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Thomkal 12-14-2018 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 3226137)
Trying to remember which Republican it was who bragged that they had years' worth of investigations against Clinton lined up in the event she became President.

But do as I say, not as I do, right?

Also, fuck Scott Walker.



It was Jason Chaffetz of Utah, who gladly no longer serves in Congress. But sadly works for Fox now.

Thomkal 12-14-2018 02:35 PM

Mueller's office responds to Flynn's sentencing memo where he was asking for no prison term, and made it pretty clear when Flynn was lying and how someone with his experience should have ever met the FBI without a lawyer present, or known not to lie to the FBI at all:


Special counsel Robert Mueller's team: FBI interview did not lead Michael Flynn to 'make false statements' - ABC News

Thomkal 12-14-2018 04:46 PM

Well add another job to Mike Mulvaney's Trump resume-Acting Chief of Staff:


I am pleased to announce that Mick Mulvaney, Director of the Office of Management & Budget, will be named Acting White House Chief of Staff, replacing General John Kelly, who has served our Country with distinction. Mick has done an outstanding job while in the Administration....

Thomkal 12-14-2018 04:47 PM

This after Chris Christie, Rick Santorum, Mark Meadows, and almost any Republican out there turned him down.

digamma 12-14-2018 05:39 PM

How will he have time to get his Learned League answers in?

PilotMan 12-14-2018 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma (Post 3226148)
How will he have time to get his Learned League answers in?


Staffers

NobodyHere 12-14-2018 08:51 PM

It seems to me that this has potential to be big (or huuuuuuuuuuge) news

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/14/h...xas-judge.html

Shkspr 12-14-2018 09:49 PM

You shop around enough, eventually someone offers you a good deal.

JPhillips 12-14-2018 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3226164)
It seems to me that this has potential to be big (or huuuuuuuuuuge) news

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/14/h...xas-judge.html


Maybe, but the someone at the WH understands the shit show this would lead to both in terms of the health care system and the political future of the GOP.

Quote:

*WHITE HOUSE: OBAMACARE LAW REMAINS IN PLACE PENDING APPEAL

Edward64 12-15-2018 07:48 AM

Oh great. Another 2 years of this at least. Surprised this didn't happen before in the past 2 years.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/polit...uit/index.html
Quote:

A federal judge in Texas said on Friday that the Affordable Care Act's individual coverage mandate is unconstitutional and that the rest of the law therefore cannot stand.

Legal experts say the ruling won't immediately affect Americans' health coverage, and a group of states led by California is already vowing to appeal. But the invalidation of the landmark health care law popularly known as Obamacare throws into doubt the future of health coverage for millions of Americans on the Obamacare exchanges and in Medicaid expansion.

The ruling and expected appeal sets up another cliffhanger in which the fate of the law, which Republicans have unsuccessfully tried to repeal for years, will likely once again ultimately lie with the Supreme Court.

Chief Justice John Roberts cast the deciding vote leaving the law intact in 2012, but it's unclear how the justices will view this challenge, which centers on changes to the individual mandate that were baked into the 2017 tax reform.

President Donald Trump, who campaigned in 2016 on a promise to undo Obamacare, was thwarted in Congress last year by a lone vote from the late Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain.

Trump immediately tweeted in celebration on Friday and called on Congress to act.

"As I predicted all along, Obamacare has been struck down as an UNCONSTITUTIONAL disaster! Now Congress must pass a STRONG law that provides GREAT healthcare and protects pre-existing conditions. Mitch and Nancy, get it done!" Trump wrote.

PilotMan 12-15-2018 08:13 AM

To be fair, it's only ruled unconstitutional because the administration took away the provisions that protect people, and stopped enforcing the individual mandate.

Kind of hard to drive a car when you take the air out of the tires and put a hole in the gas tank.

PilotMan 12-15-2018 08:47 AM

Zinke is gone under the cloud of another scandal.

Only the very best people.

Thomkal 12-15-2018 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3226184)
Zinke is gone under the cloud of another scandal.

Only the very best people.



Very glad to see this. He rivaled Scott Pruitt in corruption, but will have surpassed him in terms of legacy-his/Trump's policies towards things like land use is beyond frightening.

digamma 12-15-2018 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3226181)
To be fair, it's only ruled unconstitutional because the administration took away the provisions that protect people, and stopped enforcing the individual mandate.

