Thought I saw blond hair coming out of the helmet. So my vote is on Andrea as well. Or at least, they are trying to make us think it's Andrea.

I think it was Andrea, too. No way it was the geek guy. The van driver actually fired a gun, I believe, and maybe even killed a walker that came at him/her after leaving the van. I don't think the geek guy would do any of that, even if he somehow talked himself into doing the van thing in the first place (also something I couldn't see). Plus, if the geek guy was part of the Governor's attack plan, he wouldn't have still been at Woodbury when the Governor was gone.

Plus, I don't get the sense the Governor had any idea that was going to happen. He seemed as curious as anyone when the sound of the van approaching started to come into the scene.

One thing that confuses me, though, if it was Andrea--how did she know how to get to the prison? She had never been there, and no one at Woodbury who would have known would have talked to her, IMO. Heck, I am not sure anyone was left in Woodbury anyway who would have known.

There is no way that was Andrea.

Fantastic episode. The only really bad part of the show continues to be the exchanges between Andrea and the Governor.

I knew Rick was going to be saved but I thought it was going to be by Tyrese and his group.

Hopefully the whole crazy Rick thing is over. It is also interesting that all of the prisoners are now dead. I thought they were going to have a larger role in the series.

Interesting to see the first part of Talking Dead & hear Kirkman talking about the Andrea/Gov relationship as one where he sees her as a potential co-leader, respects her, admires her, etc.

My takeaway from tonight was "keep your friends close ..." because he's realized that she's the only internal threat to his leadership.

I also just had a real uneasy thought about the fate of the current residents of Woodbury, post final conflict with out merry band. They sure seemed to work pretty hard to emphasize the cult-leader aspect of the Gov's style tonight. Did Kool-Aid survive the zombie apocalypse?

Ooh, I think I just figured out the zombies ... and if I'm right then my theory is a full-fledged spoiler

Interesting possibility. I guess we can always go back to the recording (if we have it) to check that.

Zombie-quarium. Heh.

I felt it was Andrea as well. She seems torn and wants to feel her old group out first before making any decisions. Seemed to be a way to make the governor think they were overrun and end the gun fight.

Awesome episode.

Kirkman has always been big on reminding us how vulnerable things are, just when you start to feel safe. I really liked Axel -- was hoping he'd get to last awhile.

Watching the replay and just saw the again the conversation between Milton and the Governor, where the Governor states he doesn't know where Andrea's loyalities lie. IMO, this makes it even more clear this was a test set up for Andrea, and she "passed", from the Governor's perspective.

He would have known that Milton couldn't have kept anything from Andrea if she really questioned him. And he knew that if Andrea knew the Governor was going to attack the prison, she would rush out to either help the prison or help him attack it.

No. It isn't either of them.

Does anyone actually play Crysis? Crazy amount of ads for something that looks dumb.

Def not toothless walkers. I think it was the other girl at camp

You mean the other girl at Woodbury? The one was standing sentry whom Andrea spoke to?

The bus driver was Lori. She's alive and Milton brought her back. They wanted us to think that Rick was going crazy but she's alive and Rick will have to do what Carl couldn't.

On second viewing, it was a tan colored cloth around his or her neck. I still think it was Andrea. Seems like a big thing to happen for it to end up being some random NPC that carried it out.

I'm taking this side of things. My view is that the Governor didn't want her there, didn't want her knowing he was going, and the show spent about 10 minutes setting up the idea that the Governor is trying to give Andrea the perception of power in the community primarily to distract her from everything he was planning at the prison. I don't think it would make one bit of sense from any angle for it to be Andrea from a story perspective.

From a storytelling perspective, revealing that it was Andrea would take a LOT of work to make it feel like a meaningful twist and not just wasting a large amount of the show's time to fuck with viewers unnecessarily. I can't buy into this idea at all I don't think.

I don't think it was Andrea, but I definitely think it was a woman.

I think it probably was Andrea, but I'll be disappointed if so. It doesn't really make sense for her to do what she did. I don't see why she would help the Governor after what he did with Daryl and then seeing him attacking the prison. It would make more sense for her to run him over...

Plus, it doesn't really check out that she didn't know where he was during the day (she was asking everyone), she was able to round up the zombies/truck/armor (plus had never been to the prison), and then execute the plan at the same time that they were attacking the prison (unless it was coordinated).

Again, I think (from the body shape looking like a female and that they had "her" totally covered) that it probably was her, but I think they are going down the Lost path of purposely deceiving the viewer (spending view time having her search for him, having the governor come to her room to essentially say it was over and that she should lead, etc.)

