Well, after his tour, it looks like he's solidified upwards of 70% of the vote in the socialist leaning European countries, but unfortunately they won't be able to cast absentee ballots for him in November, so I guess we'll see how that translates to votes here in America.

Yes, if you asked McCain to explain the difference, and especially further to explain how it influences politics throughout the greater region (for instance, is Hamas a Sunni or Shiite organization), I don't think he'd really know. He just doesn't give the impression that he'd know (see below).


A practical effect of confusion over basic facts leads to things like going to war over false pretences.

Anyway, go find the Sunni/Shiite clip. After Lieberman corrects him, McCain says "Oh yeah", pretty off-hand, as if he really doesn't care that he's gotten it wrong.

If we were talking about the Tutsis and Hutus than maybe it wouldn't be a big deal. But this is supposedly one of the centerpieces of his campaign, and is central to probably the #1 foreign policy issue the next President will face. I'd expect him (and Obama) to understand it very, very clearly.

Maybe we'll see more in the debates (Hah!).

At least that's better than the GOP events, where people in their 60s come and drink heavily at the event, and then drive drunk back to their McMansions. :rolleyes:

Seriously, what was the point of that statement?


Here you're finally on the money. The turnout of Obama's youthful supporters (or lack thereof) will be a big determining factor on election day.


Hah! :D

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think the point of Obama's trip was to get the votes of non-Americans.

Just that they definitely weren't there for Obama. Bragging about the huge crowds is kind of funny to me when that's the audience. They vaguely know they're anti-Bush because that's what they hear in popular culture, but they couldn't tell you where Obama's from.

It's super-cynical - but I know these people. Maybe he inspired a voter or two in the crowd though, who knows.

Which would put him in step with the majority of voters.

It really isn't good press, imo. I mean, the people who love Obama will love him no matter what he does, but I think the people hen eeds to win over are mostly scratching their heads trying to figure out what Germany has to do with the price of gas.

I had never thought McCain had much of a shot at WI.

And, flere, look: You're just going to have to accept that Iraq and Afghanistan do, in fact, share a border.

I was more referring to your previous comments about Madison. ;)


A border for me to POOP ON!

John McCain on why a Presidential candidate might go abroad to give a speech:

You know, I was thinking, if Obama wants the good press of massive crowds and looking Presidential... why even give the convention acceptance speech in Denver? Hell, have it in Wembley Stadium over in the UK. That's a bigger venue after all.

From another thread:

It's silly, but that seems to be the real selling point from Obama's supporters. You don't hear about what he's going to do as president, they just point out the number of Germans he can draw.

Yep... so are the reasons for Obama to give his speech at a stadium instead of a convention center where the rest of his party is at.

There's zero reason for him to move to a stadium except:

1. Ego
2. Perpetuate this Rock Star Image

#2 is working really, really well for him, so I guess I can't blame him.

Hey now. I'm no fan of Obama, but I don't find the Obama = egomaniac thing to be compelling.

What about:

3. So more people can attend, have access to what should be a historic event, and more $$ for the party.

Apparently there's no charge for the event itself - you just have to prove your loyalty to the cult or something:

The Price to Attend Obamas Speech in Denver - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

Maybe it's just because I've never seen the "rock star" presidential candidate. But this guy scares me. It's like he's running for Emperor. The New Obama Order.

LOL. Yeah, it sucks that people are excited about an election. Everyone always complains that young people don't vote, when they finally get excited behind a candidate they are goofy cult followers. If you can fill an 80,000 seat stadium, what's the benefit in holding it in an arena that holds maybe 20,000?

Anywho, have fun making up other people's intentions and posting silly things about how his campaign is so proud of the amount of Germans he can draw. You are just right I guess. It would suck to want to fight a war on terror and actually have a leader that other countries want to support and seem excited about...

I'm not making up other people's intentions at all. For months I've heard about Obama's crowds. But why should I vote for him? Because Germany's excited? Becaue he might get young people to vote? What are they voting for? Excitement? All the good he did in Chicago's inner cities?

