That's not true. Look at 2005-06. The team hadn't made the playoffs in 4+ seasons and still averaged 15,500 a game. The next season they averaged 15,000 and this is when the NHL league average was around 16,500. In 06-07, they averaged more per home game than the Islanders, Devils, Blues, Capitals, Blackhawks, Bruins and a host of other more established markets. And, again, this for a team that was over 5 years from their last playoff appearance.

Finally, just look at this season. The city was basically told by the media that they would have no team after this season. The team hadn't made the playoffs in nearly a decade and attendance was pretty poor to start the season (crowds in the 8,000 to 9,000 range). Yet, 3-4 months later, the place is routinely getting 16,000 for a team that may not be here next season and could make the playoffs. If the Coyotes can be a competitive team and give the fans a reason to think they'll stay in town, they will go back to being around mid-league in attendance (like they were back in their playoff days).

NHL Attendance - National Hockey League - ESPN

Here's an interesting study on how the attendance has changed just this season for Phoenix. Take 3 games against the Ducks:

October 31, 2009: 6,495 in attendance (right after the first story of the Coyotes leaving being a *done deal* came out)

December 23, 2009: 10,200 in attendance (the team was getting into the playoff race and some of the leaving town stories were dying down)

March 6, 2010: 15,050 in attendance (team is now entrenched in what appears to be a solid playoff spot and playing well)

So, in a little more than four months, it went from 6,500 fans for a Coyotes-Ducks game to 15,000 fans for the same matchup. I think this shows the potential for the market if the ownership issue is stabilized and the team can be somewhat competitive.

Arles, I'm not bashing Phoenix in any way as I love the place after visiting for Spring Training and golf and would love to go again...but nothing I've seen past or present, tells me that it is a sustainable hockey market.

It just doesn't past the sniff test when I hear attendance figures like you're quoting and looking at the stands during the highlights...something doesn't jive. 16000 fans doesn't look/sound like it used to...but I guess these days the NHL likes to subscribe to creative accounting to suit it's interests...if they want to look good for new, potential business they'll say they had 16,000 tickets "sold" but if they want to report earnings to creditors then they only had 10,000 come through the gates.

Either way, that franchise is not out of the woods, yet.

Yeah, I agree it's not a top NHL market. But, given the state of their stadium and their history of attendance when the team is moderately competitive, I wouldn't put Phoenix as a top market to move. A lot of the people in Arizona (esp in the winter months) are from areas in the midwest/east and are pretty big hockey fans. If they can just get this ownership/lease issue straightened out, they should be in a pretty good position to compete for many years.

Not to make light of the situation but I wonder how much of the increase coincides with the tourist population of Phoenix increasing during those times? I know my brother-in-law was a game in Dec when he was there (paid $15/ticket) and I did the same when I was there a few years ago in March and paid similar prices.

I'm sure it's a bit of a reach but I would think wintering Canadians probably would find cheap hockey tickets a welcome distraction after a long day at the ballpark/on the links...no? ;)

I have no doubt there's a buzz in the city now that the Coyotes are playing well but the real test will be if they can sustain that to start the following season.

Most of the snowbirds come here in October and leave after spring training. Plus, the Glendale Arena is about as far as humanly possible from the main spring training facilities in Tempe, Mesa and Scottsdale. It's certainly possible some spring training people could decide to make the 40+ mile drive in rush hour traffic across the valley to see a Wednesday night game against Anaheim, but I'm guessing that's probably not too likely.

As to next season, the hope right now is that they are here next season. If that's the case, I expect attendance will be pretty solid. We've been told since last August that the team would be gone at the end of the season and that's put a big damper into attendance.

Why stay away if the team is near leaving? Shouldn't the beginning of the season be the time to "show" the league that they want the team to stay by showing up?

I know the Oilers were close to packing up a few times and if it weren't for some local Richie Rich's who bucked I'd likely be cheering for the Oklahoma Oilers or something like that.

Being told theyre near leaving is one thing, being told theyre going but would still like your money is another.

Ovechkin suspended 2 games.

Fair enough...but it didn't have to come to that in the first place...show up form the get-go and all of this could've been avoided.

