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Turquoise blade = Jedi, per the Wikipedia entry.
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True, that could be. He could also have been one of the introspective Jedi. They can all wield a weapon, but some are much more combat-oriented than others. One's skills within the Force aren't always on the military side. |
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Could you clarify this please? I'm not clear on what you're saying. |
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Yes, but is desperation an emotion of the Jedi? Doesn't really matter in the end I suppose as I think he was good, Jedi or no. |
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Unless I missed something, does the DM possess the power to change a vote unilaterally? If not, then I'm way off base. I'm not clear on the tie breaking procedures. If I'm not off base, then the outing of the vote change would seem to imply an evil force, since the person killed was a Jedi. If there were more than two Sith in the game, then the sacrifice of the DM of one of them as an apology for the time extension would not impact the game, since so many Jedi have fallen. That was my reasoning behind the statement, since there was discussion earlier about the number of Sith in the game. edited to clarify my thoughts about the possibility of a DM sacrifice |
IMO, the person who is controlling the vote switching is a Sith.
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So you think SnDvls is a Sith? |
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If he was able to change his vote via a PM, then yes. |
Interesting, I hadn't thought about that.
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I'm guessing that the vote change was put in when Saldana wasn't around earlier, which is why he was asking people to clean out their PMs. I don't think this condemns SnDvls any more than it does Ardent. Although it is easier for the 2nd person to use this excuse, since Ardent already gave him the framework of the PM to quote.
In other words, I think it is much more likely that SnDvls is playing a bluff here than it is that Saldana is sacrificing him to clean up his mistake. |
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I think he was good. Technically, the Jedi aren't supposed to give sway to emotion in the first place. All of it is dangerous, because it leads to entanglements. But desperation is also fear after a fashion. Remember Luke flipping out over Leia and Han and leaving training with Master Yoda to try and save them? That was desperation, fear for their lives, that drove him to leave. |
I think everyone needs to remember that at times real life gets in the way.
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Right now I feel uneasy about Desnudo, path aka Barkeep, and Hoops. I'm not sure if I buy his reveal and why wouldn't the Sith kill him off if he really is a Jedi and let us kill stkelly tomorrow. As a bad guy, you usually want to leave the players with the unknown roles around and if Hoops did turn out good we would probably have gone after stkelly tomorrow.
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To expand on this: that wasn't a Dark Side emotion, but it ultimately put an emotionally vulnerable Luke in a position where Darth Vader was able to emotionally torment him in an effort to turn him. |
So sndvls' vote change saved Hoops, right? Or it possibly saved him since we aren't sure about the tiebreaker.
That throws suspicion on Hoops, but maybe the Sith are just trying to distract us. |
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Another possibility: both are Jedi, but saldana chose to sacrifice stkelly as an apology to Hoops for forcing his hand. It doesn't necesarily have to be an apology to one team or the other. |
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Yeah, I think if Hoops were a Jedi, the Sith would just let the votes stand. It would have been Jedi vs. Jedi. |
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King, I can't tell you how to react to my reveal. I would have given it a little before the deadline if the vote swings had not come in with less than a minute to go.
But if you believe I'm lying, then do you really think that I planted info in Post #1304 for a fake reveal on some later date? I'm not that clever, although I do plan to put that idea into the arsenal for future games. |
Hoops - Do you have any thoughts on Desnudo and/or Path/Barkeep?
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King, if the bodyguard protects me and the Sith come after me, then we would likely see a battle like we did on Night 2. It wouldn't be a no-action night, unless they decide to not attack at all.
As far as why they would move the vote between me and stkelly, I don't know. I wish I had a better answer. But I feel like I've been getting worked over pretty good all game long. |
I had to step out to take care of the kids just after 6:30, and this was the first chance that I had to come back.
Well this kind of sucks, but I figured that it would end this way once I had all those votes for me earlier. I got my hopes up just before the close of the original vote time, but oh well. |
King, Path/Barkeep is the person that I thought was the Master Sith if Taz is the Apprentice (again, assuming two Sith model).
