I know you meant "live" but I thought the typo was hilarious given the situation.

On this we agree!

I see so many similarities between this situation and Trump/GOP. One, as I mentioned in a post in the last couple of days, I feel like the Dems are largely falling in lock-step behind the guy who asserts he is the party right now, just like the GOP and Trump. You see some party people dissenting and a couple of higher-ups throwing out quasi-critical statements as trial balloons, but nothing's happening without Biden taking that step. They are powerless to remove him.

And two, on that point, Biden has made so many statements that he's staying in and chiding "the elites" (sound familiar?) for trying to force him to step down that he's now doubling down on his position and acting defiant about it. He's made it such that it would be a total embarrassment to him to step aside, and people don't want to embarrass him as the final act of his political career.

The only way it happens is if he has a McConnell Moment on video to add to what we've already seen and is forced out by polling and/or a critical mass of party momentum - something where he can hide behind the excuse of a newly-discovered medical issue or whatever excuse they want to use.

I actually think it's becoming more likely that he drops out. More Ds in congress will come out with calls to drop now that the NATO summit is over, especially if his press conference goes poorly tonight. Seems like he's losing big donors. Harris is being polled as a replacement. I've never thought Harris was a great national candidate but she can reconsolidate the Dem base and puts the age and fitness question back on Trump. The ABC poll out today had her up 49-46 vs Biden down 46-47.

You're certainly not wrong, but how trash is his legacy going to be if he's loudly defiant for 5 months and then loses? He has to thread the needle for those five months AND win the presidency (to say nothing about actually serving those 4 years as well) to come out of this with an untarnished legacy.

Of course, Biden's legacy shouldn't be anyone's primary concern in this case, but it is darkly fascinating to watch that window narrow in real time.

It is striking to see the similarity between Biden and Trump in all this. Everything is fake news, including the polls. The elites (as if he isn't the most elite) are out to get him. Namecalling people who don't show him unconditional support. And an almost cult-like response from his most diehard supporters. Makes me wonder if this is just the new norm for politicians in trouble.

I don't think he'll drop out. He's way too big of a narcissist for that to happen. And his son likes the perks and his wife likes getting fancy magazine photoshoots. It would require a McConnell moment like you mentioned or worse.

AP got a hold of a memo and it sounds like the Biden campaign is going to concede Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia. Probably smart given the numbers for him, but means he has to win Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, and NE-2, to squeak out a win.

It also seems like Senators in tough races are desperately trying to distance themselves. Tester and Brown today more or less came out saying they want no part of Biden.

At this point it feels like the Presidency is lost and it's now just up to the Democrats whether they care about keeping the Senate or re-taking the House.

I'm sure the hindsight is going to be, Harris or anyone else you put up against Trump would have lost worst than me. Another one of those definitive statements that can't be proven (like Trump's, if I had been President, Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine comment)

Biden is going to drag down the whole ticket. The GOP will have full control along with the courts and it will be game over.

How trash is it now? Spent 4 decades in the Senate and ended up being on the wrong side of almost every single major issue during that time. Has had a pretty crummy Presidency where it appears the last couple years were late Reagan where his dementia is hidden from the public.

Feels like if he continues down this path to hand Republicans and Trump full control over the government, he'll go down as one of the worst politicians in American history. Not Buchanan bad, but up there.

Good luck, Joe.

Hoping for a first legit step in your comeback. Personally, I think the odds are against it but knock it out of the park.

A lot of people seem to think this means it's going to be JD Vance as the VP.


Just a moment...

Here's the problem - if he knocks it out of the park, what does it matter if in a month or 7 weeks or 3 months he has a bad appearance or two? Then the same questions come back (assuming they ever go away), but we're that much closer to the election.

Biden staying in presumed he doesn't just knock his next appearance out of the park, but ALL of them until November. And that still leaves open the question, OK but what about 4 more frickin' years?!

Assuming the 2 real choices are Trump and Joe … Joe can be managed (or at least better than Trump). I’ll take a senile Joe over a current Trump. Joe has better support team around him.