Kind of hard to drive a car when you take the air out of the tires and put a hole in the gas tank.


Yeah the reporting on this is not very good.

miami_fan 12-15-2018 07:29 PM

Ryan pushes for thousands of Irish visas before leaving office - POLITICO

Thomkal 12-15-2018 07:55 PM

NY Times saying Mick Mulvaney openly lobbied for the job and used this as his convincer-only person leading an agency who hasn't been mired in scandal. Which is just a pathetic way to lobby for a job.

JPhillips 12-16-2018 11:14 AM

Quote:

“Did Roger Stone ever give the President a heads up on Wikileaks leaks concerning Hillary Clinton and the DNC?” ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos asked Giuliani in an interview Sunday.

“No he didn’t,” Giuliani said. “I don’t believe so.”

“But again,” he continued, “if Roger Stone gave anybody a heads up about Wikileaks leaks, that’s not a crime. It would be like giving him a heads up that the Times is going to print something.”

I'm so old I remember when the idea of this was a ridiculous conspiracy theory. How long until Giuliani says working with Wikileaks and the GRU isn't a crime?

JPhillips 12-16-2018 12:10 PM

dola

The biggest religious schism in centuries just happened. The Russian Orthodox Church has split from global orthodoxy after Ukraine's split from the Russian patriarch.

BishopMVP 12-16-2018 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3226246)
dola

The biggest religious schism in centuries just happened. The Russian Orthodox Church has split from global orthodoxy after Ukraine's split from the Russian patriarch.

Didn't that happen in October? I'm not I understand all the technical distinctions, but it does seem like tensions are rising again in Eastern Ukraine. The world already showed it's colors when the Crimea annexation happened, so I'm more surprised Russia hadn't just kept pushing earlier.

bbgunn 12-16-2018 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3226087)
Honestly though, what exactly are you expecting from "free" media? I think people are starting to feel entitled to quality reporting but don't actually want to pay for it. I admit I'm as much part of the problem as anyone.


Not expecting anything from "free" media, just kind of lamenting what has happened here. You see long-time, reputable, subscription newspapers go the free media route based on ad clicks. That's what I'm sad about. And most people get their news from such sites these days, instead of really thinking about their news sources.

Thomkal 12-17-2018 09:57 AM

A good reason Michael Flynn deserves some jail time-his role in lobbying for Turkey-including getting enemies of the Turkish State extradited back to Turkey:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.d54eb9b0e7bb


kind of being forgotten in all of his plea deals with Mueller

ISiddiqui 12-17-2018 10:06 AM

A lot of the reputable subscription newspapers have gone pay to read though - New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Boston Globe, LA Times, etc.

BillJasper 12-17-2018 03:37 PM

Holy shit! This place is still going? :lol:

RainMaker 12-17-2018 03:42 PM

Another day of big losses in the market. Down for the year now.

Also we're borrowing money from China to pay farmers that got screwed over by the trade war with China.



Thomkal 12-17-2018 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillJasper (Post 3226312)
Holy shit! This place is still going? :lol:



Trump's good for business around here )

BillJasper 12-17-2018 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3226317)
Trump's good for business around here )


I'd guess so. Hopefully everyone is living the dream in Trumptopia!

Drake 12-17-2018 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3226300)
A lot of the reputable subscription newspapers have gone pay to read though - New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Boston Globe, LA Times, etc.


I forget this all the time. My work (university) has subscriptions to all of the major newspapers that automatically pass IPs in our range, so pretty much any article I want to read, I'm just silently passed through to read it. It's only when I'm at home that I go, "Oh, that's not free?"

Thomkal 12-17-2018 08:35 PM

So something happened with the Flynn sentencing today-whole lot of legal stuff that I don't know much about, but the judge ordered some documents released, mostly unredacted as the judge feels the public deserves to know what's in them.



This got the legal minds on twitter in an uproar, mostly against Flynn and his lawyers, and many think the judge may go above Mueller's recommendations tomorrow and give Flynn more jail time than expected. Here's one guy's thoughts:


Mike Flynn Steps in It: In a Bid to Feed the Frothy Right, He Leads to Release of Damning New Details Showing He Lied to Protect Trump | emptywheel

RainMaker 12-17-2018 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3226334)
So something happened with the Flynn sentencing today-whole lot of legal stuff that I don't know much about, but the judge ordered some documents released, mostly unredacted as the judge feels the public deserves to know what's in them.