Everyone has pointed to the AE/Hoops/Ardent triangle for the past four days. But it has pretty much become the AE/Hoops since Barkeep dropped out. - Path was one of the first to move the vote away from Taz yesterday. - Barkeep (was still him at this time) left his vote on Taz during Day 4. If he loses his apprentice it at least buys him some cover in terms of voting records. And he moves Ardent's vote over to try and steer the results - Barkeep put significant pressure on me earlier in the game, but backed off (and Path has followed suit) when they realized that having me alive gave them cover Voting Record: D1: Qwik (Jedi) D2: Lathum (Jedi) D3: Ardent (not Dubb) D4: Taz (explained above) D5: Tangle (Jedi, explained above) D6: StKelly (Jedi) Overall, his voting record isn't horrible as he has only voted for four dead Jedi, plus Ardent and Taz. But if you accept that AE = Jedi, then I think he has voted for 5 Jedi and his apprentice. Finally, the Sith are just destroying us - 11 dead Jedi, 0 Sith, Dubb as an evil, and another likely Jedi kill tonight. Barkeep is the only person left that I give credit for being able to pull this off. No offense intended towards anyone else here with that comment, but he is an experienced, tricky player. |
I think Desnudo is Jedi. I'll post on everyone at this point, if you don't think that my trust list is helping the Sith choose their target list for tonight.
At this point I'm not counting on being around tomorrow so consider me an open book for any questions over the next 45 minutes or so before I crash for the night. |
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That's a rather ominous post. I can assure that I am a jedi. I have done my best to ensure that those I believe to be jedi stay alive, absent of any information to root out the Sith. I'd invite a seer scan, but I don't suppose that comment will sway you in one way or the other. |
OK, looks like everyone packed it in early tonight.
Distrust List: Taz, Barkeep/Path, KWhit, and SnDvls I think two of these four are Sith. I feel pretty good about the rest of the group, which at that point means: AE, Desnudo, Gram, Sack, Cartman, and King (listed roughly in order, Gram/Sack are about the same for me) make up my trust list. King would be the swing vote in this group. I thought there were more people left when I started typing this list. Depressing how few names are left at this point with no dead Sith. |
So if you think I'm the apprentice and barkeep/path is the master, why the heck have you been voting for me first? Wouldn't you go after the head and not the tail of the snake?
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Mostly because I was still trying to make sense of Day 4. I'm not positive this is right - my track record this game is just as lousy as everyone else's. But unless I learn something else tonight I'm planning to vote Barkeep tomorrow.
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Only thing I'm master of is voting the wrong people. :( |
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Also, could we really start referring to me as path instead of Barkeep? I'd appreciate it. It starts to make a guy feel not there. |
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:) Sorry path, but it's funny. I mean no malice by this post, especially since it's basically what I was thinking as I read the few posts before it. |
Wow, this game is a freaking roller coaster. Hoops reveal seems pretty realistic to me at this point. I want to see where the group goes with their votes tomorrow, but Hoops post #1523 seems to make alot of sense to me....
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this is the same thing that happened to Ardent. I got a PM saying the last thing I remember is someone in a hooded cloak telling me that I didn't want to vote king I wanted to vote stkelly. I'm not a sith, someone took over my mind and made me change my vote. Just like Ardent had to do with Qwik & Taz. |
I'd believe Sndvls...if it's something he wanted to do, then I think Sndvls would just have to post it.
I think Saldana posting it makes sndvls story believable. |
Confusion reigns after the end of the day yesterday. You all return to your rooms trying to make sense of the flurry of events that came as night fell. As the night stretches on, you begin to think and hope that the Sith have failed again this evening, but just as morning breaks, the disturbance that you have come to dread hits you like Star Destroyer.
