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BYU 14 11-08-2018 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3222706)
The older I get the more I want "medicare for all". I'm not sure what's the best plan/option but Option #1 is Bernie's plan with est. $32T and that is too much (assuming that is correct). No estimates for the costs for Options #2 & #3 in the article but assumption is it will be lower.

Either way, it can't just be give access/provide coverage for "all". It really needs to address the cost side also and people's expectations.

Best we can hope for is the Dems lay the groundwork now and then it really begins in 2020 with some sort of grand compromise that moves the dial towards "all" with somewhat reasonable costs and tax hike.

Democrats Have Won The House. What Will They Do About Medicare For All?


Ways to take a huge bite out of that cost

1-Increasing tax on cigarettes and alcohol as Canada does and funneling that directly to healthcare (I know people will say 'what about fast food it causes health issues too?' see next bullet)

2-There would have to be some cost to consumers and one way to incorporate healthy eating would be to reduce what people have to pay in by basing premium level for the next calendar year on health screening metrics (which my employer does now) That way people like me who have 116/70 BP, fall within BMI and have a stellar lipid profile are rewarded. If you don't or you don't have a screening every year you pay more.

3-Reschedule and legalize marijuana nationwide. We know enough about it's medicinal values now, I know several physicians that support prescribing it over opioids for pain and there is a shit load of tax money there that can be funneled to healthcare.

There are ways to make it work

Edit - I still think, like Medicare Advantage plans now, administering the plan can be done through existing insurers.

Ksyrup 11-08-2018 08:25 AM

So, who pushed Ginsburg last night?

bronconick 11-08-2018 08:27 AM

Probably a drunk Kavanaugh

PilotMan 11-08-2018 08:50 AM

I've been saying this for the last year. The advancement in tech will allow the only true record to come from people who were actually there. This sort of thing is a major, major threat to our freedom. It may seem like a little thing, but within it lies the seeds of true oppression.





Thomkal 11-08-2018 08:58 AM

I'm actually surprised that there's not a report out from the White House saying the intern was hospitalized for her injuries last night.

PilotMan 11-08-2018 08:59 AM

I should add that the video on the right, that was put out by Sanders from the White House, was reportedly doctored by Infowars. Go figure.

JPhillips 11-08-2018 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter (Post 3222719)
He wants the questions to stop and to face no scrutiny. Stop attending the press conferences and that's what he gets.


Scrutiny doesn't have to stop. In fact, media organizations could do more if they were less concerned about maintaining access to people that repeatedly lie to them.

Every WH fights with the press until they realize they depend on them to promote their message. Imagine a world where no legitimate news org paid gave the immigrant caravan any airtime. The WH needs the press as much or more than they need the WH.

Ksyrup 11-08-2018 09:21 AM

Yeah, I don't watch many WH press conferences, but that one was on during the local noon news so I watched. That was nothing more than Trump using the media to get out his "it was all about me" message, followed by Trump yelling at reporters for fake news and being unfair.

It would be less damaging to just let him get up there in front of no one and make his statement, then let the media parse his comments after the fact. It seems like the Jim Acosta's of the media world are just playing right into his anti-media playbook.

Edward64 11-08-2018 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3222717)
Hey,

what happened to that immigrant caravan that was going to kill us all? Funny how coverage just stopped the day after the election.


They paused to regroup and rest.

Good thing Trumps executive order on asylum at ports of entry seems to be working.

Trump to sign directive this week revamping U.S. asylum policy - MarketWatch
Quote:

President Donald Trump is expected to sign a directive this week that will make official his plans to revamp the U.S. asylum system, part of his broader push to crack down on undocumented migrants entering the U.S. illegally.

Trump is expected to sign the directive as early as Friday morning, before leaving on a trip to Paris, administration officials said. Last week, Trump said he intends to sign a “comprehensive” executive order on the detention of apprehended migrants, including those seeking asylum status.

According to the directive, U.S. officials will require asylum seekers to go to a port of entry to make a claim. The argument being made by the administration is that this will enable safer, more orderly processing and better resource planning, an official said. Currently, U.S. law states that “any alien who is physically present” in the country can apply for asylum within a year of arriving.

The officials, who have seen a draft of the directive, said the intention is to implement the directive temporarily, although a time frame wasn’t specified. Trump said last week he wants to keep undocumented immigrants apprehended at the border in detention until their legal cases are heard rather than allow them to be released into the U.S. to await a hearing.

Ksyrup 11-08-2018 09:23 AM

Fox News hasn't forgotten...

https://www.foxnews.com/world/migran...at-happens-now

JPhillips 11-08-2018 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222736)


He's in Mexico City and the story says they're within reach of the border. That would be still @650 miles away. At Civil War army pace that's still 45 days away.

But at least they're sticking with it after a pause of a few days. Keep f-ing that chicken Fox.

Ksyrup 11-08-2018 09:48 AM

But they have some migrants travelling with them who are Antetokounmpo long...