I'm just responding to people pointing to the crowds like a scorecard: Obama: 100,000, McCain: 6. People are making the case for Obama by telling you that other people like him. It's a cycle devoid of substance and fueled by nothing more than momentum.

I can't be the only one picking up the vibe of creepiness. Perhaps "Obama loyalty points" will be our currency soon (That's an COMPLETE exageration).

And like I said, maybe this is just because I've never seen a presidential candidate with this kind of following and that it's actually a good thing. Maybe I'm that cynical. I don't see how it translates in any way to an effective presidency, but I'd love to be proven wrong. How long do I have to wait after he's elected for everything to be all better?

(I see the problem here: we forgot to make molson drink the Kool-Aid.)

"Hey molson! Come over here, we've got some, er, tasty stuff for you to drink!"

:D

I actually am kind of thirsty....

I'm not an Obama supporter (didn't vote for him in the primary) but I acknowledge the fact that we need to get younger people excited about politics in this country. I'm in my 30s, my views differ from lots of people in their 60s and 70s, especially here in the A, so I'm happy that people in my generation are actually getting more into politics.

As for the foreign aspect of it, if you can't see why getting our allies excited about our leader is important, maybe we should take a look at the percentage of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are American and if there's a way we can get other countries involved. Amazing how quick the "coalition of the willing" became the coalition of the devoid. If him touring Europe trying to gain back support of our allies, who clearly have moved away from us, is bad, I don't really know what else to say.

There's definitely some value in it - I'm not one of these people who says, "who cares what the rest of the world thinks". But I guess I'd rather see him do it as a president than as some sort of campaign strategy to show us what a big deal he is (just my impression of it). He's tapping into SOMETHING there as a candidate, that I just think is superficial.

If he gets huge adoring 200,000+ crowds in foreign countries as president (outside of the honeymoon period) - then I'll be impressed.

It would be worth more than our dollar too.

Can we add a corollary to Godwin that says if you call Obama, Messiah, you lose the argument?

I don't either but he is running as rock star, hoping that'll translate to better turnout in the election. It appears the polls, for what they're worth, still show it to be very close despite one candidate that can draw 200,000, while they other draws 6.

A gaffe for Obama on his European rock tour?

http://news.aol.com/political-machin...282x1200328977

One casualty of Sen. Barack Obama's busy schedule on his foreign trip was a planned visit to the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, a U.S. military hospital located at the U.S. air base in Ramstein, Germany. The cancellation left Obama with a gap in his official schedule this morning in Berlin before he boarded a plane to fly to Paris for a five-hour stop over en route to London. Obama was to visit with troops receiving treatment for wounds inflicted in Iraq and Afghanistan at Landstuhl. Now, the cancellation, and the Obama campaign's shifting explanations for it, are raising questions.

Obama adviser Robert Gibbs initially said that the visit was canceled because the campaign thought, "it would be inappropriate to make a stop to visit troops at a U.S. military facility as part of a trip funded by the campaign." That remark drew sharp criticism from Sen. John McCain, who said, "Barack Obama is wrong. It is never inappropriate to visit our men and women in the military." The McCain campaign also pointed out the Sen. McCain paid a visit to wounded troops on his last trip to Iraq. In response to increased questioning on the cancellation from the press, and perhaps to Sen. McCain's criticism, the Obama campaign later said that it was the military that requested that Obama not make the trip to the base. "We learned from the Pentagon last night that the visit would be viewed instead as a campaign event," a campaign adviser said.

But the military is disputing that explanation. A spokesman for the base told NBC News that the base was prepared to host Sen. Obama, as long as some conditions were met.

"[H]e could only bring two or three of his Senate staff member, no campaign officials or workers. Obama could not bring any media. Only military photographers would be permitted to record Obama's visit.

We didn't know why [the trip was canceled]. He was more than welcome. We were all ready for him."


