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RainMaker 01-21-2021 11:40 PM

So any chance the Dems bust the filibuster?

AlexB 01-22-2021 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3324914)
Universal healthcare, under the Canadian/UK/whatever models usually discussed and suggested, i.e. government-run single-payer, involves people being required to go to the doctor for regular checkups whether they want to or not. It involves them being taxed for the program, limiting their economic liberty. Instead of them choosing what insurance to purchase, what doctors to utilize, etc. those aspects are controlled by whatever entity or agency is set up under the program. All of those are relevant aspects of liberty.


Not the case here FYI

GrantDawg 01-22-2021 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3324956)
So any chance the Dems bust the filibuster?

No. They don't have the votes. McConnell is holding up the power sharing set up in the Senate just on the threat of the possibility, and Schumer can't even get that approved. Honestly, the Dems suck at this. Schumer is going to have to get his party in line and push through at least the committee assignments. They constantly legislate like they have no power.

Butter 01-22-2021 07:34 AM

I don't understand the people that say that Medicare for All is going to limit their medical choice. Do you really think ANYBODY doctor-wise is going to opt-out? And if they do, they might as well shut down or retire. And if the complaint is that the really popular doctors are going to become harder to see, isn't that really just the "market" deciding who the best doctors are? Is that really Medicare limiting your choice?

I don't get the arguments against.

People that currently work in the insurance industry are still going to be needed either in their current roles or in government positions most likely, though I'll be very surprised if large scale "government-run" healthcare is implemented in my lifetime.

albionmoonlight 01-22-2021 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3324956)
So any chance the Dems bust the filibuster?


McConnell is basically daring them to. Which he'd only do if he was confident that they would not actually do it.

ISiddiqui 01-22-2021 09:44 AM

McConnell wants them to recommit to the filibuster, which probably isn't going to happen. He basically wants the Dems on record saying they support it, so he can use it against them in case Manchin and Synema get fed up enough to vote to shelve it (right now both have said they won't overturn the filibuster)

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

BYU 14 01-22-2021 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter (Post 3324965)
I don't understand the people that say that Medicare for All is going to limit their medical choice. Do you really think ANYBODY doctor-wise is going to opt-out? And if they do, they might as well shut down or retire. And if the complaint is that the really popular doctors are going to become harder to see, isn't that really just the "market" deciding who the best doctors are? Is that really Medicare limiting your choice?
.


This is overblown, I have worked for a Government Healthcare contractor for nearly half of my 30 years in the industry and there is never an issue getting adequate coverage. We even have a robust network here in places like Scottsdale, which does not have a high Medicaid member base.

If the current model is kept if/when it happens, there will likely still be room for individual payers to negotiate contracts that very from the standard CMS rates, which applies to about 30% or our current network, particularly behavioral health.

So the fear of not having good/enough providers is greatly overstated.

Edward64 01-22-2021 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 3324929)
Where I live (high SES town of under 100,000 with two healthcare systems and a lot of private practices), there is a 3-12 month wait to get in to see most specialists, and those are often mid-level providers like nurse practitioners or physician assistants.


Not commenting on the broader discussion but specifically on the quote above.

I'm about 20 miles north of Atlanta and honestly, haven't had this problem. I've gone to seen specialists for X (not life threatening) pre-Covid and we're talking 3-4 weeks at most.

I'll also add that my wife has gone to see specialists X, Y, Z pre-Covid and also during Covid and same experience.

FWIW, below article is for "doctors" but there are different tabs for "specialists".

How long will you wait to see a doctor? - CNNMoney

Ksyrup 01-22-2021 11:02 AM

I've definitely seen a difference since Covid. Had to reschedule a simple annual physical with a non-doctor and it's 3 months out. Eye doctor was 12 weeks minimum when THEY had to reschedule due to a Covid issue. What was supposed to be a 6 week follow-up ended up being 4 months.

Atocep 01-22-2021 01:53 PM

Dems are probably going to have to change senate rules just to get their majority in place. McConnell is holding everything hostage and refusing to sign off on the new senate rules unless Dems agree to take the filibuster off the table, which would be an absolutely stupid thing to do.

Until this is resolved we have a GOP majority on most committees and the GOP is effectively in majority control as the minority.

thesloppy 01-22-2021 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3325023)
Until this is resolved we have a GOP majority on most committees and the GOP is effectively in majority control as the minority.



The story of modern America.

kingfc22 01-22-2021 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesloppy (Post 3325028)
The story of modern America.


Absolutely nailed it.

thesloppy 01-22-2021 02:15 PM

..and they're practically not even governing any more. The modern GOP's sole purpose seems to be to make sure that any progress that could take place in 10 years takes 20 instead.

JPhillips 01-22-2021 02:44 PM

The GOP in NH is hard at work eliminating same-day voter registration. They'll be a ton of voter restrictions over the next two years.

rjolley 01-22-2021 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3325023)
Dems are probably going to have to change senate rules just to get their majority in place. McConnell is holding everything hostage and refusing to sign off on the new senate rules unless Dems agree to take the filibuster off the table, which would be an absolutely stupid thing to do.

Until this is resolved we have a GOP majority on most committees and the GOP is effectively in majority control as the minority.


Is there an explanation on how that works? The Democrats have the majority. Don't they get to set the rules and the Republicans have to hope they like the rules that are laid out? Is it related to the 50-50 status of the Senate? Or does this kind of negotiation happen every couple of years but we never hear about it?

bob 01-22-2021 03:13 PM

Does the whole "waiving $10K+ of student debt" feel like vote buying to anyone else? It does nothing to solve the long term issue and feels fundamentally regressive.

And before any tries the bullshit argument of "well since other people died of cancer I guess we can't cure it in the future", try this: let's make college free going forward and tell those with loans that they still have to pay them. They should have no issue with it, since while it sucks for them, it will be better for those coming behind them. I'm sure they won't complain about it being unfair.

Atocep 01-22-2021 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjolley (Post 3325048)
Is there an explanation on how that works? The Democrats have the majority. Don't they get to set the rules and the Republicans have to hope they like the rules that are laid out? Is it related to the 50-50 status of the Senate? Or does this kind of negotiation happen every couple of years but we never hear about it?


