I think it's clear that hoops, to the smallest extent, followed by myself and whoever lives between dubb and ardent is the biggest target tomorrow. But I don't quite follow on how not letting hoops and I, assuming we're both Jedi, battle it out is to dubb's advantage if he's a wolf.

Why Ardent? I know Ardent better than any other werewolf player. We have discussed strategy in depth for hours at a time on the phone in the past. He takes strategy into everything he types in these games as do I. He's not playing his normal game(he has had no strategy this game at all, something doesn't add up in his play, and then things such as voting blocks don't work in his favor either). Before the night actions were even up I said I already know who I am voting for. I got up today and came out with that person since they were still around.

With all that said its time to return to my movie :), hope I'm still around when I come back b/c I am a jedi.

I think Dubb just got the vote by one.

I think Gram's right and would like a hell of an explanation from mckerny.

Here is what I show for final votes:

Ardent - Dubb (532), Hoops (550), KWhit (611), Tanglewood (620), Ardent (621), Taz (653), Barkeep (686)

Dubb - Schmidty (553), Sack (556), Jeeber (578), Desnudo (583), Gram (586), Qwik (588), SnDvls (610), mckerney (687)

Qwikshot - Cartman (594)

Not Voted: King, Penny, StKelly

8-7-1 with Dubb slated for an exit, barring duke, weighted votes, or something else that MasterSaldana has cooked up for us.


Mckerney, what prompted the vote change at the end?

I hadn't thought of that. In that situation though, wouldn't Ardent just come forward and call Dubb out since all the other wolves would also know who he was?

As would I. I was prepared for the martyr's death.

FWIW, Ardent did leave the vote on himself.

I'm confused by that last sentence. It's absolutely to his advantage, but he can nail AE now and then you two will still be around as prime suspects. Likely more suspicious of each other if anything. That was the point I was trying to make.

Well we all did say that the bodygaurd should remain quiet. Unless Ardent is going to get lynched nothing is gained by revealing himself to everyone as the bodyguard. Instead it creates a whole mind game behind the scenes between ardent and the wolves. Ardent wouldn't neceassily have to be the bodyguard for this scenario to play out, it was just the most easily explainable one given the short time. With ardent insisting even when it looked like death that he was a vanilla it only seemed appropriate to discard it.

Plotting out three days in WW is an exercise in futility. It is far too likely that some sort of information would be gained if not in day 1 then by end of day 2, to cause a different course then all three of us going down the drain. By coming out against ardent, dubb made himself a target equal to anyone else. In fact he made himself more of a target then anyone else. I think this is a far more effective wolfish tactic after a couple more villagers are dead and it's clear where the battle lines have been drawn.

Possibly. I think it was obvious to all, or at least to me, that no matter what happened today, you and hoops would still be suspicious of each other. I still believe that will be the case, even if AE were to turn out a Sith.

I know it would be super sweet if it turns out dubb was Sith.

I don't think that's true at all. Hoops was only marginally suspicious of me, and only because of my look at him, and my early unvote off of him after dubb did his post shows that I was willing to take a second look of somebody who only struck me in the gut as evil, without strong conviction.

Dubb really slid behind the scenes. He didn't really push at all beside his original argument. At a certain point I think most people had forgotten who started the voting on AE in the first place, until Schmidty pointed it out.

Well you know yourself better than I do, but the way I was reading things was different.

Since it appears I will be living, at least temporarily, I will take kwhit off the ignore list and I apologize for calling you a jerk. However, the wording of your post truly offended me.

AE you know I have all the respect in the world for you and understand how KWhit's post could have struck you wrong. I think he was just reflecting a feeling that I know I have that voting for yourself is a tactic that needs to be taken out of our WW games.

Going back to last game, if AE is offended by that, he's the most thin-skinned Navy man I've ever met.

I can understand that. My vote for myself wasn't a "get me out of this game" type thing, though I posted as much in anger. You and someone else said you had more to gain by my death. Had I not voted for myself, I doubt the vote would have been as close. Who knows.

I'm willing to walk the line. I have no fear of death. I'm not being a defeatist. I'm trying to help.

Going back to last game was an Aardvark, and yes I was stretching.

Telling me I'm useless or however he put it, yeah that pissed me off.

TBH, I don't buy it. However, I also don't think you are a Sith. If I'm wrong about the first, I'll sincerely apologize after the game.

Back from shoveling snow ... Mrs. Hoopsguy was getting frustrated that I wouldn't leave the computer to do this earlier :)

In terms of my suspicion level of Barkeep, it is probably a little bit lower than that of the collective opinion. If he is playing a wolf he is being a little more up-front than I have seen him be in the past. Not that he is a lurker as a wolf, but he is extending himself a little more than I am used to seeing. Interestingly, I'll be more suspicious of him if Dubb is a Sith, even though I was right with him in voting for Ardent.

