I generally never agree with GE about anything, but I agree that B is definitly more likely

I don't understand why all of you think that the wolves didn't just kill the bodyguard the night most likely able to get the kill in?

That seems like the most likely scenario when considering the KISS principle.

C) GE is retarted also!

D) the wolves dont know shit about lathum, and the just figured they had a better chance of hittting DT last night!


you people really need my help :D

so much for silence :(

I really want to go after Pass tonight... not only did he put his vote on DT less than 5 minutes to deadline when it was obvious DT was done, but he has obviously been on people's radars since the game began. He just isn't acting right.

I just am afraid I am not going to get a good run on him... but I dont have a feel for saldana at all. And I really dont think Ollie is a wolf...

vote telle

I KNOW I am not a wolf, and i believe Hoops would pick a female... so Telle it is!

I voted for Lathum Day 1.

so our wolves are LSG GE SAldana and ....... and somewhere there is a sorcerer too.

vote Chief Rum

Place holder vote. No real reason, just wanted to shake things up a bit to see what falls out.



I don't see the run on Telle, it looks too muc like the run on BK and we see where that got us. Who is leading this charge? More of the same names from DT and BK?

now i feel better

dola: looking at this again shows that oliegirl is in the run on Telle which puts her in the middle of the runs on BK, DT and now Telle. We know how the first two turned out...

Sorry for the quick vote change, I should have researched a bit more before making the CR vote.


unvote Chief Rum

vote oliegirl

okay so you voted for somebody who said he was a seer. that definitely clears you.

That is the funniest post you have ever had ;)

i keep wanting to edit renders name into it, but it just doesnt work

I R Rend... Rende.....

Rawr!

That made me giggle

Looking at the Day 1 votes on Lathum.. we have a number of cleared/dead villagers in there. There's gotta be at least one wolf amongst the rest.

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

thats it...thats your answer...you call me out as being wolfish, but then do the same thing and it is ok...of course i didnt know Barkeep was the spy, but i at least made a vote that wasnt meaningless.

I think we found Lathum and Saldana, now which is which? :)

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

Something doesn't settle with me - and I will be around to possibly this tomorrow.

how is that a retarded question...why was it bad for me but good enough for him

and sndvls, i have no role, i am as vanilla as they come, i just dont like dying early, and under a normal ruleset, i have no means of self preservation...this game is alot different in that respect.

becasue he is the duke, unless there is some crazy wolf role we dont knwo about!

You have played long enough to know as well as I do that it is alot different for someone who is cleared to put their vote somewhere versus someone who is not cleared to put their vote somewhere. I highly doubt that people will be looking through my votes here to figure out if I am good or bad, whereas we possibly will with yours or Goldeneagle who also threatened to do the same thing by throwing a vote on me.

GL villagers!!

Post 749 is where I say that I thought we were villager/villager that day. IIRC, that's the post that made you jump on me as if I said I *knew* we were villager/villager. Anyway, my stated intent then was to save both Lathum and DT.

okay so what is your reason for voting for him now? You said you THOUGHT he was a villager... why are you voting for a villager?

I just directed you to the posts! Like I said then, my hope was for a tie and no lynch.

okay, I dont know if this made any sense. I am really tired.

and...???

its not like i voted for him.

just because he demonstrated the duke role yesterday doesnt mean he shouldnt have to act in the best interests of the village...what's good for the goose....

i have also played long enough to know that there is such a thing as a wolf duke...granted, i doubt that is likely since no one countered your claim, but i really disagree that just because you are a known factor means your votes arent the same value as anyone elses...and at this particular moment, i would say barkeep would agree.

dola, if you had been on someone that anyone other than yourself wanted to lynch, it is likely some people would have followed you, since you are the center of the COT...you should be leading the vote, not being a throwaway

Considering Saldana didn't even vote to save BK either.. and he's trying to throw suspicion my way, I think he should be taken care of soon. At this point I don't think I'll be able to take anything he says for face value without assuming he has some wolf motive behind it.