Edward64 11-08-2018 09:56 AM

Assuming security is accounted for and there is no path to PR/Citizenship, it makes so much sense to expand the guest worker program.

The Senate passed something but the House refused to vote on re: Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013. It may not have been perfect but let's keep on working on it and compromise instead of just letting it die.

Unfortunately, I don't see a champion for holistic immigration reform, just disjointed and targeted bits-and-pieces right now. And I don't see pro-immigration as the winning platform in 2020 (behind Economy & Healthcare).

Schumer and Dems seemed willing to compromise on DACA for the Wall. Maybe try again (and possibly toss in guest workers) as initially baby-steps.

PilotMan 11-08-2018 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3222747)

Schumer and Dems seemed willing to compromise on DACA for the Wall. Maybe try again (and possibly toss in guest workers) as initially baby-steps.



Which is a mistake imo. A wall isn't worth the expense and long term expense. I'd be willing to increase the budget on the border substantially as long as it wasn't spent on the wall. I'd let the R's own DACA and the result of what comes from their efforts, and negotiate more efficient, border control. Extensive use of tech and automation is the path there, not some 4th century answer.

Edward64 11-08-2018 10:32 AM

The next step after harassing people at restaurants I guess. I'm all for them getting permits and protesting peacefully but IMO this isn't right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.6369ac499cd5
Quote:

Fox News host Tucker Carlson was at his desk Wednesday evening, less than two hours before his 8 p.m. live show, when he suddenly started receiving multiple text messages.

There was some sort of commotion happening outside his home in Northwest D.C.

“I called my wife,” Carlson told The Washington Post in a phone interview. “She had been in the kitchen alone getting ready to go to dinner and she heard pounding on the front door and screaming. ... Someone started throwing himself against the front door and actually cracked the front door.”

His wife, thinking it was a home invasion, locked herself in the pantry and called 911, Carlson said. The couple have four children, but none were home at the time.

But it wasn’t a home invasion. It was a protest.

According to now-deleted social media posts shared by Smash Racism D.C., a local anti-fascist organization whose members have been tied to other demonstrations against prominent Republican figures, activists showed up outside Carlson’s home Wednesday and they had a message for him.

“Tucker Carlson, we are outside your home,” one person could be heard saying in the since-deleted video. The person, using a bullhorn, accused Carlson of “promoting hate” and “an ideology that has led to thousands of people dying.”

“We want you to know, we know where you sleep at night,” the person concluded, before leading the group to chant, “Tucker Carlson, we will fight! We know where you sleep at night!”

Roughly 20 people had gathered outside Carlson’s residence, said Lt. Jon Pongratz of the D.C. police. Authorities received a call at about 6:30 p.m. Wednesday and responded “within a few minutes,” Pongratz told The Post.
:
Carlson said the protesters had blocked off both ends of his street and carried signs that listed his home address. The group called Carlson a “racist scumbag" and demanded that he “leave town,” according to posts on Twitter. A woman was also overheard in one of the deleted videos saying she wanted to “bring a pipe bomb” to his house, he said.

“It wasn’t a protest. It was a threat,” said Carlson, who is often denounced by critics, particularly liberal ones, for his rhetoric about immigrants and minorities on his Fox News show. “They weren’t protesting anything specific that I had said. They weren’t asking me to change anything. They weren’t protesting a policy or advocating for legislation. ... They were threatening me and my family and telling me to leave my own neighborhood in the city that I grew up in.”

Thomkal 11-08-2018 10:41 AM

Yep protest on social media, participate in nationwide protests, but these kind of protests are more harassment than protest and should stop. No one's family should feel threatened because someone in the family works for a news network

Thomkal 11-08-2018 11:16 AM

Brian Kemp finally resigns as GA Sec of State -he says so he can transition to governor even though Abrams has not conceded yet.



Brian Kemp resigns as Georgia secretary of state as governor's race remains too close to call

larrymcg421 11-08-2018 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3222694)
Guy spent the day moving further toward obstructing a federal investigation by setting up a kangaroo justice system and people are more concerned about whether Jim Acosta has a press pass.


I don't think that's true at all. There's tons of coverage about the Sessions firing and his replacement's shady past. There are protests scheduled about this.

It's possible to talk about more than one thing at a time. And the Acosta thing should be talked about. The White House used doctored footage from Infowars to smear a reporter with an assault accusation. In no way should that be ignored.

JPhillips 11-08-2018 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3222747)
Assuming security is accounted for and there is no path to PR/Citizenship, it makes so much sense to expand the guest worker program.

The Senate passed something but the House refused to vote on re: Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013. It may not have been perfect but let's keep on working on it and compromise instead of just letting it die.

Unfortunately, I don't see a champion for holistic immigration reform, just disjointed and targeted bits-and-pieces right now. And I don't see pro-immigration as the winning platform in 2020 (behind Economy & Healthcare).

Schumer and Dems seemed willing to compromise on DACA for the Wall. Maybe try again (and possibly toss in guest workers) as initially baby-steps.