I’m hoping for another Democrat right now. I’ll even take Kamala as she has a better chance than Joe (unless Joe does well in all remaining public events, causing his Stockdale moment to fade away as one ‘bad night’).

Nice Joe, very nice …

Even though he's a horrible person, I still sort of feel bad for Biden. My Dad has dementia too and I can't imagine putting him in front of cameras like that and just being humiliated over and over. It tells you how rotten that whole family is for keeping him in the race. Just can't imagine doing that to a loved one.

POTUS 2024 - Biden vs Trump - General Election Discussion
 

Nvm

To play the devil's advocate, that is the kind of verbal gaffe that he has always had issues with from stuttering, and he did correct it right after.

After watching the video, the mistake is less important than the realization that this reaction will follow every future mistake. The narrative is baked in. Trump can't be the focus of the election if Biden is still running.

He just called Kamala Vice President Trump. We're pretty close to him just calling himself President Trump.

You know for a guy who has dementia, he has a better understanding of foreign policy than Trump has ever had.

He probably knows more with the dementia but his foreign policy has been worse. Like the one part of his brain that still works is the one that says kill as many brown folks as you can.

I didn’t watch the press conference. I’m assuming Fox is saying he was worse than the debate and msnbc is saying he was sharp as a tack.

It was somewhere in between. A couple gaffes but much better than the debate. Showed pretty good command of the foreign policy questions. He should have been doing more of these. If he's going to stay in then do townhalls where voters ask questions.

Besides the creepy smiles, the random whispering, and the sudden outburst that seemingly came out of nowhere about guns, he was definitely better than the debate.

Calling Kamela “Vice President Trump” that went uncorrected was not a good look, naming off the countries in the South Pacific (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and Australia) was corrected when he stopped and said, “wait, I already said Australia”, although outside of Okinawa, I’m not sure 99% of Japan would be considered the South Pacific. But he did realize he said Australia twice, so that was good. Concluding the conference by telling Americans to listen to Donald Trump after the reporter asked if Biden was concerned that Trump had already called him on out on social media for calling the vice president, “Vice President Trump” was an odd retort.

Pandering to the Muslim NPR woman by saying Israel has been awful and it’s because they are most conservative war cabinet ever then back tracking and saying he supports Israel was confusing.

Saying he needs to get out more and be more active and then saying he needs to pace himself more and then blamed his staff for “adding stuff” to his calendar was also confusing.

So was his hardline of not speaking to Putin until Putin changed his ways (which I admired the strength in that statement) and then droning on for a bit and saying he would speak with anybody including Putin was also sending mixed signals.

And of course the numerous lost trains of thought that ended with “well anyways” was tough to watch.

But honestly, with the civilized conduct at the event, the comfort of answering questions from a preselected list of reporters, and not having an adversary like Donald Trump present made this a much better experience for him than the debate.

Biden is done, he will lose. Even if he does better the headlines are calling Kamala Trump etc... He will continue to have those sort of gaffes that continue to decline hos # of voters.

Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump ratify a historic peace accord pic.twitter.com/tTiVwi2WmI

— BuccoCapital Bloke (@buccocapital) July 12, 2024

Exactly. Thats what will trend. He is done done done

It's always something we can dig deeper on; of course that requires both parties being willing to do that, but even people with wildly divergent views can have productive conversation if both are willing to engage with the facts.

In terms of enthusiastic Trump voters, one thing you hear a lot from them at least in terms of my interactions is wild exaggerations, both pro in favor of Trump and anti in criticism of Biden. Take inflation, where it'll be stated that the cost of living is twice what it was when Biden took office, or that the price of something specific has doubled, or whatever. They tend to kind of ... shut up when you demonstrate that no, that isn't actually the case. I'm not saying I expect them to be convinced to not vote Trump or anything, but you just have to start on engagement with the facts.

Another example in your case are things like - I don't know if this is still your stance, but you've posted in the past that you find the official numbers about how many people died from COVID to be absurd, even though they are demonstrably true. So at a certain level, when somebody makes claims about abuse/authoritarianism/whatever, they are either willing to back those up with facts, or they aren't. And if they're not, there's nothing to be done about the disconnect.