This got the legal minds on twitter in an uproar, mostly against Flynn and his lawyers, and many think the judge may go above Mueller's recommendations tomorrow and give Flynn more jail time than expected. Here's one guy's thoughts:


Mike Flynn Steps in It: In a Bid to Feed the Frothy Right, He Leads to Release of Damning New Details Showing He Lied to Protect Trump | emptywheel


I don't think we're going to end our long standing tradition of rich, powerful men being immune from going to prison.

JPhillips 12-18-2018 07:33 AM

Quote:

I hope the people over at the Fed will read today’s Wall Street Journal Editorial before they make yet another mistake. Also, don’t let the market become any more illiquid than it already is. Stop with the 50 B’s. Feel the market, don’t just go by meaningless numbers. Good luck!

Just the kind of advice you expect from a guy that couldn't turn a profit with a casino.

PilotMan 12-18-2018 08:02 AM

The stock market is on pace for the worst December since 1931, during the Great Depression.

BYU 14 12-18-2018 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3226315)
Another day of big losses in the market. Down for the year now.

Also we're borrowing money from China to pay farmers that got screwed over by the trade war with China.




The guy that shows up with a fire hose to extinguish the blaze he started then demands a heroes reception.

lungs 12-18-2018 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU 14 (Post 3226361)
The guy that shows up with a fire hose to extinguish the blaze he started then demands a heroes reception.


He doesn't need to demand it. Farmers are singing his praises for coming through on his promises. And when somebody points out that it's a problem he started, they are labeled unpatriotic. Russia good, China bad.

Thomkal 12-18-2018 08:58 AM

So we didn't even talk about this yesterday-the Senate Intelligence Committee did their job and reported in a bipartisan way on Russian inflence in the 2016 election and after-targeting Mueller. Shouldn't really be a surprise at what they found:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...=.277d4eb24336


https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.ca20107a9794

Thomkal 12-18-2018 09:00 AM

Flynn sentencing around 11 am today

PilotMan 12-18-2018 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3226367)
So we didn't even talk about this yesterday-the Senate Intelligence Committee did their job and reported in a bipartisan way on Russian inflence in the 2016 election and after-targeting Mueller. Shouldn't really be a surprise at what they found:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...=.277d4eb24336


https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.ca20107a9794



Funny thing that it dovetails with Trump's approach all along. Hmmmm?

Thomkal 12-18-2018 09:53 AM

Trump Admin signals its backing down on its shutdowm threat and Sarah Sanders says they have found other ways to fund the wall. I'm sure all of which are legal and not ethics violations.

Thomkal 12-18-2018 09:58 AM

New York AG announces That Trump has agreed to shut down its charity:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.1f5dcbf50e02

Thomkal 12-18-2018 10:25 AM

And as Flynn is getting sentenced, the White House releases its Christmas portrait.

Thomkal 12-18-2018 10:38 AM

Flynn admits to judge that he knew lying to the FBI was a crime and he does not want to challenge the means by which the FBI questioned him. Flynn's attorney forced to do so as well.

Thomkal 12-18-2018 10:54 AM

Judge asks Mueller's lawyers if Flynn could have been sentenced under the indictment unsealed yesterday against Flynn's business partners-they say yes-looks like the judge is not happy with either side here

Thomkal 12-18-2018 11:01 AM

Trump Admin moving to ban bump stocks-boy he's really trying to take away coverage of the Flynn sentencing

cartman 12-18-2018 11:02 AM

"Arguably, you sold your country out," Sullivan said. "The court's going to consider all that. I cannot assure you that if you proceed today you will not receive a sentence of incarceration."

He went on:

"I'm not hiding my disgust, my disdain for this criminal offense."

Thomkal 12-18-2018 11:03 AM

Judge really going after Flynn hard, arguably "you sold out your country"

JPhillips 12-18-2018 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3226380)
Trump Admin moving to ban bump stocks-boy he's really trying to take away coverage of the Flynn sentencing


Must be destroyed or surrendered to the government?

Well, there's another lawsuit Trump will lose.

And I'm sure the NRA will be out with their jackbooted government thugs rhetoric soon.