Again, there's no grand compromise because the far-right has killed several attempts at compromise previously. They don't want a solution, they want restricted immigration(illegal and legal). As long as the GOP is controlled by those folks, there can't be a comprehensive immigration bill.

JPhillips 11-08-2018 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3222756)
Yep protest on social media, participate in nationwide protests, but these kind of protests are more harassment than protest and should stop. No one's family should feel threatened because someone in the family works for a news network


Morally reprehensible and politically ineffective.

whomario 11-08-2018 12:50 PM

May i add (re: Chop-Gate) that i also find it extremely disturbing that apparently a lowly press-corps intern feels pressured in a way that she goes to physically grab that mic ? Just look at her, she's dying out there having to go into that confrontation ...

Either you have a situation that gets out of hand and let some sort of security (that is a thing at any of these press conferences, i guess ?) take care of it firmly and calmly or you don't. But to have the president angrily go "that's enough" and an intern frantically moving to grab the mic ? What the hell ?

larrymcg421 11-08-2018 01:02 PM

Movement on Predictit for Bill Nelson. He's up to 22 cents now. Was just 6 cents yesterday.

spleen1015 11-08-2018 01:11 PM

The whole thing with Acosta is just comical.

Both sides are moronic. Give up the mic, but at the same time Trump needs to stop bullying people and saying whatever he wants. Then people won't feel the need to stick up for themselves.

Trump is just a clown. I have all of the power and can do whatever I want and I'll display that power whenever I don't like you.

larrymcg421 11-08-2018 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015 (Post 3222772)
The whole thing with Acosta is just comical.

Both sides are moronic. Give up the mic, but at the same time Trump needs to stop bullying people and saying whatever he wants. Then people won't feel the need to stick up for themselves.

Trump is just a clown. I have all of the power and can do whatever I want and I'll display that power whenever I don't like you.


Both sides? Even if you believe Acosta went too far in trying to ask additional questions, how does that even approach the Press Secretary using doctored footage from an alt-right group to substantiate a bogus "laid his hands on her" claim so they can strip his press pass?

Subby 11-08-2018 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3222773)
Both sides? Even if you believe Acosta went too far in trying to ask additional questions, how does that even approach the Press Secretary using doctored footage from an alt-right group to substantiate a bogus "laid his hands on her" claim so they can strip his press pass?

You also had some very fine people on both sides.

spleen1015 11-08-2018 01:25 PM

I'm not even talking about that. I was just talking about the exchange.

Striping the guy's press pass and trying to say he assaulted her is even more moronic. It's Trump being Trump. He's has the power to do it so he will.

This is a press conference with the President of the US. So, there is some professional decorum that should be followed. He doesn't follow it so, why should anyone else?

Butter 11-08-2018 01:33 PM

Outstanding races from Tuesday....

Arizona Senate, where the difference is about 17000 votes of the 1.73 million cast, or :

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ele...e-race-n933866

Florida Senate, where the difference is 22,000 of 8.2 million cast:

Nelson, Scott spar as Florida Senate race nears hand recount | TheHill

Georgia Governor's, where the difference is 63,000 of 4 million votes cast:

Kemp Resigns as Georgia Secretary of State, With Governor’s Race Still Disputed :: WRAL.com

And the 12 house races:

The Races That Are Still Too Close To Call | FiveThirtyEight

cartman 11-08-2018 03:04 PM

The Florida governor's race has now entered the automatic recount range as well.

JPhillips 11-08-2018 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015 (Post 3222775)

This is a press conference with the President of the US. So, there is some professional decorum that should be followed. He doesn't follow it so, why should anyone else?


I think we have a much bigger problem with too much deference to our leaders rather than too little. And that's been true for years.

RainMaker 11-08-2018 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3222755)
The next step after harassing people at restaurants I guess. I'm all for them getting permits and protesting peacefully but IMO this isn't right.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.6369ac499cd5


That's too far but I don't have an issue with saying something to someone at a restaurant or in public.

RainMaker 11-08-2018 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3222727)
I've been saying this for the last year. The advancement in tech will allow the only true record to come from people who were actually there. This sort of thing is a major, major threat to our freedom. It may seem like a little thing, but within it lies the seeds of true oppression.


The video was actually snagged from Infowars if there was any question where the WH gets it's news from. We can't be far off from the administration hinting that these mass shootings are just false flags perpetrated by the Jews.

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3222761)
I don't think that's true at all. There's tons of coverage about the Sessions firing and his replacement's shady past. There are protests scheduled about this.

It's possible to talk about more than one thing at a time. And the Acosta thing should be talked about. The White House used doctored footage from Infowars to smear a reporter with an assault accusation. In no way should that be ignored.


It was treated as one of the big stories of the day. Some reporter for a cable news outlet losing their press pass just seems so minor to me.

The story is just red meat for bootlicking sycophants and an opportunity for the media to play their favorite role as the martyr.