Biden is on the record now as saying Trump is qualified to be president. So there is that. Common ground?

Its just impossible with some though. My wife has worked at a hospital for 10+ years, ive worked in the public school system for 15 years and a trump supporting family member with 0 experience in either somehow knows far more about both topics from watching fox news and reading the occasional conservative conspiracy theory article. Im sure this is not a unique case.

Oh that's 100% absolutely still the case.

The amount of misreporting done to support the hysteria was absurd. Get your head cut off in a car crash, test positive later, you too can be a "covid death."

This was covered plenty of times in mainstream media, link just from the first example I came to

The most demonstrable thing coming from Covid was that trusting the health care profession to be factually or intellectually honest is a fool's errand. Is there such a thing as "accessory to crimes against humanity"? If so, there's an awful lot of them who should be charged for aiding & abetting that modern day Mengele known as Fauci.

That's funny, I don't care who you like.

That is a pretty solid summary. I do think the "well, anyways" thing was my biggest concern. Not only did it get a little annoying, it was obviously a tick to cover for times he either got off track or lost the train of thought and had to refocus.

Yes, this board is truly on the Trump Train, how observant of you.

Anyone got the authority to remove this, uh, character?

Rammstein fan?

Cool. It has been a long time since we had someone go full on nuts on the board.

This is sad and pathetic behavior. especially from someone who has been supported by a lot of board members for 2 decades.

Be better.

Thanks Ben. What a child.

They're gonna take away your Heisman, Matt.

Unfair to those of us who missed the drama by mere minutes.

Didn't miss much, Pass. He just kept telling people they were banned and claimed the whole board was Trump supporters.

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So....I also banned that account from 2008ish that showed up at started trolling. Was that also MJ4H? I'm saying it's possible that it was other guy who went nuts this morning, though of course it's possible that they're the same guy.

Just a guess on my part.

Is it safe to say that you won't accept a banning?

Great. Now I'll have more time to travel the country attending Trump rallies.

So I rarely post here and mainly just lurk but I just want to say I enjoy the funny comments people come up with for this guy. I am not so quick witted.

Oh no.--You're not going to take away my banning!

Actually there have been a number of studies concluding that overall the numbers were undercounted. Such as here: New Analysis Reveals Many Excess Deaths Attributed to Natural Causes Are Actually Uncounted COVID-19 Deaths | SPH.

The number of official COVID deaths is substantially lower than the excess deaths (number of deaths above the typical amount before and after the pandemic), and some of that amount is traceable directly to COVID. So no, this absolutely is not a case of over-reporting hysteria.


See, this is a case of just taking a reasonable objection and running absolutely out of bounds with it. Fauci wasn't perfect at all, but calling him Mengele or saying health officials were in general dishonest is just ludicrous. There's just no justification for making such comments about an entire profession; people are individuals and stereotyping an entire group like that is neither accurate or helpful.

Okay, hard to believe but if true, crisis averted. Let a going senile Joe run (with a good supporting cast

Will there be beer tents?

This has been thoroughly looked into and is false. It largely stems from confusion on how coroners use death certificates amd how deaths are reported.

Here's a great article that explains it:

John Hopkins COVID study: Car crash deaths not reported as COVID | wusa9.com

Fauci definitely had some missteps along the way but we were also in uncharted territory and dealing with something we were wholly unprepared for.

He’s trailing in virtually every poll in every swing state. His only path to victory is the blue wall a PA and Michigan are trending down. His gaffes are going to continue to dominate the news cycle

If a demented feeble old man is doing this well against Trump in national polls imagine what anyone with a pulse would do.

Let’s be honest. Most people aren’t voting for Joe they are voting against Trump.

FFS, USA9.

The amount of facepalming I do when I read certain posts. And then to double-down by basically wanting people executed for your own misunderstanding of the facts... sheesh.

The venn diagram of people that think no one else can do their job but believe they know more about these things than medical professionals is one circle.

One of the Bulwark people has a column today about their observation of how many middle-aged men who support Trump have "Divorced Dude Energy," and then they saw a report that Trump does, in fact, hold a huge lead among divorced men - 56% versus 42% of divorced women, and that only 42% of divorced men identify as Democrats.

