At the time of the election I would have agreed, there was a lot of weird shit happening. At this point after all the racism, hatred, bigotry, misogyny, lying, if you still support trump you are a piece of shit human being. The end.

dola, that said, it doesn't matter. Its all about turnout on the left imo in 2020. Nothing can be done about that base, its not going anywhere. Just gotta get people to actually believe this shit matters. Well, if you live in a state where it actually matters, since of most of us, it actually doesn't. That's fun.

I live in the heart of Trump country. Billboards on I44 with pro Trump messages. Smart people who think he is doing a great job.

I do not trust polls. The same polls had HRC winning easily.

I dont think the mid terms re a point of emphasis either. That wasnt a big deal. Watch when the next presidential elections happen. The supporters will be out again.

To your point Radii about the racism, misogyny, etc. The supporters do not see it that way. There is a strong nationalistic sentiment in the middle of the country. They see it as taking back their country. Dems dont like it. But it is what it is. You say racism they say race card. You say misogyny, they say a womens place is in the kitchen.
1950s attitudes are nothing to be ashamed of. Are they out dated? Maybe. Was the country in better shape in the 1950s? Yes it was.

I see the same attitudes from you guys that I saw leading up to the 2016 election. You guys were wrong then and you are wrong now. Better get a grip on the reality and do something. Not throw up some establishment white guy that Trump will abuse and use to get that electoral college win.

Find another Obama type. One that speaks to the masses and not just the left end of your party.

This is some insane shit.

Its reality. Call it what you want. But Trump speaks to it. And guess who is President?

Your victimhood is just that. You arent getting your golden ticket. And getting that golden ticket pissed off all those who felt like they were paying for it.

Guess who Trump speaks too? Guess who elected him President?

You live in a fantasy world. Im just trying to point out the reality of the situation. You dont have to like it, but you better recognize it and stop playing the victim card and figure out how to beat the man.

Exactly, you live where he's running up the score. He's not doing so hot in swing states.


This has been addressed countless times on here. The best polls ended up within the margin of error. 538 was repeatedly warning people that Trump had a legit shot at winning.

Somehow the myth that polling was way off for 2016 hasn't died.


So the highest mid-term turnout in a century wasn't a point of emphasis? Are waiting for Trump supporters to "flip the switch" and start playing for real in 2020?

At best, the country in 1950 was only better for white men. I'll leave it to others to figure out what that might mean.

Look, you can bitch and moan about Trump all you want. You can throw out all sorts of facts,

But the real fact is that Trump is President. And with the attitude you guys have on this board, he will be again. What you guys are talking about is just what fires up his supporters that won him the election.

Change the message. You have to change the message.

Wow.

Evangelicals believe they're more oppressed than minorities. Your President feels investigating his crimes is treason. The right in general has decided anything they don't agree with is fake news. White men feel they're losing their place of power in the country. Saying Happy Holidays equates to a war on Christmas.

Tell me again who's playing the victim card?

Exactly.

This is exactly what I meant, And the white women loved it too. They got to stay at home and do that job.

Im not sugar coating this. It is what it is.

But understand, that there a lot of minorities that support Trump as well.

Regardless of how the dems feel, playing the victim is not going to win in 2020.

What. The. Fuck.

Small portion of the supporters.

Im stating what is happening with his supporters. You dont have to like it. And I know you dont. But you have to understand the reality of this country right now.

I think there needs to be a tour of the country by some of you guys. I feel like you are sheltered in your little liberal corners with like minded people that dont see the reality of this country.

This reminds me of the time Iowa football coach called women "Little dumplins". Oh how the liberals howled. But the majority of the women of the state wore the title with pride.

This may get me boxed, but you are a fucking idiot. I mean, a colossal fucking moron. If you got a lobotomy it would be an improvement. Your statement is beyond insulting. My wife is an executive for a Warren Buffet company. She has battled attitudes like yours her whole life and has won. To say she belongs in the kitchen is not only an insult to her, but all women who have worked hard to shatter the glass ceiling. You are a tiny man, with a tiny intellect, who is easily threatened by concepts that make you feel like you are losing a little bit of power. Deal with it, you live in this world now you stupid, fucking moron.