Thomkal 11-08-2018 04:24 PM

How about some 2020 news? ::ducks the rotten tomatoes:::


I've been wondering if Rep Eric Swalwell was going to run for President based on his frequent appearances on CNN and MSNBC. Looks like I was right:


Source: Eric Swalwell to run for president in 2020 - POLITICO


I've liked his TV appearance for the most part, and I'm intrigued by someone much younger(37) than Biden/Sanders/Hillary that might be running.

NobodyHere 11-08-2018 04:47 PM

Let's throw some both sideisms out there. Jim Acosta gets his press license pulled by a deranged president. And the violent left harasses and tries to intimidate Tucker Carlson at his home.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/08/media...ors/index.html

cuervo72 11-08-2018 04:55 PM

Poor Tucker.

Kavanaugh Accuser Christine Blasey Ford Continues Receiving Threats, Lawyers Say : NPR

NobodyHere 11-08-2018 05:05 PM

It's a shame that people on both sides can't be civil

larrymcg421 11-08-2018 05:14 PM

It seems like the issue in Nelson's race is a poor ballot design in Broward that put the Senate race in the bottom left corner. That caused about 25,000 undervotes. There were some districts where the Agriculture Commissioner race had more votes than the Senate race. Nelson's claiming that there is a tabulation error, but it seems more likely to be people leaving that race blank because they didn't see it on the ballot.

Nelson's price has dropped back down to .13 on PredictIt after that news broke.

Ksyrup 11-08-2018 05:20 PM

I guess I'd need to see the ballot to understand that argument, but I don't buy it. I can understand "ballot fatigue" or ignoring stuff at the bottom (assuming it's a lesser race or something), but didn't see it?

larrymcg421 11-08-2018 05:39 PM

This is the one I saw...


JonInMiddleGA 11-08-2018 06:17 PM

That photo makes sense of it I think.. It's left to right, and started with federal offices, then statewide offices, then partial state offices.
The rather lengthy set of instructions then shoved the federal races to the bottom of the page.

I pulled up a 2018 and a 2016 sample ballot from Georgia, just to see.

2018 Georgia starts with Governor & other statewide, then goes to federal district'ed (i.e. U.S. House) and continues on.

2016 Georgia started with President, then U.S. Senate, then statewide state office, then district'ed state offices, and continued.

Same exact format as the Florida sample ... except the instructions appeared only once in a single language and were therefore shorter & fit across the top of the full screen.

Jas_lov 11-08-2018 06:22 PM

Just saw on tv that Sinema now has a 2,000 vote lead in Arizona.

sabotai 11-08-2018 06:26 PM

TIL Broward County, Florida puts Haitian Creole on their election ballots.

Edit: After googling a bit, nearly 6% of Broward County is Haitian.

BYU 14 11-08-2018 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas_lov (Post 3222807)
Just saw on tv that Sinema now has a 2,000 vote lead in Arizona.


Now up to 9,000, big turnaround over the last 24 hours.

Thomkal 11-08-2018 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas_lov (Post 3222807)
Just saw on tv that Sinema now has a 2,000 vote lead in Arizona.



Hey there's hope for me yet in the election contest!...or not

Thomkal 11-08-2018 08:56 PM

I've been looking at pictures of the various Trump is not above the law rallies across the country today-great seeing people rally peacefully.

Lathum 11-08-2018 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3222817)
I've been looking at pictures of the various Trump is not above the law rallies across the country today-great seeing people rally peacefully.


We walked through the one in Times Square today. Tons of people with signs.

Having spent the last several years in Portland we were a bit nervous, especially since we had the kids, but people could not have been more peaceful.

Thomkal 11-08-2018 09:06 PM

Awesome Lathum!

molson 11-08-2018 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3222817)
I've been looking at pictures of the various Trump is not above the law rallies across the country today-great seeing people rally peacefully.


Yes, but I think Trump did well to make the "trigger" for these protests as convoluted as possible. It's been planned for months for people to take to the streets as soon as the Mueller investigation was shut down. And I think that would have been a legitimately game-changing protest (and I'm someone who is skeptical of the benefit of protests).

But Trump managed to regain some control over the investigation by a means that technically triggered the protest, but did it by firing an unpopular AG. Which led to a bunch of confusion as to whether this was "the moment" for things to really get serious. And to do it the day after the culmination of a very emotional election cycle that resulted in semi-success for Trump's opponents, and....I think, sadly, he has played this perfectly

Thomkal 11-08-2018 09:57 PM

So Trump not giving up on election fraud:


Law Enforcement is looking into another big corruption scandal having to do with Election Fraud in #Broward and Palm Beach. Florida voted for Rick Scott!

PilotMan 11-08-2018 10:12 PM

Wait. Is it corruption scandal or election fraud? So confusing!

Ksyrup 11-08-2018 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3222805)
This is the one I saw...



If you read the instructions and then keep going down the ballot, it's actually the first race to vote on. What's the argument again?! Whatever it is, it's a huge stretch.

larrymcg421 11-08-2018 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222829)
If you read the instructions and then keep going down the ballot, it's actually the first race to vote on. What's the argument again?! Whatever it is, it's a huge stretch.