Thomkal 12-18-2018 11:09 AM

Judge asks Mueller's team if there was any other laws like the Logan Act he could have been charged with and be charged with treason for interfering with Obama's sanctions against Russia-Mueller's team didn't want to go there...and now they are in recess until 12:30 at Flynn's lawyers request. Good I can go eat lunch now

Thomkal 12-18-2018 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3226383)
Must be destroyed or surrendered to the government?

Well, there's another lawsuit Trump will lose.

And I'm sure the NRA will be out with their jackbooted government thugs rhetoric soon.



Don't know-I didn't get distracted by the Flynn sentencing to see :)

PilotMan 12-18-2018 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3226375)
New York AG announces That Trump has agreed to shut down its charity:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.1f5dcbf50e02





NobodyHere 12-18-2018 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman (Post 3226381)
"Arguably, you sold your country out," Sullivan said. "The court's going to consider all that. I cannot assure you that if you proceed today you will not receive a sentence of incarceration."

He went on:

"I'm not hiding my disgust, my disdain for this criminal offense."


I think someone here is lobbying for a higher job...

RainMaker 12-18-2018 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3226382)
Judge really going after Flynn hard, arguably "you sold out your country"


Gave him a stern lecture and then sent him home. Justice served!

RainMaker 12-18-2018 04:13 PM



RainMaker 12-18-2018 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3226315)
Another day of big losses in the market. Down for the year now.

Also we're borrowing money from China to pay farmers that got screwed over by the trade war with China.




Just want to add to this that no one on the right demanding these farmers take drug tests to receive their welfare checks. Odd.

JPhillips 12-18-2018 04:13 PM

And don't even get me started on Bitcoin!

Thomkal 12-18-2018 04:32 PM

A little bit of info came out on the mystery subpoena case last week-no names yet-but its a company owned by a country. Court dismissed "company A's" attempt to quash the subpoena, and held them in contempt for failing to comply with a subpoena-they have a daily fine for each day they don't.

Edward64 12-18-2018 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3226432)
And don't even get me started on Bitcoin!


Thought about dabbling this time last year but never did. Are you a hodler?

Thomkal 12-18-2018 09:32 PM

So CNN has given Trump another reason to hate them. Chris Cuomo on his show tonight was talking about a letter of intent to move forward on the Moscow Trump Tower. People have known about this document since last year I think. The only problem was that it wasn't signed by anybody. Not sure how he got his hands on it, but tonight Cuomo has a copy of the letter of intent signed by Donald Trump:


Chris Cuomo Shows Signed Intent Letter for Trump Tower Russia

JPhillips 12-18-2018 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3226438)
Thought about dabbling this time last year but never did. Are you a hodler?


No no no.

I still don't understand what value Bitcoin has outside of a speculative investment, so I'll be having none of that, thank you.

lungs 12-18-2018 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3226452)
No no no.

I still don't understand what value Bitcoin has outside of a speculative investment, so I'll be having none of that, thank you.


Bitcoin has been split a zillion times now. It seems like the decentralized wet dream just results in constant splits. Disagreement arises and the group that loses starts their own Bitcoin. I never stuck a penny in Bitcoin. I've done well on my XRP and XLM investments. Now, if I would've stopped there...... but I invested in a bunch of shit coins in the middle of the bull run. I've since converted them all to XRP and XLM. XRP has some interesting use case in moving money around (and saving banks money in the process). XLM is similar to XRP and has done some work with IBM.

I thought the platforms might be worthwhile but they seem to only be platforms for others to create their own shit coins.

Fidatelo 12-19-2018 07:11 AM

BitCoin is the worst, fuck that noise. Environment in the shitter? Let's double down and use all the electricity to make a fake currency that only criminals use. Good job, humanity.

Butter 12-19-2018 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo (Post 3226472)
BitCoin is the worst, fuck that noise. Environment in the shitter? Let's double down and use all the electricity to make a fake currency that only criminals use. Good job, humanity.


This is also how I understand Bitcoin, which is probably overly simplistic. I know I could pay my Dish Network bill with it if I wanted, or play poker with it, but other than that I don't know what use there is for it.

PilotMan 12-19-2018 07:27 AM

Meanwhile..


Yesterday the WH gave it's first 'daily' press briefing in 3 weeks, and it lasted all of 15 minutes, with next to nothing outside of just basic statements and generic answers.

