That's too bad, it was certainly a unique design. Are they going to try to develop anything else on the waterfront? It seemed like it could use a little more when I was down there, but I suppose I'm about the polar opposite of the people there.

I was sad about the new stadium being canned as well. It seemed like it wouldn't have costed St. Pete all that much money (at least according to the flyer they gave us when I went to Tropicana to see the Rays). Would have been the most beautiful stadium in the majors and would have attracted far more fans than the Trop (which, inside, isn't really all that bad, but an eyesore from the outside).

Tampa Bay has the best record in baseball right now. This, to me, is an unbelievable story.

It would be unbelievable if it was in MLB2K8!!! And all 5 starters have 10 wins this season as well.

The other fun story is that the Houston Astros, who are 14 games back of the NL leading Cubbies, and the Toronto Blue Jays who are 14.5 back of the Rays, would both be in 1st place in the NL West ahead of the D-Backs.

I meant to check back on this later in the year, so here we go...

STARTER--2007 ERA--2008 ERA
Guthrie--3.70--3.57
Cabrera--5.55--5.40
Burres--5.95--6.08
Olson--7.79--6.53
Liz--6.93--7.91

Looks like the Orioles staff regressed quite a bit since earlier in the season.

Mets are playing some fine ball right now. Solid sweep of the Brewers in Milwaukee.

Don't jinx it!!! :mad:

Don't worry, I didn't say anything in the 2007 thread and look what happened.

I went to my first Sox game of the year on Monday against the O's. Olson was pitching, and he was horrible. His line ended up being good 6ip 3er or so, but he walked the bases loaded in the first and had about 8 hard hit balls right at OF'ers in addition to the multiple solo HR's.

Another thing I noticed... being 20 games out, both Markakis and Adam Jones have slowed down and let catchable balls drop (Markakis an Ortiz ground rule double and Jones Kotsay's tying triple yesterday.) Maybe they were just unfamiliar with the walls, but it certainly looked like the were avoiding injury, which can't help the pitchers. In Jones defense, he hit an absolute rocket in the first that might have cleared the parking garage.

Finally, the Dustin Pedroia laser show continues. .618 over his last 10 games, .400+ over the last 2 months.

Did I hear that only 600 or so people showed up for a Marlins game?

Mid day, 96 degrees and humid. I'd question the sanity of the 600 that did show up.

Wow. That's nuts :(

SI

And they weren't even playing Kansas City :).

To be fair, KC had a similar crowd today but that's because the first game was part of a day/night doubleheader from last night's rainout:

"The remnants of Hurricane Gustav washed out Wednesday’s game, leading to Oakland’s first doubleheader since being swept in Kansas City on Aug. 18, 2006.

Not many people made it to the first game.

A 4:10 p.m. start, continued cool weather and two teams a combined 33 games under .500 made for a crowd better suited for a rec league softball game, with a few hundred fans scattered around 38,030-seat Kauffman Stadium for the first pitch."


SI

Damnit Radii.

Soriano just hit his 3rd bomb of the night, a 3 run shot to put the Cubs up five and on the brink of breaking their losing skid.

Wagner done for this year and next.

Mets need to find a FA closer and probably overpay

They're gonna bring in K-Rod, and it's not going to be pretty.

Tim Lincecum tonight - just wow. Was at the game, and really, he's the only thing going for us right now. What a great, great pitcher.

It is amazing to think that the Cy Young winners from both leagues may come from teams that finish below .500.

:eek:

This is insane:

ESPN - Pujols considering having torn elbow ligament fixed - MLB

All the while, he is batting .359/.466/.649 (leading the league in all three) with an OPS+ of 191.

Imagine if he was actually healthy :eek:

Wasn't he traded for Alex Rios in the offseason? :D

The OBP says "clogs the bases" to me.

GO BACK TO CANADA HIPPIE!

Jays win game one of their double header today, pushing their winning streak to 9 and their record since Cito took over to 42-27 (would translate to a 98 or 99 win season over the course of a full season given his current clip or 87 at this point of the season which'd have them in 1st in the AL East and tied for the best winning % in baseball).

Not bad considering they were 35-39 when he came in and he hasn't had Aaron Hill (or even Wells for quite a period of time).

They've still got 6 with Boston but will pretty much have to win at least 5 of those to have any shot at the post season. Even if they lose AJ in the offseason (highly likely), if they make a couple good tweaks to the lineup, I really like their chances next year.