Huh? I'm not making an argument that it's unfair or anything. I'm saying this is more likely the issue than ballots being miscounted, which would work against the Democratic argument. If what I'm saying is true, then Nelson has no chance.

SackAttack 11-09-2018 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3222820)
Yes, but I think Trump did well to make the "trigger" for these protests as convoluted as possible. It's been planned for months for people to take to the streets as soon as the Mueller investigation was shut down. And I think that would have been a legitimately game-changing protest (and I'm someone who is skeptical of the benefit of protests).

But Trump managed to regain some control over the investigation by a means that technically triggered the protest, but did it by firing an unpopular AG. Which led to a bunch of confusion as to whether this was "the moment" for things to really get serious. And to do it the day after the culmination of a very emotional election cycle that resulted in semi-success for Trump's opponents, and....I think, sadly, he has played this perfectly


Fair assessment, but at the same time, he's tapped a guy who's been vocal about believing the investigation should be reined in or even shut down; who wasn't confirmed by the Senate to serve in a post that requires Senate confirmation; and without being able to fall back on "recess appointment" because the Senate isn't in recess.

So whether or not you think he's "played this perfectly," he's still set himself up for a court fight that there is a non-zero chance he loses. Not over whether or not firing Sessions (and let's be clear, requesting his resignation is tantamount to the same thing) constitutes obstruction of justice, but whether he's in violation of the Appointments Clause with the selection of Whitaker.

He can defuse all of that by nominating Whitaker to the role on a permanent basis and getting Senate confirmation, and maybe he even will. There'd still be discontent, but I don't know what else really results from that.

Trying to forge ahead as if nothing's wrong risks getting smacked down in court, and having the courts ALSO throw out any action Whitaker takes in the interim as being an invalid order deriving from an unconstitutional action.

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3222830)
Huh? I'm not making an argument that it's unfair or anything. I'm saying this is more likely the issue than ballots being miscounted, which would work against the Democratic argument. If what I'm saying is true, then Nelson has no chance.


This was in your original post and is what I was referring to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3222803)
Nelson's claiming that there is a tabulation error, but it seems more likely to be people leaving that race blank because they didn't see it on the ballot.


I don't understand that argument at all. It's the first race on the ballot if you simply follow the ballot by column. How does someone not see it? Also, it's one of the two most high profile races in the state. Even if someone missed it, how does one not say to themselves, "Gee, what about that Scott/Nelson race I saw approximately 5800 commercials for?"

GrantDawg 11-09-2018 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222842)
This was in your original post and is what I was referring to:



I don't understand that argument at all. It's the first race on the ballot if you simply follow the ballot by column. How does someone not see it? Also, it's one of the two most high profile races in the state. Even if someone missed it, how does one not say to themselves, "Gee, what about that Scott/Nelson race I saw approximately 5800 commercials for?"





Because most people don't read the instructions, and the ones who do will stop once they change language. The first choice most people are going to see is the govenor's race in the middle. Think about people in a crowded room, that have been in line for a long time, and feel rushed. How many are just going to start filling circles as quickly as possible to get done and get out?

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 07:49 AM

I guess I read things differently than most people, then. Maybe it's because I'm left-handed and view things differently. I would (and did, when looking at that ballot) work from top left down the column to the end, then middle column top to bottom, then right column, then flip it over to see if anything was on the back.

GrantDawg 11-09-2018 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222850)
I guess I read things differently than most people, then. Maybe it's because I'm left-handed and view things differently. I would (and did, when looking at that ballot) work from top left down the column to the end, then middle column top to bottom, then right column, then flip it over to see if anything was on the back.





I am left handed, and I saw the middle column first. I probably would have eventually noticed there were votes on that bottom left, but I could easily see missing them.

GrantDawg 11-09-2018 07:57 AM

I will add: in 2000, I ran a poll in Alabama using optical ballots just like this. I remember having to point out a race laid out roughly like this to people all day because voters were regularly missing it.

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 07:58 AM

Weird. It's set up in columns, meaning there's a left column, not just a center and right. *shurg*

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 07:59 AM

In any event, I hope Nelson loses, not because of party affiliation but because I used to work for him (indirectly), and he's the biggest empty suit I've ever personally come across.

larrymcg421 11-09-2018 08:13 AM

Most people didn't miss it. It's not like there's a 50% drop off, just more of one in that county than anywhere else. Some people just vote the top of ballot and don't even scan to the bottom. I think that's dumb, but it happens.

This isn't an issue for me here in GA since my counties use electronic balloting and just prompt the races in order.

QuikSand 11-09-2018 08:29 AM

Saying "I personally didn't have trouble following it (especially after being prompted there was some discord about the layout)" and translating that to "therefore absolutely nobody would (especially without any such prompting)" is quite a leap.

