Woot! Finally a "break" goes our way.

Prediction: We won't see Eric Gagne tonight.

Really? Was that necessary?

Amen. Dear god, what a blowhard.

Don't mind him, he must still be bitter about the ass-whoopin' Manny delivered in 2004.

Calling someone a piece of shit v. not hustling

It's not clear which is worse.

I hope Manny hits a home run tonight and takes 5 minutes to run the bases. Just because I think it's funny when people freak out about stuff like that.

At some level, me too.


Tell me, is there a baseball fan alive who thinks Tim McCarver has something intelligent to say? If Deion Sanders did it again, would anyone object?

All set and done, this is a masterful performance by Beckett.

I have a question for the people who kill Manny for not husteling, etc...

Would you rather have Manny and his antics or David Eckstein who hustles every play?

Yes.

Probably the reason baseball is really losing me as a fan. Oh well, he'll continue to get paid because he can hit.. no skin off his back.

For the recored, Pujols does that too and it irks me.

Considering we won the WS last year, those memories are gone.

You're one of those fans who thinks it's cool when your team is down 42-7 in a game and your favorite player gets a sack, spends 10 mins showing off about how good "he" is.

Lets pick a comparable player shall we?

Manny or Matt Holliday?

meh. manny is right in a way with his comments. he's the smart one. gets paid 20 million a year to hit, go home and call me when the next game is.

I had no problem with what he said since in fact it isn't the end of the world if the red sox don't win the series and yes they'll play again. Part of it is I get a kick out of all the tears shed and angst by red sox nation. It's pretty funny actually.

the point is "hustle" is overrated. I'll take a guy like Manny anyday. It's great if you have a guy who does both.

A Manny divided against itself cannot exist. Laid back Manny and Hustling Manny meet and world's collide.

And that compelled you to call him a "piece of shit" - are you frigging serious? You can have your lineup of HTWG's - I'll take good players. Without Manny, this series is almost certainly over - he's been the best hitter, by far.

Manny's been a beast since Year 1. Holliday took forever just to get to the majors and it's no guarantee that he's gone to be able to sustain it on a non-Coors aided team for a decade.

I wouldn't say it's "cool".

And I've never ever seen someone spend 10 minutes celebrating a sack, so it's difficult to cut through your hyperbole and see a point. If someone celebrated for 5 seconds for a sack - I might be mildly annoyed if he's a guy that hasn't proven himself, otherwise, I understand that emotions can come out in a game. A brief few seconds of celebration never killed anyone, and may simply be a natural response in a lot of cases. Playing a game is a different experience that watching it.

But in any event, it's not going to ruin my day. It's really not that big a deal. Who the fuck cares if someone spends 2 seconds looking at a home run? Don't you have better things to worry about?

The only Manny things that have annoyed me during his Red Sox run is his tendency to (apparently) stretch out his rehab time from injuries. He's a guy that enjoyed his Pawtucket rehab stint so much he didn't want to come back to Boston. He preferred the AAA ballparks. I feel like that's a legitimate thing for a fan to be pissed about.

Lack of hustling can occasionally cause an in-game effect, but pretty rarely. I refuse to get worked up over that. Sports is entertainment for me - so the things that upset me are few. Manny's lack of hustling cost him a base last night. Big deal. I wouldn't trade home runs/average/plate discipline for an extra base here and there.

A-frigging-men. As hitters go, Manny is probably one of the best - a career OPS+ of 154 is stunning, and while 2007 was a disappointment, I'd bet on him to bounce back. Holliday's single season best OPS+ was 150 - this year. Manny's defense is god awful and detracts from much of his value, but self-righteous posturing doesn't change just how good he is. I'd much rather see Manny play than a lineup of Ecksteins.

And I think it can't be emphasized enough that the Manny forgiveness/analysis depends on the fact that he's not a criminal, has a good relationship with the fans, and comes across as a nice guy. Add all of that to being a complete player on the field, and the quirks are really very minor.

