I think the bribe urchin is out of the game, and roles like schmidty were the ones robbing people(like DC last night).

Well, I think the hand about the moon could represent the foggy night last night. As for the rest of it, I can't even take a meaning out of it. Just completely out of left field. Sounds like yours was out of left field too, especially when I remember someone having a dream that actually had substance to it and I believe they posted it earlier in the game.

My first visit to the opium den yielded, what turned out to be, a real occurrence (bullet and barkeep meeting), so the drugs are capable of giving us seer-like powers. I suspect it is something with very low odds, since, to my knowledge, no one else has had a realistic vision.

Yes. Blade visited me in the opium den.

Ill be to the point...much like i learned CWs role on night 1 after seeing him close up, i learned the other persons role after last night. To that end, i dont think its wise to discuss who or what that person is for the time being.

That's fine.

I was just hoping to expand my CoT a bit, but for the time being, I can understand.

Did anyone make a bid to the urchin(s) on day 2?

I wonder if the Chana part and how hot she "used to be" actually means she used to be a prostitute but maybe she is no longer? Meaning this person might have been converted?

I dunno, I'm looking at my PM and there's mention of Queen Victoria, Big Ben, London Bridge, a lot of fearful Londoners (which a lot of us are with all the robberies and killings and such), people looking different as if they were Japanese, and a tidal wave about to hit London.

Maybe the den part was an added flavor; my PM did say that taking opium might allow me to see something and I was hoping, really hoping that I'd get a vision :(

UNVOTE LSG
VOTE SALDANA

Bye bye sal.

From what i understand no one did..i bid 10 last night and failed, so saldana likely did bid his 13. I just dont think his mission failed, or that he followed me.

VOTE SALDANA
NO LYNCH SWAGGS

Insert obligatory pending further info clause here.

So saldana bid 13 shillings to kill the urchin? That's what it sounds like to me.

The reason I ask is because I bid on Day 2 and am curious to see if anyone else won/lost and, if so, what their bids were.

You must allow me my secrets hoops, it will be 2 of the past 3 days ive been one of the first 2 to vote a bad guy...so while i might be frustrating you(i certainly have lied and covered false tracks enough to up until now), im doing what i think is best for the side of good. Putting myself out to die basically to give you saldana is worth it for me, as with only 2 bad guys left after that the ratio victory for bad is pretty far off.

I dont think you can submit a bid to kill the urchin...i think he just said that to reason why him killing schmidty wouldnt make sense. I have no order to kill the urchin, and i whole heartedly expect whoever wins the bidding today to be able to hire the urchin.

If we havent heared by now id imagine the winner of that bid was a bad guy, possibly lathum. We know now saldana can spend money, so the other bad guys likely can too. We dont have a record of lathum spending any money, so a day 2 bid isnt out of the question.

I should rephrase that, so saldana bid 13 shilling to have blade followed, only to kill the person that was gonna give him info?

Not if you ask me. I think he submitted his bid to follow someone, someone mr. hyde would want info on(possibly me, becuase i hinted yesterday as to my real role). Then when he found out i saw what he did last night, he shifted his story to what you believe. I am under the impression the urchin we bribe is not in the game, becuase if they were they would be LOADED.

Hoops, do you see any way for Blade and LSG to be evil and trying to lynch saldana for some reason? Maybe saldana is bad but with his own victory condition (moriarty, maybe), and those two are trying to earn trust?

This is not what I asked. What I am curious is if you can identify the player(s) who can clear you.

Crap, forgot to bold:

VOTE SALDANA
NO LYNCH SWAGGS

He indentified me, so i would imagine he can identify the other. Why do you have such a vested interest in something i said was better left for another day?? :confused:

I can identify both players by name.

Perhaps we should hedge our bets and lynch saldana and Swaggs. :)

If we think of Barkeeps suggestion that Hyde may not be able to specify who he kills, it might just be that they were in the same area at the same time.....though to be fair, if you knew you couldn't specify you'd probably stay far away from the area where you knew the urchin you hired might be. Or maybe the area and victim for Hyde are random.....

Lynch swaggs and ill see to it you go down tomorrow.

Well, I was hoping he wouldn't identify the player(s) who could clear him, at least not yet. I was just curious if he could.

You can't do it if you're good.

To clarify, only evil can kill me! Muah, hahahahahahahahahaha!

