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Ksyrup 07-25-2007 10:15 AM

If the Tigers don't trade for some relievers, they are in serious trouble. Even Rodney coming back isn't going to help all that much, and I wouldn't bank on Zumaya by September 1. Makay McBride sucks, Jason Grilli is nothing more than a cast-off...this team is in serious trouble without a decent bullpen. That's all they need, just 2-3 guys in front of Jones who can hold a 7-1 lead.

Bad-example 07-25-2007 12:07 PM

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...PGOUR6GQ01.DTL

An interesting article on Bonds today in the Chronicle.

dawgfan 07-25-2007 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad-example (Post 1510361)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...PGOUR6GQ01.DTL

An interesting article on Bonds today in the Chronicle.

Good stuff. In addition to all the points he makes in that article, I think the future of "performance-enhancement" is going to further muddy the waters of what is "fair" and what is "cheating". I'm also certain that as this generation of players gets older and starts writing memoirs, we're going to see more confessions, admissions and accusations of who was juicing.

For me, the steroid controversy can't take away the fact that Bonds is one of the best hitters in the history of the game.

Crapshoot 07-25-2007 05:48 PM

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=6497

Another good read.

dawgfan 07-25-2007 09:09 PM

Questionable move by the Brewers, trading 3 pitching prospects to San Diego for Scott Linebrink.

Linkebrink has been a very good setup guy for the Padres, but he's slipped a bit this year, and the guys they got back from Milwaukee have some real promise. I'm not really sure why Milwaukee traded for Linebrink without giving Joe Thatcher a shot first; he's posted very, very good numbers thus far in his career in the minors (not sure why he hasn't seen the bigs yet frankly). Instead, Thatcher goes to San Diego along with a very good SP prospect in Will Inman and a fair SP prospect in Steve Garrison.

I like this move from a San Diego perspective.

mauchow 07-25-2007 09:12 PM

Cubs look to be ONE game back of the brewers in the loss column.

sterlingice 07-26-2007 08:05 AM

Royals with a complete trainwreck of a series so far with the Yankees :(

30K, 39K, and 28K for a midweek series and not a giant pile of Yankees fans either, the team was generating some serious buzz in KC and getting people excited.

Unfortunately, Odalis Perez pitched like Odalis Perez Monday. Scott Elarton pitched his way out of town Tuesday. And the offense couldn't get anything going last night so Buddy Bell left Meche in an inning too long (pitch 120 was ARod's 499th career homer, making the game 5-1 and out of reach).

SI

sterlingice 07-26-2007 08:07 AM

Speaking of the trade dealine, lots of spare parts for sale. Mark Grudzelanek, Reggie Sanders, Octavio Dotel, and David Riske to name a few.

SI

Logan 07-26-2007 08:10 AM

Interesting story I heard on Mike and Mike today, courtesy of Elias...

When the Yankees continue their rain-postponed game vs Baltimore in the next couple weeks, A-Rod is due to hit 2nd. If he homers in that at bat, or later in the game should it continue longer, that HR will be dated June 28th or whenever the game originally occurred. Meaning, his HR last night will officially be his 500th HR. The ball landed in the grass past the right-center fence where no one besides someone within the stadium could get to it.

Ksyrup 07-26-2007 09:26 AM

Jason Kendall is hitting .067 since he joined the Cubs.

MikeVic 07-26-2007 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1511135)
Jason Kendall is hitting .067 since he joined the Cubs.


But the real question is how Julio Franco is doing.

Ksyrup 07-26-2007 09:42 AM

He's hitting .174 with the Braves. He's well on his way to 2,585 hits.

MikeVic 07-26-2007 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1511162)
He's hitting .174 with the Braves. He's well on his way to 2,585 hits.


Boo, you're just full of bad news today.

Chief Rum 07-26-2007 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1511135)
Jason Kendall is hitting .067 since he joined the Cubs.


Glad to see he's recovered some of his stroke since leaving the A's.

Ksyrup 07-27-2007 03:06 PM

CLEVELAND -- Kenny Lofton returned for his third stint with Cleveland -- and another playoff run -- on Friday as the Texas Rangers traded the 40-year-old outfielder to the Indians for minor-league catcher Max Ramirez.

LloydLungs 07-27-2007 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1511135)
Jason Kendall is hitting .067 since he joined the Cubs.