I'm not claiming it's a horrible thing, or a fire-able offense... but could that layout contribute to an undervote of a few percent? Absolutely. You wouldn't have to be an absolute numbskull to look at the first column, dismiss it as "the instructions" and just start with the second.

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 08:34 AM

I didn't make that leap, you did. Our ballot layout was exactly the same kind of 3 column layout here, which I don't think anyone had trouble following.

I'm not even saying it couldn't happen, I'm simply saying it shouldn't happen. How is that race not top of mind for anyone who bothered to vote? It's not like it was your local constable race (which we have - and no one ran for).

molson 11-09-2018 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222860)
It's not like it was your local constable race (which we have - and no one ran for).


Your town could have had Constable Ksyrup running the show? That's an opportunity lost.

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 08:40 AM

I wrote-in the name of a retired Lexington cop who lives in my neighborhood. Although, I'm honestly kinda curious what happens when no one runs. Maybe a local board appoints someone, I don't know.

If I'm the only person to write in a candidate, and he gets the only vote, does he win? Is there some sort of minimum threshold?

digamma 11-09-2018 08:49 AM

Not sure what's worse, lying about the not knowing the guy you just appointed as acting attorney general or actually not knowing the guy you just appointed as acting attorney general.

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 08:51 AM

It might be true, in the sense that he's not Rosenstein.

JPhillips 11-09-2018 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3222858)
Saying "I personally didn't have trouble following it (especially after being prompted there was some discord about the layout)" and translating that to "therefore absolutely nobody would (especially without any such prompting)" is quite a leap.

I'm not claiming it's a horrible thing, or a fire-able offense... but could that layout contribute to an undervote of a few percent? Absolutely. You wouldn't have to be an absolute numbskull to look at the first column, dismiss it as "the instructions" and just start with the second.


Why are the instructions even on the ballot? The ballot should be clean of other text and the instructions should be separate and posted in each voting booth.

Warhammer 11-09-2018 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222850)
I guess I read things differently than most people, then. Maybe it's because I'm left-handed and view things differently. I would (and did, when looking at that ballot) work from top left down the column to the end, then middle column top to bottom, then right column, then flip it over to see if anything was on the back.


I double check my ballot to make sure I did not miss anything.

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 09:55 AM

Me too. And the whole paper ballot thing, I am always paranoid about not coloring in the boxes enough, or accidentally going outside the lines, so I usually go over them multiple times very carefully. I think I had 3 old people sit down next to me and finish before I did. I am assuming they just straight R'd it and left.

JPhillips 11-09-2018 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma (Post 3222868)
Not sure what's worse, lying about the not knowing the guy you just appointed as acting attorney general or actually not knowing the guy you just appointed as acting attorney general.


It's the name the Ouija board spelled. Trump just listened to what the spirits told him.

BYU 14 11-09-2018 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222880)
Me too. And the whole paper ballot thing, I am always paranoid about not coloring in the boxes enough, or accidentally going outside the lines, so I usually go over them multiple times very carefully. I think I had 3 old people sit down next to me and finish before I did. I am assuming they just straight R'd it and left.


I am almost OCD over those damn lines LOL

Edward64 11-09-2018 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3222741)
But at least they're sticking with it after a pause of a few days. Keep f-ing that chicken Fox.


Started back up.

Migrant caravan to leave Mexico City for US border | TheHill
Quote:

A group of thousands of Central American migrants on Friday will leave Mexico City and continue their journey toward the U.S. as the Trump administration takes steps to limit their ability to request asylum.

The migrants, who number between 4,000 and 5,000, voted Thursday night to resume walking to the U.S. border Friday, according to USA Today.

The vote follows a Thursday declaration from the White House that it would seek to clamp down on asylum claims at the U.S.-Mexico border.

Under current law, migrants can request asylum either by presenting themselves at legal ports of entry or by sidestepping those ports and crossing the border illegally. The new rules would disallow those migrants who cross illegally from seeking asylum and instead place them in expedited deportation proceedings.

CU Tiger 11-09-2018 11:45 AM

This ballot thing fascinates me.
Ive only ever voted in SC. And as I think we all know, the concepts of South Carolina and technologically advanced civilization are pretty much mutually exclusive.


But since 2000, in SC they have had these electronic ballots that look like a huge glorified tablet.
The idea that places are still using a paper ballot and scantron bubble sheets is mind boggling to me.

Ksyrup 11-09-2018 11:53 AM

In our podunk town, in my specific precinct, we had one electronic machine and 6 desks for manual scantron ballots. You could either wait in the line for 1 machine or the line with 5 more opportunities to (theoretically) get done quicker. I wasn't in there long enough to figure out how much quicker one line was going than the other, I just did the paper ballot.

stevew 11-09-2018 12:10 PM

We had 4 of those iPad looking machines.

BYU 14 11-09-2018 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222889)
In our podunk town, in my specific precinct, we had one electronic machine and 6 desks for manual scantron ballots. You could either wait in the line for 1 machine or the line with 5 more opportunities to (theoretically) get done quicker. I wasn't in there long enough to figure out how much quicker one line was going than the other, I just did the paper ballot.