So Manny's one step ahead in likeability over the great player who doesn't hustle and is a total asshole (Barry Bonds).

And that's where I think you're trying to have your cake and eat it to - carving out an exception. Bonds was the single best player on the Giants - by far. I'd much rather have him than Eckstein and co as well. Red Sox fans (and consistent fans like me) love Manny - rest assured, Giants fans love Bonds. We'd much rather see him not hurt his knee running out a meaningless fly ball than "hustle" for the sake of a bunch of old farts.

Hmmmm. I'd rather have Bonds than Eckstein on my team, definitely. But I wouldn't be a big fan. I dion't know if I would get behind him or defend him like I do with Manny. I really can't think of a comparsion. It seems with Boston teams, once the fan base really turns on someone, they're quickly moved out of town, so it's not something I've really experienced. What are the most overall unlikeable athletes in the last 20 years of Boston Sports? There's not a ton. (I'm sure that if Larry Bird was around today, he'd be considered an arrogant jackass, but his team's fans would still love him).

I don't just tolerate Manny - I'm a big Manny fan. I was just expressing that lack of hustling and the quirkiness is SO minor in the overall Manny picture.

Hey, I'm with you on that - Manny was/is my favorite Red Sox player from when I was in Boston (well, after Petey). Then again, I like Bonds as well - a lot. I always admire guys who couldn't give two shits what the media and the world at large thinks of them - who just do their job, damn well at that. They're both joys to see hit.

I think there is a distinction though between being aloof and just being a dink. In both cases you don't care what anyone thinks but it would seem to be different.

Worry about? I'm not fucking worrying about anything. I just don't like the way Manny goes about his business, is that ok with you?

That's not quite how you phrased it earlier, which is the post I was responding to.

"Piece of Shit" tells me you're more conerned about this than most people.

Edit: and also "Probably the reason baseball is really losing me as a fan. Oh well, he'll continue to get paid because he can hit.." expresses the importance you have put on this. That's what I was responding to.

I'd argue that Big Papi has been equally good.. and Manny's hitting didn't win games 2-4.. but whatever.

POS might have been a bit harsh, but at the time that ticked me off.

manny doesn't play well in middle america

It just frustrates me when someone who is as good a hitter as Manny is has to do shit like that.

I don't care how he looks, dresses, talks to the media, or how his relationship with the team is.. what I do care about is how he plays the game of baseball.

better then 98% of anyone else in the game, regardless of his antics

Hilarious.

And I love what Beckett said about his ex-girlfriend. Totally called that. They probably miscalculated as front office folk usually do. It's like when Chuck Finley played for the Indians and that team played a Whitesnake song that had a video that featured his ex-wife and he got shelled or something and the White Sox had to apologize.

Beckett is pretty f-ing clutch and so, if the Indians thought they were being clever, clearly they miscalcuated.

Nice, you'd do fine as a BoSox GM!

Wow never thought I could get fired up about a series with the INDIANS! But, this has me ready to get game six on. Shit they should make it a doubleheaeder! I didn't think to much until the Indians got cocky and such.

http://www.chroniclet.com/2007/10/19...eam-wont-fail/

What'd he say? I missed it.

Oh come on. I really doubt the Indians had Danielle Peck come in to "distract" Beckett. If the Red Sox did something like this, Red Sox Nation would be beside itself with glee.

and RedSawx/Pats fans wonder why everyone hates them and their teams...

He thanked the Indians for flying one of his friends to the game and letting her watch it for free.

Legitimate question - is there anyone people would take over Beckett in a playoff game at this point? He may or may not have deserved to win the Cy Young award this year, but it seems his mentality is perfectly suited to the postseason vs. certain other pitchers who wilt under pressure.

Can't wait for tonight. If we lose throwing an over the hill 40yr old out against the best pitcher in the AL, so be it, and if we win that's even better. Although Westbrook in Game 7 scares me for some reason - probably because he's the type of pitcher we struggle against, first pitch strikes and all forcing us to change our approach at the plate.

