Politifact does rate the bolded DeSantis claim as mostly false. However, DeSantis provided 2 examples (and Politifact did not deny). One at 14 (top) and one at 17 (genital).

Article also said "The (top) procedure is mostly offered to teenagers 15 and older, The New York Times reported." which implies it is happening more time.

So I do think the surgeries are occurring before "full maturity" aka "of age".

PolitiFact | Transition-related surgery limited to teens, not 'young kids.' Even then, it's rare

Below is my favorite Walker statement. I've seen his ads on YT, they attack Warnock on inflation/economy etc. So I figure those are pretty much par for the course in any election.

But below reminds me of similar conversations I had with a couple evangelicals in the past. Believe in evolution or not, don't mischaracterize it like below.

PolitiFact | Herschel Walker misconstrues evolution of humans, apes

The "Think about it" at the end is the cherry on top.

Literally what I stated earlier in the thread. They are going to find the needle in a haystack and exploit it as some kind of sweeping generalization and morons on the right will eat it up like gospel because god forbid they venture 2 inches outside their bubble. It is any number of things. This, kids in schools using litter boxes, late term abortion, CRT, etc...shit that literally isn't happening but it is way more satisfying to these people to be outraged at the other side than it is to process actual facts.

A more troubling aspect of this is I have noticed more "mainstream" journalists not calling people out on their BS in real time. Going back and making a correction doesn't do shit once the soundbite is in the ecosystem it becomes gospel. The late term abortion is one I am seeing this with a lot.

My post referenced a NYT article that implied more was happening.

Did more googling on surgeries. There were 832 (from 2019-2021, ages 13-17) confirmed with 776 (top) + 56 (genital). Article says these were done with insurance and "this tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket" so very likely, more than 832. So is 832+, over 3 years, a needle in a haystack to you?

Number of transgender children seeking treatment surges in U.S.

Well, according to some sites there are about 20-30M teenagers in the US. So I guess 800 out of 25M (over 3 years) is a fraction of a fraction of a percent.

Good point. Using that same scale, we really shouldn't worry about mass shooters as a percent of total US population.

There is a lot here. I may use terms like "us" and "we". I don't mean it as an attack against you personally. I just mean it as society in general.

Parents are already consenting to elective life altering medication and/or surgeries on behalf of minors who cannot possibly have a clear understanding of what they're about to undergo. Circumcision is an obvious one.

More along the gender affirming route, it is conservatively estimated that 1-2% of babies are born with sexual organs that don't fit neatly into a male or female box. That could mean a slew of things including having both male and female organs but also having sexual organs that incomplete, too big (usually female) or too small(usually male). That does not necessarily mean that the babies are unhealthy or need any medical intervention. However, in order to fit into our society, parents and doctors consult with each other and make a call that the baby is either male or female and make the medical adjustments needed to fit our society's definition of male and female. Of course there is a 50/50 chance that the parents have made the wrong choice. Their boy now has female genitalia or their girl now has male genitalia and all of the associated dysphoria. Some parents have taken the view that such practices are child abuse and leave their children as is. Of course, that comes with the risk of their children being abused by us in the society for being freaks.

There are also anatomy things that become more apparent as a child enters puberty. For example, humans who identify as boys, want to identify as boys, and have male sexual organs may found out that they have a condition called Klinefelter Syndrome which may cause them to grow breasts. Gender affirming care is removing those breasts. Others may have a genetic condition called 5-Alpha-Reductase Deficiency which can affect their body's ability to increase muscle mass, deepen their voice, development pubic hair, or have a growth spurt. In other words, their bodies is much closer to society's view of a woman's boy than a man's body. Again, there is not anything medically wrong with most of these people However. many of those that have that condition consider themselves lucky when it is diagnosed early. They are often raised as girls and end up receiving gender affirming care early in puberty because well it is safer for them as opposed to being raised as the boy who besides all that I described above, also has a micropenis and is unable to have biological children without assisted reproduction.

