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-   -   The Biden Presidency - 2020 (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=97045)

Brian Swartz 02-04-2023 07:22 PM

Biden has underperformed my expectations, but of course been way better than Trump. I don't want him to run again just because I think his age is an issue at this point.

Democrats who can beat Trump at this point include basically anyone with a pulse. It would be possible to lose to him, but you'd have to really work hard at it. I don't think even Hillary could pull it off.

Ksyrup 02-04-2023 07:23 PM

I agree. Harris is a negative. I can't tell you how many Never Trumpers were good with Biden but had an extreme dislike for Harris. Plus, she didn't even do well in the primaries, and the potential future president thing is going to be a big deal in the next election. He would be well-served to move on from her.

Edward64 02-04-2023 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3392313)
Democrats who can beat Trump at this point include basically anyone with a pulse. It would be possible to lose to him, but you'd have to really work hard at it. I don't think even Hillary could pull it off.


Kamala?

Galaril 02-04-2023 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3392312)
Biden has exceeded my overall expectations (not stumbling too much, bipartisan deals, foreign policy, and especially vs China) and stands the best chance of beating Trump, so I do want him to run again (unless he significantly declines).

I would strongly prefer another VP though as the backup, Kamala does not fill me with confidence.

It would be good for Biden to delay formally announcing until the very last minute just to see how Trump is doing in the GOP.


If he runs I would like to see him pick Whitmer or Kelly as his VP.

Brian Swartz 02-04-2023 08:18 PM

The thing about Kamala is, you don't dump a sitting VP the same way a sitting President doesn't not run for re-election. I view them as a package deal. We either get Biden/Harris or neither of them.

@Edward64 - as a national politician, I agree with you on Kamala. She's on the short list of Democrats that I think Trump would stand a chance against.

Ksyrup 02-04-2023 08:19 PM

That's conventional thinking, but not necessarily a winning strategy. We'll see which one they care more about.

Ksyrup 02-04-2023 08:20 PM

It's uniquely important with an 82 year old starting a 4 year term.

Brian Swartz 02-04-2023 08:23 PM

I don't disagree with you on either point. I also don't see any way it happens. There are some things you just don't do in politics, even if you know you should.

flere-imsaho 02-04-2023 09:15 PM

I mean, even Trump didn't switch out his VP for his second campaign, and he broke almost every other "rule" that existed.

albionmoonlight 02-04-2023 09:19 PM

Good rule of thumb:

Quote:

The hysteria of various politicians during the balloon episode is a useful index of how seriously you should take them

Ghost Econ 02-05-2023 07:15 AM

404 - File or directory not found.

Quote:

The balloon did not pose a military or physical threat. Still its intrusion into American airspace over several days was an unacceptable violation of U.S. sovereignty. The official said Chinese balloons briefly transited the continental United States at least three times during the prior administration.

I look forward to seeing how this lowers Edward64's opinion of Joe Biden.

SirFozzie 02-05-2023 08:05 AM

File under "You don't actually have to hand it to them."

It's gotta be frustrating to the R's that every time they get mad at something Biden did or didn't do and say "THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED UNDER A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION". it turns out shortly thereafter that, yeah, it happened multiple times in a Trump Administration. It's like a dragon stoking the fire then trips and actually swallows its own fire.

Ksyrup 02-05-2023 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho (Post 3392325)
I mean, even Trump didn't switch out his VP for his second campaign, and he broke almost every other "rule" that existed.


Because Pence was useful up to that point to appeal to mainstream GOPers. There was no reason.

Ksyrup 02-05-2023 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie (Post 3392339)
File under "You don't actually have to hand it to them."

It's gotta be frustrating to the R's that every time they get mad at something Biden did or didn't do and say "THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED UNDER A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION". it turns out shortly thereafter that, yeah, it happened multiple times in a Trump Administration. It's like a dragon stoking the fire then trips and actually swallows its own fire.


It's still useful at the time as a cheap sound bite when their voting public doesn't care about the facts anyway. They see these points made on GOP media and dont see the aftermath when the truth is reported in mainstream media or these people fumble all over themselves answering questions on Meet the Press.

Edward64 02-05-2023 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ (Post 3392337)
404 - File or directory not found.

I look forward to seeing how this lowers Edward64's opinion of Joe Biden.


Hey, I like Joe. As a whole he has many more pluses than minuses.

But to respond, it doesn’t. Joe wanted it shot down, experts said wait because not worth the risk. They publicly came out and said they told Joe this. I’m okay with that.

Now I do have doubts if the military actually knew about the balloon when they should have e.g. before entering US space.

Lathum 02-05-2023 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie (Post 3392339)
File under "You don't actually have to hand it to them."

It's gotta be frustrating to the R's that every time they get mad at something Biden did or didn't do and say "THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED UNDER A TRUMP ADMINISTRATION". it turns out shortly thereafter that, yeah, it happened multiple times in a Trump Administration. It's like a dragon stoking the fire then trips and actually swallows its own fire.