Easier said than done but that's what happens when you take something for granted...but then again, I'm still not convinced that Phoenix really ever like(d) the Coyotes enough to take them for granted.

A fuckin joke. He already got tossed once this year for a boarding hit on Kaleta and a his knee-to-knee hit that got him suspended.

Ovie should have gotten between 5 and10 games for that. Matt Cooke should have gotten 10-15 for his chickenshit act.

I thought the match penalty for the Kaleta hit was rescinded?
In either case...actually surprised he got anything.

Cue all the foil-wearing nut jobs who believe the 'Penguins favored by the NHL' bullshit who will point out Ovy got two more games than Cooke.

DOLA

speaking of "foil wearing" , I don't know if I saw this posted

The Tribune Democrat, Johnstown, PA - Chiefs spark disappointment, but not shock

Wow, that's not enough. He should have gotten 4-5. I guess it was halved because he is a superstar.

The thing that saved the Oilers was their history. If you switch the on-ice results between the Jets and the Oilers during their mutual time in the league, right now Winnipeg still has a team and Oiler fans are still trying to decide if it's ok to cheer for the Flames or not.

You are probably right about that...because 99% of us are still clinging to that history and the hope that we can reclaim even just a little of bit of it!!

Oops, I don't remember the old Jets arena much. I just remember when the new one was built, I thought the attendance would have gone up but it didn't really.

Comcast/DirecTV agree on deal- Versus back on Direct

Thank God...I was getting worried as we got closer to the playoffs. That, and I missed Brian Engblom's mullet.

The attendance for what? The Moose? They don't even open the upper decks for most Moose games in the new arena if I remember right, so even if the new arena was bigger the attendance figures wouldn't have moved.

Not that I've been to many Moose games, I just cannot get into that team. I'd much prefer a WHL team over the AHL to be honest.

He got rid of it.

Not really. Winnipeg's attendance dropped from 13k to 11k for the Jets' lame duck season of 1995-96, a year in which they made the playoffs, (barely). Once you're being told the team is leaving, I wouldn't bother spending the money.

I thought I read somewhere when it first opened that the max capacity was something like 1-2K higher than the old Arena. I've been to two Moose games, one being a playoff game a couple of years ago. It was OK, but not the Jets.

What an utter load of shite.

I'm glad Versus is back on DTV, don't get me wrong, but I can't believe the misinformation/disingenuousness of the news reports about why this happened. The line between PR and news blurs, yet again.

The typical explanation:

Quote:

According to three sources who had information about the negotiations but who could not speak publicly, the high profile of hockey after the Olympics as well as anticipation for the upcoming cycling season where Versus will televise both the Tour of California and Tour de France where Lance Armstrong is expected to race, played a part in a contract agreement being reached.

You know what not ONE of these articles discusses? The little matter of THIS:


Gee, I wonder if one had to do with the other...

Not necessarily, since that incredibly stupid ruling seems destined for appeal (unless they've just decided to say fuck it & roll over since I saw the initial reaction stories).

The timing is too coincidental to not be related. Given how quickly this happened, my guess is they had already agreed to do this if the ruling came down against the cable companies, or they just rolled over this weekend. Sorry, but I doubt the Tour de France really factored much into this.

Although I'd be curious... what kind of ratings did Versus get for college football games (in, say, 2008, while on DTV) as compared to stuff like hockey or bike races? I remember seeing the Stanford upset of USC on Versus that year. My guess is college football is so popular that it hurt Versus more to be off of DTV during the fall then it would have this spring. But that's just a guess.

i think th tour de france and stanley cup playoffs played a big role too, though. there were a lot of us out there watching hockey games online, which sucked. wouldve been a big deal if no directv viewers could watch playoff hockey

would like to see a numbers breakdown though of who won. or who wanted what money before and what the settlement was in the end

Was at the Flyers game on Saturday with the last-second goal to win. Not a Flyers fan, but it was my first hockey game since I was about 4 or 5.

Chicago's Brian Campbell out 6-8 weeks thanks to Ovechkin's hit.

It almost had to be a factor since it's the most watched show on the network (which ranks 61st out of 74 carried by DTV)


This article references their dismal 0.3 rating in 2009 being flat from the previous year but down by 7.6% to 326,000 total viewers for the 25 game average.

