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Sorry for not naming you. :) Between closing on the condo, huge meetings at work, packing, and OOTP testing, I'm even more scatter brained than usual. :) |
Too bad velocity is still not considered. It should have an effect on stealing bases along with the pitcher's ability to hold runners on.
Weather should be there too. Silly. |
Thanks Troy, i'm glad to hear about the stats, hopefully it's confirmed. I'd like to be able to look back many years, possibly even select a year, but i'll take last year and 2 years ago as a start. It will at least get me playing again. Looking back 5-10 year won't be a game breaker.
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... oops, browser messed up and posted twice
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Excellent!! I would also like to see mph mean something in ootp. Seeing closers in 6.5 who top out at 89 mph just.. just... well, reminds me of Izzy and all. Is there a chance Markus can make that rating mean something? |
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What's wrong with closers that top out at 89? Seems like that describes a handful of successful guys (like Hoffman and fomerly Foulke)... |
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Yeah.. I can see a few who do.. and Izzy has been effective. |
For those that have found a way to go ahead and play this game (I FM'ed myself out last week, so I'm back), what is the difference between a catcher's position rating at catcher and their catching ability rating?
I think I saw this one on the fix list, but how in the world did this game get past beta and v1.00 without keeping positional filters in tact on the roster pages? Still amazed at how unpolished things are. |
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That's in patch 1.02 - which, for some reason, is not available yet.
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Is there an MLB roster file anywhere yet?
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Yeah, that's what I figured. I'm just a little less than patient :) |
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I know they were working on a massive project for MLB with all real rookies for all levels. Think it was Cubby and somebody. Check the mods forum or something like that. Edit: Here's the MLB quickstart thread http://ootpdevelopments.com/board/sh...d.php?t=123258 Here's the Cubby/Rolen roster thread http://ootpdevelopments.com/board/sh...d.php?t=121849 There are tons of logos, roster sets, facepacks, etc. |
Dola- Looks like the roster isn't out yet. The quickstart I believe is an imported 6.5 league with all the logos and everything in correct format (png instead of bmp). People are reporting some wacky stats though, and I'm not sure if it's complete with all minors.
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Actually customizable views and filters were in the release version. The next patch simply fixes the issue of the filters not sticking. |
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Uh.. yeah. Could someone that has an inside look into this? |
Patch 2 update
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Do you guys really think the AI will finally be fix after all these versions? I have doubts because Markus always says "Improve AI" on all his patches he release in the past. I really hope with SI this time the AI bugs finally gets fix. |
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Only time will tell if the "dream team" can push this game to the next level. I wonder if Olajuwon is on this team? |
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Playing through this build at the moment and running through a long term sim test. I nthe previous build, movement was down, but not down enough. I'm anxious to see how many improvements have been made with this patch. I'm focusing soley on the long term AI of the game. Simming through 30+ seasons at a time and trying to look for glitches and things that don't add up. There are some really good people testing this thing and we've had some terrific discussions on 40 man roster AI decisions, stats vs. ratings decisions, salary for different positions, etc. As of now, I'm leaving my opinions of what I think and don't think can be fixed at the door. You won't be hearing a ton of negative feedback from me until the public release patch is out. I'm not under any NDA, but I don't feel it's fair to bash Markus or Marc or the game until the testing is done and the final patch released. On the flip side, I'm not going to run around screaming "THE GAME IS GREAT, BUY IT NOW" either. I'll give some thoughts on certain builds, both positive and negative however. I'll post some initial thoughts on this build tomorrow. |
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I would guess one is simply a rating of familiarity with the position, while the other is a rating of actual ability at the position. Kind of like how you can have a guy with 20 fielding at shortstop, but range of, say, 10. He's not a real athletic shortstop, but he doesn't make a lot of mistakes with the glove. A 20/10 catcher for catcher rating and catcher ability rating would probably be a guy who can catch the ball, but doesn't necessarily have the footwork necessary to be successful at throwing runners out. He might have a great arm, say, but be only average at getting out of the crouch and getting the ball down to 2nd/3rd. |