They don't exist in reality. These are the same people holding SS hostage to get what they want when we need to raise the debt ceiling because THEIR guy is responsible for 25% of the total debt with nothing to show but tax cuts for the rich. These people aren't in any way grounded in reality

flere-imsaho 02-05-2023 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3392327)
Good rule of thumb:


I'm honestly surprised that MTG didn't suggest Biden use his Jewish Space Lasers to shoot it down. Missed opportunity.

Edward64 02-05-2023 10:42 PM

Pretty good news. Not sure it’s that significant because Trump likely has other sources but good that more money will go to another GOP other than Trump.

Quote:

The deep-pocketed network associated with billionaire Charles Koch is preparing to throw its money and weight behind a single Republican candidate in the 2024 presidential primary – in a move that could significantly reshape the GOP field.:
:
The memo does not mention Donald Trump, but an official with AFP Action confirmed to CNN that the network is not planning to support the former president’s White House bid.

GrantDawg 02-06-2023 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3392390)
Pretty good news. Not sure it’s that significant because Trump likely has other sources but good that more money will go to another GOP other than Trump.

The Koch brothers have never supported him. They instead concentrated on GOP legislative campaign in 2016 and 2020, after the 2016 primary were the guys they would have liked lost.

NobodyHere 02-06-2023 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho (Post 3392351)
I'm honestly surprised that MTG didn't suggest Biden use his Jewish Space Lasers to shoot it down. Missed opportunity.


I don't think the Jews would give their space lasers to a Catholic like Biden.

albionmoonlight 02-06-2023 08:20 AM


Ksyrup 02-06-2023 08:21 AM

For the Koch thing to succeed, they have to convince a bunch of hopefuls to stand down and coalesce behind one candidate against Trump. If they can't do that, no amount of mony in the world is going to sway Trump voters in a 10-12 candidate field. The only way to win is to consolidate the anti-Trump vote behind one person, early on. I don't bet on it happening.

Lathum 02-06-2023 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3392416)
For the Koch thing to succeed, they have to convince a bunch of hopefuls to stand down and coalesce behind one candidate against Trump. If they can't do that, no amount of mony in the world is going to sway Trump voters in a 10-12 candidate field. The only way to win is to consolidate the anti-Trump vote behind one person, early on. I don't bet on it happening.


this has been my stance all along and I agree. Everyone is going to think they can beak a weakened Trump and his base will lead him to a primary victory with a minority of the vote.

The interesting thing will be if Trump does win the nomination do people fall in line again or bail on him.

JPhillips 02-06-2023 08:51 AM

We know the answer to the second part. Even people like Hogan are saying they will support the nominee.

albionmoonlight 02-06-2023 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3392419)
We know the answer to the second part. Even people like Hogan are saying they will support the nominee.


It is amazing that even in 2023 people still have this idea that there's a notable #NeverTrump group within the GOP.

If you are anti-Trump you left the GOP years ago. Anyone who still calls themselves a Republican is pro-Trump (or a very vocal anti-Trump like Liz Cheney, but you can count those people on one hand).

Ksyrup 02-06-2023 10:13 AM

Yeah, Hogan has fallen back in line. His latest thing is "I'll vote GOP but I don't think it will be Trump" - that's as anti-Trump as he'll be now. Even Sununu is walking back his comments last year about Trump being crazy as a "joke."

Anyone who wants a career in the current party they are in will continue to outwardly support their party. They may test the winds from time to time hoping they start to blow different ways, but once they encounter a stiff breeze back at them, they stand down. And yes, this is a current GOP issue only because of the Trump threat, but it's no less true on the other side. It's just that the consequences aren't nearly as immediate or drastic. Both sides are almost entirely party over country.

Lathum 02-06-2023 10:38 AM

I meant more the money, Murdoch, et.... Obviously to go against Trump is political suicide for those in office.

albionmoonlight 02-06-2023 01:08 PM

State of the Union is tomorrow.

I'd love to have a President go back to the old days and just deliver it in writing.

One of the more pointless events on the political calendar, IMO.

Ksyrup 02-06-2023 01:19 PM

It's good for approximately 1/2 of Congress to get in some calisthenics at least once every year.

cuervo72 02-06-2023 01:39 PM

I generally try to avoid them.

GrantDawg 02-06-2023 01:53 PM

Haven't watched in years. Even Pre-Trump, why watch when you can get the highlights immediately on your phone? I will do something more entertaining. At least Obama was a good orator. Clinton was as well. Bush, Trump and Biden are really painful to watch try to give high-oratory speeches.

NobodyHere 02-07-2023 01:12 PM

Rainmaker will be sure to like this proposal:

In State of the Union, Biden will propose quadrupling the tax on corporate stock buybacks - MarketWatch

Not that it will ever get past the House.

albionmoonlight 02-07-2023 03:26 PM

Probably too late to put it in the State of the Union, but maybe Biden could throw in a line or two about the Democrats being against putting kids back into the mines:


sterlingice 02-07-2023 03:32 PM

Anything to avoid raising wages

Also, the drastically increasing liability shield for companies over the last couple of decades reminds us just how screwed we are as individuals.

SI

RainMaker 02-07-2023 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3392415)



Funny how a $1200 check a couple years ago upended the economy in their mind but the billions in handouts through PPP and other pandemic programs that subsidized businesses is ignored.