JPhillips 12-19-2018 08:18 AM

SC and NH are looking to curtail or cancel their GOP presidential primaries. Trump can't lose a primary if their aren't any primaries!

JPhillips 12-19-2018 02:00 PM

Trump apparently is leaving Syria and this afternoon decided that Rusal, a Russian aluminum company will no longer be subject to sanctions.

Somebody's scared that Daddy Putin is going to reveal everything.

albionmoonlight 12-19-2018 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3226481)
SC and NH are looking to curtail or cancel their GOP presidential primaries. Trump can't lose a primary if their aren't any primaries!


My memory does not go back before Reagan, but I can't think of one of the two major parties being more beholden to its leader than the current GOP is to Trump. I mean, as a party, you want to support your President. But the idea of canceling your primaries just to avoid any chance of a challenge to him? Not even Reagan or Obama got that kind of treatment.

albionmoonlight 12-19-2018 02:28 PM

dola:

And put me in the camp of parties are private actors and can do what they want. There is nothing "illegal" or "undemocratic" about choosing to pick a nominee through something other than voting. I'm more interested in it as a symbol of how top-down the GOP has become in the age of Trump.

RainMaker 12-19-2018 03:01 PM

Bitcoin is good for funding my sportsbook and getting money out because this country won't let me bet on a football game.

ISiddiqui 12-19-2018 03:03 PM

Looks like we are getting out of Syria:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/u...gtype=Homepage

Though saying "We have defeated ISIS in Syria" seems like something that would bite someone in the ass.

ISiddiqui 12-19-2018 04:22 PM



miami_fan 12-19-2018 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3226374)
Trump Admin signals its backing down on its shutdowm threat and Sarah Sanders says they have found other ways to fund the wall. I'm sure all of which are legal and not ethics violations.


GoFundMe Page For Donald Trump’s Border Wall Raises More Than $900K in 3 Days

UPDATE: $1,374,544 raised as of this post.

NobodyHere 12-19-2018 09:13 PM

I can assume that the people funding the wall are Mexicans like Trump promised right?

cuervo72 12-19-2018 09:58 PM

I mean, if his supporters want to give money to build it, have at it. HOpefully some of them are rich and can kick in a sizable chunk. Big gap between $5B and $1.37M.

bhlloy 12-20-2018 12:32 AM

I really try to keep the outrage and the hyperbole with Trump to a minimum, but between leaving Canada completely out to dry while talking about coming to an agreement over the Huawei affair (ironically talking about using it to ease the Chinese sanctions while leaving the Canadian ones in place) and pulling out of Syria against pretty much everyone's advice allowing Russia and Iran to fill the power void (and Turkey to slaughter the Kurds most likely) I have no idea who the hell our allies are any more. Feels like the US has gone from the world benevolent policeman to a crooked cop willing to change direction daily based on the direction of a rich mafia boss.

whomario 12-20-2018 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter (Post 3226473)
This is also how I understand Bitcoin, which is probably overly simplistic. I know I could pay my Dish Network bill with it if I wanted, or play poker with it, but other than that I don't know what use there is for it.


Technology behind it could be incredibly usefull though once you figure out a way to curb the energy demands.

albionmoonlight 12-20-2018 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3226494)
My memory does not go back before Reagan, but I can't think of one of the two major parties being more beholden to its leader than the current GOP is to Trump. I mean, as a party, you want to support your President. But the idea of canceling your primaries just to avoid any chance of a challenge to him? Not even Reagan or Obama got that kind of treatment.


Actually, further digging shows that the SC GOP cancelled its primary for W. Bush's re-election. So this may be more of a case of normal things happening around Trump, but because he's Trump, they become newsworthy.

JPhillips 12-20-2018 07:21 AM

But circumstances matter. In 2004 there was no hint of a credible primary opponent to W. In 2020 there will almost certainly be a decent name running against Trump. I would still expect Trump to win, but I'd be shocked if there isn't a credible challenge.

Lathum 12-20-2018 08:10 AM

I’m so embarrassed to live in a country where after the last two years we have had it’s a cinch Trump is going to win the primary.

JPhillips 12-20-2018 08:55 AM

Quote:

.@LindseyGrahamSC just told me to expect him to tweet back at the president every time he tweets about Syria. "I'm not letting this go."

Lindsey's using every tool he has, even TWEETING!