And for the 2nd time this thread and 9th time this postseason, start Jacoby Ellsbury. WTF are you waiting for Francona.

Yeah, no reason to get up just because it's the ALCS.

SI

Speaking of dreaming about being in the ALCS, the Royals hired Trey Hillman yesterday. Anyone with any thoughts there (other than he was mentioned in ESPN.com's article as "Yankee mangerial candidate" as his reason we should know him :mad:)? A friend of mine has already ordered a Nippon Ham Fighters hat :D

SI

Can you can over this angle for 1 day? Jesus.

The obnoxious Indians fans thought this was over at 3-1. The obnoxious Rockies fans think the World Series will be a cakewalk.

90% of your posts in this thread are this tone - can't you start another thread so we can talk about the ALCS/World Series/Off-season stuff in here?

:D

That's just awesome.

There's actually a fair amount of history between the two teams, for those who have memories prior to 2004.

Ya, since the Wild Card started, the Indians, not the Yankees, are actually the Red Sox' most common playoff opponent. (And some of those series were very memorable)

Maybe Galaril is a newer fan, I don't know, but I just get tired of the dime-like antics in every Patriots/Red Sox thread, especially now when I see Indians and Rockies fans even more cocky.

Not a new fan and I am well aware of some of rivalrish type situation we have had going all the way back to the 1948 season when the Indians spoiled a chance for the only all-Boston World Series by winning a one-game playoff against the Boston Red Sox . I have been a Sox fan for 31 years going back to 1976. No pink hats in my closet;) My family have been season ticket holders for over 22 years. I hadn't actually noticed the Rockies fans being arrogant or cocky. The couple of dozen people I know out in Denver were all humble and just happy to be in the big show.

Apparently he's one of those rare managerial candidates. He's intelligent. Here are some things posted about him in another forum:



He has been a big advocate of the big inning - drawing walks and hitting home runs. Then he got to Japan and found a team that didn't do that well. So he adjusted to small ball and it worked really well. Basically, he doesn't adhere strictly to either philosophy, but will do whatever it takes to win with the personnel he has. I love guys like that. He seems to be willing to try new things - to think outside the box, and doesn't seem to adhere to any "book."

He seems to command respect among players. He doesn't dole out playing time according to personalities, but according to results. He is meticulous about studying the best way to use a bullpen.

I can't think of a much better available candidate the Royals could have chosen.


Interestingly enough, Hillman won his title by incorporating certain Japanese ways into his management style.

The 45-year-old Texan had gone through his first three years managing the American way with unsuccessful results.

"It was clear that what I was doing wasn't working," Hillman said. "So I asked my players and coaches for suggestions. First, they told me they wanted longer practices -- no more of this half-day routine, in camp. So, against everything I believed, I kept them there until 5 p.m., working on defense, among other things.

"They also wanted more bunting, which is typical for Japan, but went against my big-inning offensive philosophy. But again I said, 'OK,' because this time we had the pitching."

That season, Hillman's Fighters set a new club record for sacrifices, triple the number of the year before, and the entire outfield won Golden Gloves.

With the help of a solid mound corps, led by 20-year-old sensation Yu Darvish, and a spacious home park, the Sapporo Dome, Nippon Ham had its best won-loss record in 46 years.

At the end of the season, an NHK news announcer lauded Hillman for understanding the Japanese way, saying, "Hillman-san is the first American manager ever to make the switch from besuboru to yakyu."

Given the viewing audience, it was praise of the highest sort.

Fair enough - and while I'm not in Boston anymore, this does seem to be the most-hyped non-Yankee playoff game at Fenway since maybe the 1990 ALCS (not including the '04 world series), so I think your previous comment about getting up for "Cleveland" made sense to me.

And I don't particularly think that Rockies and Indians fans are obnoxious - I just the things they say and express are no different than what Red Sox fans say, and only the latter gets a label. (Usually from depressed fans of small-market teams).

Fuck.

Still waiting for Victor Martinez to finish rounding the bases.......If that was Manny the announcers would still be talking about it.