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You mean you're leaving the opinions for us at the door, right? You're sharing your opinions with the testing team, correct? |
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Of course. |
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Can't wait to hear how the game is progressing... or regressing. :p |
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Troy, I'm assuming from your post that you were added to the 'Dream Team' beta group. If so, that's a very, very good thing. Either way, would you be willing to post your examples of bad waiver/transaction AI in this thread. I know it may seem redundant considering you have a direct line to Markus, but IMO we need as many "important" posts in that thread as possible, otherwise it will likely be filled with people's personal pet peeves. |
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I have been added to the "dream team" beta group. I'll be more than happy to add anything tonight. I simmed through one 45 season test last night and started another long run today. I'll compare the two and see what happens. Early, early, early thoughts on the first test (I had about ten minutes to go through things this morning, not a lot of time): 1) Less movement from the AI, but still a bit much. They are still tweaking their 40 man rosters more frequently than I'd like. I may test a run tonight without 40 man rosters and see how the AI reacts. 2) Looking through the hall of famers, there were a lot more hitters than pitchers in it. I have no idea what the reasons are at this point or if anything is wrong there. 3) There was a dominant hitter in the sim test. The guy had like 15 all star appearences, 6 MVP's, hit 800 HR and had 3300+ hits. He was a 1B. 4) When looking through the hall of fame pitchers I found something pretty cool: The guy ended up winning something like 258 games or so. Around age 31 or 32 he was traded when he was at his peak in performence. I rolled my eyes and went "good lord, what the hell". Then I looked at the trade. He was shipped for one of the top three hitters in the league and a prospect. The team he was traded to needed pitching badly and the team he was traded from needed hitting in the worst way. Very nicely done. 5) It seemed more HOF players played with only 1 or 2 teams throughout their careers and in looking at about 7 or 8 of them, none finished their career in the minors. |
What years were your sim run, and did you use the model historical stats option? I'm assuming fictional players.
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fictional players, I started from 2006 on, default settings
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Troy
Looking forward to your honest review with the AI for waivers, trades, releases, minor league promotions and demotions,etc |
Me too! I want you guys to be happy!
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No matter what you guys think of OOTP or Markus, I can promise you the quote above is true. I asked Marc what I could/couldn't say about the beta builds. He told me to fire away and say anything I wanted. That's stand up IMHO. It's MY decision not to be very critical until the final build is released. I don't think it's fair to be part of the process testing things and then slamming the game. Marc, Markus and SI have all been stand up to this point. |
I think Markus, Marc and SI are stand-up guys and will do their darndest to get the game up to snuff. However, I don't think everyone's going to be happy. Not because it won't eventually become a great game, but because there's always going to be someone somewhere who thinks the AI stinks because he can trade Mr. A for Mr. B. There will ALWAYS be someone...
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My brief thoughts on the beta patch. First off, Markus has been checking in pretty often and trying to address our concerns. I think part of the problem with some of the issues is that the player evaluation seems to be some secretive, hidden code. Compared to 6.5, where you could set percentages based on certain weights, it's apparently been incorporated in and can't be changed by the user. That is why the AI seems to make some wacky decisions, IMO.
As for the 40-man thing, it's getting better with each iteration. Initially, I couldn't even keep track of 1 day's worth of moves, but the AI still tends to put guys that don't even make the roster on the 40-man. And I'm not just talking about Rule 5ers. I'll have to look in more detail when I get home, but it appears to me that when the AI has a small need, say a SS, it claims every single SS it can find on the waiver wire, and then assigns some of them before deciding which one to use. The when it decides it didn't promote a guy and doesn't really need him, it waives him. It is getting better, but I think the way the computer handles the 40-man still needs work, and that will solve many of the hyper-active waivers and promotion/demotion stuff. |
I wonder if part of the problem might not be the delayed reaction with contract signings.
The computer is going apeshit over waiver claims because, well, if it hasn't got an alternative in the minors, it has no alternative. |
Markus speaks on the AI.