Once again, there is a rush of people towards the galley area, and once again, the twin scarlet blades are lit, this time the whirling dervish that is the Sith is battling a luminescent violet lightsaber. The deep purple blade seems to be holding its own against the crimson onslaught, the regally purple weapon being masterfully wielded by Desnudo. "You may strike me down, Sith", Desnudo hisses through clenched teeth,"but the rest of the Jedi will find you eventually, even without my help, and your fate will not be pleasant". The Sith laughs his evil "bwahahahaaha" and presses the attack again. The battle seems to me moving at a rather even exchange for several minutes when the Sith uses a well placed kick to Desnudo's knee to knock him off balance and turn sideways to his left, exposing his unguarded back to the Sith. With a lightning fast clockwise spin, the Sith brings both scarlet blades around in a deadly pivot, one slicing clean through Desnudo at the waist, the other at the neck, transecting Des into 3 neat little pieces. night 6 is over, it is now day 7. voting deadline is 9:30pm (no really, i mean it. no, i am serious about this today, 9:30, i swear) |
Well. Des was evil. Nice.
VOTE...path. |
On 2nd read, maybe he wasn't. What color was dubb's blade?
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VOTE GRAMMATICUS
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:confused: :confused: I began to read this as Des was evil but the underlined part (mine) confuses me. should it read jedi Saldana? and it's just a typo |
dola - never mind Ardent had me confused by thinkg Des was evil
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I have no idea where I'm going today, but I am aware that I've moved way up the list and perhaps deservedly so, since I was on both Tangle and stkelly early and was wrong both times.......so there's not really any great defense that I can provide, especially since there is no role to reveal except a regular Jedi.
So all I would ask for those of you who would like to vote me is to take five minutes or so and look back through my posts (and Barkeep's for that matter) so far this game and just read through them using the assumption that I am telling the truth. If you do, I believe you will see that although I've been very mistaken, I have been working with the rest of you to sniff out the Sith. If you don't agree after that, vote away. In Jedi tradition, I will offer no resistance. |
the night post has been edited slightly to provide a clearer picture
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Any reason for this vote? |
Violet lightsaber - not found in the Wikipedia entry.
Purple = Jedi. Finally, why would the Sith kill a Sith? I'm not sure what role Desnudo played, but I would be just stunned if the Sith are killing their own. |
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What does that have to do with Gramm? |
I wanted to vote for Grammaticus (sigh).
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vote KingFC
He has been playing very quietly this game and has been able to stay under the group's radar for the most part. With Des's death, I went back to look and saw that Des had some supicions of him, at least enough to vote for him in post #1410 (which he later unvoted because there wasn't enough support to actually lynch him). I'd like to hear what others think of Kingfc. I know SnDvls seems to also have some suspicions towards Kingfc (#1402). |
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Are you saying you were forced to vote for him? |
Oh man. Good luck guys.
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mine is pretty much the same as yours. once he got called on it late last night he had a lot of posts that AE commented on. that's where I'm leaning again today. |
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So, do we feel hoops was forced to vote Gramm? He might not be able to answer my question in a straight forward answer..... |
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I thought that might be it. It wasn't like you to vote without an explanation. |
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That is certainly what he is suggesting. However, I don't have 100% trust in Hoops, so it's possible that could be a ruse. I don't think it's likely at this point, but it is possible. |
I seriously doubt it. A compelled vote only makes sense at the end of a night.
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Unvote Path
Vote hoops |
Based on what has happened up to this point, and past behavior in the game, I would be VERY SUSPICIOUS of anyone else later in the day who claims their vote is moved. Which should work to the Jedi advantage in that they can vote for who they want to without worrying about protecting against vote changes later in the day. Not so cool for me, but it frees everyone else up a little bit.
Also, I don't expect that my vote will be moving today. |
I’ve already indicated my suspicion of Hoops and would be shocked at this point if he is not Sith
VOTE HOOPS |
Ardent, I'm not allowed much wiggle room to comment much on my vote or on the players in this game at the moment, but I completely understand why my vote was compelled at this point.