Obama's campaign has steadfastly refuted the characterization of his trip as political. But the campaign's original explanation for removing the military hospital stop was based on the perception that the visit would be viewed as political. This is a pretty serious mistake by the campaign. The controversy will have no impact on the leaders and crowds Obama will encounter on the remainder of his trip. But it will resonate in the United States, and especially among those whom the trip was intended to convince that Sen. Obama had the experience to be the leader of the free world. Furthermore, the shifting explanations for the cancellation will cause the press to be more skeptical of the campaign's statements. That is something no candidate can afford, much less one who has enjoyed a largely uncritical relationship with the mainstream press.


He doesn't get the photo op he wants, so his campaign says "screw you." That'll play well with the troops. :lol:

There have been a handful of reports on the right-wing radio stations about Obama walking past lines of troops ready to greet him and shake hands while he marched to locations of carefully constructed photo opportunities. They also characterized the above report as Obama canceling his appearance when told that he couldn't be accompanied by the media.

This all had the right-wing slant on it, but it seems that Obama should know that he is always able to meet and talk to soldiers. He should also know that the military can't be involved in a campaign if they are never on camera. Seems like he is passing up easy goodwill with moves like this.

Not only that, but he blamed the military for not going.

Okay...this was pretty funny. :lol:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle4392846.ece


He ventured forth to bring light to the world
The anointed one's pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a miracle in action - and a blessing to all his faithful followers
Gerard Baker

And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.

The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow.

When he was twelve years old, they found him in the temple in the City of Chicago, arguing the finer points of community organisation with the Prophet Jeremiah and the Elders. And the Elders were astonished at what they heard and said among themselves: “Verily, who is this Child that he opens our hearts and minds to the audacity of hope?”

In the great Battles of Caucus and Primary he smote the conniving Hillary, wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes of Working Class Whites.

He travelled fleet of foot and light of camel, with a small retinue that consisted only of his loyal disciples from the tribe of the Media. He ventured first to the land of the Hindu Kush, where the

Taleban had harboured the viper of al-Qaeda in their bosom, raining terror on all the world.

And the Child spake and the tribes of Nato immediately loosed the Caveats that had previously bound them. And in the great battle that ensued the forces of the light were triumphant. For as long as the Child stood with his arms raised aloft, the enemy suffered great blows and the threat of terror was no more.

From there he went forth to Mesopotamia where he was received by the great ruler al-Maliki, and al-Maliki spake unto him and blessed his Sixteen Month Troop Withdrawal Plan even as the imperial warrior Petraeus tried to destroy it.

And lo, in Mesopotamia, a miracle occurred. Even though the Great Surge of Armour that the evil Bush had ordered had been a terrible mistake, a waste of vital military resources and doomed to end in disaster, the Child's very presence suddenly brought forth a great victory for the forces of the light.

And the Persians, who saw all this and were greatly fearful, longed to speak with the Child and saw that the Child was the bringer of peace. At the mention of his name they quickly laid aside their intrigues and beat their uranium swords into civil nuclear energy ploughshares.

From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered through the gate seated on an ass. The crowds of network anchors who had followed him from afar cheered “Hosanna” and waved great palm fronds and strewed them at his feet.

In Jerusalem and in surrounding Palestine, the Child spake to the Hebrews and the Arabs, as the Scripture had foretold. And in an instant, the lion lay down with the lamb, and the Israelites and Ishmaelites ended their long enmity and lived for ever after in peace.

As word spread throughout the land about the Child's wondrous works, peoples from all over flocked to hear him; Hittites and Abbasids; Obamacons and McCainiacs; Cameroonians and Blairites.

And they told of strange and wondrous things that greeted the news of the Child's journey. Around the world, global temperatures began to decline, and the ocean levels fell and the great warming was over.

The Great Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar, who many had believed was the anointed one, smiled and told his followers that the Child was the one generations had been waiting for.

And there were other wonderful signs. In the city of the Street at the Wall, spreads on interbank interest rates dropped like manna from Heaven and rates on credit default swaps fell to the ground as dead birds from the almond tree, and the people who had lived in foreclosure were able to borrow again.

Black gold gushed from the ground at prices well below $140 per barrel. In hospitals across the land the sick were cured even though they were uninsured. And all because the Child had pronounced it.

