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Edward64 09-29-2017 03:35 PM
Dug a little deeper, here's a poll on what vets think. It is a Fox poll so maybe wait for a couple others but the vet opinion doesn't surprise me.

Fox News Poll: Views shift on kneeling during national anthem | Fox News
Quote:
Fifty-five percent of voters in the latest Fox News poll see kneeling during the national anthem as an inappropriate form of protest. That’s down six percentage points from 61 percent who felt that way a year ago (September 2016).

Those most likely to disapprove of the kneeling include majorities of men (60 percent), independents (62 percent), whites (63 percent), veterans (65 percent), Republicans (86 percent), and Trump voters (90 percent).

cartman 09-29-2017 03:45 PM
Tom Price, you're fired.

Edward64 09-29-2017 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman (Post 3177308)
Tom Price, you're fired.

I think he officially resigned, no unemployment?

Easy Mac 09-29-2017 03:59 PM
So since he barely made it through the approval process, I assume we're not going to have a health secretary for the next "however-long-Trump-lasts" years.

tarcone 09-29-2017 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miami_fan (Post 3177302)
How would you define injustice and police brutality? What evidence would you need to see to convince you that there is injustice and systematic police brutality?

I don't want you to think I am playing some sort of got ya game with the questions. I am not. I ask because I truly believe that these sort of conversations go off the track early because different sides are operating under different definitions of these terms. I also think we are also at a point where if the evidence does not come from our favorite think tank side, we are not going to give it any credence.

Injustice would be people being prosecuted and found guilty for things they did not do. I dont know if there are stats out there on this type of thing. I do not think it has to do with sentencing. Like I said earlier, those that can afford to get a lawyer to off or lighter sentences, do. But that crosses all color lines, Not economic lines, but color.

Police brutality would be cops randomly pounding on someone.I believe the LA police were practicing police brutality in the 90s. I dont believe it is prevalent today. I think there are incidents of abuse. But I dont think it happens all the time.

NobodyHere 09-29-2017 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman (Post 3177308)
Tom Price, you're fired.

That's a heavy price to pay for using private jets.

tarcone 09-29-2017 04:13 PM
I guess because I paid for it, he got canned. I have never flown in a private jet. A single prop, yes. But not a jet. I hope I got my monies worth.

ISiddiqui 09-29-2017 04:16 PM
Well it's also because he was in charge of getting rid of the ACA and failed at that.

I'd be interested to see if he tries to primary Karen Handel for his old seat back.

CrescentMoonie 09-29-2017 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AENeuman (Post 3177286)

The vast majority of people in these communities are not lost causes. At the very least it's the 80/20 rule here. I think you are typical in that most people without experience in the communities would say most are lost causes (without macro solutions).

Providing the youth with the opportunity to thrive will change both the poor and not poor communities for the better. I think a lot of the protests were by people who lacked opportunity ( and the education and skills to advocate).


I worked on a couple of research projects in Honolulu while doing my PhD classwork, and I saw much the same. 80% of adults living in homeless shelters there are working full time. The shelters are filled with so many kids at this point that they're part of the bus routes for the school system. The shelters themselves are filthy, but a great community center exists now and there are also a few maker spaces that have popped up and are focusing resources on kids. Sure, there's a few that are in need of the majority of help for those drug and mental health issues, but most are hard working people who are trying to move up the ladder while giving their kids a better vision of the future.

Thomkal 09-29-2017 05:06 PM
And the Price is definitely not right:

Price resigns from HHS after facing fire for travel - POLITICO

Easy Mac 09-29-2017 05:21 PM
Who is paying for his flight back to Georgia?

Galaril 09-29-2017 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3177273)
I'm a white person that's lived and been around both extremes you mentioned and I've never seen sincere help turned away. I'm sure it happens, but I've never personally witnessed it. Even when it does happen if you're actually there to help people rather than make yourself feel better by trying to help them you move on to the next family or next community and you try to help them. Does it make any sense at all to think "you're black (or white) and didn't accept my help so no black people will"?

Throwing your hands up and not trying because a white person won't be taken seriously when trying to help black communities is part of the problem. There's no attempt to even understand one another and solve common problems. White community problems aren't just problems for white people and black community problems aren't just problems for black people. Seeing it in those terms is one of the biggest problems we have in regards to race in this country. These problems have an impact on everyone.

It's not about changing your culture or theirs. It's about having a better understanding of one another seeing things from their perspective. If you (collectively, not you) tune out the message because you don't agree with it then maybe that's because it hits too close to home and you should pay more attention to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3177300)
You know, I tried looking for a poll on military/vets opinion on the controversy. Don't see one yet. If you have a poll, please link it.