Interesting stuff. Sometimes anecdotal evidence bears itself out.

The DOW cracked 40K today. 4 years ago it was at 25K but again lets vote for the felon

And apparently a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. Good day for Joe

Agreed to a framework. Don't get too excited. It is like Lucy with the football.

Nice rebound for NASDAQ so far too

FWIW

S&P 500 Performance by President | MacroTrends

Really good news for the wealthiest people in the country but not sure how that helps your average American much on a daily basis.

It's good for anyone with a 401k, people expecting a pension, or small time investors like myself

This is why I don't understand the desire to keep him on the ticket. I get Joe wants the power, Jill wants her photoshoots, and his staff like running the country since Joe can't. But what's in it for everyone else?

Even if you like Joe and want him to win, you can't believe he is going to serve out those 4 years. Heck, I'd be astonished if he could make it another year without being forced to step down. So if it's going to end up with Kamala as President anyway, why not just have her be the nominee? She can give a speech and carry on a conversation.

It's good for them in 30 years when they retire I guess. And that's assuming that the President has any real control over the markets. Just feels weird when Democrats boast about it because the demographic that it plays to isn't the one you're trying to persuade to vote for you.

Seems like promoting things like employment rate, real wages, cost of goods/services/schools, etc would be much better for the average person. Some of the numbers look really good on those and should be touted if the President was mentally capable of doing that. I just don't think most people have a deep connection to the DJIA and it makes politicians look out of touch.

I do it more because Trump and his maga clowns constantly used it as a barometer for his success.

This is the part where I need to push back in the other direction. The medical profession writ large has not served America well in a number of areas going back well before Covid (opioid epidemic, bad dietary advice for decades/generations, overprescription of antibioitics to name a few) and there were some just plain wrong/false/exaggerated things that were said and done during the pandemic, not all of which are explainable by the 'look, it was a crisis and we were all just figuring things out' aspect. There's a whole lot of CYA that went on, and there was a lot of misinformation on the hysteria side - not as much as on the denial side, but still an awful freaking lot of it.

So while I'm not with Jon and I don't think I know more than the medical profession, just blind faith in whatever the medical experts say isn't wise either. The part that really confuses me is how we're supposed to be cynical about how 'Wall Street' or 'mega-CEOs' or Big Oil or whoever the bugaboo of the moment is and what they tell us - I agree with that - but if you're skeptical about what the massive medical profession says and want to attach a certain amount of 'let me see if that's really true' to it, it becomes a whole different thing. It's the same thing, the way I see it.

This would never happen because donors would revolt, but I think there is a good case that if you made Fain the VP or gave him a position in the cabinet, you'd have a good chance of winning PA, MI, and WI. Not to mention win back some working class voters that have been lost over the past few decades.

It was at 31000. Trump took it from 19,000 to 31,000. So it’s a close race to the finish, both parties over the last 8 years have done solidly here. Obama did pretty good. GWB has been the only one to have no help for the big boys of industry.

We still don't know more than medical professionals and pretending facebook is a better place for advice is stupid. I may ask for a 2nd opinion but I'm not going to pretend I have more knowledge than someone with 6+ years of education plus experience from there.

If you require surgery or you're having a medical emergency you're still going to a doctor, not facebook. People are willing to pretend to be an expert in a field they know absolutely nothing about while at the same time beating their chests about how no one else could do their own job.

He bailed them all out! Results aren't there in the price but all those banks and financial institutions would be bankrupt if it wasn't for the bailouts.

Not defending him by any means but that was a massive gift to wealthy people.

Trump has challenged Biden to a cognitive/aptitude test that they both take at the same time. Biden should absolutely accept. I see three outcomes:

1) Trump backs out.
2) Biden wins.
3) Trump wins.

1 and 2 are damaging to Trump and would revive Biden's campaign. 3 would mean it's time to bring on Kamala.

Of course, it has zero chance of happening.

Yep to Atocep.

Also there are plenty of issues and very valid criticisms of the medical system, but thats not even what this group even focuses on. Its covid was made up, vaccines are evil and doctors are forcing 5 year olds to have sex change operations.