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Not buying it hoops. I know what my instructions were after I felt compelled to vote.
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This makes me VERY SUSPICIOUS of you. Interesting that you claim your vote was moved and then state that we should be suspicious of someone else whose vote is moved. VOTE HOOPS |
I'm gonna be out until a couple of hours before the deadline. I'll wait to make a vote until then, to see what course the discussion takes today, then add my part once I'm back online.
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KWhit, I don't think that the Sith can move multiple votes in a day. That is where I was headed with this. I know we don't have a huge sample set of evidence to review on this topic, but based on the two days that votes were moved I don't believe they can move multiple votes in a day. I think that would be very, very unbalanced as a game mechanic as well.
Ardent, I know what my instructions said as well and I followed up with Saldana on this to see just what kind of flexibility I could have on this. I don't think this power was meant to put a gag on me for the entire day and that is what I argued. In the movies the effects are a short-term loss of control and I'm going to be afflicted by this for the entire day cycle. Finally, for those people voting for me - does this plan of action seem even close to the optimal way for a Sith to play, especially given the events up to Day 7? |
Two, ah-three, ah-four
Two, ah-three, ah-four Two, ah-three, ah-four I really should be saying goodnight I really shouldn't stay anymore It's been so long since I held ya I've forgotten what love is for I should run On the double I think I'm in trouble I think I'm in trouble I think I'm in trouble So come to me darlin' and hold me Let your honey keep you warm Been so long since I held ya I've forgotten what love is for I should run On the double I think I'm in trouble I think I'm in trouble I think I'm in trouble I think I'm in trouble [Instrumental Interlude] I should run On the double I think I'm in trouble I think I'm in trouble I think I'm in trouble I think I'm in trouble |
HOOPS - there is a word describing the clothing the person who waved his hand at me was wearing. give me the word and I'll know if you are being truthful.
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Oh snap, good job SnDvls. I guess we'll see if he's telling the truth... |
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That sounds a little meta-gamey to me. I'd wait on a ruling before sharing that so openly. |
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well AE already shared his which was like mine...I won't describe either any further. Saldana if you wish I will back off this. |
SnDvls, I'm inclined to agree with KWhit on this ... we had a pretty similar mechanic in the "Lost" game with the word simple and I felt like it gave us an unfair advantage.
I've PM'd Saldana asking for a ruling, but I have a couple of descriptive words that I can use from the PM that I bet would go a long ways towards reassuring you. I think the one you are looking for was already used by Ardent at some point, but I've got another one in mind that has not been mentioned here that would clinch it for you if we had identical PMs. |
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I'll wait for Saldana's ruling on this |
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Well, the ruling will decide it, but hell, at this point we need any advantage we can get, fair or not! :p |
the following was part of the post 1 rule set:
DO NOT POST ANY COMPLETE OR PARTIAL PM'S OR INCUR THE WRATH OF THE J.M. (jedi master ) it was intended to prevent people from trying to use the "simple" loophole from the lost game (other measures were also taken to prevent this). I believe sndvls question would fall into this area, and would appreciate it not being answered. all PM's that have been sent out during the game have been slightly different on purpose to prevent this type of questioning. in the other instances in the game that people have brought out info from pm's they have done it willingly, not as a form of questioning used to determine roles. thanks |
:( :(
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no prob. settled and dropped....my bad |
*and the disdain for Saldana as a DM grows* :(
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Fair ruling, although that kind of sucks for me in this particular case.
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no bad feelings on my part. I assumed something and shouldn't have. I guess I just want all this jedi killing to stop. |
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really? it doesn't absolutley clear you or damn you. It still puts the question out there about you is all. If not for you actions today I would not even think of voting for you and I tend to not want to now. AE & I had our votes switched during a tie vote and yours comes up early that is the only thing that makes me question you. |
I apoligize to everyone I should have cleared my question w/ Saldana prior to posting it.