I guess you are saying the majority of military/vets don't think kneeling in protest disrespects the flag?

I'm thinking more that military/vets will say they fought for this right to protest but it does disrespect the flag.

Yeah that is a bet I would make in Vegas but will I look for a survey.

Thomkal 09-29-2017 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Mac (Post 3177324)
Who is paying for his flight back to Georgia?

Not him probably :) This has to be some kind of record for most staff fired/resigned in the first year of a Presidency-can't believe Trump hasn't tweeted about that yet.

stevew 09-29-2017 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Mac (Post 3177324)
Who is paying for his flight back to Georgia?

He turned in all of his Net Jets frequent flyer miles

Easy Mac 09-30-2017 07:37 AM
I, for one, applaud a President who will attack Americans who are in the midst of a tragedy caused by a natural disaster. /s

BBT 09-30-2017 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3177307)
Dug a little deeper, here's a poll on what vets think. It is a Fox poll so maybe wait for a couple others but the vet opinion doesn't surprise me.

Fox News Poll: Views shift on kneeling during national anthem | Fox News

I'm an 18 year vet that was just medically retired last year. I'm not a Fox News guy and I lean more left than right these days, but I'd say this poll is accurate in regards to vets and active duty. Military tends to lean right because the Repubs tend to up the military budget when in office which makes everything easier at work when everything is approved (equipment purchases, new uniforms, fancy meetings in nice locations). Officers go nuts over that stuff as it really beefs up their resumes and network when they can spend willy-nilly. Most enlisted are your typical folks from rural America so they lean right just because and the officers tend to ensure it stays that way once they're in.

Problem is, government could cut a lot out of the military budget by closing some bases; the DoD even pushed for that as we had trouble manning bases with the last two wars and all the deployments. Repubs won't let them though as they know they'd lose a voter base in that area; most of the civs/contractors on base lean right as most are vets and if the base closes, they go somewhere else. We've got bases that the military basically has to find a mission for because they are useless. That of course wastes even more money, but the Repubs don't care.

Funny thing is, our pay and benefits usually get cut when the Repubs control things. Pay raises were at their highest under Clinton as he ensured we actually were above the poverty line for the first time. Bush 2 immediately came in and stopped that, beefed up enlistment for the wars, and then had to cut a bunch of experienced airmen in '05-'06. Lost a lot of good people then as they didn't worry about the performance, just the numbers. Funny thing, our budget stayed the same during that time. Obama came in and had to cut the budget which made a lot of people upset, but it did clean up the waste which was needed. Also implemented the 9/11 GI bill which was a major step up, especially being able to transfer to dependents. Pay didn't really increase, but that was expected with the budget cuts; most of us were doing ok due to Clinton's raises anyway. Officers hated it though as they couldn't get approval for their fancy parties and unnecessary trips anymore.

Got out before Trump, thank god. Things are crazy from what I hear. Mattis is doing a good job getting a hold on things; actually met him in '12, great guy, all military, but has a sense of humor that you won't see on the news. One of the few good decisions Trump has made as I couldn't imagine what things would be like if Trump picked someone else. People are worried about going to war due to Trump's nonsense. Military is tired from Iraq/Afghanistan/and the higher ops tempo as we're already stretched thin as it is. Korea would be a blood bath; I was there two times for a year each without my family and we basically prepped monthly to be a 42k man speed bump for the North Koreans. Goal was to hold out as long as possible until reinforcements got there but the expectation was that we'd all be casualties (most exercises we'd spend the time discussing which way would be the best way to go as there were many options if war broke out). Sobering thought, especially because that's just US lives. Millions of Koreans and Japanese would die as well.

Anyway, rambled on enough; just figured I'd give a recently retired POV on the topic. Funny thing was, I was a Repub when I went in; voted for Dole and Bush twice. Havent voted for a Repub president since...guess my eyes opened.

Galaril 09-30-2017 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBT (Post 3177358)
I'm an 18 year vet that was just medically retired last year. I'm not a Fox News guy and I lean more left than right these days, but I'd say this poll is accurate in regards to vets and active duty. Military tends to lean right because the Repubs tend to up the military budget when in office which makes everything easier at work when everything is approved (equipment purchases, new uniforms, fancy meetings in nice locations). Officers go nuts over that stuff as it really beefs up their resumes and network when they can spend willy-nilly. Most enlisted are your typical folks from rural America so they lean right just because and the officers tend to ensure it stays that way once they're in.