That's fine. It did piss me off, maybe offend wasn't the word.

So where's the salad shooter? I want to see results gosh darn it.

Interesting. So dubb was playing the role of aux evil again. This puts things into a new light indeed.

For an explaination of my vote change, I became less convinced of my reason to suspect ardent and began to believe that ardent is a jedi, and with another candidate i the running that I was somewhat suspicious of in dubb, I decided to go with that option instead. Perhaps I made a huge mistake and lynched a jedi and let a sith go, but considering the circumstances I believed that my vote was better off being on dubb than ardent.

That said, I think we definitely need to follow cartman's lead and place high suspicion on qwikshot tomorrows lynch vote.

sorceror role?

Hmm. So the question for me is whether he was cursed, in which case I think little is learned from his action or the helper evil role in which case my suspcion is 100% back on hoops, or possibly qwik, as they would be the ones who he was willing to potentially sacrafice himself to save.

Now, I hope you will all leave me alone.

thats Master Salad Shooter!!!! :mad:

So he is evil, but not Sith. 3rd faction? Dark Jedi?

What is the "aux evil" in reference to? Thanks.

Third option, really cursed option variant. Dubb was in the process of converting to bad guy. During the sword fight last night the resolution was dubb agreeing to be trained in the dark side. So he wasn't quite evil yet hence the line "inablity to fully harness the power of the Dark Side" in the lynch suggesting that perhaps in a future day he would become a bad guy.

Auxurilly evil. Not a full fledged wolf, but something else. As an auxurilly evil you general win if the wolves win, but count as a villager. As posted above I see it possible for him to have either been this kind of role or cursed.

Nice try.

Well, pending night actions we may be heading towards that Barkeep/Hoopsguy showdown after all.

First time that we have struck at the enemies of the Jedi, so voting patterns should start to take on more value.

Assuming that the Sith knew the identity of Dubb, I would expect that mckerney vaults up the trusted list now.

Ardent moves up as well, although Dubb is crafty enough to provide cover for a Sith. Still, I'm inclined to put this as a fairly low likelihood.

I don't think we can assume at all that the sith knew Dubb was a bad guy unless you believe he was cursed and was the one attacked last night.

Dubb voted for Lathum the first 2 days since Lathum turned out to be a Jedi, I do not think we can learn anything from that.

Barkeep, if Dubb was the one in combat last night then his blade has changed colors. And the description in Post #493 doesn't read at all like a conversion to me.

Mckerney also voted for Dubb on Day 1 (post 229). He was the only person to vote for him prior to today, at least as the final vote. I haven't tracked all the changes, just the final votes.

I am quite sure that Dubb began our journey as a Jedi, yet was corrupted by the dishonorable Sith somewhere along the way. We must guard ourselves against this evil, but also resist fear and hatred, as they will only distract us and lead us to the dark side.

Forgot about the color of the lightsabers. Good catch hoops.

So that leaves either untapped cursed or sorcerer. I guess because he was acknowledged as evil that makes sorcerer the more likely role.

mckerney voted Qwik on day 2.

Today, 09:13 PM	#655
KWhit Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA Posts: 4,886	Quote: Originally Posted by Desnudo It's how he plays. Sow confusion. I don't (and never will) understand why some villagers/jedi/whatever would play this way. I find it completely unhelpful to the rest of the good guys. So either Ardent is a sith, or he's an unhelpful jedi keeping us from finding the sith. So he needs to go, IMO.

There was my original post that pissed you off so badly. If that offended you enough to call me a jerk, then you are far too sensitive, IMO. Oh well...

But I wonder what your thinking was. If you are a Jedi, then how does voting for yourself help us find the Sith? Unless you're the Duke and happen to know a sith to switch the vote too, I don't understand the logic of voting for yourself.

When you have the auxilary role, do the bad guys usually know who that person is? Meaning, they should have known that Dubb was really on their side. Or is it something that is usually hidden from the bad guys as well?

We haven't had the sorceror role in a game for awhile now. I believe the traditional rules with that is that neither side knows the identity of the other.

It seems like I have heard the sorcerer role reffered to as a seer for the bad guys. When you say sorcerer role, what do you mean?

Hoops is right that having neither side know the other is the most common way, but I'm 95% sure we have had games where the sorcerer knows the bad guys but the bad guys do not know the sorcerer. Might have even been game where dubb was the sorcerer and did a fake seer reveal.