He had already said he was going to leave it at that, so you prying further only makes you suspicious to me

Assumption is the root of all evil

It appears that a number of cots that I had identified have dissolved.

vote saldana

Still thinking about Swaggs. Earlier in the game there was a theory tossed about that the bad guys did not know one another. Does anybody still subscribe to that?

By the way, hoops or barkeep or whoever...i still want a list of who the prostitutes are. It would help immensely with my decision for my night action

I think Moriarty and Fagin know each other. Sherlock Holmes and Watson are a team, so maybe for game balance Mortiarty and Fagin know each other and can communicate?

:rolleyes:

Ok, fagin/moriarity/whoever you are. I believe you about saldana, and maybe about swaggs, but you are playing one strange game if you're a villager.

I have decided that I don't know who Sherlock and Watson are, my CoT have dissolved, and this is turning more interesting by the day!

Strange or not ive helped land 2 bad guys in the first 4 days...strange would be more like your style, which i cant even describe becuase you havent done anything

Yup, makes sense. The good guy wants info, and out comes the bad guy and blamo, smashes Schmidty to pieces.

Welcome back into WW RA, where everyday brings a complete tidal wave to your beliefs and makes you feel like someone is jackhammering your skull :)

For both to have information that condemn Saldana - if it turns out that somehow Saldana is not evil - would strongly imply at least one and likely both are evil. However, I don't think the bad guys get to play as factions, unless something like the werewolf has a one-time convert ability. So it would have to be two bad guys playing off one another (seems unlikely) or else one of them was fed fake evidence (probably even more likely).

Most likely scenario seems to be that both of them are telling the truth.

VOTE NO LYNCH SWAGGS
VOTE SALDANA

I think the sensation I'd be feeling right now if I was still alive would be like having an icepick jammed in my eye.

You keep saying that but the only bad person we've gotten has been Lathum... who was the other person?

I'm sure I posted it earlier, but here it is again. We started with four, I know three for sure through my interactions: me, Barkeep, and SnDvls. There is very strong evidence to suggest that Izulde is the 4th.

I dont mean sound discrediting to my own support, but LSG could very well be evil and figured out im good. Whats a great way to earn trust in that situation? Make up a story about seeing saldana kill swaggs, presenting no new evidence that i hadnt given, and then bask in the newfound trust. Im not saying shes evil, but she is still just about the bottom of my trust list with cronin and DC right now. She hasnt given anything that wasnt public knowledge, and in fact he claims to have done something no one else has yet done this game(witness a murder, that convenienty cancels any night actions, and just stayed home). To be honest, right now id place her as the person who killed mr. w, but thats a guess while swaggs and saldana are facts

Hoops, do you or the other prosties know who the bordello mum is? (or whatever that title is)

And Blade, please note, I am not asking you to name the player - just asking if hoops could.

Saldana, its day 4...so in the first 4 days would include today DC

DC?

Dodgerchick, who i was replying to

Nevermind... didn't read that right.

lol, you know what i feel like now? Heres a hint

Saldana, you just dealt with the dog :D

Oh, including today... okay. So what IF saldana ends up being good and you THINK it was saldana, then what? I noticed LSG said she THOUGHT it was saldana:


Isn't there a chance that the fog might have clouded your vision?

No, their is no chance of error on my part. LSG's THOUGHt comment just lends credit to the fact i think she might be another evil player.

I am 100% sure it was saldana who killed schmidty and 100% sure he is mr. hyde

OK, so Schmidty died in Commercial, while Swaggs was pulled from the Opium Den in Whitechapel. So I'm having a hard to reconciling how Blade's actions last night would have transpired in terms of learning about both Swaggs and Saldana.

The urchin was found dead not far from LoneStarGirl's house, per Post #1298, which supports her story. Both Blade and LSG are suggesting that Saldana killed Schmidty, which matches up well.

All in all, I'm a little more comfortable with the vote after reviewing the night post by Chief.

Nope, do not know if this role is in the game. Have no idea who may or may not have this role.

Want to hear a threory? Schmidty might have been trying to rob LSG or spy on her, when saldana killed him. Not neccessarily at saldana bidding, but it would explain something...for now though, im just having a hard time trusting LSG

I'm leaving to work the rest of my day. I'll be back about 8 EST. Just a thought here...