Rob Bowen was hitting .065 as a Cub. Upgrade!

Neither can touch future HOFer Koyie Hill at .173, however.

MikeVic 07-27-2007 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1511135)
Jason Kendall is hitting .067 since he joined the Cubs.


He was 2-for-4 yesterday!

miami_fan 07-27-2007 07:44 PM

Well that was quick
 
Quote:

PHILADELPHIA -- The Phillies didn't waste any time filling their need for a second baseman, acquiring Tadahito Iguchi from the White Sox on Friday for Minor League right-hander Michael Dubee.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Buccaneer 07-27-2007 07:50 PM

I'm still praying the Pads will get Tex or Dunn. (But the way they've been playing lately, it'll just mean losing 7-6 instead of 7-1).

Atocep 07-28-2007 02:28 PM

There's a rumor that Teixeira to the Braves is done and sitting on Selig's desk waiting approval because of some financial issues in the deal.

If its true, the Braves send Saltalamacchia, Elvis Andrus, and Matt Harrison to the Rangers in exhange for Teixeira.

johnnyshaka 07-28-2007 02:42 PM

Ryan Braun is an absolute beast...MY GOD!!!

The Brewers are going to be a very good team for a very long time if they can keep this group together.

Logan 07-28-2007 04:47 PM

If it is true, and I won't need to see Saltalamacchia play my Mets 19 times a year for the next decade, I'll be ecstatic.

Young Drachma 07-28-2007 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad-example (Post 1510361)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...PGOUR6GQ01.DTL

An interesting article on Bonds today in the Chronicle.


Thanks for this.

sterlingice 07-28-2007 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1511056)
Interesting story I heard on Mike and Mike today, courtesy of Elias...

When the Yankees continue their rain-postponed game vs Baltimore in the next couple weeks, A-Rod is due to hit 2nd. If he homers in that at bat, or later in the game should it continue longer, that HR will be dated June 28th or whenever the game originally occurred. Meaning, his HR last night will officially be his 500th HR. The ball landed in the grass past the right-center fence where no one besides someone within the stadium could get to it.


Isn't that kindof how it should be with the Royals personnel giving the ball to him or the HOF rather than having it up on ebay?

SI

mauchow 07-28-2007 05:58 PM

Braun Rules! But the Brewers Co Co cho chokes again.

sterlingice 07-28-2007 06:40 PM

:( Dang, Brewers need even more bullpen help

SI

Bearcat729 07-29-2007 12:21 PM

The Reds acquired infielder Jorge Cantu, outfielder Shaun Cumberland and cash from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for right-hander Calvin Medlock, left-hander Brian Shackelford and future considerations on Saturday.

I'm not sure why they made this trade.

mauchow 07-29-2007 02:41 PM

The Cubs up 4-0. Zambrano goes 3 for 4. Wait, I mean, he pitched 7 1/3 innings, 2 hits, couple a walks and leaves probably because of a little swelling in the ankle from a line drive he deflected to allow Ramirez to make a bare handed play to throw out the runner by a millisecond.

Nice overall game, should be 6-0 too but they called Soriano's hit a double when it clearly cleared the fence. Fat ass Joe West didn't feel like moving from his second base position to get a clear look at it. Fat ass. Fat ass.

Lathum 07-30-2007 04:27 PM

Anyone seen the Clemens cingular commercial?

Pretty damn funny

sterlingice 07-30-2007 08:03 PM

Also, if the Teixeira deal gets done, apparently Dotel to the Braves for Davies will be next. Don't know a whole lot about Kyle Davies these days- anyone with some thoughts? There were also rumors about a Wladimir Balentien for Seattle being offered. And then some stuff about Moore setting the market kindof high by asking for some crazies from the Dodgers but it never sounded like that was serious talk.

EDIT: Then again, maybe this trade isn't going to happen after all.

Royals still looking to unload Grudzelanek and Sanders as well. Hopefully get some takers.

SI

sterlingice 07-30-2007 10:11 PM

Meche gets touched for 2 in the first but pretty much cruises the rest of the way... and the Royals give him 1 run and 2 hits of support. Same old, same old.

G. Meche 7.0 7 2 2 1 6 0 3.70


SI

Chief Rum 07-30-2007 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1514524)
Anyone seen the Clemens cingular commercial?

