And the MLB Network is up. Not bad so far (10 minutes I've watched). Kind of like a baseball tonight type of set up. For the Hot Stove time period, its hard to break down any analysis or anything. I'll have to keep watching to see if they go beyond ESPN aside from 24/7 baseball. I'd like to see more advanced stats used, but that may be asking too much.

Haven't been following this thread recently, so I apologize if it's already been discussed, but can someone please tell me why the Mets aren't in the Manny chase? Hell, I live in NY and haven't heard too much about it, just that he's not a Wilpon kind of guy. They remind me of a team I build in FOF that I really like and just cant make major changes to the roster bc i think they can win it every year, but never do. They need an OF, obviously he's not much of one but you do have Beltran in center, and clearly one of the greatest hitters in the game. Anyhoot, i'm just rambling.

Who're the hosts?

I think it was Vasgersian, Leiter, Reynolds, and Larkin.

You are correct. They made a smart decision by hiring Leiter. His color commentary and the way he would break down a play during his limited stints on YES named the Yankee channel worth watching. I hope he does as well as a studio analyst.

It hasn't been discussed and it's a question I wonder about too frankly. I think at some point you have to say "screw it...we think this guy can help us win and put butts in the seats, we'll put up with his shit for a couple years."

There's also the remote possibility (okay maybe I'm being dulusional) that Manny realizes that this is his last significant contract he's going to get and so he behaves himself. Okay yeah, rereading that, definately delusional.

Minaya has tried to sell Wilpon on it, and he won't budge. Bringing him in does make too much sense and I think as the market continues to be nil for him, Minaya could pounce.

I think if the Mets can get him and the price is right for them - ie not this 4 years @ 20m/yr # that Boras is throwing around, but maybe 3/36 or 3/42 with an option for a 4th year, then they could consider it. I just don't think they believe, or anyone believes, that in this market Manny Ramirez is a 20m/yr player. He's a one-tool guy. Given he's a HOFer based on that one tool alone, but he's a one-tool guy.

They're not going to approach those years. They'd pay him $25 million for a year, or 2/40 if it's a team option.

Silly that the Mets are going to tighten their purse strings now, considering the silly deal they gave to Pedro and how much they've paid some people the past few seasons.

very true miked

So because they made mistakes in the past, they should repeat them?

Manny isn't taking 3/36. A 3 year deal would be at least $50 million. I don't see how refusing to go to that length for a guy with obvious issues is being cheap.

Giants are in the Manny sweepstakes, except they really aren't.


Either way...

If Manny were a couple years older he'd be a good fit in San Fran, but I don't see them going with a youth movement right now.

If Manny went to the Mets, I'd be preparing to root for my Phillies to take the wild card.

Sure, Pedro was a mistake, but the Mets in their new stadium can't go 3/50 with a buyout? He's not a big enough upgrade over Church, Easley, or whatever utility-man of the week they have out there (Chavez, etc). He would immediately provide much needed protection for Wright/Beltran and really that's chump change for a team that is spending 10M on a closer that is out for the year. There's no cap, what's the risk?

Was it Vasgersian or Rojas who was the host at the Hot Stove desk?

Of course it'll really show whether its worth it during the season, but I really liked the breaking down of contract numbers they had in the middle of the show with two other analysts.

The Mets still operate on a budget and can't spend in the area that the Yankees do. My point was their payroll is still very high -- how is refusing to add upwards of $20 million being "tight" with money?

I don't see Manny taking less than $20 M per year from anyone, and maybe won't even take a number at exactly that either (likely higher). Remember, he was likely going to get that $20 M per from the Sox for these two years, before he did his whole sabotage thing to get out of it. No way he goes through all that and signs with anyone for less than $20 M per. He strikes me as the sort who will just take the season off before accepting less.

Well, if I were their fans, I'd certainly want them using the money I'm giving them (as well as the government for their new stadium) to try the best they can to win. Adding another 15-18M to get Manny is truly chump change to them. I'm obviously not in a position to spend their money, but they are the second most valuable franchise with an estimated 230+ million in revenue and a payroll of what, 138M? They have some wiggle room and if I were a fan, I'd much rather see Manny out there than Endy Chavez, Ryan Church, Trot Nixon, or whatever 1M scrub they can throw out...especially considering their recent late collapses.

The White Sox are apparently in talks to acquire Brian Roberts from Baltimore for Gavin Floyd. A great deal for Chicago if they can get it.

And a whole lotta Cubs fans are gonna be pissed if the Sox nab Roberts instead of the Cubs.

yeaaaa, so the more i think about, i'm pretty sure i brought up the whole manny to the mets deal earlier in this thread. As time goes on, and the loner he sits on the market, it just gets frustrating that they aren't considering him. Wilpon needs to swallow his pride, and spend the $$$ on a guy who may not fit his scheme. After '06, the yr in which all of us Mets fans thought they would take it all, then the collapses of '07-'08, I think he needs to understand that the fans are getting a little ticked off and getting Ramirez, IMO, could quite possibly make the Mets the favorites in the NL. For the first time in my baseball following career, the Yankees spending finally got to me. By no means have I ever been pissed about how much they spend, but it's frustrating watching them spend all this money, which very well could bite them in the ass a yr or 2 from now, but hey, they are trying to win now. Wilpon needs to take a page out of their book and get this done.

I haven't commented on it yet, but the hiring of Jack Zduriencik as the Mariners GM is looking better and better as the days go by. He obviously has a great track record as the man in charge of the draft for the Brewers in recent years which speaks to his scouting acumen, but he also has a strong appreciation for modern statistical analysis. He brought over Tony Blengino from the Brewers to head the new M's department on baseball analysis, and it's just been revealed that Blengino has hired Tom Tango to be a consultant with the M's.