Well then.. hopefully as the center of the COT I will be a bit more persuasive today in getting people to follow me to vote you than i was yesterday.

whatever alan, you are going to keep pushing it until you lynch me, fine, i am a villager, plain and simple, waste another day...you for some reason think you dont have the same responsibilities as the rest of the village, whereas I think at this point, you should have more....i hardly think asking you to explain your lack of action is casting suspicion, since that would so obviously be a waste of time...we know who you are, i just want to know why you did nothing helpful today.

as far as my vote goes, when i voted, it was hardly a done deal for BK, and I put my vote where it moved Chief Rum to within 2 votes of the lead...perhaps if you hadnt thrown yours away on my, you could have made it one

maybe you would be more successful if there were actually any reason to other than your long standing paranoia and obsession over me.

I don't really believe you at all :)

i wont say you arent annoying me a little bit with this whole bit, but i would likely be riding you just as hard if you hadnt proven yourself yesterday.

Heck, maybe I am completely wrong.. but right now I feel the following is likely the case:

Lathum is the cultist.
Saldana is the cunning wolf
Telle is another wolf

But what do I know, I'm pretty bad at this game!

i dont think there is one here.... there have been no hints of special rolls!

I'll be more than happy to say after the game what I was trying to do with my vote today at the end, but couldn't because the situation didn't arise. I'm not going to dignify your attacks with an answer right now because I don't trust you and giving you the idea would actually ruin any attempt that I have to try to do it later.

Plus I think you're just trying to stir it up to the point where everyone thinks it is just personal between you and me and they leave you alone just like I used to do with Blade back when he would come after me when I was a wolf. I have no desire to give you the opportunity to do that either.

i never said that, and you know it the only reason i keep fighting with you is because I dont want another wasted day.

i have a really busy morning at work tomorrow, and its time to put my girls to bed, so i am going to vote now...

vote passacaglia

he is a lot different than i have ever seen him before in this game, so its just a hunch for me at this point.

so you think you have 3 of the wolf roles nailed?

who are you JEHeinze?

I agrre with him on one :)

Not as busy around here as I expected. Going to be logging off now (feel free to call me UTR ;) ) as it's almost 11 and my Comcast has begung to die out every night after 11. Slowly we lose channels on th eTV and eventually all internet and TV is gone. They say it's not happening but I found out that my neighbor is having the exact same thing happening as well over the last 5 days. Comcast sucks!!! Can I vote for them for the lynch tomorrow?

Not sure how much I'll be around tomorrow. The 3 o'clock deadline kind of sucks for me but I'll try to get one some at work tomorrow if possible.

If you want to vote for Pass, then vote for Pass. It gives another candidate instead of just adding to the run on telle.

Just got home and playing catch up :)

I "lynched" Comcast about 1 1/2 months ago. I only miss them when I have to do large (100+ MB) downloads at home.

1 minute before deadline??

regarding an explanation:

Go for it champ.

The first day you seemed MUCH quieter than normal and kept your vote on a 3rd party candidate until right before deadline.

The second day you were back to your normal (from what I've seen) persistent questioning villager self, but it really went from one extreme to the other between the two days.

RCN in da house -- plus I get the Big Ten Network, which comcast doesn't give you.

I didn't have much of a dog in the fight, but felt like I should get something going at the end. When looking at the votes, I didn't like BK's vote for Lathum.

I'd actually rather him not explain his vote there.

I also think if people are still not going to follow my vote on Saldana, the next best vote would be for Telle as it would help seperate alot of perceived alliances that currently are showing up as well as help give a data point for Lathum.

As for why the switch came so late, I wanted to see if anyone would try to save him at the end. If I had waited to vote for EF until after GE voted CR, I would have voted CR instead to make it a closer race, but probably still switched to BK.

Sorry.

I think this is right:
Danny (1) - Lathum (1256)
Telle (4) - Passacaglia (1268), GoldenEagle (1273), oliegirl (1274), LoneStarGirl (1305)
Saldana (2) - Alan T (1281), claphamsa (1291)
Oliegirl (2) - Danny (1282), EagleFan (1311)
Passacaglia (2) - Telle (1316), saldana (1340)
LoneStarGirl (1) - PackerFanatic (1319)

I've got generic 'wolfdar' feelings about both saldana and telle, but nothing tooo strong.

Can you recount your argument against saldana one more time please?

Restating the argument against Telle is for someone else to do I suppose...