I could go on with other examples and I have not even delved into the wide world of gender dysphoria. I just want to point out that we as a society are a-okay with parents making these types of decisions for children all the time often without the child's knowledge. I do wonder how many of these cases fit into one of the two categories I described.

In this case the needle in the haystack wouldn't be the 832 kisd over three years, but the number of those 832 that regretted the surgery after the fact.

This is a valid question. I don't think we have real/reasonable stats for that.

From the wiki article I posted previously, it ranged from 1-8% for all (adolescents & adults). I don't know if adolescents only study would have a higher/lower rate of regret. If you can find other stats, share it.

Actually yes it is. Especially in the context of the narrative the right is trying to push referenced in Mikes example. Not to mention raw numbers don’t really matter. What matters is how many of these kids down the road regretted that decision? Then factor in how many would have committed suicide had they not gotten the surgery? The right wants to believe you can pray the gay away when reality is all you do is shun these kids and an overwhelming number of them die because of it.

Dola- my needle in a haystack comment was more regarding the rare cases where as an adult they regretted having the surgery.

Fair enough. But I will point out you referenced my DeSantis post which was not about regret but about reassignment surgery for adolescents. That's what I was reacting to.

Specifically for gender reassignment surgery, IMO 832+ occurrences over 3 years for adolescents is statistically a needle in the haystack, but not in the context of this discussion.

I think it is. It’s literally less than 1 kid a day in a nation of almost 400 million people. Do you honestly think that’s worth the effort being put into this?

Same for school shootings. Is it worth the effort/discussion we are putting into that? To answer your question - it is worth the effort to debate it, for sure. Is it worth the effort to stop it ... TBH unsure. But I'll go back to one of my themes above, I don't think they should punish the parents. If we want to punish someone, punish the health professionals that enable and do them.

School Shootings by Country 2022

I can not believe how many adults believe there are children identifying as cats and shitting in oversized litter boxes.

I don't know how we get out of this alive.

For the most part people underestimate the number of people that are not politically engage at all, yet still vote. In a mid-term there are less, but there is still a significant number. I was listening to podcast where a political researcher just went out and randomly talked to people. The vast majority had some strong political views, but the people who they would vote for often have the exact opposite voting records. They adapt an attitude about certain candidates largely by either single issues, or just a general perception from what little they do hear. These type of "evil evil evil" commercials just form an opinion for those who don't care enough to actually be informed.

Are there really lots of adults who believe that there are children identifying as cats and shitting in oversized litter boxes?

or is it that there are lot of adults who (incorrectly) believe that lots of other adults believe that there are children identifying as cats and shitting in oversized litter boxes?

I honestly do not know the answer to that. And regardless of the answer... I don't know how we get out of this alive.

Dunno -- ask Joe Rogan.

Again, top surgery is easily reversible. It is very common for women to have breast surgeries, and I would guess most have something they are unhappy about with their natural breast. Genital surgery is the more irreversible, and from what I have seen is almost non-existent in underage people. If they want to restrict just that (and from what I can see, doctors recommend waiting till at least 18), I don't see an issue. But withholding things like hormone therapy and such is just plain wrong.

Furry science and research is real!

What's a Furry? - Furscience

Tangentially related to above. Was watching YT Border Security: Canada. There was an episode where a guy identified as a furry (e.g. they found his outfit). They checked his laptop for child porn and bestiality.

I forget exactly what was said but basically they said furry with furry was not bestiality. Had a chuckle with that.

When we were walking around Taos, there was a dude walking around with a head and shoes. I assumed he was doing the furry thing and not just a team mascot on lunch break. Definitely a first for me.

The comparison is absurd which is likely why no one has responded to you and this is the last time I will on this subject.

There's a cottage industry for these made-up stories that boomers eat up. We're already starting in on the "your kid's Halloween candy is going to be laced in fentanyl" around here.

