PC Gamer review

Yeah, sorry, but that isn't a fix. We shouldn't need to have a checkbox that prevents all the teams in each league from making moves.

For starters, the AI should NEVER mess with your own roster unless you give it permission to do so. The transactionsin terms of the minors are improving, but again, the moves still happen to frequently. I'm still hopeful though. The memory issues do need to be tackled.

TroyF

Any chance to have DFA an option to have it disabled?

I'm not quite sure if my problem was roster set related or game related yet.

Wow. I'll need to look at that in my current league. The way that check box was positioned, I just assumed it was on a team only basis. Thanks for getting back on that.

I read this and agree with it it totally. Puresim is for histiry buffs who want to play out a season 1899. Mogul is for modern era play and future stuff. OOTP was always for super staters but know you should have a masochistic tendency as well.

Well, I jumped the gun a bit after downloading the new patch. I looked around and it fixed a few things that were bugging me and so I started to delve into the game and play.

That is when I realized how bad it truly was. I'm a former OOTP fanboy and still stand by 6.51 as a great game despite a few flaws. However, OOTP 2006 is just a bad game. You can sugar coat it with "it's re-written" or "it's better for the long haul", but it's just a horrible game right now.

The more I moved around, the more I realized how completely moronic the interface is and how ridiculously difficult easy moves have become. Simply setting yourself up to run an organization without computer interference is a huge task. Add a general manager, be a commissioner, be a manager, and so on.

I gave it a shot, I was happy with the changes. However, diving into this game has just been a nightmare. Sadly, this seems to be the new direction of the game. PC Gamer said it best, SI took a great game and put their face on it and ruined it. It's time to shift to another baseball sim, and I shutter to think how bad OOTP sales will be next year (I can't imagine anyone pre-ordering).

Indeed, not a pretty picture...

Fixed. To all of the developers that think the Kitchen-Sink approach is the new trend, please play FBCB over and over.

Personally, I'm happier with this version - bugs and all - than the older versions of OOTP, because while those always had an immediate immersive quality to them, they always hit their peak and after a few months, I wouldn't pick them up anymore.

With OOTP 2006, I'm sure that I'll play it months from now, especially after they fix the lingering issues and also, I think the next version will be that much better because this experience will have taught them a ton.

The game appeals to a certain kind of text-simmer, as you alluded to and so..I think that while certain people may be turned off, a lot of other people will be pleased if they actually make some major fixes. And I'm a lot more confident that longer term, SI would be able to ensure that the game gets better than say, if they were not involved in the process.

That's just me... I guess we'll see.

I agree also. I've been playing OOTP since version 3, and the past couple of iterations I've spent 99% of my time using the game for online leagues only. The changes made in OOTP2006 and the direction that the game appears to be going seems to me like it will make for a much more enjoyable solo sim experience.

I am tire of the excuses because they needed to re-write the code for the new engine.

Re-writing the code is not the same as re-writing the logic. The same problems from past versions still exist in this version(and in some cases are worse).

These are not excuses, these are facts ...whether you choose to agree with them or not is up to you. In order to move the game forward, Markus felt the game needed to be built from the ground up.

That part might be true about the re-writing of the code.

But re-writing the logic seems the same still with the AI from past versions. I surprise with a new engine, he didnt expand more on the logic part.

I'm not a programmer nor do I dislike SI by any means (love EHM), but I really don't understand how the AI couldn't be fixed in 6.5 for v7 AND do some interface cleanup, add the cato like almanac, etc..??

Markus had his reasons as stated, but I'm dumbfounded by that last statement.

I haven't tried the other 2, but I am having a blast playing Mogul after starting a modern day career.

Same here. I ended up downloading Mogul, found it much improved from last year (which I liked more than most people). It does what Mogul does well and seems to have improved in critical areas (real R/L splits, improved AI management). For the price, I think it is definitely worth it.

First of all, it's "shudder". I only mention that because somebody is bound to & we might as well get it out of the way.

More importantly, don't shudder that prospect, embrace it. Having an abysmal product bomb is the best thing that could happen to the genre right now IMO, and having it happen to one that's got a relatively high profile is even better in the long run.

Maybe then we'll see more attention paid by developers to putting products on the street when they're ready instead of multi-generation paid beta testing (or in some cases what appears to be alpha testing).

As long as consumers prove willing to pay for crappy products, that's what we're bound to keep getting.

True. God if only EA could have Madden game flop like this we might finally get a new decent pro football game.

I am curious which of the three games is the best for playing the role of a wheeling and dealing GM ala Billy Bean or Theo Epstein. I'm leaning towards Mogul at this time. Does anyone know how it handles afging players progression especially for guys in the minors?

