So no one else finds it funny how violent people were being about how Telle needs to be saved, yet given the same opportunity to do so, they aren't doing it?

Vote count please through Telle's switch

(5) Telle - Passacaglia (1268), Goldeneagle (1273), Oliegirl (1274), Chief Rum (1383), Alan (1419)
(5) Saldana - claphamsa (1291), Mrs.Schmidty (1358), mccollins (1408), Packerfanatic (1417), Telle (1485)
(4) Passacaglia - Saldana (1340), Render (1356), Lonestargirl (1389), Lathum (1424)
(2) Oliegirl - Eaglefan (1311), Danny (1282)

this plus Telle's switch correct?

Lathum isn't on right now, and I'm guessing RendeR is being distracted by two toddling monsters :) I would expect at least one of them to follow my lead to moving to saldana.

thanks

Vote Saldana

of the 3 people it is/was between him & Pass here

Yes.

Lathum was given the chance earlier when he was on, so he may not be on now, but he could have done it previously.

This is a pretty good answer. This would be a lot easier if RendeR hadn't been so vehement in your defense last game, when you were a wolf.

See, now that I can singularly make it a 2 vote Saldana lead myself, they lost their chance to prove to me that this vote was more about saving Telle than some other agenda. The failure to take me up on that offer in a heart beat to do something that was so blatantly obvious supposedly as they were telling me just doesn't feel right to me.

I'm trying to give Render a little benefit of the doubt in my head since I know last game he was in my defense too and I was a wolf then also.. but he is making it hard for me to do so with his actions and words right now.,

He defended me that game? I don't remember that. I'd ask for a reference but I don't like cross-game posting :)

Then don't do it yet. Give them some time.

Honestly, so far in this game, unless there was some type of proof on Saldana rather than suspicion, I doubt Lathum would vote for him.

But Lathum made it so clear that lynching Telle was the worst thing in the world, that it should be so easy to see, he threatened me, he attacked me... how could I let her be lynched....

Yet when given the same opportunity to save her he chose not to.

Votes as of post 1514:
6 - saldana - claphasma (1291), Mrs. Schmidty (1358), McCollins (1408), PackerFanatic (1417), Telle (1485), SnDvls (1506)
5 - Telle - Passacaglia (1268), GoldenEagle (1273), oliegirl (1274), Chief Rum (1383), Alan T (1419)
4 - Passacaglia - saldana (1340), RendeR (1356), LoneStarGirl (1389), Lathum (1424)
2 - oliegirl - Danny (1282), EagleFan (1311)

Yet to vote: Schmidty

And I think he wants to avoid voting for his friend that badly. I can understand it from a RL perspective.

Please explain the run on Telle?

She was scanned good by Lathum which means the following things come into play:

Either Lathum is the real seer or the fool:

If he's the real seer (50%), we lynch a villager.

If it's the fake seer:

Telle is a wolf and came up good (about a 25% chance overall of her being a wolf)
Telle is good and came up good (about a 75% chance overall of her being a villager)

We have 50% chance Lathum is seer, 12.5% chance Lathum is fool and Telle is wolf and 37.5% chance Lathum is fool and Telle is still good.

This gives us a 1 in 8 chance of getting a wolf if we pick her (and learning something) but a much better chance picking someone else.

You missed the part of the possibilities where Lathum is the cultist, he signled the wolves to lay off of him by scanning Telle first to clear her, and if ever a real seer did scan her he could just say "See proves I am the fake seer" which until now pretty much everyone else seems to be believing.

Now there's a far-fetched theory? Can you try to think of a simpler one where I'm actually good? It appears that a few people have.

First question mark should have been a period.

If he's explaining the run, I don't think it matters.

Oh.. yeah. I just don't want weird theories like that getting into peoples heads. And I'm still trying to get Alan to see what's right in front of him :)

Or maybe I should say, if he's just responding to EagleFan's assertion. EF is ignoring a TON of what's gone on today.

Some of us have other responsibilities Alan, I haven't been right at the machine for a bit now, have a little patience.


