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I think the writers of the Constitution assumed that anybody guilty of a serious crime would be impeached. The top law enforcement officer going through a trial would be incongruous and rather self-evidently IMO you can't treat the President as a normal defendant and still have them do their duties as President. I would fail to see the point in a sealed indictment that doesn't take effect until they leave - why not just indict them after they leave? But yeah I basically think there's quite good reasons based on what the Presidents constitutional duties are that impeachment is the proper and lone remedy while they remain in office. As has been mentioned its been a long-standing opinion so its not like its a partisan thing that Trump just came up with or told Barr to say or whatever. |
Is the idea that it's entirely the "other team's" responsibility to impeach a shitty president another recent example of modern bi-partisanship, or has it always been the unspoken rule?
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I think a lot of it depends upon their prospect of remaining in power. If there is an heir apparent, I think they would be quick to bail. I do not understand why so many Republicans are married to Trump because he is not a dyed in the wool Republican.
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I can probably help you with that a little bit. He's one of the few people aligned with the party to show any sign of actual balls in a long time. Don't underestimate the value of visible backbone, even to people who are lacking in that department. And most figure that he's too stubborn to give too many inches to the other side (note: that's not a point I'm entirely sold on personally but for many Rs the notion of him selling out to the Ds is beyond imagination) Now to actually help your understanding of the issue quoted, we might eventually have to parse the difference between "Conservatives" and "Republicans" but I don't believe I'm steering you wrong as a first step regardless. |
Yay more taxes.
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That's kinda what cocks my head a bit too. Though, I get the feeling that when the primaries start up we'll be hearing a lot of people on both sides attempting to re-write history regarding how often/effectively they challenged Trump. |
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