Does Mogul latest handle financial stuff and trades well?

Mogul does trades pretty well although its allowance for up to 15 players on a side gets it into trouble sometimes. I adopt a house rule cap of 5 players per team and that checks most of the abuse.

The financial side is pretty good with the exception of the D-Rays. That team is perpetually in debt without a chance. However, a quick edit of the league file seems to clear up that problem. Or you could just laugh at the D-Rays forever.

The latest patches have improved things, but the game still does some weird things with players in the minors. For some reason it pushes to many just drafted players straight into the majors (if they are REALLY good) or to AAA (if they are REALLY bad) which isn't the best.

Mogul isn't perfect, but its cheap, efficient, and does most things pretty well, IMO. I recommend it and it certainly is easier to play than OOTP or Puresim based on my experience with those demos.

OOTP 6.51 is still the best baseball sim for the price, IMHO.

Just turn of waivers, turn trades way down, and have some fun.

note: I am not trying to defend Markus, just giving you a reply based on my limited knowledge of programming from working closely with my brother on a website that required a *lot* of .asp code.

My guess is Markus was probably using the same base code he's been using for many versions now. Code that's had patches on top of patches on top of patches to fix other patches, etc. It was probably getting pretty bloated by this point, and i'm sure in his experience, then getting access to the SI source code, he learned many coding tips and tricks. However you can't always just go back in your code and 'clean it up', sometimes it's easier to re-write it from the ground up believe it or not.

That being said, I do believe he probably could have easily did what you suggested, which was simply clean up the UI and tweak things here and there. It's clear with 2006, that's not what he wanted to do. He wanted to greatly expand the game to have multi-leagues, blah blah (you know the list). There was probably no way he was going to do that by putting even more on the old ugly code he had, so the best way to go was to completely re-write the game with all his new programming knowledge he had gained over the years. By re-writing he probably not only made it easier to write such a massive game, but he was probably smart about it and left the door open to expand later on.

I seen it with the website we had, and many other games over the years. You can't just keep using the same old code. If you do, the updates become less impressive and won't justify the cost of a new version. I mean honestly, had he just slapped cato on 6.5 then tweaked the UI, people would tear him apart for charging $30 or so dollars for version 6.5+Cato. Some would be happy with that, but i'm sure some wouldn't have been.

I understand that. I just don't understand what building it from the ground up has to do with a completely disastrous interface and having to make every seemingly easy move take forever. Re-writes are supposed to make games play easier, this one is 10x harder than previous ones. When I say tougher, I don't mean the gameplay, I mean simple moves like trading a guy, re-ordering your minors, or heck, even being able to control a team without interference.

I understand the AI is going to be an on-going project, but I just don't see any end in sight for a game that has really just added more steps to otherwise easy tasks.

I am glad that you have included the comsumer as being part of the problem.

Bah, I knew I was too subtle.

Yah, I'll admit that it sailed right over my head until I went back & re-read it.

I think it's just that no one really reads cuervo's posts. He's posted like 6,000 times over at the FOBL boards and I have no idea what any of them said.

Good post, never thought about the "patch after patch" issues that could arise.

Ouch.

Cubs' star second baseman just tore a back muscle trying to stretch a single into a double...in spring training.

Done for the year.

Even better, he had just signed a 6-year, $96 million contract.

I bet talk radio in Chicago would be fun to listen to after that.

The next 1.0.2 build goes live today.

Added Features

- Added player status to player HTML report
- Added ability to generate depth charts based on a lineup
- Improved default league settings for included real leagues
- Added the option of being notified when a player is eligible to come off the DL
- Added potential minor league free agents to the possible free agents list of a team
- The game now remembers the last logged in manager in non-online games
- Amateur drafts now can have less than five rounds
- Added the option to easliy change a player's uniform number in the player profile screen
- Added uniform number to the player lists (delete \data\tables folder once in order to get the numbers to show up)
- The ballpark name is now editable in the team options screen
- Added league financial report
- The league structure can now be edited during the offseason and preseason
- Added the option to erase all player career stats
- The dialogs "Create reports" and "Upload league files" will save the settings automatically