We have no such excuse in Phoenix

CU Tiger 11-09-2018 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222889)
In our podunk town, in my specific precinct, we had one electronic machine and 6 desks for manual scantron ballots. You could either wait in the line for 1 machine or the line with 5 more opportunities to (theoretically) get done quicker. I wasn't in there long enough to figure out how much quicker one line was going than the other, I just did the paper ballot.





I live in a town with a population of 589 (obviously not all voting age since my one neighbor has 8 kids under 18 - lol)


We had...I'm viewing the room in my head and seeing 7 ballot machines....but I remember voting "in" machine #8

ISiddiqui 11-09-2018 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger (Post 3222887)
But since 2000, in SC they have had these electronic ballots that look like a huge glorified tablet.
The idea that places are still using a paper ballot and scantron bubble sheets is mind boggling to me.


I think for a lot of those places, they like having a paper copy of the votes.

JonInMiddleGA 11-09-2018 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3222864)
I wrote-in the name of a retired Lexington cop who lives in my neighborhood. Although, I'm honestly kinda curious what happens when no one runs. Maybe a local board appoints someone, I don't know.

If I'm the only person to write in a candidate, and he gets the only vote, does he win? Is there some sort of minimum threshold?


Varies by state & jurisdiction.

I believe in most cases at least at higher levels, write-in votes for candidates that have not gone through the process to be certified as actual qualified candidates are simply discarded/uncounted.

Otherwise Mickey Mouse could end up with 314 offices in 47 states.

Kodos 11-09-2018 12:40 PM

I think paper ballots make a lot of sense from the perspective that they can't be hacked by foreign actors. Plus, it gives you a literal paper trail if things go awry.

Edward64 11-09-2018 12:47 PM

I dont' remember seeing a stat like this before. Trending in the right direction but still more needed.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/09/gun-...-defy-nra.html
Quote:

After heavy spending by both sides of the issue, gun control proponents picked up seats in House midterm races as gun rights advocates lost ground.

Based on House voting records tracked by the National Rifle Association, more than two dozen gun rights proponents won't be returning to the next Congress.

Meanwhile, House Democrats expanded the number of gun control advocates in their caucus. The new new majority includes dozens of candidates who support gun control, including Lucy McBath in Georgia, whose 17-year-old son was fatally shot in 2012 and who made gun violence the centerpiece of her campaign.

At least 17 newly elected House Democrats back stricter gun laws, including Jennifer Wexton, Abigail Spanberger and Elaine Luria in Virginia, who defeated incumbents backed by the National Rifle Association. In Colorado, Democrat Jason Crow beat GOP Rep. Mike Coffman, who received an A rating from the NRA and more than $37,000 in campaign contributions from the group.
:
Sixty-one percent of voters who responded to VoteCast, a survey of the electorate conducted by The Associated Press, said they support stricter gun laws, compared with 8 percent who said they should be loosened. Eighty-six percent of those supporting Democratic candidates backed stricter gun laws, along with 34 percent of those who supported Republicans.
:
House Democrats are already promising to take action on gun control following a recent string of mass shootings, including a late-night assault at a California bar that killed 12 people. Those measures including expanded background checks and a ban on assault-style weapons are likely to reach the House floor when Democrats retake control after eight years of Republican rule.

I'll wait to see the details on the proposals but status quo is not acceptable.

Edward64 11-09-2018 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3222851)
I am left handed, and I saw the middle column first. I probably would have eventually noticed there were votes on that bottom left, but I could easily see missing them.


I'm left handed also and I also saw the middle column first.

It probably did cause some confusion for people new/not used to voting paper ballots or possibly older folks.

My county was electronic so no problem here.

CrimsonFox 11-09-2018 02:54 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/08/bria...ey-abrams.html

Man who orchestrated brilliant voter suppression tactics has resigned.

whee

Many voting machines were just locked up and hand ballots were not authorized.

Gotta love it.

CrimsonFox 11-09-2018 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos (Post 3222897)
I think paper ballots make a lot of sense from the perspective that they can't be hacked by foreign actors. Plus, it gives you a literal paper trail if things go awry.


In Washington, we were mailed our ballot along with a magazine of every candidate who pitches themselves in their blurb. It saved so much time. And you just mailed it in without having to stamp it.

PilotMan 11-09-2018 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox (Post 3222915)
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/08/bria...ey-abrams.html

Man who orchestrated brilliant voter suppression tactics has resigned.

whee

Many voting machines were just locked up and hand ballots were not authorized.

Gotta love it.


Well, he's gonna be the governor now so he's got much bigger suppressions to deal with now.

CrimsonFox 11-09-2018 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3222919)
Well, he's gonna be the governor now so he's got much bigger suppressions to deal with now.