Couldn't have been Andrea, she was back at the town. Governor asked her to watch the place for awhile, he was going to be out doing something. I guess we found out what that was, he a crazy man ready to snap.

The problem with Crysis was that it was released too early. Most people didn't have systems that could run it. The first one was awesome on my old rig....and I want to go back and replay it on my new system if I ever get the time. It was a great SP FPS.

Also, when we heard the vehicle coming, the Governor didn't seem to be concerned as he knew it was coming.

He also didn't seem concerned about taking cover during all the shooting.

I had a totally different feeling about his reaction, I thought it was an unexpected surprise (but he relaxed immediately because he recognized the vehicle).

I took that as a indication that he no longer cares about dying (or, alternately, he believes that he's largely invincible now)

Definitely wasnt Andrea. Im sure it was the chick standing guard at Woodbury. People are reading way too much into that scene.

During that shootout, was I the only one wondering how, after two seasons of damn near perfect, bullseye, headshots, none of Rick's crew could manage to hit anyone (I think they did finally got the tower guy at the end).

Zombies don't shoot back?

That was my feeling too.

They are as accurate as the plot requires. It took me out of the immersion since it was very noticeable.

Guard chick is considerably taller than the suited up driver shown.

Speaking of the bullet that took out the shooter in the guard tower ... I guess the shot that got him actually went through the glass (since it exploded) and struck him on his right side rather than hitting him directly. If so, it was a helluva random shot, since the angle seems to have been really awkward & a direct hit would have been much more likely from the good guys firing position.

I didn't notice that. Is that setting up him coming back as a walker at an inconvenient time since it was the only non-headshot of the episode (and maybe of the season)

Exactly. It's a lot easier to shoot something from 20 feet away that's not trying to shoot back versus a 200+ yard shot against heavy fire. Not to mention that Rick's group didn't have good long-ranged weaponry until it was brought out later in the fight.

I thought it was actually a headshot (by "right side" I simply meant that side of his head), especially since he went down immediately & stayed down. But the angle seemed really off to me (and the guard tower glass shattering seemed really really wrong).

They set up Maggie very carefully aiming that shot that killed the guy in the guard tower. So whatever we make of the shot, she seemed to be aiming it.

I need to get my head around where that guard tower is located. Is it on the edge of the exterior fence? It seemed like it was on the inner perimeter. I couldn't figure out how they got someone up there unnoticed.

Back to Andrea. The woman standing sentry as the truck option doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't she have gone with the Governor if she was part of his plan?

No, regardless of what we're meant to think of her motivations or if the scriptwriters are screwing with us, I think it was Andrea in the truck.

Besides, lots more "oomph" if it's Andrea. From a drama perspective, what do we get if it's some random sentry woman? Do we even know that character's name?

ahh ok, I gotcha.

Now that you've reminded me who made the shot ...

I thought Maggie was located somewhere to the right of where Carl was. In other words looking roughly straight on at the tower, but further away from it than Carl's position. Given that, I don't know how it's even possible that she could fire a shot that both struck the shooter in the tower AND shattered the glass that was basically parallel to him.

The only way I can make that shot work in my head would be if Maggie were actually closer to the tower (than Carl) AND was actually to the left of his position (if you point him toward the tower for his orientation). That would allow her to fire through the front window, have the bullet then exit the side window & hit the shooter (and IIRC both windows shatter, so that would make sense).

Helluva shot if that was it.

Did the glass in the tower shatter? I thought it was the light that was above that guy's head.

Maybe my impression was just dead wrong (always possible, my lying eyes could have fooled me) but I'd have sworn the glass at the front of the "box" exploded on that shot.

I always like to take cover behind filing cabinets, as I'm pretty sure that thin sheet metal is more than strong enough to withstand a high velocity assault rifle round

I agree with this take. I thought it was clear the governor did not expect the van to arrive as it did. I read his reaction as slightly annoyed and slightly amused.

Well, given that the guvna (even with one eye) was the only bad guy to actually hit anything other than Axel ...

I am a bit late to this party (didn't watch the episode until Monday night because I watched the season 3 finale of "Downton Abbey").

But, I totally agree with this. From the moment poor Axel's head exploded until the end was incredible. It was very well shot, intense and the van full of zombies was crazy. Really great stuff.

I don't think there is anyway that Andrea was driving the van. I think it was a woman, but I am pretty sure that Andrea was still in Woodbury and the Govenor was doing this on the "DL". He's trying to play both sides. If she was there, then what was that whole scene between her and Milton and "he's on a run" and her and that other girl on the wall concerning "martinez" about?