Ben E Lou 12-20-2018 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3226551)
Lindsey's using every tool he has, even TWEETING!

Serious question, as I have not dug into the options here. What CAN Congress do about this one that's reasonable and doesn't set a hideous precedent? I mean, I don't want them declaring war or using the 25th amendment over this. Are there other options better than putting public pressure on Trump?

albionmoonlight 12-20-2018 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy (Post 3226536)
I really try to keep the outrage and the hyperbole with Trump to a minimum, but between leaving Canada completely out to dry while talking about coming to an agreement over the Huawei affair (ironically talking about using it to ease the Chinese sanctions while leaving the Canadian ones in place) and pulling out of Syria against pretty much everyone's advice allowing Russia and Iran to fill the power void (and Turkey to slaughter the Kurds most likely) I have no idea who the hell our allies are any more. Feels like the US has gone from the world benevolent policeman to a crooked cop willing to change direction daily based on the direction of a rich mafia boss.


I think that a future President will be able to undo a lot of the damage that Trump caused.

What I don't think that any President will be able to do is convince the rest of the world that we won't elect another Trump to re-do all the damage. Even now, 45% of the country is happy he's President and hopes to re-elect him.

Edward64 12-20-2018 09:57 AM

I am supportive of us getting out of Syria and don't think anyone here would disagree. I don't think Trump should have done it unilaterally (seemingly surprising everyone) but the ultimate end goal is good.

Its a no win situation there.
  • Assad is still in power (part of that blame goes to Obama)
  • ISIL is pretty much defeated although their tentacles remain (and Obama gets some credit and also some blame, I'll give most of the credit to Obama for defeating ISIL from Iraq)
  • Syria has been in Russia's sphere of influence for a while and has Russian support (the opportunity to topple Assad is long gone) and don't see it as a big con that Russia continues their influence

With that said, what would you have the US do? It seems leaving is better than another endless low-intensity conflict that we have in Afghanistan.

My best guess is Trump will back off from a complete withdrawal eventually after consulting with allies - Jordan, Israel, and SA.

jeff061 12-20-2018 10:35 AM

Quote:

I am supportive of us getting out of Syria and don't think anyone here would disagree. I don't think Trump should have done it unilaterally (seemingly surprising everyone) but the ultimate end goal is good.

Every single person that Trump listened told him not to withdraw(including Mattis), all of the GOP has come out against it, all our allies have come out against it, most of these people have said it's worse than Obama's withdrawal from Iraq. Unilateral is an understatement. Has anyone said it's a good idea other than Russia?

So no, I don't agree. Assuming this goes forward, I can't any longer say this buffoon is all bark and no bite.

Edward64 12-20-2018 11:32 AM

So what do you think is a realistic end game here?

kingfc22 12-20-2018 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3226506)



Just shut it already Rubio. He's gone along for the ride at every single turn.

Show me something with action first other than just the wasteful gum flapping.

panerd 12-20-2018 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy (Post 3226536)
I really try to keep the outrage and the hyperbole with Trump to a minimum, but between leaving Canada completely out to dry while talking about coming to an agreement over the Huawei affair (ironically talking about using it to ease the Chinese sanctions while leaving the Canadian ones in place) and pulling out of Syria against pretty much everyone's advice allowing Russia and Iran to fill the power void (and Turkey to slaughter the Kurds most likely) I have no idea who the hell our allies are any more. Feels like the US has gone from the world benevolent policeman to a crooked cop willing to change direction daily based on the direction of a rich mafia boss.


You seriously believe this was the case pre-2016? I will even leave '08-'16 Obama out of it due to the liberal slant of the board (even though without question it wasn't a benevolent foreign policy) So I will just ask this... W. Bush was leading the benevolent policing of the world? Oh my.

Define benevolent: well meaning and kindly, serving a charitable rather than a profit-making purpose.

stevew 12-20-2018 01:11 PM

So now he's not going to sign the budget Gap hey

bhlloy 12-20-2018 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3226587)
You seriously believe this was the case pre-2016? I will even leave '08-'16 Obama out of it due to the liberal slant of the board (even though without question it wasn't a benevolent foreign policy) So I will just ask this... W. Bush was leading the benevolent policing of the world? Oh my.

Define benevolent: well meaning and kindly, serving a charitable rather than a profit-making purpose.