That's fewer viewers than even this past weekend's Izod Indy Car race that aired on Sunday morning, almost as bad as the NHL (which, incidentally, actually had ratings declines for the first couple of post-Olympic games on Versus, no sign of any bounce for anyone on any network).

As one article put it, having your football games on Versus is about like having them air from Garth & Wayne's basement. It's a non-entity for the network, a non-entity for DTV.

I still think if an action is worthy of a suspension, and that action causes another player to miss time, the offender should be forced to miss every day that the affected player does, and that the suspension should be added to the end of that.

Bullshit that Ovechkin misses two games while Campbell misses potentially two months.

Say Campbell gets up and plays the rest of the game and is just fine...should Ovie be suspended?

The punishment should fit the intent, not the result. If it's determined that Ovie intended to hit Campbell from behind while he was defenseless then Ovie should get "X" number of games regardless of whether or not Campbell was hurt.

I agree, especially in instances where a player misses a lot of time. I call this the Todd Bertuzzi rule (and not the Matt Cooke rule).

Thats so easy to exploit though, youd need 3rd party doctors that both teams would be willing to agree with or else you have some scrub put on IR while Crosby cant play in the playoffs (totally made up example obviously)

Am I the only one who really doesn't think the Ovechkin hit was that bad? I hate the way he generally plays to hurt people and I think he's the second dirtiest player in the league this year (after Cam Janssen) and I have absolutely no problem with him being suspended in general. But I have to say at first glance that hit looked unfortunate rather than really malicious. If Campbell gets back up (hell if Campbell isn't such a good player) it's nowhere near a suspension.

You'd think news like this would have posted in this thread before now

What's the rule in terms of a goal off the glove/hand? Is it like the skate/leg?

The Canes get beat down by the Bruins at home, 5-2, effectively reducing their very slim playoff chances to none (down 10 with 13 to play and Washington's coming in on Thursday). On the plus side, Cole showed up for a game for the first time in a good long while (injuries and general ineffectiveness most of this season) and Jamie McBain made his NHL debut and got an assist for a hard slapper that rebounded to Cole for a goal.

It was a longshot to make the playoffs, of course, but I'm glad they didn't just roll over and die after that horrendous start. Certainly made the second half of the season much more interesting. Gotta hope now that the teams around them keep winning so they can get that number three pick in the draft (who knows, the Leafs are four back...there's hope yet for #2, even). Will certainly be an interesting offseason this year to see who goes from amongst the veterans and how many of the youngsters we've got make the permanent jump from the AHL next year.

No. I wouldn't have a problem with a boarding penalty, but sometimes guys just land awkwardly (as Travis Roy's example drilled into us up here). It's not in the same league as something like Cooke's or Janssen's headhunting.Just wait until ND games get moved over... I'm sure those numbers will skyrocket to idk.... 0.8.Barry Melrose is doing his best to keep up hockey's reputation.

Not 100% on the true rule, but short version, yes.

I think they are even more likely to disallow one off the hand though. While you can redirect a puck with your skate, as long as you don't kick, if you intentionally reach out for the puch, chances are it would be overturned.

A puck bouncing off a guy's glove in front would be treated same as any of deflection, good goal. A puck off a glove where he waves at it, probably getting called back.

DOLA

Three observations from the Pens-Devils

1) Devils really should wear the red white and green more

2) Pens jump out to 1-0 lead...only to turnover the puck twice to give up goals on breakaways.

3) I get it's the thing to do, boo Crosby when he touches the puck. At MSG, fine. Wachovia, fine. But when 30% of the seats are empty in the building, it doesn't have the same effect.

I can't even hear the booing. Awful.

My boyfriend Parise just made the score 4-1. LLLLLOOOOVVVEE IT!

Fixed

Also...Pens plan of attack after going up 1-0 should have been continually ice the puck. Devils couldn't generate any breakaways if the puck was already in Pittsburgh's zone.

LOL, good point.

Oh, and bite me. :)

Colin 'Toothbrush' White

I ain't using him like a toothbrush.

Maybe. But, again, comes down to - is it suspension worthy? If it's not, none of the rest applies.