UNVOTE PASS
VOTE SALDANA


Happy now?

Render, I understand that people have other responsibilities. I myself have a conference call in a few minutes that will tie me up..

but I was just saying you did post in thread after I gave you that option.. so the vote is good, but it isn't as good in my mind as if you had done it right away instead of post more responding to me afterwards. I just feel if you feel that strongly about something and are given a way out of the situation, you leap on it.. you don't post more arguements instead.

And those odds are about 5% that he is the cultist and 25% of that portion that Telle is a wolf.

We still don't learn if he is the cultist by lynching Telle, no matter what the results are.

I see no reason for him to fake reveal and it seemed too much like the wolves are trying to set him up for a lynching.

This will at least tell us something by the votint records today. If/when Telle comes back good we need to look into those making the push for her to be lynched in a serious manner.

I personally believe that Lathum is on the level after seeing how things have played out. That is a huge leap of faith for me as I usually think he is lying in every post. He could tell me that the sky is blue and I wouldn't believe him mid-game. ;)

Now for Saldana, I don't have a great feeling from him. He seems too defensive (as defensive as I usually get when I was a wolf).

With that said, oliegirl is still on the top of my list of who not to turn your back on when the moon comes out.

I am reading very quickly while at work. My time is very limited so I could have easily miseed things. What did I miss? I am looking at the main points which were votes and subsequent explanations.

Lathum - is there anything in you PM that you are allowed to share with the scans that might give you a hint about the reliability of your scans? i.e. does it say something like "Telle is not a wolf" or "Telle seems to be on the side of good".

Just wondering if the info St. C is giving you allows you to read anything into it at all to help us along.

i thouht of this too, but im sure the philsipher has scanned lathum by now. and its a worlthless role otherwise so why wouldnt they just says so if lathum were the cultist?

I don't get alan in this game. He seems to have his own agenda.

Oh well, I have to get back to the grind. If I am lucky I will try to get back online around the deadline, if I can get away from the bosses.

I am looking forward to going over this thread tonight, it should provide for some interesting analysis.

I'm not sure what you missed exactly -- just that your whole argument seems to rest on Lathum's scan, which we can't really use (thus the votes on me as well), and there's been a lot more for us to go on instead of playing with random probabilities.

Alan, unless I am mistaken you are misinforming people by saying if they want to save telle to vote for Saldana.

You are saying I should have voted Sal instead of Pass which is wrong. Both Sal and PAss had 4 votes to Telles 5 when I voted so a vote for Pass accomplishes the same thing.

If people want to save Telle a vote for PAss is just as good yet you are completly ignoring that fact

I don't see Alan in the thread, but I think he was saying that he would move his vote to saldana, but not me -- so if you wanted to save Telle, you would have been better served by moving your vote to sal. But I don't want to put words in his mouth.

My point is that for most of the day you and Saldana have been tied and Telle one vote ahead.

Yet Alan keeps harping on the fact that the only way to save Telle is to vote Saldana. He is completly ignoring the fact that a vote for you can also save Telle.

My guess is that Alan has his own winning condition and Sal or Pass has something to do with it.

I think it is important that just because Alan is close to a COT it doesn't mean his theories/opinions are any more correct then anyone elses

I don't think he said the 'only' way to save Telle was to vote saldana. I think he was just implying that a vote for Saldana would do a better job.

there has been some wording that leads me to believe I may be the fake.

My guess was that Alan had a theory that Render, myself, and maybe you were wolves and that saldana is also a wolf and thus we won't vote for him. So in order to show him that we're not a pack of wolves, we should vote for saldana rather than Pass who I guess Alan thinks is more likely a villager.

At least that's how I took it and why I moved my vote to saldana.

I'm gonna go all RendeR on this one, and say that I could be wrong here -- he might have said that, but I haven't been studying the Book of Alan enough to have it all memorized.

cmon Pass.

he has been balls to the walls about Sal and completly ignored the fact a vote for you accomplishes the same thing.