Bullshit.

I've lived West Virginia, North Carolina, Texas, California, and now Washington. Within the past 3 years I've visited family in Texas, California, Oregon, North Dakota, and Idaho. I served in the military for 9 years with people from all over the country and all over the world.

I'm sheltered? Get off your fucking high horse while sitting the bible belt pretending to be the Trump Supporter Whisperer. The act is old.

The exact same things you said was going to lose the election for Hillary is what Trump is doing. Yet it's still those dumbass dems that don't get it.

For the 2016 election you went on and on about how people in certain parts of the country don't like being ignored and how Trump speaks to them. The only people he's spoken to for the past 2 years is his supporters while ignoring the other 60% of the country and now somehow that's a winning strategy. Keep moving those goalposts so you can shit on Dems more.

Dude, I grew up in rural Ohio. I lived in Mississippi for almost a decade. I lived in NC and IN. I know very few women that want to go back to 1950. I know no POC that want to go back to 1950. Even the men are smart enough to realize that going back to 1950 means lower household income, lower standard of living, and a short life span.

If you're desperate to get back to 1950 it's because you want a country that is run by white men. I get that a lot of people want that, but just because a lot of people want it doesn't mean it isn't based on some really repulsive ideology.

Here is the problem with you, you are constantly on the defensive with your victim card in hand.

At no time did I say women belong in the kitchen. I stated that women in the middle of the country still live by that old fashioned way of life.

I think women should be able to do what ever they want. And more power to them when they do.

You should really stop typing to your emotions and think a little. There are plenty of women that think this way, And many that dont. But Im talking about Trump supporters, not all women. I live where women believe that type of thing.

Get over yourself for a bit. You are tiresome with how you play a victim. Sad and tiresome. You need to grow up a little and come to the table with open eyes.

Shoot, I have a daughter that wants to be an aerospace engineer. Guess maybe I dont think that way, huh?
Oh and my wife makes more money than I do. I wish she made more so I could stay home.

To call me a victim is laughable. If anything I benefit financially from Trump being in office. I just have a moral compass and want the world to be a better place for my children.

If you honestly think women want to live that way you are, like I said, a fucking idiot. FWIW just about all Trump supporters are fucking idiots.

Im talking values here. Bot income, not health, values.

And being in those locales you know Im right. People are looking to go back to when the USA was number 1. And we controlled our destiny. And households had 2 parents. And there was discipline.

Its value based. Trump speaks to those values.

This is the post Obama hangover.

Maybe you are right, I may be way off base here. But I dont think I am. I really believe that the dems have the same attitude that lost them the election in 2016. You guys think calling Trump a bunch of names and moving the goal posts because the Mueller report didnt pan out like they hoped, will win. It wont.

Im just trying to point out that you guys are barking up the wrong tree. Instead of crying about Trump, get a damn candidate that canbeat him.

Start propping up Andrew Yang. he would beat Trump in a heartbeat.

But, no, here comes Biden. More of the same shit that Obama was that let Trump win.

No, they love playing the victim card


And

Majority of Republicans think evangelical Christians are more discriminated against than minorities – ThinkProgress

I know you live in a world where white men are manly tough men that get dirty, work on cars, drive trucks, and have a wife in the kitchen but Trump supporters play the victim as much, if not more than anyone.

Where I'll agree with tarcone is that the people with the mindset he describes do exist, I'd vehemently disagree that those are the people we need to cater to in order to put an end to Trumpism. It's not about winning over people that you are diametrically opposed to, it's about getting your own people out to vote.

Wisconsin illustrates this well... Madison and Milwaukee showed up to the polls at the mid-terms and we re-elected Tammy Baldwin by a landslide and knocked Scott Walker out of office. Fast forward to this spring, Madison and Milwaukee don't show up and we elect a complete ingrate to the State Supreme Court.

Get somebody that will inspire turnout (or at least not suppress it), and I think Trump is toast.

Man, you should learn to listen. Why do you paint everything I say with such a broad brush?

Im not saying all women. I know better then that. I grew up watching a socialist, lesbian, feminist win a seat on the city council for years.