I really liked the Darryl and Merle stuff and their random encounter. Angey, Leader Glenn was fantastic. Let's hope this attack snaps rick out of wandering Crazy Town.

Been loving Herschel all season long. It will be sad when he dies.

Michonne really needs to learn to use her words. Please. At some point. Use your words, girlfriend. Well, then again, maybe it's a survival instinct. Look what happened when poor T-Dogg and Axel finally really started to open up and develop some strong personality? So, perhaps it's best you keep quiet, Michonne, and just stick to killing zombies with your beloved sword.


P.S. FREE TYRESE!!!

This reminds me. Where the hell was he and his group? I was surprised that they weren't in this episode given how the last one ended. I was hoping they would have a larger part and make it a regulars on the show.

I believe they are still quarantined in the other part of the prison. They all took off when Rick started waiving his gun around and telling Ghost Lori to leave. They, rightfully so, thought he was a crazy, gun-wielding person who may be yelling at them.

I imagine all the gunfire will draw them back out and that after the attack, Rick et al. will realize they are in over their heads and need all the help they can get.

On the Talking Dead, Robert Kirkman said they are no longer in the prison and are "out and about" or something to that affect. Basically they left after Rick went cuckoo.

Ah. Probably left the same way they came in. That would make sense.

The way Kirkman talked suggested we're likely to see them again at some point. Not that that would be a surprise, especially given how big I understand Tyrese is (never read the comics).

I just got to a part in the comics where Tyrese goes from a decent character to completely bad-ass. While I don't think that scene will end up in the show, I am hoping that he does play a bigger part (and my understanding is that he does too)

I fully expected to see them come back and help out - but alas.

So in the preview of next weeks episode...

Andrea makes it to the prison, using a zombie ala Michone and it looks like maybe Merle and the rest of the gang may have some kind of 'truce' going on. Definitely looking forward to seeing it.

But she already was in the van!

.

Whutttt? She was at Woodbury asking where the Governor was.

Did Andrea make it to the prison? I thought I just saw her leaving Woodbury with the zombie in front of her.

I'll have to watch it again, but, to me it looked like she was pushing a zombie in front of her and then looked up at the prison. I could swear that she was walking through the busted gate of the prison. Could be some quick clever editing though.

Andrea is getting annoying...

Andrea may be the worst character on TV. She would not be out of place on Dexter.

With Lori dead, I find it pretty hard to disagree.

Totally wasted episode, quite possibly a new series low.

dola-
Why is the blonde chick playing american idol again.

Not the greatest episode at all, though I wouldn't say a new series low. Still beats the zombie in the well and some of the other filler episodes in season 2.5.

Sadly, the quality of an episode does seem inversely proportional to the amount of screen time poor Andrea gets. I am not sure how they will be able to salvage the character after all of this.

So Michonne went back to "expose" the Governor and to hurt Andrea just because Andrea chose safety instead of heading back out in the the zombie-infested wasteland? Hrmm...

Tyrese with the Governor now? Yikes! Say it aint so, Tyrese! Hopefully, he'll see through the Governor's madness and help take him down from the inside.

Next week looks quite promising.

I suspect next week may be rather nasty.

As for this week, I almost wonder if the dud episode of the season (hopefully) was planned with an eye toward the Oscars. I mean, if a casual viewer was going to miss an episode, this would have been the one. About the only thing that would bear explanation might be the 2 minutes it took Tyrese's group to join up with the bad guys. Otherwise, a highly missable episode.

I suspected we might see an episode like this to sort of bridge the gap between the two groups. There are five episodes left this season, which I am sure will all build up toward a final battle at the prison.

The last episode of the series is entitled "Welcome to the Tombs", which I am guessing is a reference to that.

On another board, someone suggested that Rick might be meeting up with some of the guys he got into with when Hershel went to the bar in Season 2. I am not sure if I saw that or not.

How weird. My son asked me about that exact scenario last night ... and I brushed it off by saying that they were just totally random dudes afaik.

I do like the development of populating the world with random people, like that Mexican family the Brothers Dixon ran across on the bridge. That's what the world would be like. Lots of walkers. Some large communities, like Woodbury and then scattered survivors throughout.

Is it possibly Morgan shooting from the roof?

Last nights episode was the weakest so far of the young season. I'm hoping it was a platform to set things in motion or tie in other things down the line. As a stand alone episode though, not very impressed with it.