If you come back wolf I suggest people look at alan, maybe he is a duke/cultise or something

He really hasn't 'ignored' it. He's made it clear that he doesn't plan to vote for me. Therefore, if you want to get him to switch off Telle, it would have to be to Saldana.

Me and Sal are BFF's in real life but if I thought he was the best candidate I would vote for him.

The only day I refuse to vote him is day 1 unless it is to save myself.

if you are alive tonight then I'd assume you are the fake seer (or a wolf role) as the wolves would have scanned you w/ the scorcer to find out the truth on night 1 or 2 and if you were the true seer you'd be dead by this point.

And your making far too much out of the fact that I wasn't at the machine and COULDN't have jumped on it until I went back to re-read it. Christ man is is so freaking hard to accept that you're wrong and change your thinking that you have to nitpick at how long I took to see your post and respond to it? holy shit. THAT should tel you how off base you're being, you're fucking obsesseive.

yeah, good point about the sorcerer.

If Alan ISN'T the duke (which I still think he is), then how would his vote have resulted in a no lynch day 1?

St. C - question. Does the scorcer have to choose what they are scanning for?

i.e. if they said scan Lathum as the cultist, but he's the seer they would only get a result that said he's not the cultist.

thanks

RETRO-RENDER!!!

I have no doubt alan is the duke.

Howeven, Cronin was very clear there were roles with other abilities not published.

It seems Alan has his own agenda

Someone in a WW game, obsessive? :eek:

Anyway, was there a reason you didn't want to vote for Saldana when Alan mentioned it to Lathum 20 minutes before mentioning it to you?

The sorcerer picks a player to scan. The result will either be: Seer, cultist, or neither. Note also the sorcerer gets the same result for fake seer as real seer.

I'm biased, because I've agreed with Alan this whole game, but I think you're reaching here. Duke is listed under villager roles, and I don't think there are extra win conditions here -- I think that messes with the flow of cronin's draft idea.

Sorry, I'm just a tad overwhelmed today and Alan's being a butt-munch over afew minutes of time that make no damned difference either way. he's realizing he's been wrong here and for whatever reason he's clinging to his theories and looking for whatever little excuse to do so that he can.

ok, Deep breathe, end ranting, calm 2008 RendeR back in place.

Well I'm out until probably just past deadline. I need to get some food and then I have an appointment with my psychologist. Hopefully I won't find myself dead when I get back :)

hmmm

Alans ole maybe?

this seems familar to me.... but i cant find him saying it!

heh, thanks!

that may jst mean he can add a certain number of votes,.... or somethign.

should say Role

unless alan is a bullfighter

I don't think he was being a "butt-munch" about it. He seemed pretty cordial and understanding, based on a re-read of his post.

I'll ignore Render's swearing at me as my point to him still stands.

I've already said when I revealed that my role behaves a bit differently than you might expect and I still won't give the wolves the benefit of knowing what I can do, however I am the duke, which is a good guy role as listed by Cronin. Anyone trying to say otherwise has a different agenda.

Bleh, sorry I got out of hand guys. I'm just being pulled in too many directions today and my nerves are quite frazzeled

and you said butt munch :)

Catching up on what I missed while away.. yeah Lathum you're trying to mislead everyone to my point about you. At the time it was either a 3 way tie or something close (like Saldana being one vote behind). I said multiple times that I have no problem with a Saldana lynch but don't want to see Passacaglia lynched at least today. I told you if you so badly wanted to save Telle as you were indicating by threatening and attacking me I gave you the chance to move your vote to Saldana. Your vote + my vote on Sal would have easily put Telle out of immediate harm.

It seemed pretty clear to me that people were less worried about saving Telle than they were about trying to discredit me however.

And the fact that you have some personal agenda in this game is rather obvious and trumps the "I am a good guy role so I should be trusted" commentery.

YOU cannot be trusted unless we know what the agenda is and decide its in our best interests. Can you at least acknowledge that?


And I do apologize for the bitching, it wasn't necessary.