Im talking about Trump supporters. You should turn off your liberal colored glasses and listen to different points of view. When you do, the world becomes this utopia you are searching for. Calling people names because they think differently then you,gets us no where.

So they idolize a guy who is on wife number three, has repeatedly committed adultery, and has virtually no hand in raising his children.

Solid values.

Not necessarily. But I live in a place where the values of hard work and family are extremely important. As are law and order.

then why do they support Trump?

Honest question.

I know, right?

But he went in and said I am getting the jobs Obama lost, Hes bringing back the blue collar jobs again. He wants to make America great again. Dont tell me that doesnt speak to a lot of people.

I don't disagree at all that those people exist. Despite my sheltered life I have family that are among those people. I'm calling bullshit on there being a massive group of them that stayed home during the mid-terms waiting for an election that counts despite record breaking turnout.

I also have no problem with them putting their ideas more in the open because it isolates them from the independents Trump needs to win another election. Despite what Tarcone believes, Trump won because he flipped independents. Not because he got red states excited to go to the polls.

Here in Washington we believe in sitting around on our asses and having abortions while in line at Starbucks. Along with Chaos and Anarchy.

Because he came in and spoke to the blue collar american. Open up the steel woks and the coal mines. Which helps families when there are jobs.

People feel Obama neutered the police in this country in favor of criminals. And that didnt sit well. That makes people feel unsafe.

He is going after other countries. He is doing things that Make America Great Again.
Like it or not it speaks to a lot of people in this country.

In theory, the fact that he didn't, and isn't doing any of that, and his policies that aren't based on hatred are blatant cash grabs for himself and his rich friends - that all should matter, but it won't.

Those people aren't going away (well, some are dying, b/c they skew older, but that's not going to be enough to matter by 2020), and their minds aren't going to be changed. So, that is what it is. So its all about turnout on the left, b/c I fully believe turnout and vote totals on the right are pretty much static.

How do you feel about Booty Man?

Except none of it's true. Coal mines are closing at a faster rate under Trump than Obama.

Blue collar jobs have basically stayed about where they were from the time Obama left office until now. Slight increase, but in very specific parts of the country and very specific jobs.

We're not going to go back in time as far as technology goes and it's tech killing those jobs. Not Obama.

Exactly. Not a word of this is true. But facts don't matter anymore. So, fuck it.

You know, Im sure they have thoe values in places. But they are not a priority like in other states.

Shoot 4 of Washingtons electoral votes defected to Trump. Why?

Proof that Trump supporters are a bunch of simple minded idiots who are easily brainwashed.

Absolutely. Im just stating how he won the election. You know that it is true.

Its not a racist agenda. Its a make america great again agenda. And his head line grabs all play into that. Wether the reality of it is on the ground or not. But I know there a lot more jobs out there now than there were 4 years ago.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo.../#5fe62ff15fa8

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/u...ies-trump.html

As atocep mentioned, there is no bringing back coal. Coal is dead. Obama's administration announced a number of different re-training grants to try to get those guys into viable work. Trump's lies fucked them. But it doesn't matter, b/c Trump saved us all from the scary black man. So, again, fuck it. Lets go as far left as we can while we've got this anger and momentum.

You think HRC wouldnt have pandered to her rich cronies?

Its just the difference of spending on Military and tax cuts for the rich or spending money on social programs at the expense of the middle class.

The characters are the same. The parties are different.

I would say scary brown man.

I dont disagree. But there is more to it ten just race. You have to realize that.

Because despite the stereotype, outside of the Seattle/Tacoma metro areas the majority of the state is republican.

And btw, Trump's 37% was the lowest total for a republican presidential candidate since Bob Dole.

Both sides have some gross shit going on to keep the same people in power. But this is not a "both sides" issue, no. Hillary wouldn't have lowered taxes on millionaires and billionaires, the left actively tries to increase social programs, the right tries to fight them and remove them. The bottom % of people in this country are in terrible shape, both white and black, and only one side of those has a single part of their platform to try to help.

You can say that the left only does it to pander to the poor for votes, and the people in power don't care, but once again, fuck it.. its the right thing to do, so I don't care why its done.