Out of 24 players, 10 are gone and only one was evil. The descriptions here worry me a bit since it's not a "SnDvls--Long Liz Stride, a prostitute, killed on Night Two". Do these descriptions lead anyone else to believe that the prosittutes can be evil?

For instance, could Moriarty be working with some of the prostitutes? I think it's a given that Fagin is working with some of the urchins...

The other thing we haven't discussed in-depth are the Masons...

I'm also thinking that perhaps we should go for Swaggs.

RA, where has the trust gone that you once had in me?

RA, I asked Chief about the prostitutes at the start of the game when I was wondering if Barkeep could be both a prostitute and a werewolf on Night 1. He told me (posted this in the thread earlier) that the prostitutes begin the game on the side of good.

If there is any kind of a conversion in the game then it is possible a prostitute could have been converted. But at least initially they were all good.

I'm game if you are. I just can't shake the feeling that Blade could of prehaps been converted. Even with giving us Saldana(if Saldana turns out bad) he could have been tipped off by Sal that the entire thing was witnessed by LSG. I just really don't know about Blade. He pushed way too hard for Alan and Barkeep in the past. And I believe both of those are good guys.

Killing swaggs will only bring the evil victory closer. You have to trust i am telling you what you need to know and not telling you what you dont.

At what point in the game would Blade have been converted, if you are working with that approach? Last night? I've seen him on both Nights 1 and 2, which I think reduces the likelihood of him being converted on those evenings.

Yes, a part of me thinks that Blade might be a mason. He seems to know a lot which, according to the description on page 1:

Yes, becuase my play has been so indicative of striving for simple survival :rolleyes:

Yall may not understand what i have done now, but when saldana shows up evil you will understand i have sacrificed myself for the village. When saldana dies bad, evil will come knocking. Mr. W is dead, and as such i am defenseless to stop them

Yes, but I'm sure you didn't see him the entire night. Just b/c you see him when you are working the street in one location doesn't mean he didn't go somewhere else and do something different.

Take last night for instance. Had you seen him commercial where he claims to have been to seen Saldana kill Schmidty I'm sure you would not have seen him in the opium den where he claims to have talked to Swaggs.

Can anyone verify that Blade was in commercial last night?

You and hoops gave us Lathum, you had a big hand in getting Alan killed (who was good)... so I dunno, just throwing something out there.

Who knows, maybe you AND hoops are freemasons. I have no clue.

By "you", I mean Blade.. I should have quoted that.

Izulde, do you have any idea why you were thrown in jail?

Dubb, I saw him on Night 1 making his way from Cavell to the scene of a murder.

I saw him on Night 2 initiating a conversation with Schmidty.

I did not see him at all on Night 3 (last night). I find last night as the most likely night to consider for this possibility. But that does not square with him going after Saldana when LSG also goes after Saldana, unless you expect the two of them are coordinating their attacks very openly. Doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not dismissing any chance of him being evil, but with the facts as I know them right now I don't think it is very likely he was converted. If there is a conversion out there then there are plenty of people who I can't place on any of three nights.

As the game is starting to move into a more manageable number, I wouldn't mind trying out an exercise if people are game. I'm going to list my activities, who I can vouch for, and who can vouch for me, for each night. I would encourage others to play along.

Night 0: Commercial, hooking
I see Barkeep and SnDvls. I score with Tyrith

Night 1: Cavell, hooking
I don't score at all. But I see Lathum, NTN, Blade, and Cronin all enter and leave the district

Night 2: Bishopsgate, hooking
I score with Path. I also see Barkeep get two clients. I see Cronin. I see Blade pull Schmidty from the shadows to initiate a conversation.

Night 3: Bishopsgate, hooking
I don't see anything except fog

I could overlay that information with financial stuff as well, but I know others are anxious about doing this. For those who want to figure it out, we get 5 shillings per trick. We lose 2 shillings every night.

Trust me, if i was converted you would be without every major role the good team posseses. I would have seen to that quickly

Hoops, I gave this info to Blade earlier today:


Night 3 - I went to the opium den, didn't see anyone. I don't think it's a secret that Izulde can vouch for me as he's done it a couple of times already.

dola,

forgot to add that I was robbed last night as well.

Night zero-Missed the deadline. I didn't actually show up in thread to play the game until day 1. Was a misunderstanding on my part.

Night 1-I was unsure on the mechanics and thought my best chance of making it through the night was to stay home and do nothing. So I did just that.