I wonder what happens to a state when their governor-elect is sent to prison. Asking for a friend.

bronconick 11-09-2018 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3222898)
I dont' remember seeing a stat like this before. Trending in the right direction but still more needed.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/09/gun-...-defy-nra.html


I'll wait to see the details on the proposals but status quo is not acceptable.


The NRA was claiming near bankruptcy over the last year, meaning unless they're using Rubles they couldn't buy as many seats.

bronconick 11-09-2018 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox (Post 3222920)
I wonder what happens to a state when their governor-elect is sent to prison. Asking for a friend.


Probably have to ask Illinois for advice.

Thomkal 11-09-2018 07:43 PM

Sinema's lead now up to 20,000 in AZ, but still more to count there and she may lose some of that lead. Rouda has been declared the winner against Rohrbacker. Another CA Democrat, Josh Harder has pulled ahead of his opponent after being behind most of the tally.

bronconick 11-09-2018 08:10 PM

GOP: Stop counting the ballots in Florida, where we're ahead, but count every last ballot in Arizona, where we're behind.

RainMaker 11-09-2018 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3219402)
She does have something to gain. She would be a "hero" to the #metoo movement, the Dems will hold her up (for at least a while), lots of attention, probably a nice book deal etc.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3219418)
You repeatedly say "she has nothing to gain from this". I'm pointing out she does. You may not think the pros outweigh the cons but I personally would be willing to take your above con-list in exchange for $1M and to be face/darling of a major movement.

(Add the gofundme to the list of pros also but not sure how much $ is in there right now).

Now - I am not saying she is doing this for money. I don't think she has proven her allegation however I can easily believe an intoxicated Kavanaugh did what she said he did. I'm just saying she does have "pros" from going public.


These posts aging real well.



CrimsonFox 11-10-2018 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick (Post 3222947)
GOP: Stop counting the ballots in Florida, where we're ahead, but count every last ballot in Arizona, where we're behind.




"uh oh , Doctor it seems we've traveled back to 2000. There are people protesting and banging on things shouting for them to stop counting ballots of some sort. Why would they want to STOP counting ballots in an election?"

AlexB 11-10-2018 04:29 AM

The one thing I do agree with Trump on is that it is an absolute shower that they are not able to count the votes within 24 hours, let alone 4 days.

The rest of his comments are the usual blinkered invective, but something needs to be done to prevent any possible inference of manipulation (either way). With district gerrymandering such as that posted earlier and delayed votes, it does emit echoes of Tammany Hall era politics.

Edward64 11-10-2018 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3222955)
These posts aging real well.


It's been < 2 months. Let's have it really age and come back to revisit in 2-3 years.

There were the RCP and Slate links in the NPR artcle which also provided more context. Admittedly the RCP is something a right-winger would write but it does lay out some "facts". The Slate is more balanced while referencing the RCP article.

(Thanks for including the last sentence in the second quote. I still stand by that)

Edward64 11-10-2018 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB (Post 3222961)
The one thing I do agree with Trump on is that it is an absolute shower that they are not able to count the votes within 24 hours, let alone 4 days.


Anyone know why isn't there electronic voting in FL/Broward?

JPhillips 11-10-2018 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB (Post 3222961)
The one thing I do agree with Trump on is that it is an absolute shower that they are not able to count the votes within 24 hours, let alone 4 days.

The rest of his comments are the usual blinkered invective, but something needs to be done to prevent any possible inference of manipulation (either way). With district gerrymandering such as that posted earlier and delayed votes, it does emit echoes of Tammany Hall era politics.


This happens every election, it's just that the margins are great enough that it doesn't effect the outcome. There's currently no evidence suggesting anything other than a typical election tally in both AZ and FL.

JPhillips 11-10-2018 08:25 AM

dola

So far today Trump has threatened to pull federal firefighting funds from CA and cancelled a trip to the American WW1 cemetery because it is raining.

AlexB 11-10-2018 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3222970)
This happens every election, it's just that the margins are great enough that it doesn't effect the outcome. There's currently no evidence suggesting anything other than a typical election tally in both AZ and FL.


Just because it happens in every election doesn’t mean it is acceptable in a developed nation.

miami_fan 11-10-2018 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3222967)
Anyone know why isn't there electronic voting in FL/Broward?


According to this article, we do.

Should you request a paper ballot to keep your vote secure from hackers?

However...
Quote:

These paperless voting machines are especially problematic because even if such a machine were known or suspected to have been hacked, there’s no physical backup ballot to check it against—and therefore no way to determine for certain whether the vote an individual cast matched with the vote that the machine recorded. Worse still, some of the states with the poorest voting-system security are also electoral heavyweights, including Georgia, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Florida. It’s a state of vulnerability that’s especially concerning considering recent warnings from leaders like Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats, who in July cautioned that “the warning lights are blinking red” for potentially catastrophic cyberattacks on the nation’s most important digital infrastructure, including on our election systems.

JPhillips 11-10-2018 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB (Post 3222974)
Just because it happens in every election doesn’t mean it is acceptable in a developed nation.


No, but it does make it far less likely that it's driven by fraud.


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