Pretty damn funny


Yeah, saw it Saturday. Hilarious.

DaddyTorgo 07-31-2007 03:37 PM

cnnsi.com and espn are reporting that the red sox have agreed to a deal with texas for Eric Gagne. Gagne to Boston, Boston picks up his incentive payments as guarenteed salary, David Murphy, Kason Gabbard and engel beltre to the rangers

the obvious question this brings to mind is: wtf?? who's going to close? Gagne? Paps? Is this a way of freeing up Paps to put him back in the rotation (which would make me tear my hair out). Because I don't see either of the two being happy pitching the 8th. although if one of them would be it'd be amazing. a dual-closer setup...1 closer in the 8th...1 in the 9th.

don't know if it can work though. might be too much ego involved

Karlifornia 07-31-2007 04:32 PM

I'm pretty sure Gagne is gonna be the set up man..

In much more exciting news, the Giants traded Matt Morris to Pittsburgh, who will incur the rest of Morris' contract...Yes!!!! A-Rod 2008!

MikeVic 07-31-2007 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 1515256)
cnnsi.com and espn are reporting that the red sox have agreed to a deal with texas for Eric Gagne. Gagne to Boston, Boston picks up his incentive payments as guarenteed salary, David Murphy, Kason Gabbard and engel beltre to the rangers

the obvious question this brings to mind is: wtf?? who's going to close? Gagne? Paps? Is this a way of freeing up Paps to put him back in the rotation (which would make me tear my hair out). Because I don't see either of the two being happy pitching the 8th. although if one of them would be it'd be amazing. a dual-closer setup...1 closer in the 8th...1 in the 9th.

don't know if it can work though. might be too much ego involved


Ward-Henke, ftw.

molson 07-31-2007 04:57 PM

Gagne had to waive a no-trade to go to Boston, so he has to know he's just going to setup.

Of course, that's no guarantee everyone's happy forever.

Brillig 07-31-2007 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1515277)
I'm pretty sure Gagne is gonna be the set up man..

In much more exciting news, the Giants traded Matt Morris to Pittsburgh, who will incur the rest of Morris' contract...Yes!!!! A-Rod 2008!


Too bad we couldn't dump Zito :p . And no, A-Rod isn't coming, keep dreaming.

digamma 07-31-2007 05:12 PM

Suite seats. Chavez Ravine. Tonight.

Brillig 07-31-2007 05:19 PM

Barry Bonds. 0 for 1. Pinch-hit ground out. Tonight.

miami_fan 07-31-2007 07:27 PM

I am sure you have to take these things with a grain of salt but is Mark Teixeira really worth this? Or has Tom Hicks not learn his lesson?

Quote:

Rangers owner Tom Hicks revealed Tuesday that he offered Mark Teixeira an eight-year, $140 million contract two weeks ago.
The Rangers became more intent on trading him after he turned down the proposal. "I thought we made enough of an offer to keep him a Ranger for life," Hicks said. :I'm disappointed he turned it down, but I think we did everything we could to keep him. Now, we've got some very good young players coming here and I feel with some good moves and free-agent signings, we can be a championship team." Jul. 31 - 4:16 pm et


Karlifornia 07-31-2007 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillig (Post 1515314)
Barry Bonds. 0 for 1. Pinch-hit ground out. Tonight.


Bonds is in the lineup tonight....I'm kinda hoping he breaks the record in LA....I would find it hilarious.

Crapshoot 07-31-2007 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1515387)
Bonds is in the lineup tonight....I'm kinda hoping he breaks the record in LA....I would find it hilarious.


Me too. Every moralizing blowhard that gets pissed off is a bonus point, but to do it at Dodger stadium? That's just awesome.

Brillig 07-31-2007 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1515387)
Bonds is in the lineup tonight....I'm kinda hoping he breaks the record in LA....I would find it hilarious.