Absolutely brutal managing job by Francona late in the game tonight. I'll leave out the decision to pitch Papelbon on Sunday in a 7-1 game so he was pitching a 3rd consecutive night for now and stick to what transpired in the bottom of the 9th, down 1 with Percival on the mound.

-Kotsay walks. Great, but then he leaves Ellsbury (leading the AL in steals, 90%+ success rate) on the bench.
-Jason Varitek (batting .210/.302/.342 from the left side) comes up with Ortiz on deck and they proceed to try and bunt Kotsay to 2nd, which almost certainly would have resulted in Ortiz being intentionally walked and 1st/2nd 1 out with Coco Crisp coming up. Needless to say, Varitek whiffs on his bunt attempts (at least one which would have hit him) and looks at strike 3 when he stops.
-Ortiz bats, ends up hitting a fly ball to right that probably would have scored a runner from 3rd.
-2 outs now, Francona pinch runs Ellsbury for Kotsay. Ellsbury promptly steals 2nd and advances to 3rd on a throwing error. Of course, the batter is still Coco Crisp, who pops out to end the game.

I take back some of my mockery of Dusty Baker. It was painful enough to watch that once, it must be terrible to see your manager do it multiple times a month. Not pinch-hitting for veterans, trying to have power hitters sacrifice bunt, waiting until 2 outs to send a pinch-runner in. Ugh.

That's not quite Dusty. Dusty would have taken out Ortiz for a better fielder as well. (Yes I know Ortiz is DH, but you get the point.)

dola

For the love of God. Dusty had Brandon Phillips bunt with men on first and third and one out in the eleventh inning. BR broke his finger and is out for the rest of the season.

awesome

Dukes flips out because Pelfry thew inside on him then the next at bat Pelfry hits him.

Friday's headline: "Mets Pitcher Slain in Drive-By Shooting".

I am really starting to hate Heilman

Since no one's noticed, FYI, the Angels clinched the AL West today.

I have to say...even though we suck, I'm having a lot of fun watching the Giants this season.

I just finished watching a 2 1/2 hour movie on DVR and turn it off just to see a 3 run homer by Pena in the 14th in the Rays/Red Sox game.

SI

The Rays have definitely won interestingly in this series against the Red Sox.

Man, i was trying so hard to follow the pirates this year. They quit sometime last month, however. Even though they've won 60 games with about 15 left, it would not shock me to see them lose 100 for the season.

Brandon Moss has looked decent for stretches, but the rest of the guys they got in the Bay trade have been shit. I know its a smallish sample size, but after 250+ big league at bats, Andy Laroche has a .192/.305/.302 profile. That's not exactly confidence inspiring. Plus he'd make between 30 and 40 errors if he continued at the current rate.

The jury's still out on the yankee pitchers they got for Nady. Karstens seems to be nothing special. Ohlendorf might be a solid starter next year.

Word. I don't know if it's because our expectations were bred to be a 100+ loss season, but I've had fun watching this team most every night. Lincecum's absolute scariness, Zito's absolute scariness, the call-ups going through their ups and downs. All in all, I haven't been disgusted, which is what I was expecting.

I also think the ascent of the Giants farm system from bottom five to top five has put a salve on the wounds.

And you'll have a Cy Young winner this year :D.

I know. I was thinking about this over the weekend. :( Sorry.

And that's why you haven't seen me in this thread in a while...

Mind-boggling decisions the past two nights, all after it had appeared Francona was a decent manager.

To start with tonight, we have Coco Crisp being used as a PR at 1st in the 7th with 2 out, Ellsbury (not a whole lot of power) batting, and then don't have Crisp try to steal 2nd. Since Crisp has already been used, Tito decides to pinch run for Mike Lowell with Alex Cora in the 9th, who isn't any faster (for reference, Cora has stolen 33 bases in an 11 year career, 2 the last 2 seasons combined. Mike Lowell has stolen 28 in 11 seasons, and 5 in the last 2.) Bottom 12, man on 1st 0 outs, he has David Ortiz try and bunt. Technically, he does get credited with a sacrifice advancing the runner to 2nd, leading to the Rays immediately walking Kevin Youkilis. Jason Bay strikes out swinging on low slider after low slider and 1/2 the bane of my Red Sox fandom, Alex Cora, comes up in Mike Lowell's spot to end the inning. Top 14, the second 1/2 of that existence, Mike Timlin appears. Half the bar clears out and he gives up 3 runs. Bottom 14, we do load the bases and get a sac fly from Youk, but then Bay strikes out swinging on low slider after low slider and Alex Cora comes up again to end the game.