If it is, then you issue the suspension, but also require an impartial medical opinion on the affected player. If that opinion requires the affected player to miss time, so does the offender - and THEN the suspension starts.

If the other team refuses third-party medical access to their player, then the suspension is served normally, no extra time added.

But like I say - all of that assumes that the league considers the action in question to be worthy of a suspension.

I will just go ahead and state that the length of time a player is injured for should have little or no bearing on how long the offender is suspended. If someone smashes his stick over my head and I miss 1 game or 100 games, he should basically get the same suspension (give or take a small margin). I don't remember ever telling criminals that they have to be in jail until the person they harmed is healed, so why should a hockey player?

I also like the idea that was floated around by Edzo that if you have a player suspended by a headshot his roster spot should not be filled so you have to play a man short. So instead of getting someone called up, you screw your team over for a few games by doing something stupid.

It will be interesting to see what happens tonight during Boston/Pitt. I have a feeling nothing major will happen. Someone fights Matt Cooke and that's the end of it. Too much attention and build up already.

Speaking of "happenings" that hit on Seabrook by Wizneiwski was something else. Wizneiwski takes a run from 40 feet away, leaves his feet, lifts his arms up to hit Seabrook in the head against the board and appears to knock him out. Hopefully, Seabrook will be fine, you just never know with concussions.

Corey Perry's hit on Sopel for the game winning goal was more entertaining than dirty.

I think Bettman and Campbell will be at the game in Boston so nothing will happen.

I know it's true, but I always find it funny when it gets mentioned that players will be on their best behavior because of the people in attendance. It's like it's the 17th century and there's no other means for word to spread.

I can't justify the hit by Wiz. Very dirty and he should get at least three games. How the hell that is a 2 minute penalty... unreal.

Sopel took a pathetic dive and while usually the refs would even the penalties up, I'm glad they didn't and it cost the Hawks the game. Maybe next time he'll play the game the right way.

I completely agree.

I completely agree.

Now how about you two become Devils fans?

If a hit is obviously illegal why don't we just get Arnie to throw the offender out of the building?

It's 8 games for Wiz.

Man...The NHL needs to fix this problem. The Tampa-Sabres game is rather interesting.

Get rid of the fuckin' Instigator penalty. ALLOW the players to stand up for their teammates.

I figure Wiz gets 4 games for the hit and 4 games for the Matt Cooke hit. Sounds about right in Bettman's world. And while I'm not in a million years trying to condone what he did and he's an idiot... it's very interesting that if the refs call the Seabrook hit to the head on Perry like they should, none of this happens.

I see Thornton got a 10 minute misconduct after fighting Cooke. Did he go nuts or something? Or was it just the obligatory 10 minute misconduct for daring to lay a hand on somebody in the presence of tv cameras and the glorious commissioner?

Go Leafs!

Eh Pumpy?

Yeah, what bbor said...GO LEAFS!!!

help

???

These are pretty funny

From Edmonton and Toronto, comparisons of water usage from Feb 27 and Feb 28 (gold medal game) at the same times of day.

Red Wings tied the Oilers with .2 seconds left in the game. I feel bad for the Oil at this point. I hope they get Hall to make up for this year.

Edmonton wins the shootout but we got a huge point so I am not mad at all. Talk about stealing a point.

While getting the point is nice, Edmonton had lost 5 straight going into last night's game, their starting goalie had never won an NHL game, was something like 0-8 going into last night with a GAA over 4.00, and the Wings were coming off 3 days rest.

Their start to the game was inexcusable. There is no reason the Wings shouldn't have won that game.

And the Oilers have beat the Wings all 3 times they have faced off this season.

Detriot maybe the only team that hasn't had a win over the Oilers this season. :D (at least for teams that have played 2 or more games against us)

Zetterberg just scored in OT with 0.3 seconds left.

Back to back nights .. get the fuck out.

Seems to be a recurring theme today. Carolina beat the Pens today when recently-called-up rookie Jamie McBain hammered a shot past MAF from beyond the dots with 0.9 on the clock in OT.