I have pretty big issues with how Lathum and Saldana interacted in day 1 which I recapped early this morning in some of my posts that I went over various comments I had. The biggest problems had to do with inconsistencies with how they played off of each other during the day. Then it has slowly been a list of various actions since that time that just helped enhance the wolf feelings I am getting from Saldana. This on top of my day 1 comment that I felt Saldana was a very possible choice for Hoops to have made for a cunning wolf. While everyone else came up with other possibilities when trying to get into Hoops' mind, Saldana seems to me to be the most likely choice.

That said, while I have my vote on Saldana currently I do concede that we might learn the most from a lynch of Telle today however, which is why I said earlier that I can understand that vote. A Telle lynch could possibly tell us more about Lathum, Goldeneagle, Passacaglia and possibly others.

People are really missing this point with regards to how Telle voted. The wolves couldn;t have known anything at that stage. as the lynch and kill were simultaneous.


I'm having a huge problem with the "hemust have chosen one girl" crap hopps isn't a moron, he would not have done anything we think would be obvious. If you REALLY want to push for Pass then please do so. I am.


I'm inclined to agree that Olie deserves a real good look at this point. I'm getting tingly sensations and its not just because she's a hottie.


:+1:


I'm all but certain you're wrong on at least two of those.


I read this and go WTF??? you're blatantly asking that someone under a lot of suspicion NOT explain why they did something? Alan thats just ludicrous.


I was on Lathum pretty hard Day 1, at this stage I'm giving him a pass because even if he is the fake seer he's still a villager. If he's fooling us then I'll bow down and kiss his grimy paws after the game.

The entire argument on Telle is wrong, it doesn't stand up to ANY real logic. The wolves couldn;t have known anything at the point Pass is pushing on Telle so we can't deduce anything from that, Pass is also doing the exat same thing Telle did and saying she must be a wolf for doing so. its utter crap. Smoke and Mirrors.

I've got nothing on Saldana at this point. I think Hoops would have taken one or the other of he and Lathum and at this point that points me at Sal as a possible wolf more than lathum.

So my choice is between Saldana and Passacaglia tonight and based on the style of play thus far and the unsupported push on Telle, I have to:

VOTE PASSACAGLIA

I can't believe how poorly this is going, we lost our Spy and our BG in one night?
We need to put our Seers to work and try to figure out how we can take advatage of both roles. Maybe if we're lucky the fake seer only scans opposite. Can we somehow synchronize the scans?

The votes for Telle, or at least the explanations for them, seem full of holes. Maybe the wolves didn't kill Lathum, not because he's the fake seer, but because he has enough heat on him as it is. Why remove a good distraction?
Saldana on the other hand seems unsure of who's side he's on. The vote for Alan was only self preservation, Cultist perhaps?

VOTE SALDANA

I don't recall if you said that or not. If you say you did, I believe you. I didn't research it, just gave an impression. But my impression ran from what I believed to be a number of posts suggesting this rule limitation, not just one person such as yourself.

I was just saying that, if perhaps people had gotten the wrong idea, wouldn't the wolves want to encourage that idea? And thinking it was a general impression that might have been fostered by a few individuals, not just you. Really, I think I only recall you in that discussion until you started to question if we were reading that wrong. That's not a bad thing for you, but a good thing (as you would be the person to challenge that false impression).

Well, at least we're not crazy. Probably not some evil wolf mastermind plan then. ;)

No my math was right. I just interpreted "roled player" differently than you. I thought you meant "roled player" as in "any player with a role", not as I think you now mean, "these two specific roles (seer/BG)". With my definition, as you know, there are far more roled players than non-roled players (including wolves).

Heh...Pass got it.

As of post 1362

4 Telle: Passacaglia (1268), GoldenEagle (1273), Oliegirl (1274), LoneStarGirl (1305)
3 Saldana: Alan T (1281), Claphamsa (1291), Mrs. Schmidty (1358)
3 Passacaglia: Telle (1316), Saldana (1340), RendeR (1356)
2 Oliegirl: Danny (1282) EagleFan (1311)
1 LoneStarGirl: PackerFanatic (1319)
1 Danny: Lathum (1256),

LSG: Thinks voting 12+ hours B4 deadline is "late"
PackerFanatic: CR is bothering me.
Render: Spidey sense

lol...at least give me something to respond to. I feel like I am being gang-tackled here by shadows.

Ahh, yes, the knowing looks across the table. Those awkward pauses.