Problem is, government could cut a lot out of the military budget by closing some bases; the DoD even pushed for that as we had trouble manning bases with the last two wars and all the deployments. Repubs won't let them though as they know they'd lose a voter base in that area; most of the civs/contractors on base lean right as most are vets and if the base closes, they go somewhere else. We've got bases that the military basically has to find a mission for because they are useless. That of course wastes even more money, but the Repubs don't care.

Funny thing is, our pay and benefits usually get cut when the Repubs control things. Pay raises were at their highest under Clinton as he ensured we actually were above the poverty line for the first time. Bush 2 immediately came in and stopped that, beefed up enlistment for the wars, and then had to cut a bunch of experienced airmen in '05-'06. Lost a lot of good people then as they didn't worry about the performance, just the numbers. Funny thing, our budget stayed the same during that time. Obama came in and had to cut the budget which made a lot of people upset, but it did clean up the waste which was needed. Also implemented the 9/11 GI bill which was a major step up, especially being able to transfer to dependents. Pay didn't really increase, but that was expected with the budget cuts; most of us were doing ok due to Clinton's raises anyway. Officers hated it though as they couldn't get approval for their fancy parties and unnecessary trips anymore.

Got out before Trump, thank god. Things are crazy from what I hear. Mattis is doing a good job getting a hold on things; actually met him in '12, great guy, all military, but has a sense of humor that you won't see on the news. One of the few good decisions Trump has made as I couldn't imagine what things would be like if Trump picked someone else. People are worried about going to war due to Trump's nonsense. Military is tired from Iraq/Afghanistan/and the higher ops tempo as we're already stretched thin as it is. Korea would be a blood bath; I was there two times for a year each without my family and we basically prepped monthly to be a 42k man speed bump for the North Koreans. Goal was to hold out as long as possible until reinforcements got there but the expectation was that we'd all be casualties (most exercises we'd spend the time discussing which way would be the best way to go as there were many options if war broke out). Sobering thought, especially because that's just US lives. Millions of Koreans and Japanese would die as well.

Anyway, rambled on enough; just figured I'd give a recently retired POV on the topic. Funny thing was, I was a Repub when I went in; voted for Dole and Bush twice. Havent voted for a Repub president since...guess my eyes opened.

Thanks for your insight and glad you are home.

QuikSand 09-30-2017 08:20 AM
The hashtags #EverythingTrumpTouchesDies and #ETTD are gaining ground, and surprisingly re-usable, I think coined (or at least popularized) by @TheRickWilson, a never-Trump GOP figure.

I totally understand the allure of leaving your seat in Congress (or whatever) to become a key cabinet member in a federal Administration. But man, the attrition rate of the people (and issues) around 45 is completely unprecedented. And remember, they still haven't bothered to appoint anyone for the majority of high level Administration positions, so the departures are coming from a much smaller denominator than a typical Administration. Wow.

Oh, and I do still hear the reference from this thread issues many times over: Everything is a con.

Thomkal 09-30-2017 08:52 AM
I don't remember him saying this about Texas or Florida:

Trump slams Puerto Rico: ‘They want everything to be done for them’

JPhillips 09-30-2017 09:51 AM
I missed General Honore going the full Kanye on Trump a couple of days ago.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/09...rnett-ebof.cnn

Easy Mac 09-30-2017 09:55 AM
I hope these people die in a fire.

Sarah Sanders on Twitter: "US military & first responders saving many lives in PR, but like so many of their acts of heroism, is often a story that doesn’t get told"

JPhillips 09-30-2017 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3177362)
The hashtags #EverythingTrumpTouchesDies and #ETTD are gaining ground, and surprisingly re-usable, I think coined (or at least popularized) by @TheRickWilson, a never-Trump GOP figure.

I totally understand the allure of leaving your seat in Congress (or whatever) to become a key cabinet member in a federal Administration. But man, the attrition rate of the people (and issues) around 45 is completely unprecedented. And remember, they still haven't bothered to appoint anyone for the majority of high level Administration positions, so the departures are coming from a much smaller denominator than a typical Administration. Wow.

Oh, and I do still hear the reference from this thread issues many times over: Everything is a con.

On the everything Trump touches dies idea, the VA secretary is a great case study. He was the #2 at VA under Obama, was well respected by Dems and GOPers, and had a reputation as a very competent manager. Now he's in hot water for improper travel costs as he and his wife worked/toured their way through Europe.

RainMaker 09-30-2017 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3177366)
I don't remember him saying this about Texas or Florida:

Trump slams Puerto Rico: ‘They want everything to be done for them’

They ain't white.