Joe Maddon (TB Manager) did pull some shameful shit there, faking an injury to Percival to buy time for reliever #2 after he loaded the bases, but not as shameful as leaving Sean Casey (and possibly JD Drew, because he was activated, although possibly still injured) on the bench while Alex Cora ends the inning twice, or misusing pinch runners for the 2nd straight night, or risk injury by having David Ortiz bunt, or by Theo Epstein not having Van Every (as an extra bat/OF'er) Joe Thurston or Argenis Diaz (both speedy middle infielders on the 40-man) sitting on the bench in case these situations came up.



Unrelated question for stevew - Could Jason Bay hit, or at least lay off, a decent breaking ball in Pittsburgh? Unless last night was an unfortunate aberration (like 12 pitches in a row) it appears TB (and anyone else that cares) has a blueprint against him now with breaking balls low and away. I'm so glad Manny and his .396/.488/.776 line isn't ruining our chemistry.

Dola, not to mention, both Bottom 10th for the Sox and top 13 for the Rays, the one time you should bunt a guy over happened - runners on 1st/2nd, 0 outs. Both times the batter ground into a double play.

To be fair, it seems everyone falls over backwards saying how great Scioscia is, and as an Angels fan, I by and large agree with them--but he still occasionally does some mind-bogglingly stupid things, too.

I think even the best managers have their bad moments. Francona's pretty much earned his stripes by this point.

BTW, maybe I am biased because Maddon is a long time Angels bench coach, but I see the fake the injury thing as pure gamesmanship. You see that stuff all the time in baseball. No biggie to me.

Yeah, I'm with CR. It's like hiding sandpaper in your glove or something. It's part of the game.

I really haven't followed them much before this year. And I really only listened to the games on the radio this season.

0-7 aside, he's hit about what you would expect him to. Solid .880ish OPS guy. I'd think he'll hit a few more homers in boston since the right field is obviously much more of a hitters thing than PNC is.

The Angels need to work on this save situation thing. You see, if they score too many runs, K-Rod can't get a save. Unless we bring him in the seventh. Maybe we'll do that.

Fair enough on Maddon. The only thing that set it apart was he already had 2 relievers warming before the inning even started. At least try to hide it a little.

Francona's always (at least in Boston) had the rep as a great players manager and good to have over a full year because he looks at it as a marathon, not a sprint. He's never been looked at as a great in-game manager, and it was just a succession of detrimental moves in the 2 most important games for determining whether we face CWS/MIN (easy) or Anaheim (which I really don't want to do) that prompted me to vent.

I should have had more faith. The pen let the M's back in the game, or at least enough for K-Rod to get his save opportunity.

Thigpen and K-Rod are now tied atop MLB's lists for the single season save record.

Meh - its maybe his 3rd best season. The Save stat is up there with RBI in terms of distorting performance from actual value.

Yeah, I know. But most people still look at it as a worthwhile accomplishment, so kudos to K-Rod.

Well, the goal going into '08 was a Winning Season for the first time in a while.... Now sitting at 66-80, can the RedLegs somehow win their final 16 and achieve the basic goal that Dusty laid out before the season began?

66-80 right now?? WTF!!

I know some won't give the record it's just due, but congrats to Frankie Rodriguez on passing Bobby Thigpen for the single season saves record.

Indeed, congrats to him. I wonder where it would rank on greatest season for a closer?

Great year - but I think it's a shame that teams STILL limit pitchers of this caliber to 60 innings a year. And a lot of those innings come when the team is winning by 2-3 runs, and almost ALL of those innings come with nobody on base when he comes in. It's a total waste of his talent. He's going to get MVP votes, which is a joke.

The closer role is stupid. It drives me crazy.

When a manager puts his best relief pitcher into a tie game in the 7th inning I think that someone's finally figured it out. But it's always an anomaly.

Hey CR, my knowledge of K-Rod is basically his stats and your rants on him at different times during the season. With Wagner out next year, it's expected the Mets will make a run at him. Should I be nervous?

Yes and no. I'll start with the yes.