Dems and Mitch are trying to use the precedent set by Bush's first term on how to operate under a 50/50 split as they set the rules for the new Senate session. I'm not sure if these rules are voted on annually, biannually, or only in the event of a change in majority. Everyone is OK with using previous precedent,though, except Mitch insists on also adding the part about keeping the filibuster in place as part of those rules. The rules can be filibustered as well so Mitch is basically using this to cling to senate majority through the confirmations.

Dems options here are to wait out Mitch, which doesn't make sense because his goal is to drag this out and keep Biden's administration from getting off the ground with senate majority support or they eliminate the filibuster from the start and force the rules through that way. At which point mitch is guarantees to cry about not following democratic norms.

rjolley 01-22-2021 03:18 PM

Thanks Atocep.

So, can they do away with the filibuster then bring it back if they lose the Senate in 2022? Or suspend it for a year or 2? At this point, make some moves in your favor.

Butter 01-22-2021 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3325049)
Does the whole "waiving $10K+ of student debt" feel like vote buying to anyone else? It does nothing to solve the long term issue and feels fundamentally regressive.

And before any tries the bullshit argument of "well since other people died of cancer I guess we can't cure it in the future", try this: let's make college free going forward and tell those with loans that they still have to pay them. They should have no issue with it, since while it sucks for them, it will be better for those coming behind them. I'm sure they won't complain about it being unfair.


So by that logic, anything the Dems do to improve the lives of the poor can be denigrated as vote buying.

Cool logic

bob 01-22-2021 03:21 PM

That's not what I meant at all. Obviously any policy has winners and losers. But to me at least this feels different than tax rate changes or medical plans. Its basically "hey, here is $10k off your student loans regardless of whether or not you need it or not." And it doesn't actually fix any problem. We are back in the same situation before Biden's term is over.

Also its probably not helping much of the poor since they aren't the ones with student loans in the first place. It would help the poor to make college free going forward. Then the poor could go to college.

Edward64 01-22-2021 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3325049)
Does the whole "waiving $10K+ of student debt" feel like vote buying to anyone else? It does nothing to solve the long term issue and feels fundamentally regressive.


It definitely is vote buying and to appease the progressive base (who I believe wanted a much larger number). Rough swag on cost

Quote:

Approx 42M students with federal debt. 42M x $10,000 = $420B

I do think it's unfair, I'm paying for my kids college but (assume) I won't get that debt relief (now that I think about it, I should have signed up for loans last year). Same for those with non-Federal debt (but not sure if those are eligible).

But overall, I'm okay with it.

I would much prefer if we waived the student debt but asked people to pay back with community service (e.g. volunteer for habitat for humanity etc.). Biden said something similar last year but don't think this is part of the $10,000 proposal now.

And I would also like to put pressure on the universities/colleges to help pay part of the debt as they directly benefited from it. Heck, ask colleges with big endowments to cough up % to help pay for it.

Quote:

The five institutions with the largest endowments in 2017 were Harvard University ($37 billion), Yale University ($27 billion), the University of Texas System ($26 billion), Stanford University ($25 billion), and Princeton University ($23 billion).

ISiddiqui 01-22-2021 04:00 PM

I don't see how student loan forgiveness is any more vote buying than big tax cuts (tax cuts are even sold that way - you'll be able to keep X amount more).

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Edward64 01-22-2021 04:21 PM

Arguably the $10,000 would be better used to send out to other needy folks.

E.g. additional +$1,000 for 10 months for 42M unemployed etc

ISiddiqui 01-22-2021 05:02 PM

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. People have noted that the increase in 20somethings moving back in with their parents (which has been a thing which has been mocked by many) is likely due to those young adults having so much in loans that taking out a mortgage for a new home is simply off the table. (Home ownership rates for 20-34 year olds has gone from 44% in 1960 to 34% in 2017 - while they have stayed the same for 35-64 at 67% and gone up for 65+ from 67% to 78%)

And a lot of those folks are going to spend on different industries than those who are below the poverty line might.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Atocep 01-22-2021 05:08 PM

Student loan debt is an issue this country will have to deal with at some point. At the rate we're going it will cripple an entire generation and continue to get worse for future generations. It can be argued whether now is the right time or not and that's definitely a valid conversation to have, but we need to do something.

NobodyHere 01-22-2021 05:09 PM

Let's start by putting restrictions on the loans so we're not giving them to people who aren't likely to pay it back.

Radii 01-22-2021 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3325049)
let's make college free


I quoted all of the words in your post that I agree with.

RainMaker 01-22-2021 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3325074)
Let's start by putting restrictions on the loans so we're not giving them to people who aren't likely to pay it back.


Start with the banks.

RainMaker 01-22-2021 06:09 PM

This country in a nutshell. If a college graduate can't pay back their debt, they are put in a lifetime of financial peril which destroys their chance of every obtaining credit and brings calls from the public to regulate them. When JP Morgan can't pay back their debt, we print a fuckton of money and hand it to them.

Lathum 01-22-2021 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3325091)
This country in a nutshell. If a college graduate can't pay back their debt, they are put in a lifetime of financial peril which destroys their chance of every obtaining credit and brings calls from the public to regulate them. When JP Morgan can't pay back their debt, we print a fuckton of money and hand it to them.


Anytime student loan forgiveness comes up the people who really piss me off are the ones who are like "I paid mine back, why should I be punished..."

Like, nothing would make me happier than my niece who is currently studying at Rutgers to have no debt, and my kids to have none, and for me to not have to put 2K a month aside so my kids don't have debt.

How many talented doctors, scientists, etc...have we lost because the prospect of crushing debt kept them from going into that field.

People are such assholes.

RainMaker 01-22-2021 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3325023)
Dems are probably going to have to change senate rules just to get their majority in place. McConnell is holding everything hostage and refusing to sign off on the new senate rules unless Dems agree to take the filibuster off the table, which would be an absolutely stupid thing to do.

Until this is resolved we have a GOP majority on most committees and the GOP is effectively in majority control as the minority.


Just kill the filibuster. The GOP only gets to act in control as the minority because the Democrats allow it.