Yeah, that would be pretty funny. :D

Not yet voted:
McCollins
Chief Rum
SnDvls
Schmidty

Am I the only one thinking KWhit made a huge reach with that theory and made too big a deal out of it?

Sorry, I just don't see both Poli and hoops leaving a strong player like Lathum out there to the last pick. There is a logical sense to it, yes. But that completely ignores that both Poli and hoops know how much value Lathum can bring to a game and that they would have to resist the emotional pull to pick him for 20 picks.

Frankly, the theory of Poli using Lathum's rep as a way to kill off the fake seer has a lot more logical traction with me than KWhit's theory.

EF threw out a similar sort of ratio in a different context, but the math remains the same. Grab any six players--the chance of there NOT being a wolf in the group is less than 1 in 5.

And besides, it is a losing strategy to gun after six particular players and risk going five nights without a wolf kill while the wolves are out there killing every night.

All that said, I think there is value in trying to guess hoops' intent, and would agree with the group of six suggested as his likely targets (and with picks 7-9 as well).

The big issue I have is this: hoops knows we know this. He knows we'll think this and try to reconstruct his draft. And he's exactly the sorta guy to throw curveballs at us for just that reason.

In fact, I am wondering if he put together a draft list, and then just chose in reverse.

Actually, yeah, DT's a good choice, too. Frankly, we have a very strong field for this game. Even the newer players we have seem to me to have "gotten it" pretty quick and are playing well.

Okay, really, I am posting as I progress. I wasn't trying to be repetitive.

I am encouraged by this line of thinking on Telle. There seems to be some logicial inconsistency to her votes, although I can't say without looking closer that she's the only one, considering we had lots of Lathum voters yesterday and seem to have a fair amount of BK voters today.

Of course, this is still pre-deadline, so I assume much has changed.

That also gave him a reasonable excuse to avoid being part of the lynch, like an "excused" throwaway vote (re: sal's vote on alan t).

Yup, and one other aspect of it is that if it suggests he has a major role, that probably piques the wolves' interest, too. After all, the vote trigger only stops most of them. There is a wolf out there that is unstoppable, so not an especially strong plan, perhaps.

I would ask you for a reason, but no one else gave one, why you should you?

Interesting that Telle and Pass are the only Day 1 Lathum voters to go against their votes there by voting BK on Day 2, and then going at loggerheads with each other over it.

I would suggest the possibility that two wolves might be playing each other up to get one in the COT, but A) I don't believe it; and B) the last time I suggested a far reaching wolf conspiracy, Pass lit up at me.

Hmm...not bad.

My main quibble, though, is they would have guessed DT was indeed the BG, since they knew he wasn't the wolf, and they are more likely to go after the sure BG than the not sure seer, I think.

Other than that, it's not altogether out of the question.

See, here's the problem I have with this line of questioning. It's not that you're wrong, or that Alan didn't perhaps make a questionable move there. It's that he is, no matter what, almost essentially cleared, and I only say almost because in a metaphysical sense, no one is cleared until they're dead or the game is over.

So I ask you, what's the point in pursuing thing line? I don't see how it brings us closer to finding a wolf.

This seems like backtracking. Like I said to sal, Alan, I don't see you as anything but what you say you are, but doing things like throwing away your vote and backtracking on Lathum inside of a page of posts can only confuse us and help the wolves.

Not trying to discourage you from your active posting ways, but just letting you know there is the possibility you could unintentionally throw us off with stream of consciousness posting, given your current role as the sole member of the COT.

lmao...I think I'll just accept it now. Clearly I should change my screen name to Default Fallback Vote.

Well, at least you switched. And you make sense here, too, assuming Telle is a villager.

I am not ready to make that assumption, though.

QUESTION FOR CRONIN

Are there any roles in this game that are not listed in the rule set?

Still not getting Lathum there.

I can buy the other two, though.

All right, finally caught up. Took me 20 minutes just to read through my own posts at the end (j/k...).

I am WAY past my bed time, and I have to vote. I have a lot of questions out there for saldana, but I'm getting more of a "I don't get why he's doing this vibe", than a wolf vibe. It's sorta like with Lathum on Day One. Didn't understand why he made the decision he did, but thought he was telling the truth (and I still do). I think saldana would be an excellent choice to scan, though.