I never believe it until I see him take the field. He might fall over his recliner and break a hip. :p

MrBug708 07-31-2007 08:49 PM

So if he ties it tonight, he'll get a nice 5 game rest

Mizzou B-ball fan 08-01-2007 08:06 AM

Pretty nice deal for KC. They get a good starting pitcher prospect. Also, Dotel states in the KC paper today that he's definitely interested in returning to KC as a free agent in the off-season if KC can make a good offer. Not surprising since he offered to sign a long term deal with KC. Given that KC has over 30 million dollars in free payroll available for this off-season, I wouldn't be shocked to see him back in KC next year.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/213679.html

sterlingice 08-01-2007 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1515724)
Pretty nice deal for KC. They get a good starting pitcher prospect. Also, Dotel states in the KC paper today that he's definitely interested in returning to KC as a free agent in the off-season if KC can make a good offer. Not surprising since he offered to sign a long term deal with KC. Given that KC has over 30 million dollars in free payroll available for this off-season, I wouldn't be shocked to see him back in KC next year.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/213679.html


The $30M in free payroll is really a misnomer. You need to listen to Soren one of the days when they hash out the numbers- it's a good 30 minutes of radio. After options and arbitration, the Royals have about $7-$10M to maintain the current payroll and around $12M if they move up to $70M. And it sounds like they're going to go shopping for a bat in the offseason.

SI

MikeVic 08-01-2007 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan (Post 1515381)
I am sure you have to take these things with a grain of salt but is Mark Teixeira really worth this? Or has Tom Hicks not learn his lesson?


Wow, why would Mark Teixeira reject that offer??

Lathum 08-01-2007 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic (Post 1515754)
Wow, why would Mark Teixeira reject that offer??


Because he knows the Rangers will never win anything and he is from Atlanta area , went to school at Georgia Tech, etc...

MikeVic 08-01-2007 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1515759)
Because he knows the Rangers will never win anything and he is from Atlanta area , went to school at Georgia Tech, etc...


Oh ok... makes more sense then.

I guess this means less of a role for Julio Franco then, eh?

Atocep 08-01-2007 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1514700)
Don't know a whole lot about Kyle Davies these days- anyone with some thoughts?


Davies was Atlanta's top pitching prospect at one time but his "prospectdom" has been falling off each year since he was in AA. He's seen more as a back of the rotation type starter now than a frontline guy. Considering the Royals didn't do much to get him, I think its a pretty good deal. Best bet is he develops into a league average innings eater at low cost, which certainly has value.

Atocep 08-01-2007 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic (Post 1515754)
Wow, why would Mark Teixeira reject that offer??


Scott Boras.

Boras never signs extentions with his clients, they always test free agency. Being from Atlanta had nothing to do with it, Teixeira is looking for the most money he can possibly get or Boras wouldn't be his agent.

lighthousekeeper 08-01-2007 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic (Post 1500776)
I don't know, bad karma. Franco transcends a normal baseball player. Any team that cuts him doesn't get my support. :D


Now with Atlanta and NYM both cutting Franco and therefore getting the bad karma hex, the Phillies are cleared to take the NL East title.

Chief Rum 08-01-2007 11:42 PM

Oh heck yeah! Nice shot, Gary!

mauchow 08-01-2007 11:43 PM

Cubs first place.

larrymcg421 08-01-2007 11:47 PM

Texeira with a HR and 4 RBI's in his Braves debut.

Chief Rum 08-02-2007 12:15 AM

Wow, great game going on in Seattle. First and second place AL West teams going at it, winner takes the game and the series. Angels came back to tie it off of Putz in the ninth, and now we're in extras. Seattle just tried to beat the Angels at their own game with a suicide squeeze, but it backfired when Lopez just flat missed the bunt.

If anyone has the Extra Innings package, come check it out.

Chief Rum 08-02-2007 12:50 AM

lol ,Vlad was completely fooled on that pitch. He was falling away from the plate like heat was gunning inside, but it was actually a low, outside fastball. So he's falling away, still chooses to swing at it (!), basically throws his bat out there, catches the ball with the tip of the head and bangs a soft liner into center for his fourth hit. Heh, that's so Vlad.

dawgman, if you're around, I really like this Morrow kid. Great fastball with movement, and he knows how to locate it. He'll need more than that to lost longer in this league (but he's a former first rounder, so I'm sure he has more, just hasn't shown it tonight), but he's looking terrific tonight.

Booj 08-02-2007 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1516511)
Wow, great game going on in Seattle. First and second place AL West teams going at it, winner takes the game and the series. Angels came back to tie it off of Putz in the ninth, and now we're in extras. Seattle just tried to beat the Angels at their own game with a suicide squeeze, but it backfired when Lopez just flat missed the bunt.