NobodyHere 01-22-2021 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3325091)
This country in a nutshell. If a college graduate can't pay back their debt, they are put in a lifetime of financial peril which destroys their chance of every obtaining credit and brings calls from the public to regulate them. When JP Morgan can't pay back their debt, we print a fuckton of money and hand it to them.


JP Morgan paid back the money.

bob 01-22-2021 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3325103)
Anytime student loan forgiveness comes up the people who really piss me off are the ones who are like "I paid mine back, why should I be punished..."

Like, nothing would make me happier than my niece who is currently studying at Rutgers to have no debt, and my kids to have none, and for me to not have to put 2K a month aside so my kids don't have debt.

How many talented doctors, scientists, etc...have we lost because the prospect of crushing debt kept them from going into that field.

People are such assholes.


I hope that’s not directed at me as I’ve said make college free. But I see NO plans for that. Only this $10k debt forgiveness that does nothing to solve the problem. And before you bring this up yes we can do both, but I see no plans to do anything about the cost of college.

Lathum 01-22-2021 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3325110)
I hope that’s not directed at me as I’ve said make college free. But I see NO plans for that. Only this $10k debt forgiveness that does nothing to solve the problem. And before you bring this up yes we can do both, but I see no plans to do anything about the cost of college.


not at all

RainMaker 01-22-2021 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3325108)
JP Morgan paid back the money.


A lot of people could pay back their debt if you printed a ton of money for them at next to zero interest rate.

Also many banks didn't pay it back.

Edward64 01-22-2021 08:23 PM

Bailout Tracker | ProPublica
Quote:

While the Treasury has paid out money to 984 recipients, only 780 of those received funds via investments meant to return money to taxpayers. The rest received subsidies through TARP’s housing programs – that money (so far totaling $30.9 billion) isn’t coming back.

Of the 780 investments made by the Treasury, 637 have resulted in a profit. 138 of the investments resulted in a loss. So far, the profits amount to $48.3 billion, while the losses amount to $17.2 billion. 5 of the investments are still outstanding.

Edward64 01-22-2021 08:31 PM

Interesting read. If true that $10,000 will help the most needy and clear their debt, and assuming those that have higher balances can ultimately take care of themselves ... I'm good with spending the approx. $420B and wiping needy's slate clean (and somehow getting some money back from higher ed institutions).

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/expe...rgiveness.html
Quote:

But Walker says the universal $10,000 figure strikes a good balance of providing significant relief to all borrowers while also helping those who are struggling the most.

″$10,000 would benefit everyone, which in and of itself is a form of stimulus which would help in the current economic environment,” he says. “And the pain of student loan payments are disproportionately felt by those who borrow a relatively small amount. Borrowers who owe $10,000 or less tend to be the ones who are closest to the point of default, who are struggling the most to make payments.”

He argues that while it may seem “counterintuitive,” borrowers with the highest student debt burdens are not always the individuals who need the most assistance.

“When it comes to people who owe $50,000 or more, there are definitely some people in there who are struggling,” says Walker. “But they often tend to be graduate and in particular, professional school graduates, who often have relatively good financial prospects.”

RainMaker 01-22-2021 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3325117)


Banks used other government loans to pay back these government loans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...dT1R_blog.html

Again, easy to pay back loans if you have unlimited access to capital and the government backs all your risk.

Edward64 01-22-2021 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3325130)
Banks used other government loans to pay back these government loans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...dT1R_blog.html

Again, easy to pay back loans if you have unlimited access to capital and the government backs all your risk.


I was unable to find any info specific to TARP 2.0 and any profit/loss but here's is a Nov 2020 list of what is owed per bank and the profit/loss. The WP article said TARP 2.0 was $30B program which is relatively small compared to profits in the article.

If you have a better article detailing that we "lost" money in loaning money to banks, provide the source. Otherwise, I'll conclude this is a pretty good and official count.

Bailout List: Banks, Auto Companies, and More | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica
Quote:

We're tracking where taxpayer money has gone in the ongoing bailout of the financial system. Our database accounts for both the broader $700 billion bill and the separate bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

For each entity, we provide a “Net Outstanding” amount, which shows how deep taxpayers are in the hole after accounting for any revenue the government has received (usually through interest or dividends).

Companies that failed to repay the government and resulted in a loss are shaded red. You can see a list of those investments here. All other investments either returned a profit to the government or might still be repaid. Recipients of aid through TARP’s housing programs (such as mortgage servicers and state housing orgs) received subsidies that were never intended to be repaid, so we don’t mark those as losses..

Not a bad result with stabilizing the financial system at the height of a crisis and coming out with a nice tidy profit.

Edward64 01-22-2021 10:19 PM

I knew about the multiple pens but didn't know the brand, type.

Quote:

When President Joe Biden sat down after his inauguration to sign a slew of executive orders, alongside the stack of navy folders was a wooden box, situated within easy reach.

Inside that box, ready for use, lay a neat row of pens.

But why so many pens? As Biden continues to sign more executive orders -- 17 on Wednesday alone, and 13 more in the days following -- it raises a question: Is one not enough?

Well, like everything to do with the White House, it's mainly because of tradition.
:
Of course, it's not just the number of pens that matters, but the type.

Biden, for example, reinvoked tradition by using a Cross pen, specifically the Cross Century II, according to manufacturer A.T. Cross.
Former president Donald Trump initially used the Century II felt tip pen, but then -- like so many facets of his presidency -- broke with tradition, instead preferring a Sharpie.

Presidents Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton all used the Cross Townsend pen, although Obama later switched to the Century II.

You too can feel Presidential for $70

https://www.amazon.com/Cross-Selecti.../dp/B00000IRGK

RainMaker 01-22-2021 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3325133)
I was unable to find any info specific to TARP 2.0 and any profit/loss but here's is a Nov 2020 list of what is owed per bank and the profit/loss. The WP article said TARP 2.0 was $30B program which is relatively small compared to profits in the article.

If you have a better article detailing that we "lost" money in loaning money to banks, provide the source. Otherwise, I'll conclude this is a pretty good and official count.

Bailout List: Banks, Auto Companies, and More | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica


Not a bad result with stabilizing the financial system at the height of a crisis and coming out with a nice tidy profit.


Is it paying it back of it is done with our own money?