K-Rod has a very good (but not great fastball), a wicked forkball/slider that is his out pitch and one of the best of its kind in the league, and a change and curve he occasionally uses, but not nearly as mucha s the first two.

When he is throwing his heater with control and confidence, he is virtually unhittable a la World Series 2002. Hitters are torn between whether to expect the fastball or try to be prepared for that slider that's in the back of their mind. I can't tell you how often K-Rod seems to groove a fastball right down the pipe, easy as pie, and the hitter is frozen, can't swing, because he bet on the slider that pitch. He just stares at the ball hopelessly as it flies by.

Why is this a bad thing? Because K-Rod doesn't always have pinpoint control of his fastball, and he doesn't have enough heat or movement (about 95 mph) on it to make major league hitters miss all the time. When hitters see they don't have to worry about the fastball, they lay off the slider--which is almost always a ball and in the dirt. It's an intense pitch and hitters love to take a hack at it, and they almost always miss. Its late bite is incredible. But if you know the slider won't be a strike, and K-Rod's fastball is off, you can basically wait for your pitch or take the walk.

Also, K-Rod just always seems to put one or two guys on. Seeing him shut the door so often in the end, it just seems like he does it on purpose. Silly, I know, but if you watch him every day, you get the sense that he isn't always focused until the pressure is on. So the result is a cardiac situation every time he pitches (or so it seems). 1-2-3 innings are extremely rare.

He will also probably only sign for $13-15 M per year, because he thinks he's as good as Mariano (and that's what his agent is telling him), and he won't sign for less than 4-5 years. That's a ton of money to devote to a closer pitching limited innings (which is the primary reason the Angels will probably look elsewhere).

Also, a lot of people think his wild delivery will lead to longterm arm problems. Hasn't happened yet, but then, he's only 26. But he already has a lot of innings on that arm, for a reliever anyway.

Now, the reason not to be nervous. Start with the obvious. He gets the job done. Whether you like how he does it or not, it can't be argued that he shuts the door. He just does. I have already talked about hsi quality pitches. That's for real; he has that.

Next, he has pitched in all sorts of relief situations, and in high, high pressure spots like playoffs and World Series, and he has come through with flying colors. He thrives on pressure and crowds and noise, feeds off of it.

He's a very emotional guy, but the sort that grabs that emotion and focuses it into an angry determination that helps him on the mound.

His emotion will play well in New York. The fans will love him for it. Opponents will hate it, and his finger pointing to the sky and his displays of emotion when he fist pumps with a yell after getting a strikeout. New Yorkers are used to Joba, though, so this would be no biggie to them.

He is popular in the clubhouse, both among Hispanic and non-Hispanic players, and speaks English very well, almost unaccented, despite being from Venezuela. He WILL talk. That will play well in New York, too, and the papers will love it, but he'll probably say something mildly stupid or controversial at some point that people will comment on. He'll shrug and go on.

If that's your only real hole and you have $15 M in your budget to burn, there are few better ways to spend that money, IMO. But few teams are in the situation, and it's definitely an overpay. But so long as he's healthy and you have some Tums always available for his cardiac relief spots, he'll get the job done for you.

That was a healthy write-up. Thanks. A lot of my fellow Mets fans don't seem to understand that he has a downside, and I probably wouldn't either if not for threads like these.

We have a couple potential closers in the system, but none that will be ready for next year unfortunately. If they don't grab K-Rod, it will probably be the length of the deal that's the issue, for the reasons you stated.

The Mets need to overpay for KRod and I am optimistic they will.

You mean because Luis Ayala, with the team up 4-2 in the 9th, just gave up a 3-run PH HR to some stiff?

Anyone watching the Cubs?

I'm saying nothing!! Its not on TV here, I hope they break into the ESPN game to show the bottom of the 9th :(

I don't know what you guys are talking about. La dee da dee da.

No, because they don't have a real closer (Ayala was never the answer regardless of what he did today) and they do have money to burn

I thought my question was innocuous enough :)

If I recall correctly, Z has had a couple of close calls in the past. Great to see him get the no-no.

:D

Grats to Zambrano, that is so great to see.

Man that was exciting. The first no-hitter I have ever watched. I was shaking.

How much of it did you guys see? I turned over to it in bottom of 5th, first batter I saw was the HBP. So I got to take in about 1/2 of it.

Barkeep went up to the game tonight - can't wait to talk to him about it.