Fixes / Improvements

#1408 - Fixed display problems with historical team abbreviations
#1442 - Fixed lines not wrapping in PbP
#1446 - Fixed manager age calculation when creating a game
#1480 - Fixed split season winner selection
#1640 - Fixed back-to-back bug
#1708 - Fixed AI messing with minor league lineups of human teams
#1772 - Awards winners report labeling has been incorrect
#1775 - Fixed bug in reports upload dialog and league files upload dialog: program couldn't change drive
#1809 - Fixed starting time of tiebreakers
#1825 - Fixed revenue sharing problems
#1839 - When adding a new team to the league, it will now automatically get team colors and a logo
#1842 - Fixed pitch counts after intentional walks
#1844, #1874 - Fixed problems with extra AB given after throwing errors
#1859 - Fixed coaches not leaving team when contract is up
#1865 - Tweaked pitch-out success
#1877 - Fixed player running speed creation in historical leagues using real modifiers
#1878 - Switching to ratings in the 40-man roster section of the transaction screen was fixed
#1891 - Fixed trade offers not expiring
#1913 - Fixed stats assignment to pitcher who did not really pitch
#1914 - Fixed bug with standings directly after playing games out
#1972 - Fixed problems with coaches/scouts payroll being displayed when disabled
#1973 - Fixed visiting the mound after bringing in a reliever
#1980 - Fixed player filter problems with PITCHER position
#1985 - base stealers now get credited with a SB on catcher throwing errors
#2002 - Attendence of spring games no longer show up in front office
#2012 - Pitcher run support and TB allowed are now properly tracked
#2019 - Fixed game log of CS of third base
#2023 - Fixed extension problem for players with minor league contracts
#2025 - Fixed switch hitters not adjusting after pitching change
#2033 - Quality starts are now properly recorded
#2041 - Templates are no longer overwritten, a warning is given instead
#2043 - Fixed blank lines in PbP
#2044 - Human team games are no longer simulated in the background when playing/watching a game
#2049 - Fixed bug where earning a 3-inning saves did not include earning a save opportunity
#2057 - Team batting strikeouts are now ranked properly in team leader lists
#2063 - Fixed minor league free agency with unaffiliated teams
#2083 - Position filters now longer reset after a transaction
#2089 - Fixed team power rankings report remembering positions
#2094 - MySQL errors in teams and cities have been fixed
#2096 - Player and coaches sorting has been incorrect with lower-case names
#2101 - Fixed position distribution on generated free agents
#2103 - Player lists on the transaction screen now remeber the scrollbar position
#2108 - Fixed problems with notifications when controlling all team
#2111 - Fixed problems of player names not displaying when wathcing allstar games
#2112 - Injured minor leaguers can now be DFA'ed from the 40-man roster
#2114 - Players on the 40-Man roster are no longer given a major league contract automatically
#2115 - Fixed problems with positions assigned in-game
#2118 - Fixed frequency of 3-1 plays
#2120 - Fixed teams offering job to the manager they just fired
#2123 - Fixed templates not saving inaugural draft option
#2132 - Fixed free agents showing up twice the roster export
#2138 - Fixed importing of wild pitches in historical leagues
#2139 - Fixed team count in database info page
#2141 - Fixed spot starter selection AI
#2144 - Improved intentional walk AI
#2145 - Fixed crashing while quick-scouting
#2149 - Fixed pinch-runners getting RBI after injury
#2150 - Fixed stats scope not working with last year stats splits
#2156 - Fixed crashing after watching a game and then playing a game
#2169 - Fixed talent change messages
#2173 - Improved PH for position players AI
#2177 - Fixed coaches experience calculation
#2180 - Tweaked ROY award selection
#2183 - Fixed spring game log not being deleted for some players
#2194 - Fixed revenue sharing sometimes displaying despite being disabled
#2197 - Fixed multiple pitcher of month awards bug
#2198 - Fixed rare reporting bug with milestone K's
#2204 - Fixed free agent contract demands during the regular season
#2239 - Fixed "ask AI to setup entire organization" players disappearing
#2258 - Players with a major league contract aquired via trade now automatically is put on the 40 man roster
#2260 - Fixed top performances report
#2263 - Fixed SB assignment on failed double steal
#2266 - Fixed a problem with saves
#2274 - Fixed age calculation aftet roster imports
#2275 - Fixed squeeze bunt AI
#2281 - Fixed pitches in player editor
#2280 - Switching to the opponents team in the in-game screen is now possible when forced to substitute a player
#2284 - Fixed problems recognizing free agency when set to less than 3 years
#2288 - Fixed pitching holds recording
#1982 - Fixed editing of media contracts
#2107 - Fixed FTP issues
#2306 - Fixed problems with low salary settings
#1879 - Leaderboard numberings bug has been fixed
#1886 - SQL dump table "games_score": fixed number of innings
#2133 - SQL dump table "league_history_fielding_stats": added year, league id, sub league id