Maybe benevolent wasn't at all the right word, but I'll stand by the intent. Enabling Syria, Russia, Iran and Turkey to murder children and China to arrest Canadian citizens over a request that came from the US State Department in the first place is a startling departure from previous US policy.

Even under W, and I hold the second Iraq war in about as much disdain as I possibly could.

bhlloy 12-20-2018 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3226574)
So what do you think is a realistic end game here?


I don't know if there is one immediately apparent, but keeping a relatively small number of US boots on the ground and the threat of US air strikes is a pretty small price to pay for not allowing children and families to be gassed in their homes or a minority group that has been allies of the US for the last 20 years to be slaughtered in a third country by a country with history of genocide.

That's even before considering the message this sends to the rest of the world, firstly that Russia now pretty much owns US foreign policy and secondly that if you run into any issues, look to Russia and China before us because unless it's in our president's interest we couldn't give two flying fucks.

Ben E Lou 12-20-2018 01:32 PM



JPhillips 12-20-2018 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3226553)
Serious question, as I have not dug into the options here. What CAN Congress do about this one that's reasonable and doesn't set a hideous precedent? I mean, I don't want them declaring war or using the 25th amendment over this. Are there other options better than putting public pressure on Trump?


I'll admit it's difficult. With any other President they could threaten to withhold X,Y, or Z unless the policy was reviewed and/or changed, but I'm not sure there's anything Trump would give a damn about losing or not getting passed. I expect the only things with teeth involve investigations, and the GOP loses too if Trump goes down in flames.

So, yeah, it's hard, but threatening to tweet is about the least useful option.

JPhillips 12-20-2018 02:08 PM

dola

Shutting down the government and running off to play golf at Mar-a-Lago is the perfect visual for this GOP.

edit: But I'm sure he'll give in tomorrow. Everybody now knows he's all bark and no bite.

Jas_lov 12-20-2018 04:25 PM

Jim Mattis retiring in February.

kingfc22 12-20-2018 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas_lov (Post 3226615)
Jim Mattis retiring in February.


Resigns the day after the Syria decision. Just add Mattis as Exhibit 1,253,021,186,151 to the list of examples on how this is a one-man show in the White House that nobody can control. And one where the Republican party is wholly responsible for as they have been spineless for the 2 years where they had control and could have reigned this in a bit.

Ben E Lou 12-20-2018 04:42 PM

His resignation letter:

Katherine Faulders on Twitter: "! This line of Mattis resignation letter (h/t @Elizabeth_McLau): “Because you have the right to have a Secretary of Defense whose views are better aligned with yours on these and other subjects, I believe it is right for me to step down from my position.”… https://t.co/uA6cpfvhxA"

digamma 12-20-2018 04:47 PM

The Mattis letter is forceful. It's not a good day for the country.

Thomkal 12-20-2018 04:54 PM

Trump tweeting something nasty about Mattis in 3,2,1...

RainMaker 12-20-2018 05:07 PM

Markets took another bath today. Don't look at your retirement accounts if you want a nice holiday.

Ben E Lou 12-20-2018 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma (Post 3226618)
The Mattis letter is forceful. It's not a good day for the country.

Yeah, that thing reads as "I believe in honor, loyalty, respect, wisdom, courage, etc. You don't, and you deserve someone like you in this position."

Ben E Lou 12-20-2018 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3226619)
Trump tweeting something nasty about Mattis in 3,2,1...

I'm thinking it'll be tomorrow, unless he watches TV tonight. He won't understand how harsh Mattis's letter is until the talking heads say it.

spleen1015 12-20-2018 05:36 PM

As someone ignorant to politics, I don't get it. He's one man. If no one supports him how can he get anything done? I know he's the president and he has certain powers, but hell man, no one help the guy out, everyone stand up to him and let's move on.

Not that simple?

bhlloy 12-20-2018 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015 (Post 3226627)
As someone ignorant to politics, I don't get it. He's one man. If no one supports him how can he get anything done? I know he's the president and he has certain powers, but hell man, no one help the guy out, everyone stand up to him and let's move on.

Not that simple?


No, because he has the rabid, undying support of (pick a number between 20 and 40) percent of the electorate, and people are terrified that standing against him means they don't get those votes for the next 20 years. Combine that with nearly all politicians being willing to do pretty much whatever it takes to get elected again, I don't think it's a hard equation to figure out.


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