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He's not really speaking on the AI, he's asking people to e very specific about their AI complaints considering most people just whine about the terrible AI and don't provide any examples. He's replied a few times in that thread, but I'm not sure how he's going to fix what everyone is complaining about. I have a feeling most of this will be potential patch 3 material... |
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true Kinda odd he asking this late in the process and he didnt just look in the OOTPBB 2006: Technical Support Forum. They reported a lot there already about the AI. |
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Eh, it's sort of scattered in that forum between what are real problems and what's nitpicking. He's trying to consolidate it and is obviously feeling confident in the progress of patch 2 to try and either reach a little or tackle as many of these small issues (sac bunts, winning run scoring while fielders turn DP with 0 outs, etc). Who knows how much of it is actually possible... |
On the Beta Patch (and in general...)
I'm frustrated in general. Not so much at the fact that they're trying to get it right, but the fact that we're dealing with these issues at all. There are major flaws that we're still seeing in this game that mostly likely aren't going to go away. It's almost as if, when we fix one problem with a beta patch, that other problems that didn't exist before crop up. That to me, is really, really disappointing. Like I said, I have no issues with progress. But it seems to me that there is SO much crammed into this game and that they tried to do, that while it might give them a foundation for future editions of what might turn out to be a decent game (I'm reserving the whole "excellent" comment because I still think there are too many issues to be worked out), I am not convinced at this moment that it's going to even have the sort of long-term playability that previous versions have had for me. And for a person who LOVES the OOTP concept because of what it allows me to do and what sort of depth it gives to my dynasties and the range in which I can create and develop, this latest version comes up extremely short in its ability to satisfy -- especially from the perspective of a solo player. My hope is that, with all of the prodding and posting from those of us on this "dream team" will get the game to a point where it's stable and persistently playable. I'm not a nitpicker like some of the folks -- dream teamers excluded..they've been great -- who are complaining about every little sort of thing as if the game is going to make them feel as if they are Billy Beane or Brian Cashman sitting as a wheeler and dealer. But, I do think that this game -- even in spite of what it lacks -- in previous versions didn't frustrate me NEARLY to the degree that this version has. And the worst part is, it's almost as if when you bring something up there is this big surprise like "what? it doesn't work? well, gee..we didn't know that" and you feel like there would have been a ton of this sort of basic, rudimentary work that had been done before..and yet, it took a lot of people shelling out a lot of cash for a product they thought was finished, only to find out that now they had to get together and do some work pro bono to make it work the way it should've or how the people testing it originally should've done. The fact is, for people who really enjoy the game or frankly..want an extremely immersive baseball sim, there aren't a ton of options out there. More than before, sure, but..its not a huge field. This game had strengths and has seemingly sold them out for the possibility of getting better in the future. The gamble there is, the future might contain the usual cast of "fanboys", but the serious game who actually spends money on the game is less likely to shell out the cash, especially when buying text sims are impulse purchases to begin with. I mean, even if a console or boxed game is bad..I can usually justify the purchase. Not always the case with a text sim that might get purchased, downloaded and played briefly before its forgotten about on a massive hard drive for some other game. I have hope that it'll get better sooner than later, but that will remain to be seen. The fact that I've lost more universes in this iteration of the game, in not quite a month...than in any of the previous editions combined. As overwhelming as a game like EHM was when I purchased it late last year, I managed to delve in and the game engrossed me a lot...more than I'd expect a hockey game to. OOTP is built to be the sort of game with that same sort of replayability, immersiveness and just endless possibilities. But if the fundamentals aren't there, all we're doing is paying money to ask someone to eventually create a game that might be worthwhile to play. I have hope, but I'd like to have more than that...as we get further into this. We. shall. see. |
Dola --
Marc and all of them have been very responsive throughout the process and it's been a good experience and I'm glad I'm able to contribute. That post was more a culmination of my experience with the game from Day 1 to now, because I'd been holding back from a post like that until I felt like I had a handle on exactly what I'd thought. That said, I do hope things get better as we go on and have confidence that they'll do their best to at least try to make that happen and that's all you can ask from people. |
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I'm not frustrated with the process at all. That rant was weeks old and just never made its way out. |
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There are so many different opinions on things it's actually quite hard to get as handle on what is important which is why we're trying to get people into one thread and consolidate the core issues.
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Marc Duffy Update:
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I'm still shocked at how many features from previous versions of the game were left out. They really should have killed the OOTP name, and gave this SI edition a whole different name. Doesn't look like any of them are coming back with this build.