Edward64 02-07-2023 04:56 PM

CNN article says China is in crisis mode in responding to the balloon(s).

Just find a scape goat (done, the weather guy), say sorry won’t happen again (but don’t passively threaten the ‘victim’), and invite Blinken to visit in March.

Then, if it wasn’t Xi, he should take care of this privately.

NobodyHere 02-07-2023 10:34 PM

I didn't watch the SotU but according to liberal forums Joe Biden just solved the Social InSecurity problem.

Atocep 02-07-2023 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3392589)
I didn't watch the SotU but according to liberal forums Joe Biden just solved the Social InSecurity problem.


Completely played republicans on that one.

Not bad for a guy suffering from dementia that care barely speak. Or maybe that was one of the actors playing him.

Galaril 02-08-2023 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3392599)
Completely played republicans on that one.

Not bad for a guy suffering from dementia that care barely speak. Or maybe that was one of the actors playing him.


Yes he sure did. Man he really abused them in that speech. They stepped repeatedly into the bear trap.

Ksyrup 02-08-2023 07:43 AM

When is Trump's SOTU for the "real" government?

Thomkal 02-08-2023 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3392608)
When is Trump's SOTU for the "real" government?



His former Press Secretary already took care of that.

GrantDawg 02-08-2023 08:22 AM

"Who, me?"

bronconick 02-08-2023 01:35 PM

Then we have Rick Scott wanting to sunset not Social Security and Medicare, but all federal legislation. Because Congress is known for passing necessary bills in a timely and expedient manner.

albionmoonlight 02-08-2023 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick (Post 3392646)
Then we have Rick Scott wanting to sunset not Social Security and Medicare, but all federal legislation. Because Congress is known for passing necessary bills in a timely and expedient manner.


I don't want to live in a world where whether we have an army or not depends on Lauren Bobert's mood that day.

RainMaker 02-08-2023 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3392649)
I don't want to live in a world where whether we have an army or not depends on Lauren Bobert's mood that day.


They'll make exceptions for things like the military, energy subsidies, tax cuts for the wealthy, etc.

RainMaker 02-08-2023 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3392535)
Rainmaker will be sure to like this proposal:

In State of the Union, Biden will propose quadrupling the tax on corporate stock buybacks - MarketWatch

Not that it will ever get past the House.


I don't think that will ever happen for obvious reasons. Dems could have tried to pass it when they had control over everything. I think they're only proposing it now because it'd be DOA in the House.

Dems love the idea of taxing the rich when they don't have power just as Republicans start caring about the deficit when they don't have power.

Edward64 02-09-2023 06:24 AM

Probably didn’t happen but he did go into great detail in his substack article. WH denies it of course but I would like to see more analysis/rebuttal of the article

Seymour Hersh claims US Navy behind Nord Stream 2 pipeline explosion
Quote:

WASHINGTON — Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh has alleged US Navy divers laid bombs that destroyed the Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline under the Baltic Sea last September, drawing a denial from the Pentagon Wednesday.

Hersh, who scooped journalism’s top award more than five decades ago for exposing the My Lai massacre of Vietnamese civilians by US troops in 1968, cited an unnamed source in reporting on Substack that Americans planted remotely triggered explosives that wrecked three of the four pipelines built to carry natural gas from Russia to Europe.

GrantDawg 02-09-2023 10:35 AM

Intresting. They knew the balloon had signal intelligence equipment, but they also knew that the military was able to prevent it from being effective.
Chinese spy balloon contained technology to monitor communication signals, US says | CNN Politics

Edward64 02-10-2023 07:27 AM

Hard to believe Xi did not know about it. I wonder if the intel is based on good info/humint or just speculation.

The US says Xi didn't know about the balloon. That raises even more questions | CNN
Quote:

Washington believes the balloon shot down over the Atlantic on Saturday is part of an extensive Chinese surveillance program – but that Xi Jinping, China’s most powerful leader in decades, may not have been aware of the mission.

The assessment was communicated to American lawmakers in briefings Thursday, according to CNN reporting – and if true, could point to what analysts say would be a significant lack of coordination within the Chinese system at a fraught period of China-US relations.

Quote:

Biden officials expressed the belief that both the senior leadership of the People’s Liberation Army and Chinese Communist Party, including Xi, were also unaware of the balloon mission over the US, and that China is still trying to figure out how this happened, a source familiar with the Thursday briefing to Congress told CNN.
Below is more likely IMO. Maybe watch for any leadership changes shortly as a hint if this was done with or without Xi's knowledge.

Quote:

But some observers of elite Chinese politics remain skeptical that Xi would have been unaware of a balloon dispatched to US airspace or that lower-level officials would conduct such a mission that could impact US-China relations without his knowledge.
:

Instead, Xi may have been comfortable with an incident that diverted the attention of a public frustrated amid a faltering economy after years under the recently dismantled zero-Covid policy – but underestimated the US domestic response that resulted in the postponed talks, Wu said.

JPhillips 02-10-2023 08:52 AM

At this very moment, the greatest minds in the Labour party are scheming to fuck this up.



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