Fixed plenty PbP and game log bugs
Free Agents now wait a bit longer before finally signing a contract
Files in tar archives will show the correct file dates and time after inflating
Fixed several FTP problems
Fixed memory leaks
Added several fields to SQL dump (league table: financial coefficient and start year)
Fixed: SQL dumps didn't contain decimal values
Fixed the years drop down problem on the HTML scores page/report for leagues starting in a year and ending in the following year
Fixed overall rating for relievers with high endurance
Tweaked AI free agent bidding, making it more agressive
Fixed the links bound to the big letters on the history players index page
Fixed several PbP bugs
Fixed problems of free agents being signed to 1 year contracts in offseason before free agents have filed
The first half of the first amateur draft round is now protected from compensation picks
Tweaked the gae & talent of hidden players
Fixed inaugural draft AI in historical leagues

Is the demo being upgraded as well? Is the 2 week limit being removed?

They now have a 30 day limit.

You can play up to 6 months of the season.

The 30 day limit will not reset after each new patch.

So best to wait until the last patch comes out to try the demo out.

That doesn't help those of us who became impatient and have already tried the demo.

I agree.

I'm still working with E-License on that!

Thanks. I am hoping it will be able to be sorted out.

New patch released today to fix a few issues:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=127882

I think i'm going to give it a new try after leaving it untouched since the release date.

There are some very nice improvements in the latest patch.

I would avoid trying to play with the real rosters being developed - they seem to have a lot more problems then a fictional league.

It seems to be going in the right direction - but just bringing back the old trade functionality and making the AI a priority would get this game where it should have been upon release.

I've been annoyed by some of the things that Markus has said on the OOTP boards, but they have addressed many concerns and as long as they support this game for another few patches before they flip to working on 07 it should be pretty good.

One thing I can't figure out is:

when you make an offer to a free agent, you don't get immediate feedback on the player's response. how can you see a listing of the players you've made offers to and the amount of the offer?

Could you elaborate at all on that statement. I was about to purchase finally but not if it can't play with real MLB rosters. Where did you here this anyways?

That is from my experience of using the beta releases of the real MLB roster sets. I also saw Battists over at OOTP mention that he thinks you'll see less problems if you don't use the real rosters yet.

SI didn't do a good job of setting this game up to have roster sets made and that will hurt them in the long run if they don't get it fixed. I can't imagine anyone trying to do a set after watching what those guys seem to be going through. Again, the fact that months after release there isn't a 'real' roster set tells you just how difficult it's become and that is not good for SI or their customers.

I downloaded the Ankit DB and its worked well for close to 100 seasons now.
What sort of "problems" do these other leagues have? I used the MLB 2.0 quickstart a while back and it worked fine for me. The only problems I had were the fact that the beta patches were messing other things up, not the quickstart.

So...what makes these other things so unsuable?

Thanks for the info and that is to bad ...........for SI.

I wonder if maybe they get shortlisted. If not, that would be something for me to bring up to Markus - have players to whom free agent offers have been made get automatically shortlisted, and have players who have signed contracts with you get automatically de-shortlisted.

They don't get shortlisted. I think your idea is a great one, but I think more than just auto-short listing is needed. YOu need a way of seeing the outstanding offers that you've made - not only the players but the $$ amount of the offer. Like I said, there may be some place in the game where this is available but I haven't been able to find it.



...btw...the whole reason I brought this up was because I started making offers to some FAs and now I can't remember who I made offers to.

Part of the problem, I think, is that real minor leagues are more complicated than what OOTP is currently able to do. I mean, you think about it, and this is the most aggressive approach to the minors I've seen in any baseball game yet. Usually it tops out at AAA, AA, A. One affiliate for each team, each league set up to mirror MLB. That way every team has the same number of teams, etc.

OOTP 2006, You've got Short Season A and Rookie as well, and a team can have multiple affiliates in each class. On top of that, affiliations were a problem too, as I recall. I don't recall whether there were examples of split affiliations in the minors (as I know sometimes happens in the NBA) that you couldn't model with OOTP, but if you're trying to be anal in getting the exact rosters for every team in the majors and 16 or 17 minor leaguers...that's a task.

That's a Herculean task.

And I think people forget that, with OOTP 6.0/6.5, it wasn't nearly that Herculean. You could take a sampling of each team's best prospects, put them where they belonged, and get the major league roster squared away.

With, say, seven affiliates per team, you either sacrifice accuracy by doing the same thing and then filling the lower affiliates with fictional players, or you bust your balls trying to make it work.

Or you create fictional minor league systems with 30 teams each, mirror them to the MLB, affiliate as necessary, and build from there.