Out of curiosity who is my personal agenda with? Telle or Saldana or Lathum or you or whom?

This might be the first time in a while that anyone has accused me of being personal in a WW game :)

Can you give more information...not direct quotes, obviously, but what kind of wording???

i think hes implying that you have some scondary motive, like a major victory condidiotn.....

Then why are you defending pass? It was pretty obvious that many of us saw something worth lynching in his attitude and actions, so why are you, as the duke, defending him? You expect us all to give you definitives and reasons for what we're doing and have done and to take action to satisfy YOUR needs, its time to pony up.

Why are you defending Pass so strongly?

As for trying to discredit you, we're not, what we're seeing is you plaing some cloak and dagger game with us to get things your way, YOU are discrediting yourself. YOU are bringing the suspicion on YOURSELF, so defend your position. Stop the smoke and mirroes and tell us WTF you're on about.

personal agenda as in the game Alan, not personally. Stop tryin to confuse things even more than you have been.

I am the duke, and I win with the villagers.


You can see in the rules, my role is listed with the villagers. Anyone who is arguing otherwise is doing nothing more then trying to wreck a future villager COT from forming with doubt.

sndvls did a good job of giving an example

ok, now I believe you.

Great idea, we should just have all of the seers and bodyguard and everyone reveal on day 1 of every game. Since my trying to protect what I feel might be various hidden roles isn't a good thing here. I am getting tired of everyone trying to ask me to map out every move for the wolves. Some things just don't work very well if you don't catch people by suprise.

Then explain your actions because you're not acting normal. you're not always this stubborn and non-communicative. you're holding back information and thats not going to cut it.

dola- i think the Duke role is a prime choice for other abilities/ win conditions since once they are cleared as duke they tend to coast along

Have we ever played together? I am pretty sure that St.Cronin just spit out whatever drink he is drinking.

that would be a brandy old fashioned.

he likes them ALOT

:lol:

hes drinkign brandy at noon?

From wikipedia:

Ok, you've got two choices then:

1: come outwith ENOUGH information that we HAVE to trust you and can move forward

2: shut the hell up and stop confusing the rest of us.

Can you NOT understand that you're mucking up the entire situation with your "I can't tell you anything" bull? Come ON alan, stop acting like you think you know something. Your theories are not worth the lives of the villagers, not in this game and especially not after our first two days worth of losses.

You guys sure fight a lot for two people with their vote on the same person.

OK...trusting you, for now...

UNVOTE TELLE
VOTE SALDANA

If people don't want to vote with me, they don't have to. I'm not the one saying how stupid I must be for wanting to vote for someone else. I haven't been the one cussing, insulting and such today. I simply stated the two people I would like the lynch between today myself.

See the difference is people shouldn't have any reason to suspect my agenda like you and Lathum and Saldana keep trying to throw out there. They know I am good. Yes I might be mistaken or I might be correct, but it is not because of an agenda.. There is no one else in this game that can be said about.

*sigh* I've never seen you be this assinine in the face of overwhelming support to the contrary, yet you persist.

You know what. I'm done for today, I'll read up tomorrow. I'm fed up with trying to beat the truth into/out of Alan's thick skull today. He's wrong, he knows he wrongs and he'd rather spin me up and play games with the life of a villager than simply ove on to a more viable theory.

Bye.

wow I totally made that crap up too

Go Wisconsin!

I received this off-site, am posting it for him:

An hour before deadline and only 4 people in the thread????

Wow.

Not only that, no OlieRage? Come on, join the fun!

I think I pissed everyone off enough to leave me alone :cool:

yeah, its really dead!

I understand what you mean - I have suspicions about all 3 of the leading vote getters, but there's no real hard evidence on any of them. I may move my vote around just to keep it close enough to see what happens.

It's also Friday afternoon - I am done right at deadline so I won't be online til later tonight :)

I have my vote on someone other than the two main candidates. I don't think I'll move my vote to Telle as I don't see her as being more likely to be a wolf.

Which of the four of us are you forgetting?