Just like the dems are a bunch of simple minded idiots that are easily brain washed.

You are not as enlightened as you think you are. the first thing you do is attack and call names.

You were on the HRC boat. She is as corrupt or more so than Trump. You lost so you get to bitch. But your attitude is the attitude that brought out a bunch of voters in 2016 and will again.

Show me where I was on the HRC boat.

I'll wait.

I dont disagree on the big picture part.

But those social programs do not help the poor. It helps keep them down. There is no incentive to go out and better yourself. And why would you? Shoot, my BIL gets $3200 a month for disability because he is lazy. He was able to play the system into making more money than 60% of the country.

He used the GI bill to get $1000 a month for college. Which he spent not on college.

Sure, Im all for helping, but we need a better system then what the dems throw out. Their programs hurt and are wasteful.

Played this game before and you spun it your way, even though you were wrong.. I wont play again.

Is he running with Deez Nuts?

State last voted republican in a presidential election in 1988. Both senators and the states house is democrat. I wouldnt say Washington is a republican state

I'm not saying it's a republican state. It leans heavily democrat as a whole, but if you were to remove the Seattle/Tacoma Metro areas the rest of the state is probably majority republican.

I currently live in an upper-middle class millennial and young money suburb of Tacoma. It's probably 70% democrat. The town 2 streets over from me is an older community that probably swings just as far toward the GOP. Get outside of this area and you hit a lot of rural farmland that is heavily GOP.

Somewhat counter-intuitive. Interesting read though.

Hispanics Rally to Trump, Boosting His 2020 Chances | RealClearPolitics

Considering the writer of the article and the poll used, to say it needs to be taken with a grain of salt is a monumental understatement.


I mean, really?

Found a couple analysis that is somewhat relevant to the woman-at-home discussion.

I can easily believe mid-west and southern women lean towards stay-at-home and that east and west coast women think differently.

(PDF) Life Satisfaction of Career Women and Housewives

CCF Press Advisory: Gender and Millennials Online Symposium | Council on Contemporary Families

Can you find a poll that shows the hispanic support is not substantially accurate? You may not like the author of the piece but he is quoting multiple sources?

I get you were responding to Tarcone's post (and I agree with some of his post and disagree with other pieces).

However, if you truly believe this applies to all/most of Trump supporters, you are wrong. I have spoken to several of my well-educated, intelligent colleagues who supported Trump and they are "not simple minded idiots".

This article is from January but shows why some of the polling he's quoting is inaccurate.

Is Trump really winning over Hispanics? - POLITICO

And a more recent article that touches on the same things.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/?utm_term=.c30e8a7c52a7

Can't read the WP because don't have a subscription. The politico story did shoot down NPR/Marist and seemed to contradict the article's claim on Politico/Morning Consult.

I found the Politico/Morning Consult for Mar 2019. Did a search on "hispanic" and does contradict what I had posted originally. Good to know, it was counter-intuitive and somewhat weird to think Trump had that strong of support.

https://morningconsult.com/wp-conten..._RVs_v1_DK.pdf

The secret to reading washington post articles is to right click and open in incognito window in Chrome. FYI

Ehh, they're pretty stupid. Especially if what you say is true that they base their vote on what other people think of them.

And I'm sure many people do feel shit on in red states. Many of those states are dirt poor and need to leech off the blue states for financial support. Including Iowa. For all the talk about handouts, maybe those states should pay their own way before bitching about others.


Silent minority. He won based off a centuries old system that was put in place to keep slave states happy. Not from the will of the people.


He's a thrice divorced trust fund baby who was out fucking a pornstar while his wife was caring for his newborn child.

Some kind of values those people hold.

If you're rich, you should vote for Trump. He's going to benefit you. Heck, even old people have a decent case voting for him because they'll pay less taxes and be dead by the time the debt needs to be repaid.

I think lots of critics fall over themselves to paint Trump's base as the most offensive characters possible while ignoring that the common thread is simply self interest. The great majority of the GOP base isn't necessarily actively stupid, racist, corrupt or morally bankrupt so much as they just put their own individual interests in front of anything else, and that's relatively basic human nature.