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And to add insult...........SI is now discounting the game on their own "all star special", real original.:rolleyes: Way to kick us loyal supporters in the balls after sticking with you. Discounting the fucking game 4 weeks after it came out.
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Err, nevermind. See it now. |
Hopefully you castigate Shaun for the same thing. After all, Puresim's dropped in price too. Damn them. Damn them all.
Oh, btw, I hope you don't get hit by any of the sarcasm flying around in my post. |
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oh no, according to the thread over at ootp, there's no relation. I'm about done with OOTP. |
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Yes damn those companies and their sales! I say they should raise the price! Raise the price to hell!
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My bet will be that they discount the game either 10% again, or 20%. Nothing like the 50% of Puresim. That being said, if Matrix doesn't do that with Puresim, does SI do it with OOTP?
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Marc Duffy update:
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dola
Was that taking a shot at Puresim by Marc? |
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I think you should swear off drinking Coke forever. That'll teach 'em. ;) |
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It was not a jab at anyone, I was reacting to a thread that seemingly had people putting 2 and 2 together and making 5.
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jbmagic update on a Marc Duffy update:
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I dont think jbmagic likes me :(
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Fritz
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Please stop causing problems. |
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I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.... |
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I like you. I respect what you done for SI. |
jbmagic update:
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heybrad update
Please stop causing problems |
just awesome
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And Dola...
That should have been an EaglesFan27 update. |
One of these days I'm going to use the "please stop causing problems" line, but I'm afraid to catch jbmagic's wrath.
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I'm sorry, strap me down and give me 40 lashings. |
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Brits are kinky? |
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Feature creep at this point is counterproductive. I'd love to have the features back, but I want the game to work right before we start adding more things. That was one of the problems in OOTP's past, was exuberance leading to new features when older stuff still didn't quite work right. Let's fix OOTP 2006, then we can move from a stable, working base to a game that incorporates the missing features we're all looking for. |
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Hey, it works for EA. :p |
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fixed |
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That analogy is a little off because you're comparing a one time product to a drink. Drinks go on sale all the time, but the kicker is the full priced version doesn't taste lousy. It tastes the same as the batch on sale. Would you be a little bothered if you bought a brand new computer as soon as it was released, but it was buggy as hell and you hardly use it for a few weeks. Then at the same time they released the fix for the computer, they put a sale on it. I agree with those who say it's a slap in the face to those who bought it early. It would be different if the game didn't have so many bugs in it, or the AI was better, etc. But it's not, the game is really tough to play right now, and this little sale just makes it more annoying. Live and learn I guess. I should have expected this, but I thought since this was his 7th (?) version of the game, and he was going to a company with more resources, the game wouldn't have been as bad as it was at release. I guess i'm going to have to treat OOTP like I would MS Windows from now on. Wait a few weeks/months till all the bugs are ironed out and the price drops then get a somewhat stable version of the copy. I'd be shocked if I was alone with that attitude after this price drop announcement so soon. |
heybrad rulez
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Truthfully, I barely remember OOTP 4. It was the first version of the game I played, and I couldn't even tell you what bothered me about it. I was on the beta team for OOTP 5, I think, but didn't get invited back for OOTP 6. That said, most of my OOTP play came via an OOTP 6/6.5 league over the last few years. |
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Couldn't agree more. Next year I think I won't rush out and slap my credit card against my computer within 1 week of release. I will force myself to wait a few weeks or months till OOTP 2007 is more bug free(and cheaper)! |
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Yea, the price isn't really the issue in the future, although it's a bonus to wait and get it cheaper. Right now however it's just a slight slap in the face because the product was so buggy at release. If anything, they should give those who bought it at full price a 10% refund. I'd assume future versions will be less buggy on release as long as they continue to improve this specific product opposed to re-writing it again though. I'm still going to wait regardless. |