In some ways, the flexibility of the league structure now is maybe the Achilles heel for OOTP when it comes to roster sets. The more potential the game exhibits, the more ambitious the roster set creators get.

And that doesn't even address other issues that I'm probably not aware of.

That said, I'd bet much of the problem comes from the fact that one of the guys working on a set only seems to have gotten the game two days before release, and, as I said, people are expecting a much more ambitious effort than they've gotten in the past.

I'm fairly willing to bet that if that is in fact the case - that the 'roster crew,' as it were, came late to the beta process, that we know the reason right there why it's taking so long. Not that it's particularly difficult, but that it's time consuming to put out a set of the magnitude people are demanding.

That's where I would quibble, I think - in that roster creation isn't "difficult," per se, but time-consuming. If you have the game, create a manager to operate in commissioner mode, click on a player, and click the 'editor' tab on the far right, and you can see all the input fields.

There are a lot of fields in there, and it extends beyond the scope of just the ratings set. There are ratings for back injuries, leg injuries, arm injuries, and 'other' injuries. You've got basic demographic information about each player - name, nickname, height, weight, city of birth, nationality, bats, throws, position.

You can edit personality, set specific length of major league service, professional service, options remaining/used. You can edit contract data. For every player, you can create both hitting and pitching ratings/repetoire (although I don't know if you could create a Babe Ruth-type who could both pitch and play the field, but admittedly I haven't tried).

Now consider how under the microscope you are when you create not just a major league roster, but the prospects for each team. That's a lot of pressure to get it right, and that can breed a perfectionist in any of us.

What I think SI should have done this year, if they wanted a major league roster set, and ought to do next year, is solicit teams of folks for each squad, similar to what they do with FM. Ideally they'd get the MLBPA license so that they could include the roster from the get-go, assuming Take-Two's license doesn't preclude that.

But if they can't do it officially, do it unofficially. Get squads of people to work on each team, and include a 'team export' function, so that you can have one master controller who can import each squad's work into one master roster set, which can then be released at launch.

Or create a 'roster creation' tool that can be used independently of the game to achieve the same effect. Create rosters, export them to a team export file, set it up to where you can import all 30 organizations and click "Create roster set" to compile it into 'players.dat.' Since the new code base is set, ideally you'd be able to do this so that it works with OOTP 2007, so that Markus (or somebody) could create the utility, go to work on OOTP 2007, and then the mod squad has the tools in hand well in advance of the game's release so that they CAN release an ambitious roster set on time.

Certainly they've had the time and resources to get quality rosters with FM. There has to be a way to do something similar in OOTP, but given the advances of PureSim and the surprising quality of Baseball Mogul, they need to do something along those lines for the 'real roster' crowd.

I'll make mention of that in the patch beta forum, then, see if that might not be a solution.

the number of features that were available in ootp5 / 6 that are no longer available is staggering.

If you read through some of that huge thread in the mod area, I think you'll see that they just recently got to the point where they were rating minor leaguers. That it tooks a couple of months to get through the major leaguers is scary.

As for my comments about 'real' players, I'm speaking specifically of the Rolen/Cubby Fan roster set - not any other quickstart or anything else of the sort. I don't know what makes it not seem 'right', but you don't need to fool around with it for long before your realize that it's 'off'. It's not the ratings, it just makes the game do odd things.

What sort of odd things?

It would be good for SI if they are serious about this series try to get the MLB license like in FM so they can use the real player database and as someone said before have people assigned to each team major and minor.

The AI really looks bad when I use that roster set. Really bad.

I end up in situations where I'm only running one team and I get alerts that other teams have players in DFA and the time has expired. Even though I have them set to be run by the AI. The AI is making all sorts of moves for them, but they end up with players stuck in DFA anyway.

I've never gotten any crashes ever when not using that roster set - I've had a few with it.

I played for about 14 hours yesterday total with the latest build. Here are some thoughts.

A. Scouting is frustrating. Not the actual time consuming scouting of players which I don't really like, it's situations like these potential ratings from my scouts on a player in the draft:
80/80
24/80
80/80
80/80

So 3 out of my four scouts like this player to be dominant and there is a scout who thinks he can't play in the lowest rungs of the minors. This is fine in theory - however I think that the discrepency comes from the fact that the scouts are judging the players based on their personalities of building a roster. If this is true, they should be judging talent based on how I like to build a team. Also, it seems stupid to favor speed against power for example in the personel profiles. I'd like to be able to weigh them, but not against each other.

Also, there is very little scout turnover and there hasn't been a way for me yet to upgrade my scouts, none ever leave their current organization.