If anyone has the Extra Innings package, come check it out.


Watching the game in the East... approaching 2 am... I was falling asleep in the 8th, but found a second wind and haven't missed a pitch since the Matthews homerun.

Chief Rum 08-02-2007 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booj (Post 1516528)
Watching the game in the East... approaching 2 am... I was falling asleep in the 8th, but found a second wind and haven't missed a pitch since the Matthews homerun.


Yeah, I coulda fallen asleep in the 8th, too, if I wasn't out here and it wasn't the Angels. I'm glad I didn't.

Booj 08-02-2007 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1516531)
Yeah, I coulda fallen asleep in the 8th, too, if I wasn't out here and it wasn't the Angels. I'm glad I didn't.


I'm glad I didn't as well... The Mariners have become my team since the Expos left. Thank you Sportsnet and MLB.TV :)

Chief Rum 08-02-2007 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booj (Post 1516536)
I'm glad I didn't as well... The Mariners have become my team since the Expos left. Thank you Sportsnet and MLB.TV :)


Boo! :D Obviously, I am an Angels fan. Sheesh, Spos to M's? What are you a glutton for punishment?

Good game by both teams. The M's deserved their win. I knew with all the chances both teams were getting, sooner or later, someone would finally push a run across.

MikeVic 08-02-2007 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper (Post 1516266)
Now with Atlanta and NYM both cutting Franco and therefore getting the bad karma hex, the Phillies are cleared to take the NL East title.


What, Atlanta cut him now?? They need that veteran leadership!

Maybe two teams in the same division cutting him cancels each other out... I need to go check the rules.

Booj 08-02-2007 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1516537)
Sheesh, Spos to M's? What are you a glutton for punishment?


Hey, at least I didn't stick with the Nationals ;)
I wanted a team in the AL, and a team that I couldn't be considered a bandwagon jumper (I made the switch before this season..). The Angels were up there due to all of their Expo connections but were a bit too successful.

dawgfan 08-02-2007 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1516526)
dawgman, if you're around, I really like this Morrow kid. Great fastball with movement, and he knows how to locate it. He'll need more than that to lost longer in this league (but he's a former first rounder, so I'm sure he has more, just hasn't shown it tonight), but he's looking terrific tonight.

Morrow has an electric arm for sure. Earlier in the season he basically had no command of his fastball - he was just throwing it up there and hoping it hit the strike zone. But because it was so good, he wasn't getting hit. He finally lost enough command (walking more than a guy per inning) and started to fatigue that his usage needed to be eased back, but recently his control has improved a great deal and his velocity is returning, plus he's mixing in a good splitter now as well.

He's a promising talent, and he's helped the bullpen this year, but I'm scared that he's going to get stuck as a reliever and never get a shot professionally to see if he can succeed as a starter. I'm not real excited about spending the #5 overall pick on a reliever, especially when the M's passed on Andrew Miller and Tim Lincecum.

Anyway, nice to see the M's pull that one out last night and stay only 3 back in the West. Will be interesting to see how Adam Jones does and how much the M's play him. There will be some delicate politics going on in the clubhouse, with Sexson being demoted to platoon status with Broussard and Jones likely to start taking playing time away from Ibanez and Vidro.

Jas_lov 08-02-2007 01:40 PM

Looks like the Yankees and White Sox are in for a slugfest. The 2nd inning took about an hour to play and 16 total runs were scored, which was the most in MLB history in the 2nd inning. Hopefully Jeff Karsens will be able to give the Yanks some quality innings, but I'm not counting on it.

molson 08-02-2007 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Booj (Post 1516536)
I'm glad I didn't as well... The Mariners have become my team since the Expos left. Thank you Sportsnet and MLB.TV :)


That's really depressing. I remember trying to figure out who my NFL team was going to be when the Patriots seemed bound for St. Louis. Things worked out since then though.

MikeVic 08-03-2007 02:06 PM

Hah, the Braves have said if no one picks up Franco, they want him back as a coach of some kind. Always looking for a way to get that karma back.

Lathum 08-03-2007 02:42 PM

Can the Mets please get one gad damn clutch hit. Zambrano has 7 walks in 5 innings and the Mets can't make him pay! For whatever reason Marlon Anderson is hitting 5th, to me you can't be considered a contender with Marlon Anderson hitting 5th, no wonder Delgado has walked all 3 times up.