If we gave every graduate unlimited access to cheap credit markets, they too would pay back their student loans. Especially if you bail them out of every bad investment they make.

Also banks can file bankruptcy which puts pressure on creditors, student loans can't be discharged thanks to our President.

CrimsonFox 01-22-2021 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3325135)
I knew about the multiple pens but didn't know the brand, type.



You too can feel Presidential for $70

https://www.amazon.com/Cross-Selecti.../dp/B00000IRGK


oh yeah the stupid sharpie....and you know why the sharpie was used....so it would show up in pictures taken of him when he held it up. I am SOSOSOSO GLAD that we don't have that stupid insipid holding up every document for the camera and a group of zealots around him applauding every single one. So refreshing...just sign it and get the shit done. yay move on!

regarding the multiple pens...

I guess there's a civilization of pens living in a far away place. And these pens traveled millions of miles to be the pens of their destined executive order!

And pictures of these pens are on display on banners through their pen land! See that pen? it ended slavery.
See this one? It made farting illegal in movie theatres.

NobodyHere 01-23-2021 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3325137)
Is it paying it back of it is done with our own money?

If we gave every graduate unlimited access to cheap credit markets, they too would pay back their student loans. Especially if you bail them out of every bad investment they make.

Also banks can file bankruptcy which puts pressure on creditors, student loans can't be discharged thanks to our President.


WTH are you even arguing now?

RainMaker 01-23-2021 01:51 AM

That before we shit on people struggling with student loans, maybe direct that vitriol toward banks and investment firms that have gotten trillions in aid.

JP Morgan should be out of business.

NobodyHere 01-23-2021 02:10 AM

Why should JP Morgan be out of business? Because they paid back loans they didn't need in the first place?

RainMaker 01-23-2021 05:33 AM

JP Morgan had almost $10 trillion in derivatives that would have bankrupted them had the feds not fully guaranteed the payment obligations. Shit, the sweetheart deal they got from the Fed to buy Bear Stearns was out of self preservation because they had so much exposure.

They paid back TARP but did they pay back all the toxic assets Bear Stearns had wiped off the book by the Fed before their sale to JP Morgan?

Edward64 01-23-2021 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3325142)
WTH are you even arguing now?


This discussion is obviously eroding, going into tangents, and not be productive ... so I'll leave it to you both to discuss the more metaphysical aspect of it.

I joined the conversation here and wanted to rebut the implication that banks "have not (aren't) likely to pay it back".

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere View Post
Let's start by putting restrictions on the loans so we're not giving them to people who aren't likely to pay it back.

Start with the banks.

To conclude my points (unless there is a link that shows otherwise)

1) I have provided links that shows TARP "profit and loss". Some banks that used TARP have not yet paid back their loans but as a whole, the TARP "bailout" (but more like a loan) has turned a nice profit (e.g. loaned and paid back with interest)

2) re: TARP 2.0, I've not been able to find a source detailing the "profit/loss". But per the WaPo article, it's funds were a relatively small $30B so irrelevant

3) I will also say TARP was necessary at the point in time. It prevented the freeze to the credit system, collapse of the trust of the US system etc. and without the Fed acting the way it did, a fair-to-good chance the financial system would have crashed resulting in a bigger mess worldwide

Atocep 01-23-2021 10:51 AM

Tom Cotton busted for lying about his military career. He was ranger qualified (graduated ranger school), but never served in a ranger battalion. He's spent his political career telling everyone he was a ranger in Iraq and Afghanistan though.

These are things that used to matter to GOP voters but I don't see it making much of a difference at this point.

GrantDawg 01-23-2021 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3324979)
Not commenting on the broader discussion but specifically on the quote above.

I'm about 20 miles north of Atlanta and honestly, haven't had this problem. I've gone to seen specialists for X (not life threatening) pre-Covid and we're talking 3-4 weeks at most.

I'll also add that my wife has gone to see specialists X, Y, Z pre-Covid and also during Covid and same experience.

FWIW, below article is for "doctors" but there are different tabs for "specialists".

How long will you wait to see a doctor? - CNNMoney

I live on the south end of Atlanta. It often takes two-three months to see specialist. Heck, my wife and daughter both work for different eye doctors and they are both filled up three months in advanced. There are large portions of south Georgia that there are no specialist with one hour driving distance and long wait times. That largely comes from high uninsured population.
edit: Notice that article is only listing major metro areas that will have a higher concentration of doctors. How about the outer suburbs or rural areas?

GrantDawg 01-23-2021 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3325050)
Dems and Mitch are trying to use the precedent set by Bush's first term on how to operate under a 50/50 split as they set the rules for the new Senate session. I'm not sure if these rules are voted on annually, biannually, or only in the event of a change in majority. Everyone is OK with using previous precedent,though, except Mitch insists on also adding the part about keeping the filibuster in place as part of those rules. The rules can be filibustered as well so Mitch is basically using this to cling to senate majority through the confirmations.

Dems options here are to wait out Mitch, which doesn't make sense because his goal is to drag this out and keep Biden's administration from getting off the ground with senate majority support or they eliminate the filibuster from the start and force the rules through that way. At which point mitch is guarantees to cry about not following democratic norms.

Democratic norms? You know the 60 vote filibuster is only 20 years old? They used to have to actually filibuster to stop votes. The 60 vote super-majority is a very recent add on to the Senate, and is an abject failure. It needs to go.

molson 01-23-2021 11:37 AM

Student loan cancellation seems to have been gained support over the last few years, but one other thing that would act a little less as a stimulus, but would be incredibly helpful for millions of people, would be to hack everybody's interest rate, or eliminate the interest rates entirely. There are federal student loans out there now that are over 10%. 8% is very common. Often on six-figure debt. That's basically impossible to ever dig out of. Plus it's had the impact of influencing people to re-finance into 5% private loans, thus disquaflying themselves from any loan forgiveness or cancellation in the future.

I was very fortunate to get my federal loans locked in at under 3% back in 2006 after law school. I focused paying the private loans off first. I still owe around $40k on the federal. With the low rates, and the interest being paused over the last year, I've slowed down payments - that also makes sense to do in hope of future cancellation. But I would definitely being living a different life, and contributing to the economy a lot less, if I had higher interest rates, and didn't have access to some public service grants that knocked off some of the balance. I started at around $125k. And my first job as a misdemeanor prosecutor paid under $40k. It was brutal starting out then, even in professional employment, and it's even worse now.