...that said, those folks who remain in the GOP camp appear to value the appeal to those interests even beyond any actual action taken towards them, so I dunno how or why Dems would choose to court those folks.

Booty Man = Buttigieg BTW. Didn't feel like typing the full name out and figured it'd make a nice pun.

Anyway, it looks like the last couple pages is showing I made good use of my ignore list, considering some of his comments would definitely have triggered a box-worthy response on my mind end.

Listen, Booty Man clearly speaks to the butt-fixated minority that makes up the invisible backbone of this country, and I'm not going to give up my vote just because you made him up earlier today.

TIL. Thank you!

(and should work for NYT also)

... wait, is that cheating? Should I be doing this? Is my moral compass way off?

Just focus on the "all/most ... are simple minded idiots". Admittedly the colleagues I talk with are middle-income to rich but they are not SMI.

Its fair to use name calling because its happened the other direction in spades. But if you really, really believe this, you are wrong.

There is obviously truth in what you say but don't think that is the full story. Toss in patriotism, toss in believing in MAGA.

Poll Shows Veterans' Support for Trump Is Strong | Military.com

Nothing screams patriotism like a guy who pussed out of Vietnam, trashed distinguished members of the military, and spent a chunk of his campaign trying to team up with a foreign adversary.

Nonsense like "patriotism" and "values" are tools to mask the real reasons you can't say out loud.

So you are saying the % of military that supports Trump are ...

"all/mostly ... are simple minded idiots" or something else ...?

(Go ahead, I can guess but say it so there is absolutely no misunderstanding)

You know, the large chunk of the military aren't exactly pulling from the top of the playing deck. There are great examples of exemplary leaders, but a substantial part enlist for a reason.

I keep hearing about going back to some long-forgotten values and the way things were. That we should visit some of these rural areas and cater to them to understand America. Many of these states are the poorest, dumbest, unhealthiest, welfare-taking-est places in the country. They constantly elect republicans because of "values' even at the expense of everything in their lives. I just don't get it. The last people in this country who should feel persecuted are white Christians. OMG, the Walmart lady said Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas, this country has gone to trash!

I agree with the above posters, too many idiots allowed to vote (and by the way, there is a greater than 50% chance the "values" guy you voted for has either cheated on his wife, paid for an abortion, or banged some dude in a bathroom). But hey, White People Rule!

Ouch.

Not sure this tells the full story but here's a statistic. I think there is value in having obtained a HS degree. You may have been thinking about college with your "top of the playing deck" but tbh, that's pretty presumptive.

6 facts about the U.S. military's changing demographics | Pew Research Center

I could say the same thing about people voting for democrats. Except they live in large metro areas which are some of the poorest, dumbest, unhealthiest, welfare-taking-est places. But they think the dems are for them. So they vote that way. They buy the lie that some dem is going to improve their lot in life through government hand outs.

It cuts both ways. Face it, our country is full of dumb people. The GOP finally found a guy that could rally more of their dumb people out to vote. The dems failed.

I guess it comes down to which party can throw out a person to rally the uninformed.

OK.

I'll rephrase.

Not all Trump supporters are simple minded idiots, just a very large portion, but just about all simple minded idiots are Trump supporters.

I bet a Venn diagram of people with truck nuts and people who support Trump is pretty much a circle.

Democrats more educated than Republicans, Pew Research Center survey finds - Washington Times

I like the qualification, rephrasing ... but com'on give with one hand and slap with the other ... truck nuts?

I guess the stereotype of democrats being wine-sipping, elitist snobs may be true.

Lathum is the type that drove those voters to Trump. As a highly educated friend would say he is part of the problem. My friend calls it the "wussification" of America. Our country is becoming soft and entitled. Which goes against the grain. This country was born and raised on violence. It is our culture. Right or wrong. But people still believe in the values instilled by the people that made this country great. nd a lot of people want to go back to that. We do not want to be France. We want to be the USA.

If you look at the article this comes from it's pretty obvious there's a lot of noise in the results, so looking at any short period is a mistake.

So Jesus is violence?

LOL. reaching pretty far arent you. Dig deep.