Logan 08-03-2007 02:47 PM

You're really upset about Anderson hitting 5th when David Newhan, who was struggling in AAA 2 weeks ago, is hitting 2nd? When you play without your 2nd, 3rd, and 6th hitter, a guy like Anderson is forced to hit 5th.

In other news...Zambrano is going to kill my real team and my fantasy team's WHIP for the week.

And Newhan almost kills Reyes when chasing down a fly ball. Gonna be a good day.

MikeVic 08-03-2007 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1517631)
Can the Mets please get one gad damn clutch hit. Zambrano has 7 walks in 5 innings and the Mets can't make him pay! For whatever reason Marlon Anderson is hitting 5th, to me you can't be considered a contender with Marlon Anderson hitting 5th, no wonder Delgado has walked all 3 times up.


Do I have to bring up who they should sign...? :cool:

Logan 08-03-2007 02:53 PM

Interesting...Zambrano out with an injury after giving up a solo shot to Castro.

So yeah...Lo Duca's a FA at the end of the year. Do we role the dice with Castro? Gotta figure he's eventually going to leave for a starting job.

Lathum 08-03-2007 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1517641)
Interesting...Zambrano out with an injury after giving up a solo shot to Castro.

So yeah...Lo Duca's a FA at the end of the year. Do we role the dice with Castro? Gotta figure he's eventually going to leave for a starting job.


I say so. LoDuca is showing signs of breaking down and Castro is above average defensivly and shows good pop.

stevew 08-03-2007 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper (Post 1516266)
Now with Atlanta and NYM both cutting Franco and therefore getting the bad karma hex, the Phillies are cleared to take the NL East title.


Phillies traded him back in 83'ish. That's why they haven't won since then.

Karlifornia 08-04-2007 03:15 AM

Neifi Perez got suspended 80 games for another positive test for banned stimulants....a funny quote about it from McCovey Chronicles:

"He just couldn't resist the powers they gave him"

dawgfan 08-07-2007 07:00 PM

Eric Byrnes extended for 3 years/$30M? He's a decent player an all, but $10M/year for him?

Atocep 08-09-2007 03:18 PM

Rick Ankiel was called up today by the Cardinals. Good to see. He's probably a better option than Edmonds at this stage.

MikeVic 08-09-2007 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1517947)
Neifi Perez got suspended 80 games for another positive test for banned stimulants....a funny quote about it from McCovey Chronicles:

"He just couldn't resist the powers they gave him"


Haha, oh that Neifi. Didn't he read someone's posts here that said the power just turned his blooper singles into lineouts or flyouts?

larrymcg421 08-11-2007 06:15 PM

Can someone explain to me how Papelbon got a save today? He came in to get the final out of a 6-2 victory. I always thought the criteria was a three run lead or you had to pitch three innings. Has the rule changed? If you can get a save by getting one out when the tying run isn't even at the plate, they might as well just scrap the category altogether.

MikeVic 08-11-2007 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 1522646)
Can someone explain to me how Papelbon got a save today? He came in to get the final out of a 6-2 victory. I always thought the criteria was a three run lead or you had to pitch three innings. Has the rule changed? If you can get a save by getting one out when the tying run isn't even at the plate, they might as well just scrap the category altogether.


Man, if they don't give him a save here, there's be an ego fight with him and Gagne! That's the reason.

dawgfan 08-11-2007 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Save Rule
The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four of the following conditions: (a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team; (b) He is not the winning pitcher; (c) He is credited with at least a third of an inning pitched; and (d) He satisfies one of the following conditions: (1) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; (2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces); or (3) He pitches for at least three innings.

The "Save" carries some value as a statistic, but it is also highly over-valued in today's game.

larrymcg421 08-11-2007 06:39 PM

Quote:

(2) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batters he faces);

This is how he qualifies and they really should do away with this one.

LloydLungs 08-11-2007 08:36 PM

Way to often you see some poor middle relief schlub get out of a bases-loaded jam in the 7th, only to have the cushy pampered closer come in with the bases empty to start the ninth, get his three cushy outs, and get his cushy save while everybody slobbers praise all over him.