RainMaker 01-23-2021 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3325172)
Democratic norms? You know the 60 vote filibuster is only 20 years old? They used to have to actually filibuster to stop votes. The 60 vote super-majority is a very recent add on to the Senate, and is an abject failure. It needs to go.


Republicans dropped it for Supreme Court justices just a few months ago. Its a silly rule.

PilotMan 01-23-2021 03:44 PM

If people really want to understand what the freedom of speech looks like and differentiate between the real thing, and getting kicked off twitter, they should pay attention to Russia today.

Edward64 01-24-2021 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3325175)
Student loan cancellation seems to have been gained support over the last few years, but one other thing that would act a little less as a stimulus, but would be incredibly helpful for millions of people, would be to hack everybody's interest rate, or eliminate the interest rates entirely. There are federal student loans out there now that are over 10%. 8% is very common. Often on six-figure debt. That's basically impossible to ever dig out of.


I actually didn't realize Fed student loans had rates that high? I always thought it was a low/favorable interest rate deal (like at prime + 1). Yeah, 8-10% is pretty bad so I like your option.

Edward64 01-24-2021 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3325171)
I live on the south end of Atlanta. It often takes two-three months to see specialist. Heck, my wife and daughter both work for different eye doctors and they are both filled up three months in advanced. There are large portions of south Georgia that there are no specialist with one hour driving distance and long wait times. That largely comes from high uninsured population.
edit: Notice that article is only listing major metro areas that will have a higher concentration of doctors. How about the outer suburbs or rural areas?


Fair observation. Here's another link, no idea how credible it is. If someone else has studies, please share it.

The Truth on Wait Times in Universal Coverage Systems - Center for American Progress
Quote:

Where a patient lives has a significant effect on their wait time, largely due to provider concentration in more urban areas compared with more rural ones. For example, a 2017 analysis of hospital wait times found that mid-size metropolitan areas—cities such as Hartford, Connecticut—had 32.8 percent longer wait times than large metropolitan areas such as Washington, D.C.3 A recent article in the Journal of the American Medical Association further supports this idea.4 The study found that wait times at private-sector hospitals ranged from 16.5 days in New York City to 57.33 days in Boston, Massachusetts.

Comparing wait times with other countries, not sure how good the comparison is but a hint on "specialist appointments ... 6% waiting 2 months or longer". Not sure if you can extrapolate to mean 94% had less than 2 months to see a specialist.
Quote:

in the United States, 4 percent of patients reported waiting four months or longer for nonemergency surgery, compared with only 2 percent of French patients and 0 percent of German patients.16 For specialist appointments, the situation is even worse: 6 percent of U.S. patients reported waiting two months or longer for an appointment, compared with only 4 percent of French patients and 3 percent of German patients.17

Edward64 01-24-2021 08:03 AM

No idea how credible of a threat the Alexey Navalny mass demonstrations are.

It's pretty obvious Putin is a dictator for life but still enjoys 60+% favorability ratings. I do think Putin did help Russia in the early days after the incompetence of Boris Yeltsin so he should definitely get kudos for that.

Western style democracies don't work for all countries and not surprised it didn't work for Russia.

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/20...ests-in-russia
Quote:

Russian police have arrested more than 3,000 people in nationwide protests demanding the release of opposition leader Alexey Navalny, the Kremlin’s most prominent foe.

The unprecedented demonstrations in more than 60 cities – in temperatures as low as -50 Celsius (-58 Fahrenheit) – highlighted how Navalny has built influence far beyond the political and cultural centres of Moscow and St Petersburg.

In Moscow, an estimated 15,000 demonstrators gathered in and around Pushkin Square in the city centre, where clashes with police broke out and demonstrators were dragged off by helmeted riot officers to police buses and detention trucks. Some were beaten with batons.

miked 01-24-2021 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3325227)
I actually didn't realize Fed student loans had rates that high? I always thought it was a low/favorable interest rate deal (like at prime + 1). Yeah, 8-10% is pretty bad so I like your option.


My brother graduated in the early 2000s (maybe 2002), he had a rate of like 3% locked in while he was in school. As soon as he graduated, the company that held his loan sold it to a different servicer and they increased his rate to nearly 10% saying he did not have a long credit history (no shit). After years of paying it and fighting, he finally got them to reduce it to like 7% if he accelerated and paid it off in 2 years or something.

Mine was like 4% and I got deferrals while I was in grad school, and then paid it off as soon as I could. Hard to do when you are making $15k as a grad student and then $35k as a postdoc for 4 more years after that.

NobodyHere 01-24-2021 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 3325244)
My brother graduated in the early 2000s (maybe 2002), he had a rate of like 3% locked in while he was in school. As soon as he graduated, the company that held his loan sold it to a different servicer and they increased his rate to nearly 10% saying he did not have a long credit history (no shit). After years of paying it and fighting, he finally got them to reduce it to like 7% if he accelerated and paid it off in 2 years or something.

Mine was like 4% and I got deferrals while I was in grad school, and then paid it off as soon as I could. Hard to do when you are making $15k as a grad student and then $35k as a postdoc for 4 more years after that.


Changing rates seems pretty shady, especially for one who hadn't missed a payment.

sterlingice 01-24-2021 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3325246)
Changing rates seems pretty shady, especially for one who hadn't missed a payment.


Happened to me, too, on 2 of my loans. I consolidated them but it still was at a significantly less favorable rate (6%?). There's a lot of shady stuff going on in that industry and it genuinely is crippling the wealth of a significantly portion of younger generations.

SI

sabotai 01-24-2021 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 3325249)
Happened to me, too, on 2 of my loans. I consolidated them but it still was at a significantly less favorable rate (6%?). There's a lot of shady stuff going on in that industry and it genuinely is crippling the wealth of a significantly portion of younger generations.