For anybody that follows sabermetrics, this is obviously great news for the Mariners, as Tango is widely considered the top statistical analyst out there right now.

In the span of one year, the M's have gone from being one of the worst-run teams in baseball to perhaps one of the best. What's certain is they've finally embraced 21st century baseball thinking. I'm finally looking forward to seeing baseball transactions by the M's instead of covering my eyes in disgust.

Burrell for 2/16 to the Rays is a really good signing. At least that small market team gets it.

Once the A's sign Giambi for one year, they'll be there too. Some great bargains out there. What's the latest on Abreu?

What a steal for the Rays

At these rates Dunn is going to be a huge steal for somebody.

Asking for way too much money is the last I heard.

Teams are getting smarter about figuring out defensive value, which is driving down the amount they're willing to pay a guy like Dunn that is well below average as a fielder.

I think it's more of being the right fit for the Rays than a steal.

The Mets need a right-handed bat to play LF. If they signed Burrell to this same deal, or even for lesser money, I'd be pretty upset. But I think it's a great signing for the Rays.

Wow... 2 for $16 mil is a great deal for the Rays!

Seems the Cubbies have signed Milton Bradley as well for 3 years, $30 Mil

Sources: Chicago Cubs, Milton Bradley agree to three-year, $30 million contract - ESPN

Lots of news today, appears Carl Pohlad kicked the bucket too:

Minnesota Twins owner Carl Pohlad dies - ESPN

Any chance the Twinkies start spending more?

I wish the Phillies had kept him at that price. A great signing for the Rays.

That's cheaper than Ibanez!

I hate to speak ill of the recently deceased, but there are a few priceless quotes in this piece:

He apparently didn't want to win badly enough to upset the bottom line of the Twins as a business.

Sure he was a success, but he also demanded public subsidy of his baseball team - thus the public had a right to criticize his ownership.

Why are people so worried about "price"? Phillies aren't exactly a small market team needing to pinch pennies like the Rays.

If the Phillies think Ibanez is a better fit for the team, then so be it. I seriously doubt the 14 million dollars difference is going to hamper the Phillies long-term of short-term plans.

As was said above, the deal is good for the Rays because of "fit". Burrell is a good player for that price range. Did Philadelphia overpay a little bit for Ibanez? Perhaps, but why does that really matter?

Seriously? You don't think teams, outside of maybe the Yankees, pay a lot of attention to their budgets?

Because Burrell is probably the better player ;).

Why overpay?

Simple. I think Burrell is the better player of the 2 and they don't have the resources of the Yankees or Boston even though they aren't a small market team. Every dollar they overpaid for Ibanez could have gone towards securing another player that could have helped the club. Hopefully, the Phillies management made the right call, and Ibanez outproduces what Burrell would have done here. However, I'm not at all convinced that will happen.

Not saying the Phillies to not pay a lot of attention to their budgets, but I doubt that the difference between what they are paying Ibanez and would have paid Burrell will significantly impact future plans of the Phillies.


Some things you can't measure with statistics. We'll never agree on that. :)


I have faith. This was a "Gillick" move, and people have doubted him before (See Jaime Moyer, Joe Blanton, Brad Lidge, etc.)

I dont know much about Ibanez but is he a better fielder than Burrell? I guess a Babe Ruth's corpse would be a better fielder than Burrell so that's answering my own question.

Unfortunately, I don't think he is. Statistically at least, he is not a better fielder.

What the fuck then???

This is interesting...

Burrell leaves Phillies quietly but disappointed | Philadelphia Daily News | 12/15/2008

A portion of the article reads:

There were reports earlier in the season that Burrell had turned down a 2-year, $22 million offer that would have kept him in red pinstripes. He addressed the issue reluctantly.

"This is all I'm going to say about it: Early in the season there were preliminary discussions about the possibility of an extension. And the truth of it is, it never got to be more than that. It just never did," he said. "The rest of the season went on and that was the end of the preliminary discussions. To be honest, nothing specific was ever talked about. Nothing official was offered. There were just some preliminary talks."

The advanced fielding metrics actually had him as the only LFer in baseball last season worse than Burrell. No joke.

Raul Ibanez is bad in the field. One of the very worst LF by virtually every advanced defensive metric.

I saw one local news story that said it was a shame that he never got to see the Twins open up their new stadium, which I thought was completely ridiculous. If it were his life's dream to see the Twins play in a new outdoor stadium, as MLBs richest owner he could have built a new one years ago. Though in the past he showed that recieving millions would have meant more than seeing the Twins stay in Minnesota, and then seeing them ever play a game again. If it had mattered to him he could've used his own money when he was 'only' in his 80's, instead it was more important to recieve $400 million from the tax payers. I can't fault him as a business man when few other owners in sports will build a stadium without public money, but I don't think it's something to bemoan that he never saw the new stadium when it clearly wasn't a major priority of his.

Phillies' Romero Suspended 50 Games
By Ben Jones [January 5 at 9:26pm CST]

The Philadelphia Phillies might need to pick up some help for their bullpen after reliever J.C. Romero found out he has been suspended 50 games by Major League Baseball.

Romero failed a drug test, though he denies doing anything illegal.

"I still cannot see where I did something wrong," Romero told ESPN.com's Peter Gammons. "There is nothing that should take away from the rings of my teammates. I didn't cheat. I tried to follow the rules."