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Hey, it would be different if 2006 was working great, and stable. But it's in a garbage state for many people as is. And when were we ever told features A,B,C won't be in the next version, hell I assumed everything would be there. It seems that alot of what was added for 6.5 was left out, leaving me to believe that they just started with V6 and moved on from there. |
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No. Because it means someone else gets to benefit from it and that someone might be me the next time that happens. It comes and goes. It's all luck of the draw sometimes. And Marc already pointed out, if you pre-ordered the game, you got a discount and if you didn't, well, then you didn't. I don't see why everyone is so annoyed about this. It's not as if you shelled out thousands for a laptop that didn't work or a car that was a lemon. It's a game. They're working on it and so, you can either play it the best way you know how until then or you can ignore it..murmur stuff under your breath and never bother with it again. But people are sitting around here acting as if they want Markus and all the folks from SI to come out of the shadows, with their heads between their legs, begging all the l33t n00bs from the b0ards d00d to forgive them for doing what happens in the status quo all the time. If the game hadn't come out until say, mid-July while they worked on it to get it more perfect, people will be bitching about them busting deadlines and saying things like "what the hell have they been doing for the past year and.." A better analogy is are you made when someone gets a plane ticket to go to the same place you are or a hotel room in the same expensive hotel you're in, for a lot cheaper than what you paid, because they just got lucky? Stuff happens. But they're trying to fix it. That doesn't give them a free pass, per se. But its not like this is the first time this has ever happened in video game history or will ever happen again. And like I mentioned before, when you buy a console game (especially a sports game) and it has problems..you shut up and just keep playing. Because they don't release patches until the following year for the same darn price. Or you wait until later that year when it starts to get marked down. But I guess that's not fair to all those people who are "loyal" to EA Sports by sending them their money on the first day a game is released or pre-ordering it. Why should all the latecomers get all the benefits? |
Taken from "The Blog for the Sports Gamer" which BTW is a great blog run by Bill Abner and a couple of other professional game reviews. From this I am strating to see that all may not be lost and a patch or two is all OOtp 06 will need (crossing fingers).
It looks like we can expect OOTP 2006 Patch 2 on or around July 7th. I've posted a couple iterations of the fix list already so I'll just link to the post, which has the most up to date information (as of July 3rd). However, there is one new addition to the list that I'm particularly pleased to see: saving league setups as distributable templates. As it was, you could not save progress during league creation. Sure, once you created a league you could save it as a QuickStart, but that really wasn't enough, for a couple of reasons. For one, given how big leagues could get, creating a world of baseball leagues in one sitting is a monumental task that can take hours to complete. Plus, if you wanted to use someone else's work as a Quickstart you might get stuck with some league creation settings that you really don't want with no way to change it. Quickstarts were a good idea that really weren't implemented properly in the initial release. Allowing for players to create and distribute templates from the league creation screen instead of after it's finalized eliminates that problem. Kudos to the Markus, Marc and the rest of the team on implementing this feature for the next patch! http://sportsgamer.blogspot.com/ |
We can only hope, but I have my doubts.
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Well, we've scheduled the rest of the month for working on patches so even if we dont get something 100% right this Friday we're not going anywhere fast.
It seems that many of the AI problems that appeared in the original release / patch 1 are looking a lot lot better (I've asked the guys this morning to log anything they still think needs major attention). Markus has added a few new features and fixed one serious issue affecting online leagues. The current 1.0.2 fix list reads as follows... Added Features - Added the ability to load & save world setups as templates during game creation - Added wild pitches to the team pitching stats table - Added passed balls to the team fielding stats table - Added player league level to the custom filter and view options for player lists - Added two new stat splits: Last Year and 2 Years Ago - Added an option to automatically delete retired players who never reached the major leagues, saving memory - Added an option to the preferences dialog to select the use of page selectors for sortable lists - Added accomplishments section to league history - Added milestones to player history summary - Added the option to delete all free agents (only available in commish mode) - Added the option to release all players and schedule an