I over simplified my response and I apologize. But you are being obtuse and you know it

The values that created this country are being run down by the Dems. Again, we are not France.

But you are right, this country was created based partly on freedom of religion. So people could come to a place and worship their god anyway they wanted. No state religion, just your beliefs.

I know that frightens you. But no one is going to try and convert you. You are safe.

Yes, JPhillips. You see, we need to go back to simpler times, when men were men. When it wasn't about your "book-learnin'" (I mean, what did that ever get us but an uppity black-man as president). No, we need to go back to time when violence proved the worthiness of a man. Back when women knew their place (which was where a man told her to be).



I personally think the problem started when we left the caves in first place.

We did have a $65 bottle of wine with dinner last night, so maybe so.

Dude, again you have no idea who I am. I'm an elder in my church. I just find your love of violence as a founding principle to be appalling.

So what Tarcone is saying is that we need to go back to a time when blacks had no rights, women were basically slaves existing to raise kids and be domestic slaves, and a culture of violence was the major part of our identity, otherwise we are going to turn in to France. Makes sense.

There's no point in an honest argument with tarcone because he's willing to contradict whatever he said in the past.

Dems should find an Obama, but Obama is the cause of Trump.

It's not about the economy, but Trump brought back all the jobs.

We need to embrace violence, but the cities are too full of violence.

Wow. Oversimplify much?


Do you know the history of the country you live in? At all?

Do you understand any of the problems we have today?

You realize that the democrats were the party of slavery and fought against civil rights, correct?

Im not advocating for Trump. But you guys are the problem. You sit in your suburban homes and spout off about how bad the country is and if you dont think the way we do you are wrong and stupid.

Your right JPhillips all I said that you posted is true.

If the dems want to win, they need to find a person with the qualities of Obama. And yes, his leadership led to Trump being elected.

It is not solely about the economy. But there are more jobs now then there were in the last administration. And fed people are happy people.

I never said we need to embrace violence. I am against violence. Never been in a fight in my life. And I apologize for the oversimplification of that statement. I was using it as a general statement of the values of this country. But you extremely intelligent liberals chose to play dumb and condescending.

That is the problem we are facing. This type of behavior divides this already divided country.

We need to get back to those values that made this country great. Hard work, taking care of yourself, raising your kids. That is being lost.

one of the greatest dems of all time once said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country."

The democratic party has strayed way to far away from this brilliant idea.

It all boils down this statement and you are dead fucking wrong. We've never lost those values. What evidence do you have that we have other than your own delusion?

Not everybody, just them. You know, those people that always stereotype Republicans.

Well, I look at the inner cities where the kids have no fathers. And these cities are the worst places to live.

I can look at the poor rural areas and say the same thing. Kids raising kids.

I can look at all the entitlement programs the government gives to those that are poor. No incentive to work, just hand outs.

You dont see this? Are you serious?

Then you are the problem.

You know lungs, Im surprised by your response.

I saw on the news a Minnesota dairy farmer crying on facebook over the prices of milk and it wasnt "fair" and basically begging for a government handout.

You saw the writing on the wall and changed your business model. You worked your ass off to change the production of your farm. You didnt cry for a hand out.

Im shocked.

It's all your own perception. Give me facts, give me statistics.

For what it's worth, I'm living the entitled life right now. Yeah, I've gotten on whatever government assistance I could after our farm shut down until I can get my business into money-making mode. If you think it's an easy life, you are out of your fucking mind. I have EVERY incentive to get off as soon as I can. It's not a sustainable lifestyle! So sit back and throw stones all you want, but I'm living it right now and you are completely full of shit.

Then you have the nerve to tell me that I'm the fucking problem? Fuck you, man.

You obviously didn't know my whole story.

I do not. But I see the end result. I see you hitching yourself up by your boot straps and being successful.

The end result came from you working to get where you are. Did you have help along the way? Im sure you did. Did you quit working because of that help? No, you didnt.

It wasnt a crutch, but a helping hand. There is a difference.

I am going to regret re-engaging but there are several folks in this thread who I respect greatly while differing in opinion.

There are also some folks I dis-repsect on higher levels though we share opinions.