Arrgh. Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. :D

Carolina's back to six down, but now only have 11 games to make that up. Based on tiebreakers, they actually leaped past three teams with today's win and are now 11th which is the highest they've been in the standings since sometime in October before the 14 game losing streak did them in.

They're also now getting past the really brutal part of the schedule (two games against Pittsburgh and Washington and a game against Phoenix in the last two weeks) as they have to play tomorrow at home against Buffalo, but then they get a run of games with Tampa and Atlanta over the next bit mixed with a final meeting with Washington. Still, the margin to stay in the chase is pretty much nil at this point. The Canes probably need to finish 9-2-0 (86 points) to even merit a chance depending on other teams continuing to fall down around them.

I'm so torn. I dearly love the fact that they've played their hearts out over the past two months, but I'm increasingly sure this is now going to be a heroic effort to finish 9th, which would be the worst of worlds because we don't get into the playoffs while robbing ourselves of a high draft pick at the same time.

I was at the game...the number of people standing in the building already, ready to run to the bathroom during the 2 min commercial break before OT, was comical.

On the post game, Crosby said the shot hit his glove, causing it to dip...but that is probably just Crosby trying to get his name involved. :p

I think Carolina and Atlanta are playing some of the best hockey of that cluster at the bottom, but I think the hole is just too deep. Plus, without Ward, would they stand any chance vs the Caps round 1?

When I looked at replays of McBain's shot, I think it actually might have been tipped by a Carolina player on the way in (I think Bryan Rodney). From what I've seen, he did manage to at least wave his stick at the puck as it came past him and it seems like the direction changes slightly afterward. He certainly seemed to react briefly like he clipped it a bit, but maybe he wasn't sure, either, because he didn't continue to act like it and instead joined in the celebration around McBain.


I don't know. We didn't have Ward for the past two meetings each with Washington and Pittsburgh and we won 3 of four from both teams and the other was an OT loss to the Caps, thus the continued discussion of Carolina as a faint playoff contender. The playoffs are a whole other critter, though, especially as I think Washington and Pittsburgh would probably "care" more, if you will.

Regardless, it's moot if Boston (or Atlanta, or the Rangers, etc) continue to find ways to win as Boston did today. While we can certainly influence Atlanta's chances in the next week with a back-to-back set, we don't play the Rangers again and we only have one more with Boston in our last game of the season when things may be moot. We took matters out of our own hands a long time ago. I still want to believe, though. (And after that disastrous suckfest by NC State in the NIT against UAB, it's all I've got left to root for before the long summer break--well, there's the Bobcats, but my level of caring about them is miniscule compared to the Hurricanes.)

Philly literally has no goaltender now...I mean we say that every season, but it's true now.

So, that gives Carolina a little more hope for the teams ahead of them.

Selanne gets goal #600 at home vs the Avs. Ducks are now playing great with (almost) nothing on the line... if only they hadn't choked the two games after the Olympics away

Sharks are in playoff form.

Okay, I think it's over now. Bad, bad 5-3 loss to Buffalo that wasn't as close as the score indicated. First game that Peters has looked out-and-out horrible since he got called up (got yanked for an injured Manny Legace, to put it in some perspective) and probably the worst time to do it with Boston winning today, which means the deficit is eight with ten to go and I think there isn't a 9-1 stretch left in this team to merit any hope to make it now. (I said that after they bombed out against Boston last week, but I mean it this time...I think.)

Meanwhile, Atlanta's apparent attempt at crashing their playoff hopes into the ground has failed as they've rallied for four wins in a row after losing the previous six, completing a back-to-back sweep of Philadelphia and somehow find themselves a point behind Boston for the last spot.

They aren't this bad in the playoffs. Maybe if they enter the playoffs as a 4 or a 5 they will actually have some motivation once they get there.

Honestly, the goalie is the least of Philly's problems. The team is unmotivated and lacks any sense of urgency. They are going to be an easy out for some team in the first round...if they make it.

Never underestimate the power of Don Waddell.

Take out the part about the goaltender and these sentences describe the Boston Bruins perfectly.

I can't wait for the Bruins to get rid of Dennis Wideman this offseason.

Now...No Carter!

Broken foot, out 3-4 weeks.