NobodyHere 09-30-2017 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3177374)
On the everything Trump touches dies idea, the VA secretary is a great case study. He was the #2 at VA under Obama, was well respected by Dems and GOPers, and had a reputation as a very competent manager. Now he's in hot water for improper travel costs as he and his wife worked/toured their way through Europe.

The guy should be in hot water for wasting taxpayer money. If Trump's negative aura has brought this to light then it is a good thing.

Groundhog 09-30-2017 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Mac (Post 3177355)
I, for one, applaud a President who will attack Americans who are in the midst of a tragedy caused by a natural disaster. /s

Oh well, maybe a weekend of golfing will help cheer him up!

Edward64 10-01-2017 12:05 PM
Must be the good cop, bad cop tactic for the nuclear chicken game.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/01/politi...rea/index.html
Quote:
President Donald Trump on Sunday again mocked North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and said Secretary of State Rex Tillerson should not bother trying to negotiate with him in an effort to stop the country's development of nuclear weapons.

"I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man..." Trump said on Twitter.
He continued, "...Save your energy Rex, we'll do what has to be done!"

RainMaker 10-01-2017 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3177505)
Must be the good cop, bad cop tactic for the nuclear chicken game.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/01/politi...rea/index.html

Or Tillerson was getting stuff done and moron decided to just tweet out shit because Twitter is more important than national security.

Edward64 10-01-2017 06:44 PM
FWIW. Guessing Trump will tweet about this and crow about a "win"

Only 11 NFL Players Didn't Stand for National Anthem in Early Week 4 Games | Bleacher Report
Quote:
A week after a record 180 NFL players sat or knelt for the national anthem, players by and large backed away from the protest Sunday.

ESPN's Darren Rovell noted just 11 players from the early slate of games knelt or sat. Six players from the Buffalo Bills, three from the Miami Dolphins and two from the Detroit Lions protested. The entire Baltimore Ravens team also briefly took a knee before the anthem.

Brian Stelter of CNN reported some players who knelt last week stood this time "out of respect for our country and military, not out of respect for Trump."

Easy Mac 10-01-2017 08:19 PM
$5 says the first thing he says to anyone he meets in Puerto Rico is about how he dedicated a golf trophy to them.

NobodyHere 10-01-2017 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Mac (Post 3177571)
$5 says the first thing he says to anyone he meets in Puerto Rico is about how he dedicated a golf trophy to them.

I think the first thing he'll do is enquire about property prices.

PilotMan 10-02-2017 06:58 AM
Vegas is going to bury this story that rings along with the other attacks that have been like it.

Transcripts detail plot to bomb Somali refugees in Kansas

Quote:
WICHITA, Kan. (AP) — Three men accused of conspiring to bomb a Kansas mosque and an apartment complex housing Somali refugees also allegedly discussed killing the refugees' white landlord because he rented to Muslims, a move prosecutors say was meant to ensure the attack fully conveyed their anti-Muslim message.

-----

Quote:
Hate crimes against Muslims in the US rose by 67% in 2015 in the second-highest annual percentage increase recorded since 1992, according to FBI statistics released Monday.

-----

Quote:
In a just released report, nationwide CAIR found a 57-percent increase in the number of bias incidents in 2016. That's up from just over 1,400 in 2015.

Incidents increased only 5-percent from 2014 to 2015.

-----

https://www.wired.com/story/adam-pur...olathe-kansas/

JPhillips 10-03-2017 07:52 AM
Quote:
“I’ve been very candid about this. We need to have new deficits because of that. We need to have the growth,” Mulvaney said. “If we simply look at this as being deficit-neutral, you’re never going to get the type of tax reform and tax reductions that you need to get to sustain 3 percent economic growth.”

Everything's a con.

Thomkal 10-03-2017 08:53 AM
Pat Robertson Blames Las Vegas Massacre On 'Disrespect' For Donald Trump | HuffPost

ISiddiqui 10-03-2017 12:39 PM
Quote:
TRUMP: Mick Mulvaney is here, and Mick is in charge of a thing called budget. I hate to tell you, Puerto Rico, but you are throwing our budget out of whack. We spent a lot of money on Puerto Rico, and that's fine. We saved a lot of lives. If you look at the — every death is a horror, but if you look at a real catastrophe like Katrina and you look at the tremendous hundreds and hundreds of people that died and what happened here with a storm that was just totally overbearing. No one has ever seen anything like that. What is your death count?

PUERTO RICO GOV. RICARDO ROSSELLÓ: Sixteen.