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SnDvls, I think it kind of sucks because I could answer the question and gone a long ways towards clearing myself. But I agree that we should try to hold some standards of integrity on how we play the game and that is more important than me advancing to Night 7.
Thus the "fair but sucks" comment. Saldana, no hard feelings on the ruling here specifically or the game in general. It has been a lot of fun, in a masochistic sort of way. I know you are beating yourself up over last night, but it isn't worth carrying it around past the point of resolving the solution. We can hash some of this stuff out in the post game if people still feel strongly about it then. |
okay I'm still leaning towards king and will contine to put my vote there. based on the same reasons I voted him yesterday.
vote king |
Votes as of Post #1580:
Gram - Hoopsguy (1538) King - Penny (1547), SnDvls (1580) Hoops - Ardent (1555), Grammaticus (1557), KWhit (1560) |
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I smell a rat! Also, who was compelled to switch their vote to Qwik the first time this Sith mind trick happened? |
Me.
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Ardent was compelled initially on the Qwik/Taz vote on Day 4.
Gram, I would give the information if I could. Obviously it is in my self-interest to do so. And I feel like I have always played the game with a high level of respect for the integrity of play; I would hope that moderators from previous games would acknowledge that. Ardent specifically can vouch that I asked about the use of the word "simple" before ever communicating on it in the "Lost" game ... several hundred posts after other people had dropped it in their role call. It doesn't mean that I don't play as aggressively as possible within the rules of the game, but I don't try to stretch them to the point of breaking. In terms of "hints" for today, I'm pretty much forbidden to comment on the remaining players because it could be construed as where I would want my vote to go if I wasn't being compelled to vote for you. So ask questions about my play or thoughts on the dead Jedi and I'll be as helpful as I can. And if I'm alive at the end of the day then we'll see where this game goes. Any over-the-top claims about my value to the Jedi and being able to win the game for us are going to come off sounding like a Sith trying to buy time. Fact is that we haven't gotten one yet, and I've been as significant a part of the problem as anyone else here. Judge me on your suspicion level of me versus the other remaining players. Just know that I won't be changing my vote and that I believe that the Sith can't compel anyone else to change their vote today. |
I know there was suspicion of Barkeep in the group of him, AE and hoops before he ducked out.
The role wouldn't change when path got it, so I guess the question is, do we still believe there's a Sith in that group, and do we believe that path might be getting a little bit of a free pass with Barkeep not around to serve as a lightning rod for his veteran status? |
I believe there to be a Sith among the three of us.
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I'm content to take hoops, path, and myself down in any order to prove such a theory. |
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Also, I agree with AE, there is a Sith in the group mentioned (Hoops, AE and Path) Alright, why would the Sith make Jedi change votes to someone else during a 2 man race if both are Jedi? My initial thoughts were they could not move a vote unless a tie occurred. Basically it is a tie breaker logic. For AE and Sun, it was a tie. Now Hoops says it is just happening. There’s that rat I smell again. Ardent, did anyone compel you to act in any event other than the tie situation? Did someone use Jedi mind tricks to make you vote for yourself at other points during the trip to Embleton? |
I've felt completely normal other than the time I wanted to vote for Qwikshot.
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I agree with this. And the dola. |
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You might be putting effect before cause here. We've seen vote switches twice in ties, but have we seen anything to suggest that they can only influence votes in those cases? I submit that it causes more chaos when it happens late, and so it has been in their interest to do it then. I further submit the reason we haven't seen more of it is for precisely what's happening with hoops right now: people are starting to get suspicious. I could see a scenario in which the Sith use the vote switch for precisely that reason - to make people suspect a Jedi. Is that what's happening here? I don't know. But the possibility is there. |
Well, if they can just switch, I’m under the impression they have not done it yet in the game except when there was a tie. I believe this because no other Jedi has come forward and indicated otherwise. If they simply have chosen not to use it, why? There have been other close votes, why would they not use it then? Or why not use it to screw with us earlier in the game?