I've been watching the entire game, flipping between the game and the replay of Fringe.

My buddy was in the left field bleachers too, what an experience that must have been.

Only the bottom of the 9th. It wasn't on here. :(

Rats, I thought everyone was talking about the Phils 4 game sweep of the Brewers.... ;)

I knew I never should have stuck my fucking head into this thread the other day... :mad:

Just announced during the Cubs game that the Brewers fired Yost. WTF? I mean ok if they don't make the playoffs by all means do it if you feel it should be done. But when you're tied for the wild card and could do some damage if you could somehow sweep the Cubs in the upcoming series. As a Cub fan and an outsider I don't get it.

Well, there is the little matter of back-to-back September collapses by the Brew crew last year and this year. Couple that with the jolt a couple of teams seem to have gotten with new managers (Blue Jays and Mets) and I'm guessing they are looking for something/anything to help them get into the postseason this year.

It has been something like 25 years since their last appearance. They aren't going to have CC next year and I think Sheets is a (restricted?) FA as well. If it isn't this year for Milwaukee, then when is it going to be?

That's the best argument I can come up with for axing him today, instead of after the season. Not sure I buy it, but maybe some Brewers fans can chime in with info on Yost + clubhouse that suggest why this had to happen.

Go Cito Gaston.

Rays have not "choke" away the AL East yet.

The big man strikes again!!! :D

He's got a chance at 50.

I hope they ship you to India for good ;)

Huge win for the Rays tonight!

:D

I think some teams have actually figured this out. Detroit had Todd Jones as their "closer" when he clearly wasn't their best reliever and TB seems to be doing much the same thing with Percival. I still haven't seen anyone do it with a K-Rod or Papelbon, but it seems some managers intentionally don't name their best reliever the closer.

Considering how inflated power numbers are these days, there's a good chance the AL home run champ has under 40 this year and it's possible Ryan Howard is the only one in either league over 40.

SI

Bochy is the new Dusty. Look at the pitcher stress numbers from Baseball Prospectus. Sabathia is #2 at 29 and Lincecum is #1 at 51!

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/st...php?cid=204015

For a young pitcher, who has been referred to as "The Franchise", that's unconscionable.

And that stat tells us what exactly?

Yeah, don't get me started. I want that oversized cranium the hell out of SF/

It's a measure of stressful starts a through pitch counts. The real shock is the gap between #1 and #2.

Again, that stat tells us what?

It's a measure of how some people either don't want to read or pay attention to what's been written.

It's a meaningless stat, it means nothing in the bottom line of things.

Reveal yourself Dusty Baker!

Particularly an injury prone one with a build that isn't ideal for a pitcher.

SI

High pitch counts, pitching on short rest (and increases in workload) are linked to injury, particularly in young pitchers. CC Sabathia for example, is 29, in the middle of a pennant race and will not be on the Brewers next season.

Tim Lincecum is a 24y/o pitcher, future ace of the franchise, throwing 138 pitches in meaningless September games for a team mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. He has never thrown more than like 160 innings in a season, and he's at 221 now. Possibly in a futile effort to win him a Cy Young or keep fans coming to the ballpark. (Matt Cain is also top 5 in PAP.)

Maybe his space-age delivery keeps him injury-free, but past examples like Mark Prior and Kerry Wood suggest it's unconscionable to be risking such a valuable long-term asset for absolutely no gain this month. Aaron Harang is another example

The one defense of the Giants is that he's shown nothing (other than being short) to indicate he's particularly injury-prone.

Shit, if I paid that much in trade for CC, I'd definitely be pitching him till his arm fell off.

Anyways, they need a fan abuse pitcher stress metric. One can only take so much of Ian Snell.

And while I'm at it, is it safe to say that John Van Benschoten is one of the worst pitchers in major league history yet?

90 IP, 2.14 Whip, 9.20 ERA

For some reason BP adapting hurricane rating terminology to pitch counts amused me.

Nice K/BB ratio for Benschoten there. They don't have anyone better than that somewhere in the organization?

If you look at his career earnings, it looks like he's been playing for free in 2007 and 2008. :p

John Van Benschoten went to my HS!

He should have never been a pitcher to begin with. Especially after he tore his labrum and rotator cuff in '04, but by that time the Pirates probably thought major arm surgery was typical for young pitchers.

I have the stub from the game that the Rays clinched their first ever playoff appearance!!!!!!!