I would just eliminate the save stat entirely and just assign holds all around. That's what I would do, but I would have a bounty put on my head by agents shortly afterwards.

sterlingice 08-12-2007 09:02 PM

Anyone care to explain why Matt Stairs was batting leadoff for the Blue Jays tonight against the Royals? Don't get me wrong- we loved the guy here in KC but he's not exactly your typical leadoff hitter. He's got a little pop, his OBP is solid but not spectacular, and, well, how do I put this delicately... he's one of those "I'm in shape! Round is a shape" sort-of-guys.

SI

Atocep 08-12-2007 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1523351)
Anyone care to explain why Matt Stairs was batting leadoff for the Blue Jays tonight against the Royals? Don't get me wrong- we loved the guy here in KC but he's not exactly your typical leadoff hitter. He's got a little pop, his OBP is solid but not spectacular, and, well, how do I put this delicately... he's one of those "I'm in shape! Round is a shape" sort-of-guys.

SI


Probably lack of other options. The only other decent hitters they had in the lineup were Rios, Thomas, Overbay, Well, and Glaus.

From that group it'd be a coin flip between Stairs and Rios.

Travis 08-13-2007 12:12 AM

Stairs is hitting leadoff because he's been very steady this year. Typically it's Reed Johnson there, but he's been a bit "off" since returning from injury. Ideally they'd like to go Johnson, Rios, Wells, Glaus, Thomas, Overbay. It's just hard not to give Stairs the plate appearances with how well he's played, and while he doesn't have ideal speed, it's been a while since the Jays have played a style that utilizes the prototypical leadoff hitter.

Karlifornia 08-13-2007 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LloydLungs (Post 1522745)
Way to often you see some poor middle relief schlub get out of a bases-loaded jam in the 7th, only to have the cushy pampered closer come in with the bases empty to start the ninth, get his three cushy outs, and get his cushy save while everybody slobbers praise all over him.

I would just eliminate the save stat entirely and just assign holds all around. That's what I would do, but I would have a bounty put on my head by agents shortly afterwards.


I still don't think giving a hold to everyone is fair. The reliever that came into a pressure situation still doesn't get his due. I've thought hard for the past three minutes about a stat that would recognize the relievers who best clean up others' messes, but I'm at a loss.

SackAttack 08-13-2007 03:20 AM

Seems like inherited runs scored percentage would be the way to roll on that.

SackAttack 08-13-2007 03:21 AM

runs, runners, whatever. Stupid fingers.

larrymcg421 08-13-2007 09:57 AM

Actually, I'd say something like Potential Tying Runs Scored %

dawgfan 08-13-2007 01:20 PM

This is an area where Fangraphs really helps - I like to look at a reliever's gmLI and his WPA. His gmLI number will tell you how critical are the situations that the reliever has inherited on average, and his WPA will tell you how effective he's been.

Of course, this is all to esoteric and complex to ever really catch on in a big way. But I think it's probably the most accurate way of judging a reliever's effectiveness.

LloydLungs 08-13-2007 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1523479)
I still don't think giving a hold to everyone is fair. The reliever that came into a pressure situation still doesn't get his due. I've thought hard for the past three minutes about a stat that would recognize the relievers who best clean up others' messes, but I'm at a loss.


Well, the guy that gets out of the pressure situation still gets a hold. Not all holds would be created equally, and it's imperfect, but it's at least fairer than assigning a much more valued stat to something that isn't generally any more difficult to do. JJ Putz gave up a grand slam the other day and still got a SAVE! Gosh, thank goodness he was there!

dawgfan 08-13-2007 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LloydLungs (Post 1523917)
JJ Putz gave up a grand slam the other day and still got a SAVE!

Um, no, he didn't (get a save that is).

LloydLungs 08-13-2007 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 1523947)
Um, no, he didn't (get a save that is).


Yep, he did.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp...eamlb_chamlb_1

You come in with a five-run lead and the bases loaded, that's technically a "save situation." You can give up a granny and still get the save, which is exactly what happened. JJ Putz is an outstanding reliever but this is a great example of the preposterous nature of the save rule.

dawgfan 08-13-2007 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LloydLungs (Post 1523985)
Yep, he did.