She likes to sing, I guess, and it's not like they have anything else to do but sit around, be miserable and wonder when the army across town will be battering down their prison walls.

So show of hands, who thought a zombie or a gunshot was going to crash through the wall and kill that girl in mid-song? Seems like anyone who shows any happiness in the Walking Dead world gets killed off. ;) Like the poor prison dude last episode.

And I really thought that last scene was going to be the Governor killing Andrea after she was a coward and chose not to kill him. That would have made this episode worthwhile, but alas... :)

I do have to say that the zombie curb stomp was a bit stressful. After watching "American History X", I have a hard time watching any kind of curb stomping, even when done to a zombie.

Right there with you

I can't see anything that even slightly resembles a curb stomp without thinking of that scene from American History X.

They killed off the unpopular Lori, now they need to do the same to Andrea. She's awful and to give her a feature episode was bad tv.

Andrea was never the best at making decisions and thinking things out. She almost killed Daryl, she slept with Shane, she slept with the Governor, she wanted to kill herself at the CDC and she got herself cut off at the farm and got separated from the group.

Reading some chatter elsewhere that it is probably Morgan on the rooftops. This makes sense based on the comic book, right? Timeline, anyways.

The main problem with Andrea is that she was always meant to be a minor character who they are trying to make into a major character tying the two camps together. I don't she was ever really written for that role, if that makes sense.

She was fine when she was running around with Shane and hanging out with Dale. I totally forgot she didn't know about Shane.

Thank you Dale!!!

(/sarcasm)

I didn't mind it. Last week's was pretty action packed and they can't all be like that. Last night's episode was presumably setting up next week's action. Yeah, Andrea is the most annoying character though, and it's been that way since the beginning.

Haha! That's exactly what I was thinking.

I must be the only one who actually thinks Andrea's character has improved and been more interesting since Michone left her at Woodbury.

Now, keep in mind, I still think she's annoying as fuck and won't cry if (when?) she's finally done away with. But, IMO, her story arc is a good deal better now than it ever was before.

BTW, if it is indeed Morgan (and his son) coming back into the show next week, that would be completely and totally awesome.

I mostly covered my eyes during this scene and peeked between my fingers. It didn't matter, the audio was the worst part anyway. *shudders*

No.

they should crossover cast Skyler White to tell Andrea what we all want to.

Skip the "Previously On" segment just in case... you know whenever Morgan shows up again they'll spoil it by having flashbacks to episode 1 during that.

Do you think? That would seem incredibly dumb. But, sure, you may be right.

I would have to think they wouldn't do that...right?

Of course they would. They know they would get a ratings bump if they give that away. I always avoid all previews for just this reason. If I could, I'd avoid the "previously on" segments as well since they give stuff away.

It was virtually impossible to NOT know that Merle was coming back in Season 3, they went out of their way to make sure of that. I feel quite certain if they brought even a minor character back from a long time ago it would at least be spoiled in the "previously on..." segment, if not in many more ways beforehand.

That is true. I guess I am just giving them too much credit and hoping to be legitimately surprised by it (if that is the case).

If I remember, I will be fast-forwarding through the "previously on" segment this week, heh.

They learned this trick from Lost... :)

I personally think "previously on" is an okay place for a spoiler of that level.

That just seems too obvious...for some things, it's okay - but for events from 2 seasons ago, it's just too obvious.

They should never have introduced Axel, Oscar, Tyrese and even Michonne if they were just going to marginalize them. I will watch and I'm sure others will, but I wonder when a large backlash will happen. I'm glad this week is a world exploration one. Maybe michonne will get some lines. Carl needs more usage as well.

Now that Laguerta is mercifully gone, there's a role open for her. She can probably trill her R's and pretend to be Cuban.

Michonne feels really, really under-developed. Walking Dead has a bad habit about doing that with too many characters, but I'm very surprised its happened with that one.

As someone who hasn't read the comics, the only reason my expectations for Tyrese so far are different is the hype his introduction got. The show itself hasn't committed to his group in any big way yet, but they've been around enough that I'm intrigued to see what their role is in the upcoming conflict. I have on issues with him at all so far.

Same here. I recognized him as Cutty from the Wire but had I not read this thread I wouldn't have thought him anything other than a secondary character and definitely wouldn't know his character name on the show. To be honest as a non-comic book viewer I would put the main characters as Rick, Daryll, the governor, Asian guy, and Andrea. Michonne would also be a background character to me if I hadn't read on here how big a deal she is supposed to be.