Well, there are degrees. I haven't seen Jon say either one of those things for example.

Definitely.

I disagree with Jon on everything but I give him credit that he has formed his own opinions and is not a maga sheep.

But there is a large group of people who are part of that flock and have their views formed collectively.

The underlines the fallacy of the system. The focus of the medical profession should be patient outcomes not profits like the other industries you list.

Yes and that quite possibly is the biggest flaw with the system. Of course within that system I still think most individuals care about patient outcomes but they have to operate within the system.

Not to "both side" but sort of both sides. The damage of social media is there is a large number of "group think" and crazy conspiracy ideas that permeate the left and the right. There was a time when people would some times have a quirky idea or conspiracy, but now there are huge numbers that follow lock step in some nutty belief or another. It doesn't help there are governments, including our own, that are using huge financial resources and manpower to drive those conspiracies and ideas for their own interest. And that is not even conspiracy, but proven fact.

I agree with that. Most people in the medical profession are there to help and "do no harm." Unfortunately the main driver of medical economy is greed.

It's a wrap.

We all know Biden can't accept. It's a rare savvy move by Trump to keep the pressure on Biden.

He should say if Trump submits to a lie detector test he'll do it. Not that hard to parry.

I am all in on the competitive cognitive/aptitude test & I'd like to establish that as precedent. They should take that one we did in the 80s to figure out what job we'd be best at.

It's a wrap because Barkley says so?

"It's a wrap because Barkley says so?"

These are what are normally called "jokes." Normal, non-AI people often use them to make others laugh. Some day, your creators will get it installed in your program.

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As I've said before, it's not obvious if they are jokes or not.

I see many statements on these forums regularly that are meant seriously but if I just went by what I thought of it, I would think it's a joke. I don't presume, not because I don't think anything is ever funny, but because it is incredibly rude to presume that what someone may or may not be saying seriously is a joke and dismiss what they are saying in that way.

Yes, because the idea that someone seriously believes Charkes Barkley has the final determination whether the President of the United States runs for reelection or not is not offensive.

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Honest question. Are you on the spectrum? Lest anyone think I’m being offensive I have a son in the spectrum and some social interactions he just can’t grasp.

Honest answer: I don't know.

I did used to take a different approach, and if I thought something was posted as a joke, I took it that way. I have repented (I mean that literally) of that approach, as I saw the damage that approach was doing to other posters, and also saw that I didn't particularly enjoy having things I'd posted seriously dismissed as 'obviously trolling/joking' when it absolutely wasn't.


People can literally believe absolutely anything.

There are people who believe in the Q nonsense. There are people who believe the Earth is flat. Just take a look at Terrence Howard's 'manifesto' or whatever, which is 100% serious and includes the claim that 1x1=2. Howard is not an idiot, and he is not joking. He is simply wrong, but that doesn't mean the basic respect to take his theories/claims seriously isn't appropriate, just as much as it is appropriate for 'popular' or 'accepted' points of view.

Not just Barkley, but Stephen King, George Clooney AND Ashley Judd!

I didn't realize Ashley Judd! That does it. Biden is stepping down.
(This is sarcasm for the sarcasm impared)

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McConnell, Rand Paul, Thomas Massie all get their fair share of power/coverage, Beshear is being touted as a possible Biden replacement, now Clooney and Judd chiming in.

Not sure why KY seems to punch above its weight in national politics. And given the obesity here, that's a pretty tough task.

I took it in a joking, but similar way as Brian, I think. Not sarcastic like "oh it's still to care what Charles Barkley thinks" but more like "oh if even Charles Barkley thinks he's mentally unfit, that's really saying something" -- so still without seriousness, but maybe in a different way. I guess it just goes to show how many different interpretations there can be.

Gotta love the media: "Joe Biden avoids further gaffes at Detroit rally"

Which one was that, Saul Goode? I thought that might have been Sun Tzu.

Bernie realized he’s older than Joe.

Bernie should be retiring as well. Last I checked, VT had a GOP governor. Plus, you know, make room for the next generation, Sanders....