However where I think we are talking past each other is this:




Where I think, at their core, the educated and intelligent centers of each part party ways is in the above.

It is what is the definition of help.


Instead of putting words in people's mouths let me speak only for myself, and what I think many who think like me think.


I oppose government welfare programs but strongly support helping the poor, down-trodden and in need.

I think the government is horribly inefficient and is the worst possible use of finite resources to help those people.
I know that if I keep more of my income out of government hands I will make a greater positive impact in my local area than they ever will.
I want to help the lower class. I don't think the left's policies help them. I think they hurt them.
I respect that many, maybe the majority, of the voter base of the left has their heart in the right place. They want to support policies that they think will help.

I also think that many of the controlling interest of the left party doesnt give two shtis about the lower class and wants to "help" them only to buy their votes.
In contrast, I think there is certainly a % of the right that wants to lower taxes just to keep more in their pockets.
I accept that there is a portion of the right that wants to abolish welfare (used generically) programs because they dont care about others and are selfish.
And I think there is a % that truly thinks all government mandated welfare programs amount to little more than giving a junkie a fix or a drunk a drink. And that they are not help and that they truly want to help them.


I think most reasonable people see that all the groups above I mention exist.

Where I think we disagree is the % of each group.

Some folks think 99% or all Rs are bad and evil and stupid and 1% are ok.
Some folks think 99% or all Ds are bad or evil and stupid and 1% are ok.

I think most reasonable people recognize neither of these to be true.

I think the real distribution is much, much closer to 80% of both parties being well intentioned though opposing on ideas on best way. I think the balance of power is essentially 49/51 and sways back and forth by the day and time.

I think there are a lot of folks on both sides who fail to consider that the other side may have a point, that stick their fingers in their ears and FA-LA-LA-LaLA so they dont hear the other side.

Its why I have a lot of emotional fatigue on the issue. I understand the belief that gov welfare helps. I disagree, but I understand it. If you have a new perspective I will gladly listen and try to learn. But when repeat tired platitudes and name call I tune you out.

Same goes for the side I agree with on any given issue. If you are just going to spew rheotric Im going to tune out and wander away pretty quickly.

Before I am labeled let me label myself.

Strong, Starchly right leaning on most, but not all, issues.
Voted for Trump in 2016. Knowing what I know now would vote for him in 2016 again.
Will not vote for Trump in 2020. Depending on what my options are determines whether I will vote D or abstain from any Presidential vote.

Cities are the worst! Then why are they still growing while suburbs decline?

They're too violent! Except that levels of violent crime have gone down since the ideal time you want to go back to.

It feels a little like I'm the 15th guy into the fight & kicking somebody while they're down, but he's still saying dumb stuff, so...

No, there is not a difference. My unemployment benefits total $16k for the year. When they are gone, they are gone. I'm getting $300/week. And my health insurance is now subsidized. That's it. When the six months are up, they are up.

And it's not just my own experiences that tell me living on the dole is not a good lifestyle. I had a homeless guy living on our farm for six years. The guy was in his late 50s, very few skills, worked his whole life until he got laid off from his factory job. Once his unemployment ran out, he was fucked. Food stamps were all he got. He tried to work, but he was old, slow, and not very smart. Nobody wanted him.

Trust me, living on the dole is not a lifestyle that is sustainable.

There are ways to scam the system and the poor learn how to do it. I have studied this. Read Ruby Paynes book sometime. There are ways around the system. And they figure it out.

Your middle class thought process is completely different than that of the poor. It is well documented. Read into this stuff. You know that 16k isnt sustainable. But that is your Middle class upbringing.

This is a great post that gives a viewpoint much better than making insane generalizations about where a women would be happier or why we need more violence.

Personally I never thought all republicans were bad, but when you see the kind of person Trump so obviously is and continue to support him I can’t help but question your ethics and morality.

You know big cities have neighborhoods and different sections right?

St Louis is considered one of the most violent cities in the world. But there some really nice neighborhoods. I lived in a couple of them in my day.

Your point has no value.

The sweeping generalizations you have made the last few pages of this thread are nothing short of repugnant.