SI


Same here. All my loans were ~3% through college, and shortly after I graduated, they were changed to ~6%. Not too big of a deal for me, though, since I'm old to enough to have gone to college when it was affordable. What I had in 4.5 years of loans is what someone takes on in just 1 now.

sterlingice 01-24-2021 11:35 AM

Yeah, I was fortunate as well - this was back in 2004 and I "only" had about $40K in loans. Made my last payment the month before I turned 30 and that was an amazing feeling.

Problem is that boring old public university cost is more that double what it was when I went and that was only about 15 years ago. In-state for most schools now costs more (sometimes significantly more) than out-of-state did when I went.

SI

Ghost Econ 01-24-2021 02:59 PM

We finally finished paying off my student loans last year at 1.25%. Took 16 years. I didn't even have that much (~50k). Thankfully my wife's parents paid for her college and grad school, but about 40% of the reason I decided not to skip law school acceptance was I knew we'd never have a family if I went.

kingfc22 01-24-2021 03:30 PM

Can we get back on point. There’s a caravan of brown people coming!

Oh wait, Fox News hasn’t focused on it since the inauguration. Almost like it was a nothing burger all along.

It’s funny to check their website daily to see what impending doom is coming while they try to sweep an insurrection under the rug.

Edward64 01-24-2021 05:46 PM

Biden is pretty organized, he's got key themes for each day next week. Immigration and brown people this Fri.

In the meantime, he has supposedly proposed $4B to Mexico and LATAM.

JPhillips 01-25-2021 12:55 PM

At least Sinema and Manchin are strongly opposed to changing filibuster rules.

I know it's a little more complicated than this, but it's crazy how the GOP will do what it takes to enact a largely unpopular agenda while Dems won't do what it takes to enact a largely popular agenda.

JPhillips 01-25-2021 01:04 PM

Sarah Sanders' announcement that she's running for AR Gov contains the perfect summation of the emptiness of GOP policy.

Quote:

"I took on the media, the radical left and their 'cancel culture,' and I won. As governor, I will be your voice, and never let them silence you."

bob 01-25-2021 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3324218)

Two questions I haven’t answered about this potential $600 -> $2000 stimulus.

1. How does the calculation work. Right now, for every $20 of income you make over the threshold, you lose $1 of stimulus. Will this new $1400 be processed as a new stimulus payment subject to that same calculation or as an modification to the original payment?

2. Which payments go up to $2000? Just the parents or some / all dependents too?

To clarify #1.

Single person, no dependents. Original $600 Stimulus starts to phase out at $75k, fully gone at $87k. $600 - ($87k-75k) / 20 = 0

Let’s say a person makes $87k. Is this a change to the original stimulus, so this person would get the $1400, or do we run this money through the calculation again, which means they get $800?

$2000 - ($87k-75k) / 20 = $1400

Or

$1400 - ($87k-75k) / 20 = $800


To circle back on this, I haven't seen much lately about the stimulus, but one article did suggest that the additional $1400 would also phase out at $87k, meaning that a person that made $87k would get $0 from this overall $2000 while they did get something from the $1200 stimulus in 2020 (fully phased out at $99k).

JPhillips 01-25-2021 01:48 PM

At this point, with Dems refusing to even do what it takes to be the majority and GOP/Dem moderates complaining about the cost of the bill, I doubt we'll see anything close to 1400 if anything passes at all.

albionmoonlight 01-25-2021 01:59 PM

I have to think that McConnell threatening to filibuster the "Dems get to be in charge because they have the most votes in the Senate" resolution was kind of a "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" kind of thing.

I can't imagine that even he expected the Dems to be this inept.

sterlingice 01-25-2021 02:18 PM

Hello, darkness, my old friend

SI

RainMaker 01-25-2021 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3325360)
At least Sinema and Manchin are strongly opposed to changing filibuster rules.

I know it's a little more complicated than this, but it's crazy how the GOP will do what it takes to enact a largely unpopular agenda while Dems won't do what it takes to enact a largely popular agenda.


Start investigating Manchin's criminal daughter and I have a feeling he will come around.

albionmoonlight 01-25-2021 03:47 PM

Biden moving quickly to replace Andrew Jackson (Democrat) on the $20 bill with Harriet Tubman (Republican).

#Unity

Qwikshot 01-25-2021 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3325381)
Biden moving quickly to replace Andrew Jackson (Democrat) on the $20 bill with Harriet Tubman (Republican).

#Unity


Really this is the one putting it over the top? Nobody but racists would give a flying fuck over this.

Atocep 01-25-2021 05:01 PM

My wife's Facebook feed is full of doom and glooming Biden:

The pipeline order eliminated 50,000 jobs

Illegals will now count in the census

The stock market is dropping

China has a green light to take over our power grid

Biden has said he's not going to do the $1400 stimulus

China is crossing our air space and we're doing nothing

And on and on and on.

PilotMan 01-25-2021 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwikshot (Post 3325383)
Really this is the one putting it over the top? Nobody but racists would give a flying fuck over this.


So that's why it was put on hold for four years!

Thomkal 01-25-2021 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3325388)
My wife's Facebook feed is full of doom and glooming Biden:

The pipeline order eliminated 50,000 jobs

Illegals will now count in the census

The stock market is dropping

China has a green light to take over our power grid

Biden has said he's not going to do the $1400 stimulus

China is crossing our air space and we're doing nothing

And on and on and on.


my sister in law with similar they must share posts somewhere :)

Drake 01-25-2021 05:45 PM

I keep seeing the one about the XL Pipeline and counter with, "So as long as abortion clinics stay non-union, you should be opposed to those closing too, right? Because the most important thing is jobs."

cuervo72 01-25-2021 05:56 PM

I keep seeing ads for Energy Transfer. Their argument is that without the pipelines, we won't get our sweet, gas/oil energy (so, alternatives?) -- at least not without more trains, and WAY more tractor trailers (so, jobs??).

JPhillips 01-25-2021 06:29 PM

Manchin now on record saying he won't change the filibuster rules even to pass a rules package. I guess the GOP runs things.

GrantDawg 01-25-2021 07:26 PM

I would have never predicted that Manchin would completely hold up the Democratic agenda. Oh, wait. I did.

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JPhillips 01-25-2021 07:40 PM

To be fair it's apparently Manchin and Sinema at least.

RainMaker 01-25-2021 07:52 PM

Like I said, investigate his crooked daughter and he'll come around.