I'm thinking that if I turn scouting off I might enjoy the game better - I'd love to be able to use it, but it's been more frustrating then it's been worth.

B. What is the deal with off-season free agency? Does it just start right after they declare? While the old 6.5 method of free agency might not have been realistic to cordon off 30 days, it worked much better then not even telling me when I could start to sign players. I simmed through to the Winter Meetings thinking it would happen then, but most of the good players were signed before then. I guess now that I know it's not a huge deal, but it seems like an odd way to play the game.

C. Trading is a mess. The solution to the 6.5 trading problems isn't what SI has built into this game. The old method of just throwing guys out and seeing what you can get was enjoyable. The way to fix it was to make the AI value players more properly, not make it a nighmare to put together a deal. I'd also like to be able to just turn off the AI offers at all times - they are a waste of time.

D. More things need to 'stick'. If I go to my minor league rosters and switch from stats to ratings and then demote a player they all go back to stats. Many screens when you click into a player and go back out you lose the sort/view you were looking at. Annoying and time-consuming.

E. The minor league AI should be a focus. Even if players can just be assigned to age-appropriate levels - it's silly to have a bunch of players over 30 below AA.

F. The overall/potential ratings seem to be a bit wrong in my 20-80 scale. It seems that I have a huge amount of 80/80. I'm guess this is because it takes anyone that is 80 and above and makes them an 80, because there are many players who shouldn't rate 80 who do, and whose component ratings don't jive with that overall rating.

G. The minor league system is a step down from past versions. The ghost player methodology was perfect. I cannot stand going out and signing backup catchers and 5th starters for my A ball team. It also makes it tougher to figure out what you have as your 2 or 3 legitimate prospects by level are buried in a sea of roster sludge.

In conclusion, I think that many of my fears were realized in this edition. I can see the draw of EHM and FM, I've tried them in the past and I can see why they have such loyal fanbases. OOTP had a loyal fanbase as well, and I think there are some like me who respect the depth of FM but do not have the time or desire to play something so complicated. The beauty of OOTP has always been going through many seasons and seeing how players develop or recreating a hundred years of history. It is too bad that the almanac feature that would have been more useful in past versions when one could complete many seasons is finally available in this game which isn't condusive to quick simming through many years.

I can see how younger people and college students will love this game. If you've got spare time this could become very addictive. Even though I freed up an entire day yesterday, those occasions are few and far between and with the amount of depth included in this game you really need to dedicate time to your 'universe' to get immersed to any degree.

I find much of the information to be overkill. Maybe I'm just used to how it was organized in past versions, but I've found the huge amount of information make it harder to make a decision which in turn makes it harder to get through enough game time to get me interested in what is going on. For me it's a classic case of paralysis by analysis.

I've found that I can find some enjoyment in a small fictional league with only 3 levels of minor leagues. I do not think that the vast majority of features in this version are going to be much good for me: The scouting system is no fun to me, I've got no interest in the 'universe' aspect, the full rosters of the minor leagues are sapping my will to play the game, I can't invest the time needed to make a trade, the vast majority of the extra stats and splits I find mostly useless (except VORP - good addition, I don't particularly like the new UI - even though I'm starting to be able to move through it, I still don't like it.

I guess my hope is that there are many more that feel the way I do, and our collective voices encourage SI to make this game 'simpler' and focus more on the enjoyment of playing then the trying to focus on 'realistic' in terms of what a general manager does. I guess our slogan could be: "Realism on the field, Fun in the front office."

Is it good or is it bad for SI that there aren't many people posting in this thread?

Probably both.

Yeah, I noticed this as well and I view it as not a good thing.

I don't know if I'm the exception or not, but I've purchased the past four versions and have pretty much decided to skip this one. I tried the early demo (haven't been able to try the new patches because of the time limit issue), and although I didn't mind the interface as much as I thought I would, I just have to agree with those who say it feels like work more than fun.

All of the weird AI stuff, lack of a good MLB roster set (yes, I'm one of those who doesn't really enjoy fictional to start) and me missing some of the little things like stars and the trade block makes me figure I'll just go ahead and skip this one and hope for better things next spring.

Besides, as a Cubs fan, baseball season has long been over for me... :D

They did get around the stars thing by adding overall rating/potential rating to the views. It allows you to sort like the stars used it, I'd say it's at least as good as the stars were if not better.

I've been playing a lot lately since the game hasn't been buggy as it was before...so that's the reason I haven't had much to say about this, beyond what's already been said.

Yeah, I heard that. I haven't been able to try it yet because of the demo issue, though.