That is a very big power to just not use outside of a tie until now. I have not seen any offsetting power or balance to that power to exist among the Jedi. Plus, I think Saldana told us that we would not like the tie breaker. All of this makes me think it is a tie breaker logic. One thing that sounds consistent among everyone is there is a Sith amongst AE, Hoops and Path. I say we take Hoops first and then go from there. |
If we play through the weekend like we did last weekend, I'd just assume you vote me out tomorrow.
I'm going home tomorrow morning and likely will not be on the computer for much of the weekend. |
That's not to say I'm being a defeatist...but if we look to nail the three of us on lynches, I'd volunteer today or tomorrow, because I won't be available afterward.
About the only time I could possibly be online is early in the mornings of Saturday and Sunday. |
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Probably because it has the effect of getting somebody killed who might not otherwise have been, which then puts the switchee on the hot seat. Do we believe them? Do we not? If you use it in just a close vote to widen or narrow the gap, it doesn't have the same impact. People wonder what's going on, but it's not chaos. I think they were probably trying to maximize the effect of it, since it would naturally have a diminishing impact. On another tangent, using it on another Sith to try and clear them might be a useful ploy, but they would have had to do that sooner rather than later, for the same reasons I've offered above. Quote:
Because we've been doing a damn fine job of screwing with ourselves, so using a power of limited utility in such a way that doesn't add to their kill count *and* spread confusion probably didn't seem worth it. Quote:
Maybe. I could see giving the Sith control over tiebreakers to compensate for a numbers discrepancy. It's not a ludicrous idea, and you may even be right, but I still think they probably had a little more latitude with it than that. Now whether they're using it on hoops or not is the million dollar question. By saving it for tonight when there might be a tie, that maybe clears him, because "Oh look, tiebreaker." By using it in the morning, when there's no tie to break, it causes confusion, suspicion against hoops for a break with precedent, and just generally throws us a curveball we weren't expecting. Quote:
That seems to be the consensus. I still believe AE to be clear. Hoops is a possibility, given the day's discussion, but something inside me is just trying to get my attention about path. I'm going to have to consider this vote carefully before I cast it. |
I can neither confirm nor deny that there is a Sith among the three players that you listed. But taking an approach of systematically eliminating the three players until you find a Sith is very possibly going to result in a loss if you miss on the first two guesses.
We know that Dubb was evil, if not Sith. Which side do you think he was on? If there are only two Sith, do you think their victory condition was shrink 21-2 down to 2-2 so they have even numbers? I'm guessing that the Sith have to: a.) survive up to a certain day b.) have other non-sith in the game (Dubb as an example) who count as Sith in terms of votes If it is scenario a.) then we are in bad shape. Day 7 would seem like a pretty convenient day for wrapping up a game. But it could extend out a little further, depending on how roles were balanced. Given that there is a tie-breaker and there has only been one night kill stopped, I don't think we would have the luxury of Day 10 if this is the mechanic. If it is scenario b.) then how many Sith + sympathizers started the game? Initial speculation was something like 4-5, so lets take Dubb out of the mix. 3-4 Sith + sympathizers left? A wrong lynch + death tonight and we are just about out of time. A correct lynch today on a brutal wolf puts us in a similar spot. I don't know if any of this is accurate, but I do know that starting with me today isn't getting us any closer to a win and is moving us closer to a loss. |
My vote will be for path or hoops. Right now, it is on hoops. I'd like to see one of them lynched. If the majority vote path, I'll move my vote that way as well.
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One other thought about my availability...if you would rather me drop out and have someone step in, I'd understand. Personally, I would rather not...as I feel replaced players make the game incredibly difficult to play, as is the case of barkeep/path, no offense to either player intended.
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If the group wants to go with a Barkeep/path, hoops, or AE vote I'll take my vote off of King because it would essentially be meaningless and switch to one of those three.
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