And this is the testimony of one who speaks the truth and bears witness to the truth so that you might believe. And he knows it is the truth for he saw it all on CNN and the BBC and in the pages of The New York Times.

Then the Child ventured forth from Israel and Palestine and stepped onto the shores of the Old Continent. In the land of Queen Angela of Merkel, vast multitudes gathered to hear his voice, and he preached to them at length.

But when he had finished speaking his disciples told him the crowd was hungry, for they had had nothing to eat all the hours they had waited for him.

And so the Child told his disciples to fetch some food but all they had was five loaves and a couple of frankfurters. So he took the bread and the frankfurters and blessed them and told his disciples to feed the multitudes. And when all had eaten their fill, the scraps filled twelve baskets.

Thence he travelled west to Mount Sarkozy. Even the beauteous Princess Carla of the tribe of the Bruni was struck by awe and she was great in love with the Child, but he was tempted not.

On the Seventh Day he walked across the Channel of the Angles to the ancient land of the hooligans. There he was welcomed with open arms by the once great prophet Blair and his successor, Gordon the Leper, and his successor, David the Golden One.

And suddenly, with the men appeared the archangel Gabriel and the whole host of the heavenly choir, ranks of cherubim and seraphim, all praising God and singing: “Yes, We Can.”

haha yes, yes it was. :thumbsup:

It's not so much pushing up as it is taking advantage. If he doesn't do it before the Olympics, it'll be competing with another huge news story. The Dems start their convention the day after the Olympics are over, and the GOP convention is the week after that.

It's actually a pretty logical time to do it. Considering the Dems are meeting sooner, I'm surprised we haven't heard more talk about an Obama announcement. Wonder if he'll try to wait til close to the convention?

There's no story here. The DoD said they didn't want Obama to stop with campaign staff. The same thing happened to McCain a while ago at a naval base.

dola

I expect Obama waits until the first day of the convention to announce the VP. It makes the first night suddenly an important event.

I can guarantee you'll enjoy this Kool-Aid.... :D


Nope.

You know, every time I do this, I get a sense of deja vu. Do you, in fact, ever post anything (political) that's supported by actual facts?

:p

McCain actually gave a pretty strong speech today.

Well gee, I've always wondered if you get paid for your work as a Spin Meister for the DNC?
:p

I don't know if it was noticed, but the one thing Obama asked Germany to do in his speech was to send more troops to Afghanistan. That one didn't get an applause and Merkel has already said its not happening. So while they may get excited about him... that may not exactly lead to them automatically getting involved in our wars.

Secondly, our European allies like John McCain and know that he respects our alliances and would never pull a Dubya and basically spit at them. So I don't think one or the other would have more support of our allies.

An interesting comment from Barack Obama while visiting the historically unpopular British Prime Minister:

"You're always more popular before you're actually in charge. Once you're responsible then you're going to make some people unhappy."

It's kind of the "backup QB" thing.

I don't think this has been posted yet. I thought it was an interesting (and accurate) take on the Gramm mess and the various other controversies we've seen this year.

http://thecurrent.theatlantic.com/ar...mar-police.php

$300b Farm Bill. $300b Mortgage Bailout Bill. Cool, I can't wait to see what next year's Congress will do.

Obama was up 48-41 in yesterday's Gallup Poll and today he's up 49-40. Obama has gotten a lot of coverage for his overseas trip and it was mostly viewed as a success so it'll be interesting to see if the gap closes again now that his trip is over.

Rasmussen and Research 2000 are both showing post-trip bumps (like Gallup) of about 3-5%.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I swear McCain was a better campaigner in 2000. This is just painful to watch, especially since he's had a couple of weeks to formulate this answer.

I'm thinking the debates are going to turn this thing into a huge landslide.

For some reason, we're not hearing anything about the most recent Gallup Poll of likely voters.

I think this election will be VERY close. I still have no strong feeling about who will win, but barring disaster or serious misstep, I don't think we see a blowout by either side.

Why Is Obama Not Imroving In The Polls

I agree with this.