TRUMP: Sixteen people certified. Sixteen people versus in the thousands. You can be very proud of all of your people and all of our people working together. Sixteen versus literally thousands of people. You can be very proud. Everyone around this table and everyone watching can be very proud of what's taking place in Puerto Rico.

Our president is so fucking embarrassing...

Thomkal 10-03-2017 12:51 PM
All you can do is shake your head and roll your eyes every time he says something. :(

Ksyrup 10-03-2017 12:53 PM
I'm convinced that the reason he speaks like this is that he only responds to compliments/ego strokes himself, so he feels the need to speak to people the same way. Which results in many cringeworthy moments. The man thinks we're all as insecure as he is.

QuikSand 10-03-2017 01:11 PM
I don't know why this diagnose-the-doofus thing is so compelling, but here we are...

David Roberts on Twitter: "20. ... the latter is infinitely scarier. Nobody can stop Trump from doing this shit, including Trump. God help us all. "

(it's a 20-tweet thread, the Vox article is just the coverage)

CrimsonFox 10-03-2017 01:17 PM
http://www.newnownext.com/u-s-votes-...ality/10/2017/

And they sink lower and lower...:(

Kodos 10-03-2017 01:25 PM
What is wrong with these people...

mckerney 10-03-2017 01:33 PM
Mueller Tasks an Adviser With Getting Ahead of Pre-Emptive Pardons - Bloomberg

Quote:
U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller has a distinctly modern problem. The president, judging by his tweets, could try to pardon people in his circle even before prosecutors charge anyone with a crime.

Mueller’s all-star team of prosecutors, with expertise in money laundering and foreign bribery, has an answer to that. He’s Michael Dreeben, a bookish career government lawyer with more than 100 Supreme Court appearances under his belt.

Acting as Mueller’s top legal counsel, Dreeben has been researching past pardons and determining what, if any, limits exist, according to a person familiar with the matter. Dreeben’s broader brief is to make sure the special counsel’s prosecutorial moves are legally airtight. That could include anything from strategizing on novel interpretations of criminal law to making sure the recent search warrant on ex-campaign adviser Paul Manafort’s home would stand up to an appeal.

"He’s seen every criminal case of any consequence in the last 20 years," said Kathryn Ruemmler of Latham & Watkins LLP, who served as White House counsel under President Barack Obama. "If you wanted to do a no-knock warrant, he’d be a great guy to consult with to determine if you were exposing yourself.”

Thomkal 10-03-2017 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonFox (Post 3177988)

And here I thought "Trump loves the gays"? Was there any comment from him or Haley before the vote as to why they were doing this?

Thomkal 10-03-2017 01:46 PM
In reading more about this, it may have to do with the capital punishment part-which some think might lead to a call for the end of capital punishment all together.

NobodyHere 10-03-2017 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3177999)
In reading more about this, it may have to do with the capital punishment part-which some think might lead to a call for the end of capital punishment all together.

Yeah, the resolution called for countries to consider ratifying this thing.

Second Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights - Wikipedia

AlexB 10-03-2017 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3177976)
Our president is so fucking embarrassing...

That can't be for real? Holy shit, googled, it is.

Out of everything I think I've heard him come out with, this might be the worst. FFS.

ISiddiqui 10-03-2017 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonFox (Post 3177988)

Eh... I bet it's due to the call for elimination of capital punishment for minors part, which a few US states do, and not the LGBTQ part.

larrymcg421 10-03-2017 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3178023)
Eh... I bet it's due to the call for elimination of capital punishment for minors part, which a few US states do, and not the LGBTQ part.

The last execution of someone who committed a crime as a minor was in 2003. No state still does this, as Roper v. Simmons made the practice unconstitutional.

Thomkal 10-03-2017 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3178023)
Eh... I bet it's due to the call for elimination of capital punishment for minors part, which a few US states do, and not the LGBTQ part.

Yes that appears to be the explanation:

This Is Why The US Voted Against A UN Resolution Condemning The Death Penalty For LGBT People

PilotMan 10-03-2017 04:59 PM
"YOU GET A PAPER TOWEL! AND YOU GET A PAPER TOWEL! AND YOU GET A PAPER TOWEL! Hey guys, check my form on this shot!"

Shkspr 10-03-2017 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3178042)
The last execution of someone who committed a crime as a minor was in 2003. No state still does this, as Roper v. Simmons made the practice unconstitutional.

It'll come back in a year or so when Kennedy and Ginsburg are replaced by David Clarke and Scott Baio and Texas wants to kill themselves a 14 year old.

RainMaker 10-03-2017 05:43 PM
More swamp draining.


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