Honestly, I would've said that stars were essentially worthless and I didn't mind losing them. But then when I tried it without the stars, it bugged me. Despite all their flaws, they were a handy little tool and that transactions screen in 6.5 is just such an easy way to get a great overview.

Good points.

You should post this in the ootp tech forum. Maybe something can be done about these issues.

I doubt it will get a TT# here.

One other thing huge thing that would bother me if I played out more games, would be the lack of a one-pitch in game experience like past versions. That is a huge omission.

I've been playing the game a lot over the last few days with the newest patch and am enjoying it. I did help test the beta patches as they came out and have seen a lot of improvements go into the game. I woudn't describe myself as a fanboy in any way but I do look at the glass as being half full with ootp. I am able to work around issues I have with the game and don't let those issues detract from my enjoyment.

Your post has many fair criticisms of the game. The game has become more complex and time consuming to do what needs to be done. However IMHO the answer is not to go backwards to make the game easier, for a lack of a better word. I think we go ahead from here and design a better way to do the extra tasks and make less work of them.

Your minor league example, harder to have a handle on what you have there with full teams is somewhat true. I still don't think it's awfully hard to know who your real prospects are once immersed in your league. I don't think the aswer is to go back to ghost players though when we now have real leagues with real games. I'd like to see options to have minor league managers control the everyday opreations without moving guys up and down in the minors. I'd like to see locks on the lineups like fof has. You could lock your prospects into the lineup or rotation and let the AI do the rest. Allow the AI to sing sign players to fill out the minors when you have injuries etc but not touch your prospects. Like a lot of things with this game the base is now in place to build on. Sure it will be next year or maybe the year after that before some of these things can be added so why backtrack now when adding more controls will hopefully do the same thing?

I'd be very surprised and disappointed to not see the trading block back next year along with many other 6.5 things people have asked for. We'll have to wait and see.

Scouting could be made easier and a bigger pool available. Your thoughts about how their opinions are weighed are valid. But perhaps with a bigger pool we could hire scouts that agree with our philosophy of how to build the team. I'd like to be able to right click on a team on my schedule and have a scout option available there. Others have suggested being able to schedule scouting duties weeks or months in advance which has also recieved support.


Sticking should be done everywhere and shouldn't have to be asked for. I agree it is very annoying.

My league is a 6.5x import and with the new patches I haven't had the over 30 issue below AA. In my current league I just started I had one guy over 30 below AA on Jan 1 before I ever stepped in and made any moves. I cut the guy because he did suck. If this is cubby\rolen roster maybe it's an issue with that and not the game? I believe cubby said the minor ratings are not done and many players are currently overrated. Perhaps this contributes to youner guys being moved up and older down?

No doubt adding this much depth to the game is going to turn some people off and bring others in. But as I said with the base in place I am hoping more user options and controls will be put in place to delegate some of these jobs to your staff. This could allow the new depth that many want and yet allow a more efficient use of time for someone that wants to move along quickly.

I'd agree with jb, a good post to put on the ootp forums. Might foster some discussion on how to make the game "more fun" and effiecient without taking away any of the new depth (which let's face it probably isn't going to happen).

my 2 cents

I mostly agree with this. I do think that in a few spots simpler would be better. Scouting would be better if it ignored the scouts preferences - this would make it both more simple to use, more simple to understand and make it more fun and less frustrating.

I imagine in time I'll be able to come up with some views that give me what I want to know so that I don't have to rely on the overwhelming information in the canned reports.

According to a beta tester on another board, this new patch due next week will be the final patch. Unless there is a new game-breaking bug introduced.

You do know you can hit enter and simulate the whole at bat, right?

I know. But then you don't get to use any strategy. I'm talking about the 6.5 and prior way of handling at-bats.

Wow.

They have to begin work on 2K7, you know!

My point of view is probably much different than many here. I didn't really like the previous incarnations of the OOTP series. I bought it every year and played around with it for a few days and then put it away. I always hoped it would grab me, but it never did. For me this version was the most entertaining version released to date and while it still fell short of what I would want in a game, I think they are now headed in the right direction. I think the depth that has been added to the game is a good thing, but there is a lot of tweaking needed to get things working right and there's also a need to add features to make navigating that depth more user friendly. I think there's a lot to be done, but I'm hoping that Markus and company don't abandon things to return to the old way of doing things because I think that would be a big mistake.

We're very much continuing along the same lines.

We've yet to make a final decision, we'll see how 1.0.2 does first.

Just dumbfounded.

I think this will be the end of the line for many, many ootp vets. They'd better be able to convince a whole new customer base to buy the game, otherwise I don't see it being expanded on after next year.

Read one post above yours, they haven't reached the final decision yet.