Flyers are doing it all wrong, you don't trade your 1st round pick and then tank. Take a lesson from your friends on the other side of the state.

Dola

I was one of the people who was ready to hand Ryan Miller the Vezina and some Hart votes a few weeks ago. Now...is Ilya Bryzgalov the guy, on the FIRST PLACE Phoenix Coyotes? FIRST FUCKING PLACE. Unreal.


And, NHL Network free preview all this week thru Saturday.

Crosby doesn't like Zetterberg.

Off The Record : March 18

Claude Lemeuix and Darren McCarty sit down together and discuss all things related to their feud. It's three videos so once the first ends the next automatically loads.

Crazy seeing them all buddy buddy.

That's true. I guess I should have clarified and said "this time around" or something like that. :D

Seriously, do hope the Thrashers get in if we don't. Gotta have another "non-traditional" market team to get behind (besides, apparently, the Yotes, Kings, and maybe the Sharks) when the playoffs roll around. I suppose I could lend support to the Caps, but that'd have to be a last resort against someone like Pittsburgh or Detroit or something and only because Carolina traded Scott Walker and Joe Corvo to Washington. It'd be nice for them to get a ring, especially Walker.

Oh, and it'd also have the added bonus of having Waddell likely keep his job, which would keep Atlanta from ascending much higher in the Southeast than they already are. ;) :D

IMO Dream offseason would be to get rid of Wideman, Ryder, and Timmy. Timmy, to a lesser extent, but that contract is not going to look pretty sitting behind Rask the next few years. Not sure if you can get him to waive his NTC anyways, but Chiarelli better try.

Would love to retain Seidenberg as well...he's made me completely forget about Morris, a guy I thought I'd love coming into the season.

Curious to see what Flyers fans thought of yesterday's game. The highlights made it seem like they were robbed.

I couldn't really tell if it was a goal or not. The one angle looked as if it was in, I thought i saw white but I couldn't be 100% certain. So I understand why it was called a no goal.

I missed this earlier, but the movie "Flushed Away" is built around this whole premise, although it's England in the World Cup.

Went to the Habs-Sabres game last night (club seats no less). The first 57 minutes and the Sabres sucked. Sloppy, selfish, and no energy at all from Buffalo. Then in the last two minutes, they scored 2 goals to make it 2-2 and won it in the shootout.

If Buffalo can beat Ottawa on Friday, it should pretty much lock up the division title.

Just a note about how bad the viewership for the NHL on Versus actually is.

A story today mentions how Monday's Penguins-Wings matchup set a new all-time high for audience for NHL on Versus with a 0.7 HH rating and 622,000 total viewers. That's the most watched regular season game on any cable network since 2004.

By comparison, this week's episode of TNA Impact had 1.2 million viewers.

PPG reporting Pens - Caps as 2011 Winter Classic at Heinz Field

Sort of torn. This just opens up more criticism for the tin-foil wearing crew that believe the Pens get anything they want. And would be nice to see different teams have an opportunity before repeating teams.

But, there are also a limited number of places that you can realistically play the game, and this is the NHL's showcase rivalry in the US anyway.

Plus, as a season ticket holder...I am biased

Winter Classic likely at Heinz Field

It's NBC Sports. They go by the old 1783 map that shows that the US ends at the Mississippi river.

I'm definitely going to have to steal that line. Consider this your copyright notice ;)

SI

Thank you NJ Devils for being the fat chick the Flyers used as a slump buster! I am now rooting for the Devils to win out and get the 2nd seeds and the Flyers get the #7 seed :)

Why do you say things that you know will hurt me?

I wasn't calling you fat Pumpy!

I love VS. The announcer kept calling Tim Kennedy "Tyler Kennedy" until he realized it in the 3rd period in tonight's game.

You have to excuse the announcers, they are so use to having the Pens shoved down their throats by Gary Bettman that they sometimes think they are calling their games when they actually aren't since TYLER Kennedy plays for the Pittsburgh Bettmans...errr Penguins.

It is a tough face to forget




In other news, Gary Bettman and the NHL handed the Penguins $14M to pay Kris Letang over the next 4 years, I am guessing under the table so it doesn't count again the cap, cause that is how the Pens get treated.