Night 2-Went out looking for a hooker. Saw DaddyTorgo and Izulde, the constanble shows up, breaks up DT and Izulde and arrests Izulde. I watched this with DC, Mr. Wed and Bullet. I return to Bishopsgate where I see Mr. Wed and he sees me.

Night 3-I visit the opium den. Have the crazy dream and return home. I see no one out and about.

So dubb, despite your 5 shilling statement that has earned you trust from most, you have done no action yet this game anyone can comfirm?

Well, Mr. Wed confirmed yesterday that he saw me when I claim I saw him. And everyone that witnessed the arrest of Izulde can confirm I was there I would believe.

But being out an about is not an action to me. I know you claim where you were going, but you have neither hired a prostitute who can clear you or hired the urchin with a bid we can generally confirm. Im not saying your damned, but thats not what i wanted to hear from someone i generally trusted

DC can you confirm I was with you when Izulde was arrested?

Actually, the first with the five shilling comment was Fouts. I believe Dubb was the first to mention opium on Day 1, but would have to look up the post to be certain on this point. I know there is one aspect of the "normal villager" role that Dubb was the first to mention on that day.

Mr. W saw me returning home. Izulde was my prostitute that night. Had she not been arrested I'm sure I was next in line after DT. I was looking for a prostitute and found one in Izulde. After she was arrested I went home where me and Mr. W bumped into each other. How many places can I go in one night? Those are 2 different locations, could I have possibly visited 3 or more?

And don't read anything into this. I know you don't pick a prostitute by name, you pick 2 locations to search for them in, it is just that after I found Izulde and she got arrested I returned home.

Night 0 -- look for prostitute in Commercial and Whitechapel. Hook up with Barkeep in Commercial. Barkeep tells me he saw Tyrith in Commercial.
Night 1 -- Opium den. See nobody.
Night 2 -- look for prostitute in Cavell and Bishopsgate. Hook up with hoops in Bishopsgate. Hoops tells me that Barkeep is a whore also. See nobody else.
Night 3 -- stay home, see nobody.

Path, glad I was able to give you such a primo secret.

You can imagine my delight. Apparently you were pretty good though, so that's something at least. ;)

Yes, I have stated several times that you, Mr. W, bullet and I all witnessed Izulde getting arrested.

That is correct hoops, I remember the same.

So much information in the PMs, I didn't notice that on Night 2 after striking out with Izulde, I go to Commercial but do not find a prostitute. I'm sure I've mentioned this before at some point.

I did, here it is... the "somewhere" was Commercial.

So is there pretty much no intrigue until i die tonight?

On that night I choose commerical and Bishopsgate. I guess I should come out and say I live in Bishopsgate.

After seeing that in commerical, my PM stated I returned to home to Bishopsgate where I saw Mr. W. It made no mention of looking for a prostitute but I assume I could have since my second location just happened to be my home area.

Blade: I don't get it. You're withholding information with the expectation that you die. What kind of play is that?

I didnt reveal that i knew NTN was inspector lestrande, i didnt reveal i knew mr. w was the watchman. Some information is better left not shared, even in death.

okay...summary please?? from what I saw while the page loaded blade is on the block? new developments?

And not revealing that proved REAL helpful. Like maybe the night watchman could have been watching for NTN's death if that information had been known.

Yes, because its always a good idea to reveal our seer on the off chance our bodyguard can protect him every night the rest of the game. Or reveal with your theory mr. w is the bodyguard so the bad guys can pick them both off on the same night and laugh away.

Im sorry, i dont know where your coming from in telling me I made a mistake in not revealing our seer and bodyguard on days 2 and 3...stunning to me you would suggest that really

No, blade's not on the block, but he apparently witnessed saldana killing Schmidty. LSG believes to have seen the same thing, as it happened right outside her pad.

Well, in fairness NTN was "brutaled" by Jack, so any knowledge of that could not have helped prevent a death.

When the postgame rolls around I'm going to be pretty interested in hearing what Blade knew when, and to try and put myself in his shoes. Because it has been alternately fascinating and frustrating to watch.

I guess that's a fair description of where I'm at.

Well I guess I might as well get this out there.

VOTE NO LYNCH SWAGGS

If the group believe Blade is still on the up and up I guess I'll roll with the group, although I still have my doubts. He's been a huge conversion target IMHO for days now.