Wow, if that is the case, my decision on whether to buy or not just became much easier.

Thought I'd quote this because it looks like some folks have Marc on ignore. :D

I didn't ignore what he said, but that doesn't exactly fill me with hope that the game will be continued to be improved in this version. It's certainly not a ringing denial of Dervack's statement.

I tend to agree with this. But then, I think that's the case for any of the text sims we play. I have friends who marvel at how much time I pour into these and that I can spend an entire weekend playing and be throughly engrossed. But at the same time, it can be distracting as hell when you're needing to do RL stuff and hardly lend themselves to casual play. Maybe an online league would, but not solo play.

As for the last patch dealio, I think at the minimum Active/Inactive Leagues ought to find its way into the game before the next edition. I mean, not only was it promised, but he reiterated that it'd be in the first patch and it was a bunch of lacking stuff and broken things that prevented that from happening. But that's not our fault as people who bought the game and the lack of that feature is a HUGE blow to managing a universe, especially since we can't add/remove them in this edition.

The almanac is setup for active/inactive teams and leagues, so...to not have them to me would be an extremely big letdown. But then, for a lot of folks that's the theme of this entire release.

I've actually had a decent time with this ever since they released versions that worked and that I could sim fast. And I'm happier with this iteraton of OOTP than any of the previous ones, specifically BECAUSE of SI's involvement, because their engine is conducive to the sort of simmer I am.

But I suspect that for most, at the point we're at now, is one where people as if we should've been at or very close to after launch and well, we're just there 2 months after.

So, I dunno. I guess its just be interesting to see where it all heads.

Same here. Although I find it sad because I loved playing ootp for all these years - it was by far my favorite game.

True, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to make a stupid joke. :D

Cut me some slack pllleeaassee. Improving (or for some of you getting the game to a decent state) is exactly what we've spent seven weeks doing. I'm not ruling out 1.0.3 but I'm not going to be stupid and promise one and then have you guys dig me out for making promises I didnt keep

Hey, I was just commenting on the fact that things I believe need to be fixed for a purchase to be worthwhile for me don't seem to be addressed in the 1.02 patch from what I've read so far. Furthermore, from the information coming from your own beta testers combined with the tone of your post, it seems quite possible that another patch won't be done. If that happens, I very likely won't buy. Even if you don't make a promise of a 3rd patch, if there is no 3rd patch, I think Markus and SI are going to take a PR hit and likely a hit in future sales of the game.

Dola -

Also, as of right now, I can't try 1.02 for myself since my demo time has expired. Unless, you are able to work that out with Elicense.

Boo. Hoo. Hoo.

Ya'll made the mess (well, more accurately, you put your names on a mess). The fact that people are less than supremely confident is something I'm pretty sure you're just going to have to get used to.

I simply wont commit to one till one is planned and that decision waits till Markus comes back from his holiday

What I will say to you is make sure your issues that you say are not fixed in 1.0.2 get logged in our support forum and that you get a Testtrack number as reference. This way you know it's logged and trackable.

Posted this earlier.
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...5&postcount=31

Thoughts?

Go easy on uncle Marc, he's younger and less grizzled than I am .... once his kids are older and more abusive to his feelings you're welcome to jump on him full force, until then please heap abuse on me and pat him on the head nicely ;)

(on a more serious note, we're doing everything we can to fix any reported problems as promptly as possible - obviously we aren't going to promise future patches until the current situation with any of our games is fully assessed, thats all Marc is saying ...)

I missed that post. I'm certainly interested in taking advantage of that at some point in the next few days.

Sorry Marc, but "the other Marc" seems to have an uncanny knack for taking a tone that irritates me to hell & back. He reminds me more & more of the SI version of the wife-of-a-developer-who-I-won't-name-but-who-has- spelling-and/or-typing-issues; i.e. he tends to come across poorly regardless of what his intentions may be. (not that bad, but the closest thing you have that I've encountered).

Alas, we all gotta learn sometime.

I should have tried this earlier. The game is 100 times more enjoyable to me with the scouts off. Scouting is a disaster, I can't even talk about it anymore, but I might just be able to play this game solo just by checking that box.

More news to follow

I'd say the best thing for you would be to put me on ignore, that way you don't have to listen to my irritations anymore.

One of the things that I'll never understand about these message boards..not just here, but in general is how quickly things devolve into getting personal.

shut up - you nazi.

Ass hole.





;)

edit: it's sad to be beaten to the punch with a bad joke.

Something to do with being passionate and having great feeling and strong emotions about a topic:rolleyes:

Alternately, you could try to keep your foot out of your mouth quite so often.