OK, yeah, I guess that did fulfill the save rule requirements (and I agree that the tying run on deck part of the rule needs to go). What's weird though is that just an hour ago when I checked that box score on ESPN, it didn't list Putz with a save, but now it does (agreeing with the MLB box).

sterlingice 08-15-2007 09:16 PM

From the Royals Yahoo score tonight: "D. DeJesus singled to right, T. Pena Jr. to third, D. DeJesus scored on catcher G. Laird's throwing error, T. Pena Jr. out at home"

Also, draftee signing this year is an interesting story and we'll see how things shake out tonight. Still, it's a farce and needs to be fixed. Is $9M for a pitcher who has never thrown to a major league batter a good way to "build your team" as those large market fans so quick to decry smaller teams of doing? Slotting needs to happen much sooner rather than later but the compensation draft pick makes it interesting.

Rob Neyer was talking about how Boras acted during the JD Drew negotiations but didn't really go into details, just that he seemed horribly appalled. This seems to be a big year for him and it'd really be nice to see him do poorly. I mean, we all kindof know the big story about Boras but I wish he had elaborated about his coverage of the Phillies negotiations.

SI

DeToxRox 08-15-2007 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1525872)
From the Royals Yahoo score tonight: "D. DeJesus singled to right, T. Pena Jr. to third, D. DeJesus scored on catcher G. Laird's throwing error, T. Pena Jr. out at home"

Also, draftee signing this year is an interesting story and we'll see how things shake out tonight. Still, it's a farce and needs to be fixed. Is $9M for a pitcher who has never thrown to a major league batter a good way to "build your team" as those large market fans so quick to decry smaller teams of doing? Slotting needs to happen much sooner rather than later but the compensation draft pick makes it interesting.

Rob Neyer was talking about how Boras acted during the JD Drew negotiations but didn't really go into details, just that he seemed horribly appalled. This seems to be a big year for him and it'd really be nice to see him do poorly. I mean, we all kindof know the big story about Boras but I wish he had elaborated about his coverage of the Phillies negotiations.

SI


While absurd, if KC can pay for Meche, they should be able to pay for prospects too.

SackAttack 08-15-2007 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LloydLungs (Post 1523985)
Yep, he did.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp...eamlb_chamlb_1

You come in with a five-run lead and the bases loaded, that's technically a "save situation." You can give up a granny and still get the save, which is exactly what happened. JJ Putz is an outstanding reliever but this is a great example of the preposterous nature of the save rule.


Rule 10.17(c):

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLB Rules
The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.


I don't understand why that clause can't be somewhat modified to apply to save situations as well. Scorer can choose not to award a reliever the win if he sucks balls. Why doesn't he have that discretion when it comes to saves?

LloydLungs 08-15-2007 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 1525886)
I don't understand why that clause can't be somewhat modified to apply to save situations as well. Scorer can choose not to award a reliever the win if he sucks balls. Why doesn't he have that discretion when it comes to saves?


At the absolute least, this should be done. More common than the Putz incident is the classic "start the 9th with a three-run lead, give up two runs, still get the save" situation which happens somewhat routinely. Nobody should ever be rewarded with a save for posting an 18.00 ERA for the inning and blowing almost all of what was a fairly comfortable lead.

Again, the player's union/agents would never allow such a change. Gonna have to wait till I take over the world.

SackAttack 08-15-2007 09:48 PM

How did the balk rule get neutered? Was that something that had to be bargained, or did MLB do it unilaterally?

Used to be, you couldn't have any part of your pivot foot hanging off the rubber, and now you see guys like Santana and Penny barely touch the rubber with the pivot.

If they changed that unilaterally, why not the save rule?

sterlingice 08-15-2007 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 1525875)
While absurd, if KC can pay for Meche, they should be able to pay for prospects too.


But with a blanket statement like that, why not just draft and pay $10M for every pick since money is apparently no object. Great, you signed Porcello for $7M. For a high school pitcher. How's the track record of those? Even the "can't miss" ones?

That's also Gil "he of the 15, about to be 16 quality starts and a 3.90 ERA" Meche. I'm pretty sure that beats most of the guys out there last winter and 5/55 doesn't seem so crazy now. I didn't see Johan Santana on the market and Barry Zito walked away with how much?

I'm just saying, it's not as simple as "pay for prospects and build your team". With baseball prospects having such a high attrition rate, is putting a $5M egg in that farm basket the best way to spend money? Or is it better to spend that $5M on a $3M pick, $1M in development personnel, and $1M in Latin America scouting?

SI


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