Transitioning = school shootings on the scale of evil is what I'm picking up from (half) listening to this conversation.

How many other kids die when one kid gets gender transition surgery?

Holy shit

pic.twitter.com/fRz1zgBp04

— Olivia Julianna �� (@0liviajulianna) October 13, 2022

One saves kids lives one is kids being murdered. It is that simple.

Actually, I think Edward is correct.

Stopping school shootings undeniably would save/does save the lives of children.

Likewise, preserving a right to gender affirming care also would save/does save the lives of children.

An excellent point Edward. I commend you.

How about we all take a break and argue about football in the other thread for a bit?

A strong argument could be made that kids getting help with their mental health (IE a ton of the conversation in this thread lately) could actually go a long way towards preventing school shootings. Unfortunately, we don't live in a country or even frequent a forum willing to have that conversation currently.

I think we desperately need to increase the amount of mental health resources available for children on up. Our mental health infrastructure is laughable.

The thing with any discussion of mental health is that we have been conditioned to be suspect about any discussion of mental health. Let's be honest. When most of us hear that someone is having a mental health issue, what we actually hear is that person is making excuses, isn't tough enough and/or unwilling to take responsibility for their actions etc. Any increase in mental health resources for those who need it at that time is seen as providing those people a special advantage over the rest of us who don't need those services at that moment. Never mind that all of us will probably need those services at some point in our lives.

I've got 3 extended family members with significant depression or bi-polar issues. Right or wrong, they've all be prescribed drugs and all 3 are better.

One member started with "talk therapy" (?, no drugs) and although that seemed to help some, that member didn't really get noticeably better until prescribed drugs.

So generally speaking, I think we have the resources, we just need to scale it.

I've asked my wife (autism teacher) why it seems there is a greater number of autistic kids now (e.g. her school district had to expanded autism services due to volume). She said it may just be that we are now just more aware/diagnose autism better.

I've had the same question with mental health. I do think there is more awareness and better diagnosis of mental health nowadays and that would explain some of the (presumed) increase, but it sure would be nice to blame it on fluoride in the water or like.

I read somewhere it could also be related to the rise in social media for kids. I can see that link.

Probably won't amount to much. Pretty sure it wasn't a smart move. But have to admire the guy for his convictions.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63252559

Stop it, both of you. I don't have time for this kind of foolishness.

Eh, Ben beat me to it. But....

SFW: https://youtu.be/moSFlvxnbgk?t=59

Sure, no problem

This is worse than just a false rumor. This one has layers, man.

My @NBCNews colleagues and I spent the last month finding the root of America's hottest, dumbest urban legend:

Schools are leaving out litterboxes for kids who identify as furries.

Despite what Joe Rogan says, it's not true.

But its origins are grimmer than you'd ever imagine.

— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) October 14, 2022

It was a pretty good tell when you saw no pictures of these litter boxes that were supposedly being added to schools. Every kid has a phone now so it'd be all over social media.

Jeez, cat littler buckets to be used in emergencies during active shooter situations. That is grim.

Honestly I did not think about that part.

Elon Musk is a perfect example why allowing massive wealth and power to be concentrated in one person is a horrible idea. He's just a disaster waiting to happen. I'm amazed anyone would buy a Tesla at this point.

Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge | Reuters


So based on this ruling we should be able to ban assault rifles and just about any firearm that isn't a musket since they didn't exist in 1791 and therefore are not protected by the 2nd amendment.

Besides pulling a fake badge out on Warnock tonight during the debate (and getting scolded by the moderator for it), it was clear Walker's team absolutely pounded into his head; inflation, energy independence, and Joe Biden.

It was painful to watch Walker try to explain anything.

I like the cut of your jib.

That's exactly what it is. Autism has existed since before the Stone Age.

I think there's an online meme that sums this situation up best: "Drugs are expensive, we're not wasting them in your kids candy". But this stupid rumor has been around since I was a kid - only then it was LSD in candy.

SI