That puts it to Pass and Telle. I suggested the possibility of a two-wolf set up, but I actually think that's pretty unlikely. It's far more likely they are on opposite sides, so I figure pick one and see what comes up. Pass's vote timing on Day One makes more sense to me, but that is countered by his decision to essentially ensure BK's death. But I think BK was already a likely goner, and it's personally hard for me to ignore that Pass did not choose to vote me. In my mind, he has made some questionable moves, but they are more in a "Alan locking in" way (an old villager Alan trait) then a wolf way.

So I am going to go the other way. See this less as a vote for Telle and more a vote against voting for Pass.

VOTE TELLE

really, the only reasoning i had was that i didnt like the vote for barkeep and you are one person that I can never figure out, so out of the candidates at the time, you were the logical choice for me.

It looks like we got this all settled, but for the record, as a wolf, I don't think I would encourage villagers to misinterpret rules. Maybe it's because when I am the GM, my games are pretty confusing, and the rules keep changing on us -- we never play the same game more than once in a row -- but I wouldn't want to win a game based on a misinterpretation of the rules. I can see it if clarifying the rule would out me as a wolf, but otherwise no.

FTR, Lathum's scan of Telle hasn't factored into my vote for her at all. I've already gone over how what I've done was different from Telle. If you want, I'll go over it again.

heh I don't remember that! Go ahead and suspect it if you like...just vote Telle first! :cool:

i hate Comcast, but RCN is too spoty on their internet...

Yes Sir!

unvote Telle

vote pass

What more can I say to try and convince people of my villager role?

Day 1 I did not believe Lathum. Obviously a lot of other people fell into that category as well since he had a number of votes on him. After Alan's no-lynch move I took time to reflect and realized it might be smarter to back off of Lathum for a bit and see how things pan out.

Day 2 I voted for Barkeep because he seemed unusually quiet to me. Obviously quite a few others got the wolfy-vibe from him as well as we ended up lynching him, with great misfortune.

Today I'm voting for Pass because he's been on my ass for two days now and I'm taking that as a sign of a wolf that's trying to stir things up. Also I think it's likely that there's at least one wolf amongst the Day 1 votes for Lathum and he's in that list.

Votes as of post 1390:

4 - Telle - Passacaglia (1268), GoldenEagle (1273), oliegirl (1274), Chief Rum (1383)
4 - Passacaglia - Telle (1316), saldana (1340), RendeR (1356), LoneStarGirl (1389)
3 - saldana - Alan T (1281), claphasma (1291), Mrs. Schmidyt (1358)
1 - Danny - Lathum (1256)
1 - oliegirl - EagleFan (1311)
1 - LoneStarGirl - PackerFanatic (1319)

With it all tied up, I will move my vote to Telle to break the tie if need be. Of the three top vote choices, I'm ok with Telle or Saldana being lynched today. I'd rather keep Passacaglia around for another day at least.

Any particular reason why you feel better about Passacaglia?

Not too much, it just is more of my gut feeling that no one in the game seems to like too much right now :) That and I previously had mentioned I think finding out if you are good or bad can help tell a few things about a handful of other players at least to my warped brain.

Ok, so when I come out good, what's that going to tell you? And I mean this seriously. Do you see others as more good or more bad correlated with me being good? I'd like to know your theories.. maybe my vote is better put elsewhere.

Well if you come back as good the biggest thing for me is that it obviously means that some of my theories I'm working in my head are off. I likely would have to step back and reevaluate a few people as well.. It also wouldn't look as good on Passacaglia either in my mind.

Is there a possibility that the fake seer could be given real information sometimes and fake other times? I haven't ever played with this role, and I know we don't know for sure what the fake seer gets for info - but is that a possibility?

Well I am going to come back as good, so start thinking from there. Where does that lead you?

I'm obviously not liking Pass too much but I'm having trouble discerning whether or not it's because his pushiness is wolfy or because I'm taking it personally.

That is one of the possibilities that I outlined earlier in the game regarding how the fake seer might get their info. There has to be some mechanism to determine when they get correct vs incorrect info. In most games that has been using random.. Cronin already said Random is not involved in this game at all, so that is out. The only way I could see this in our current game would be a pre-defined setup of even vs odd days or something.. But I find that less likely than what is also considered a normal fake seer role of just reporting back everyone as all good.

Just noticed this - happy birthday GE :)