inaugural draft (only available during pre-season) - Added the option to watch any game when not in commish mode - Added the option of not pausing after each play in the in-game screen when watching a game - Active roster sizes can now be reduced up to 15 men - Added support for 1 and 2 man pitching rotations - Added "import all teams from import_export folder" function - Added the ability to edit coach/manager strategies if in commish mode (#1899) - Added blown saves to pitching game log page Fixes / Improvements #227 - Fixed wildcard scheduling opponent in initial playoff round #1486 - Trade offers no longer expire after using the back button #1609 - Pages with scrolling lists now remember where you were when you leave the page and return #1694 - Fixed problems with the AI going over the salary cap through trades #1710 - Fixed a series of memory leaks causing the game to perform badly the longer it was left open and simming #1747 - Fixed issue where teams were charged twice when releasing arbitration-eligible players after the season ends #1742 - Fixed importing of HBP, balk, WP, and batter hit-by-pitch ratings from OOTP 6.x leagues #1762 - Fixed some inconsistencies with spring training in the Schedule Evaluation report #1770 - Fixed Rule 5 Draft scheduling problems #1813 - Reduced frequency of severe injuries #1830 - Up and down arrows on lower pane of Player History page now work correctly #1851 - Improved bullpen AI, particularly overuse of visiting bullpens and use of too many relievers in a game #1855 - Player list now sorted by last names instead of first names #1818 - The AI no longer tries to trade recently signed or drafted players #1793 - Factored groundball percentage more into the calculations of HR frequency in the game engine #1799 - Fixed DFA issues when using the right-click menu #1826 - Tweaked player extention demands #1831 - fixed infield fly rule calls #1938 - fixed problems with foreigner limir rule #1888 - Fixed game log displaying issues in in-game screen #1898 - Fixed coach ratings display in personnel screen #1751 - Pinch hitting stats are now properly recorded #1856 - Fixed cosmetical issues with coaches & scouts disabled #1785 - Fixed "invalid date" error when downloading all team exports via FTP #1827 - Fixed problems with drafted players showing up when preventing any roster moves #1903 - Improved roster AI in terms of carrying enough SP #1911, #1936 - Fixed problems with importing of historical fielding ratings #1988 - Fixed generating of player with "1" as the last name #1965 - Fixed phantom ER bug - Coach photos can now be assigned using the Coach_# naming convention, so photos are no longer shared between players and coaches - Fixed FTP export path bug - Adjusted salaries for closers - Fixed problems with the usage of depth chart settings - Fixed rare crash when viewing league history - Fixed some crash issues (#1745, #1778, #1836, #1838, #1800, #1779, #1806, #1863, #1780, #2024, #1942, #2021) - Fixed some PbP issues (#1925, #1921, #1922, #1924, #1948) - Improved 40-man roster selection AI - Improved contract offering AI if computer teams have lots of money available - Improved loading time and game speed - Improved pinch-hitting AI - Improved retiring logic - Improved the memory footprint of the game when handling large amounts of data - Decreased the value of middle relievers in trades - AI no longer adjusts lineups for human teams when managing a game - Free agent pool after creating a league no longer contains top prospects - Tweaked passed ball and wild pitch frequencies - Tweaked player aging & development (increasing number of talent changes) - Tweaked player position rating calculation & importing - Scrollable player & coaches lists now remember their position - Game now remembers position filters when on the lineup or ratings page - Added fields to player table in SQL dump - Split SQL dump player table into 4 tables - Tweaked player generator in terms of speed and stealing - Tweaked starting pitcher endurance - Retired non-pitchers now do not become pitching coaches and vice-versa - Tweaked importing of OOTP 6/6.5 leagues - The FTP password text edit box now behaves properly, displaying * |
Can't wait, Marc. Looks as if Markus has shifted into overdrive!
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He certainly has, he had a little break and was ill but he's firing now and I hope it meets with approval from many of you here.
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Marc: Are there any plans to deal with the coach/scout problems? Right now they don't age or gain experience and there are zero coaches/scouts with double digit ratings outside of those that start with MLB clubs.
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Not sure I follow. As far as I am aware they do age and improve their ratings.
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They do age and improve their ratings from what I've seen. Now, if we could just get their career records added to their coaching cards (for the seasons they were Managers only, of course), then they'd be perfect.
I notice that there's now a Manager of the Year award given (according to the SION broadcast). Does that information actually show up anywhere in the game? I haven't been able to find it. |
For what it's worth, I really, REALLY like the addition of world templates.
Now I can set up a MLB-style league with real names and logos for both major and minor leagues with one click, instead of putting in two hours every time. |
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