GrantDawg 01-25-2021 09:15 PM

McConnell is going to allow the power sharing now. He says he feels assured by the two Democrats who promises to never allow the Fillibuster to end. McConnell still dictates the Senate.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

RainMaker 01-25-2021 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3325420)
McConnell is going to allow the power sharing now. He says he feels assured by the two Democrats who promises to never allow the Fillibuster to end. McConnell still dictates the Senate.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Schumer and the Dems let him dictate the Senate. Just another example in how incompetent Congressional Dems are.

I am happy with Biden getting running right out of the gate though.

Swaggs 01-25-2021 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3325410)
Like I said, investigate his crooked daughter and he'll come around.


She is already universally loathed in the state. For those that don’t know, Manchin’s daughter was an executive at a locally founded (by a beloved West Virginian - WVU’s football stadium is named after him), successful generic pharmaceutical company. She was not well qualified, did not do the coursework but received an MBA that was revoked and resulted in the University’s president and department chair having to resign, and then became the president of the company. The company is/was headquartered in WV with great paying union jobs.

Under her watch, she moved the headquarters out of town, outsourced a lot of the manufacturing jobs, have had a few rounds of layoffs despite being very profitable and growing, and had a big scandal because they owned the patent for Epi-Pens and jacked the prices up to ~$700.00 (Epi-Pens are required for folks with allergies, so you need several for home/work/travel and they are rarely used because they expire in about a year). Last year, they merged with Upjohn and formed a new company and, right before Christmas, they announced they were closing most operations and laying off the great majority of employees (they will have laid off almost 1500 of their union employees in the last few years). She resigned last year and is now worth over $30-million.

ISiddiqui 01-26-2021 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3325420)
McConnell is going to allow the power sharing now. He says he feels assured by the two Democrats who promises to never allow the Fillibuster to end. McConnell still dictates the Senate.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I really don't get it. If Schumer tried to do the same thing: drew a line in the sand and McConnell refused to budge and then Schumer said, oh due to statements by Romney, I'm going to be satisfied even though it wasn't agreed to by GOP leadership, you'd be all clowning on Schumer. But McConnell caves (because he was afraid that the longer it dragged on that Manchin and Sinema would at least agree to end the filibuster on Committee reorganization resolutions and they didn't want to set a precedent) and y'all are like haw haw, McConnell wins.

GrantDawg 01-26-2021 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3325438)
I really don't get it. If Schumer tried to do the same thing: drew a line in the sand and McConnell refused to budge and then Schumer said, oh due to statements by Romney, I'm going to be satisfied even though it wasn't agreed to by GOP leadership, you'd be all clowning on Schumer. But McConnell caves (because he was afraid that the longer it dragged on that Manchin and Sinema would at least agree to end the filibuster on Committee reorganization resolutions and they didn't want to set a precedent) and y'all are like haw haw, McConnell wins.

Because McConnell got what he wanted. He showed how weak the Democrats are. With the filibuster there is next to no chance the Democrats are getting voting rights passed, which is vital. The GOP lead legislatures across the country are sharpening their swords and are going to cut access to voting to rival the Jim Crow era. McConnell proved that Schumer has no way to even threaten removing the veto, which is one of the few ways to at least force negotiation.


Edit: Btw, even your comparison is flawed. Schumer would have at best threatened to hold up the rules, but he would have never actually done it. Instead he would have given "a grave day" speech, and then went to get McConnell his coffee and donut.

bronconick 01-26-2021 07:01 AM

50/50 means you don't get to ram much of anything, much less killing the filibuster through. I could have told you that months ago. They probably needed 53-54 seats.

ISiddiqui 01-26-2021 09:03 AM

Right. The last time there was a 50-50 split in the W Administration there was this exact power sharing agreement.

And once again, there was no agreement to commit to the filibuster. McConnell took statements from Manchin and Sinema saying they didn't want to get rid of it as " good enough". He didn't get the Democrats on record saying they were going to keep the filibuster, which is what he wanted so he could hammer them if they ever tried to limit it.

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larrymcg421 01-26-2021 09:35 AM

I see lots of criticisms of Schumer without concrete ideas for what he should've done instead.

Atocep 01-26-2021 10:44 AM

Dems got what they wanted without giving up on removal of the filibuster. This could easily be spun as McConnell caving before too much pressure was put on Manchin and Senima and risk them changing their mind.

The basics of this is one party got what they were originally seeking and the other didn't.

GrantDawg 01-26-2021 03:05 PM

Such a different vibe:

Brian Swartz 01-26-2021 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB
Not the case here FYI


Thank you for this correction. People with personal experience in the Canadian system have said it is the case there and I thought the UK system was the same; I've been told it's considered an essential cost-control measure due to the value of preventative care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IJ Reilly
Now we have gone full circle, this is what I was trying to say in my first post. All of the liberty infringements you name in the Canada/UK model exist in our current system, it’s just that a private insurance company is making the decisions instead of a government agency.


There is a huge, fundamental difference when a government agency does it though. If you don't like what a business does, you stop being a customer of theirs. You can't 'opt out' when something is the law of the land. In one case the government tells you how to live your life, and requires you to pay into the system whether or not you use it. In the other, you are able to make a decision as a consumer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs
Sincere question: have you attempted to purchase insurance or get a healthcare appointment with a specialist for yourself, child, or parent lately and what has that experience been like?

Where I live (high SES town of under 100,000 with two healthcare systems and a lot of private practices), there is a 3-12 month wait to get in to see most specialists, and those are often mid-level providers like nurse practitioners or physician assistants.

The choices for insurance are two state approved carriers that have a handful of coverage packages, the insurance provider your company contracts with and the handful of coverage packages they offer, or state provided Medicare or Medicaid with their standard coverages (if you make below a certain household income, are disabled, or 65 or over).


This is an excellent post, I apologize for taking so long to get back to it. I guess it depends on what you mean by lately. I had oral surgery a couple of years ago, and about 6-8 years ago I had an operation on my right foot to remove bone and reattach a tendon. The latter was more of the specialist variety, as the doctor who did the operation was, from what I'm told, the top foot-and-ankle guy in this part of the state. The wait was actually less for him, a couple weeks, while it was close to two months for the oral surgeon.

To get into the rest of your point, I think there is a clear and basic distinction between military, law enforcement, transportation, etc. and something like health care. But to repeat what I've said previously in the thread, I am in favor of universal health care. I think it's worth the price in liberty that is paid. This all came up because tarcone was asking what is wrong with it, I gave two examples of opposition POV, and then this discussion eventuated.

A personal example. In the case of the foot surgery I mentioned, I was uninsured due to all alternatives including ACA being prohibitively expensive. I burned through my savings getting XRays, bone scan, MRI, etc. to nail down the problem. I should have been able to have Medicaid cover the cost of the surgery, but I was unable to bludgeon my way through the beauracracy with repeated attempts including writing a letter at one point to do so, so I was in debt for years including getting sued by the surgery center before eventually paying off the amount in full, . Many people have suffered worse of course, but the point is that this is the kind of issue that those who oppose a government-based solution are concerned about. Beauracracy doesn't have to concern itself with satisfying customers. It's in their interest not to in fact, because that creates demand for a larger budget. Meanwhile, what you described as inadequate choice in the private system still affords them the opportunity to simply not participate in it.

RainMaker 01-26-2021 08:36 PM

Hope the news on Senator Leahy isn't bad. Goes to show just how small their margin is in the Senate. Time to stop fucking around and get stuff done.

GrantDawg 01-26-2021 09:08 PM

I can't find any kind of confirmation that people in Canada are forced to have physicals. You have some kind of verification? What they do if you don't? Fine? Prison? Execution?

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BishopMVP 01-27-2021 01:08 AM

Not sure what thread is the best, but good to see state Senator Jeff Jackson announce he's running in NC for Richard Burr's opening seat. It always should have been him over Cunningham against Tillis, but (not to pull a Rainmaker) he didn't like Chuck Schumer telling him he needed to spend his time fundraising over the phone instead of meeting voters or actually legislating.

It'll be interesting because you do have a black woman in Erica Smith who lost to Cunningham in the primary running again and arguing she can pull a Stacey Abrams, but from what I can tell she's not Stacey Abrams, and despite all the yankees moving in North Carolina isn't as ready for a flip to a black woman as Georgia is. (NC is still like 75% white, Georgia is closer to 60% according to my quick wikipedia research). More importantly, I think Jackson is a really good politician!

Not sure how much it will matter, because if the Senators keep being soft the Republican Party will quite likely nominate Lara Trump, wheeeeeeeeeeeeee can't wait to be THE battleground in 2022 along with Ohio.

BishopMVP 01-27-2021 01:36 AM

(But also yeah, this is why people hate Schumer)
Power to the Person - The American Prospect

Quote:

If anyone doubted her assessment, Schumer’s interventions in North Carolina provided ample proof. First-term senator Thom Tillis is considered one of the most beatable Republicans in the country. After trying and failing to recruit a series of candidates last year, Schumer landed on moderate military veteran Cal Cunningham, a one-term state legislator in the early ’00s who lost the Democratic nomination for Senate in 2010, despite a DSCC endorsement, and hasn’t run for office since. The DSCC was determined to block state Sen. Erica Smith, who’d been running a progressive campaign from the start. “Sen. Schumer, for whatever reason, did not want an African American running for Senate in North Carolina,” Smith said. Just before they tapped Cunningham, Smith claimed that party leaders had told her, “unequivocally that they were not, had not, did not intend to endorse in the primary.” Smith stayed in, defiant but drastically outspent.

Toward the end of the campaign, a mysterious PAC—its funding later traced to the Republican Senate Leadership Fund—spent more than $2 million on dirty-trick ads touting Smith as the “true progressive” in the race and criticizing Cunningham’s stances on LGBT rights and climate change. But PACs supporting Cunningham, which put $7 million behind him, simply ramped up their spending in response. Cunningham won 57-35 on Super Tuesday.

Schumer’s quest for a non-Smith candidate in North Carolina produced the most embarrassing, and revealing, glimpse yet into the DSCC’s criteria for selecting the “strongest” candidates. Jeff Jackson, a 37-year-old National Guardsman who’s crusaded against Republican voter suppression and gerrymandering in the state Senate, met with Schumer early in 2019 to discuss his own possible candidacy. In September, long after he’d decided not to run, Jackson revealed why in a talk at UNC Charlotte. Jackson, all gung ho, said he’d outlined his plans for the campaign, telling Schumer he wanted to start with “100 town halls in 100 days” across the state.

Schumer responded brusquely, Jackson reported. “Wrong answer … We want you to spend the next 16 months in a windowless basement raising money, and then we’re going to spend 80 percent of it on negative ads about Tillis.”

That's two good D candidates in NC who were sidelined, and are now quoted in prominent political publications saying they were pushed out of the race by the Senate Majority Leader in their own party, while we had to watch Cal Cunningham blow another race vs Thom Tillis. But hey, the D's won because Trump was a uniquely unpopular candidate and the R side is more openly divided in some cases, so let's leave Schumer & Pelosi in charge.

GrantDawg 01-27-2021 07:22 AM

Good thread with lots of fun little minimum wage facts:

Brian Swartz 01-27-2021 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg
I can't find any kind of confirmation that people in Canada are forced to have physicals. You have some kind of verification?


No I don't. It would be weird for actual Canadians to lie about that while touting the virtues of their system, but I suppose it's possible.

Fidatelo 01-27-2021 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz (Post 3325565)
No I don't. It would be weird for actual Canadians to lie about that while touting the virtues of their system, but I suppose it's possible.



Actual Canadian here. I've never heard of anyone being required to have routine physicals, nor denied healthcare for not doing so. I think you have to undergo a physical before certain procedures, but I believe that is so they have a proper health record to assess your treatment and care upon (but I'm not a doctor so I don't really know for sure).


I had to have a physical a couple years ago in order to qualify for private life insurance, but that has nothing to do with the universal health care system.


I'm no expert in these matters so I may be overlooking something, or perhaps there is some missing nuance in what your Canadian friends were describing that has gotten lost in translation. But as far as I can tell no one forces me to see the doctor nor will I face punitive repercussions of any kind for not doing so.


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