I thought the story around selling the used panties was the major story line of the season along with the bad guy coming to get Alex?

Might be a fun separate thread to talk about, but I came away from it thinking it was a very slanted view, that Avery probably still did it but they planted a shit ton of evidence to get the conviction. The series makes a very obvious case but they don't really explain why, who or how somebody could have killed her and got the remains onto the Avery property. If somebody did do that and got him to go down for it with all the coincidental timing they are an absolute criminal mastermind, and no offense it doesn't seem like there are many of those living around there :D

The nephew though, when they basically showed that his own attorney worked against him to get a phony confession that was complete garbage and is either impossible or nonsensical, and they won't give him a new trial - that was tough. I don't have a lot of sympathy for Avery because I think he did it, but I do think Dassey got a really rough deal. Just a confused, borderline deficient, socially awkward 16 year old who the police played like a fiddle and likely had nothing to do with it at all

I don't know who killed her, and indeed the series (or Avery's defense) never explained who did. The problem for me is that it's impossible to say who did kill her now because of how police handled the investigation. They outright lied multiple times in very suspicious ways and it seems pretty clear to me that they planted evidence at least twice - maybe three times.

I agree with the defense lawyers in that police did believe it was Avery. That doesn't excuse what they did - which should have been to sabotage their own investigation. Didn't turn out that way, though.

IMO three of those police officers should be in prison.


Yep, this was to me the toughest part of the whole series. I agree that Avery could be guilty, but Dassey on the other hand was completely innocent, borderline retarded, and completely railroaded by the investigators in their efforts to stitch up Avery, as the video shows. Sickening to the stomach to see that.

I think from what outside reading I've done that Avery was likely guilty, but still found the slant the documentary makers had of making him seem innocent important. I think the Police clearly always thought Avery guilty, even after he was cleared. So the temptation to make sure he didn't get away with another one (in their minds) was too great and so they took steps to make sure it happened.

And then you have Brendan who is a pretty textbook example, I think, of a coerced confession.

I don't think they believe he is still guilty of the initial rape charge. I think they believe he's a piece of sh*t who deserved to be in jail anyway (which may or may not be true - didn't exactly get a picture of him as a wonderful person back before the rape charge), who was now making them all look bad.

I think they do believe he did the murder (and he may have), and felt like that was the justification for why it was OK for him to have been locked away for all those years despite being innocent of that particular crime.

Regardless of what they thought and whether or not they are right, he should not be in prison for that murder because of how criminally dishonest they were in handling the investigation.

At least two cops said just that, during both the deposition and the later murder trial. Including the Deputy Chief who for some reason not only did the sketch of the rape suspect (maybe that's something that position does in smaller departments?) but then completed a composite of the sketch and Avery's booking shots and framed it.

I'm not sure if he did it or not. I'd lean towards guilty because I think, even with the police planting evidence, it seems like such a stretch to think that someone killed her elsewhere and brought her remains onto his property and dumped them in a spot where he also happened to have had a bonfire that night. But those questions maybe could have been answered or at least cleared up if the police ever considered other suspects. It seems like a lot of people were around that property and could have just as easily killed her.

Putting together though the likely evidence planting, so much of the prosecution's story not making sense, and a complete lack of physical evidence and there's no way he deserved to be convicted.

What happened to the nephew was so much worse though. That William H. Macy looking motherfucker should be serving life, not to mention his investigator who kept crying about the ribbon.

IMO, they said that both to justify the stance they had/have, but mostly to cast further doubt on Avery.

I'm a lot less interested in what the cops said as opposed to what they did, because I have absolutely no faith in their integrity based on what I've seen in the 10 episodes.

Agree that the nephew is the biggest tragedy though. My mum spent 15 years working with people with learning disabilities and I met a handful of guys who remind me of him. I think any one of those people would have given very similar answers under the same circumstances.

I think the Deputy Chief said that it was the only time a sketch of his had been used in a criminal trial so I'm going to suggest that wasn't the norm. And Logan's points are why I think that there were real numbers of officers in that department who never bought Avery's innocence for the rape.

cops are guilty, planted the evidence. Steve Avery is guilty, raped and killed her. Brendan is a sweet dummy, who was severely manipulated by all sides. Not guilty.

To start, the weasel, sleaze bag lawyer that first 'represented' Brendan, along with the sleaze bag investigator should both be brought up on charges.

To cut to the rest of the chase. I read in one of the posts how the show is slanting your view point. That might be true, but the media does the exact same thing and to argue that point is silly. People try to sway/slant your thoughts and viewpoints on everything all of the time.

While I do believe that Steven Avery is perhaps a bit of a screw up and possibly a creeper, I do not believe he raped or murdered the girl.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around some things:

1) nothing at all in the house/trailer/garage beyond a possibly planted bullet and key. This counters any possible false confession from Brendan and even the Prosecutions own statement in Brendan's trial that something happened in the Bedroom. There was no blood splatter at all in the garage from where the shooting or cutting of the neck supposedly happened.
2) blood in the back of the RAV belonging to Teresa. There would be no reason at all for Steven to have placed her in the car if he did kill her in the garage. No blood trail anywhere.
3) the blood vial. While the FBI stated they did not find any EDTA, that didn't exclude it wasn't there. Remember, they clearly only stated they didn't find any, in perhaps a faulty and outdated testing method they hadn't performed in years. Just because someone is color blind doesn't mean colors don't exist.

Who did it then? I have theories. Mine coincide with a couple others on the www. I formed my own theory in about episode 6 or 7. I do think someone else much closer to Teresa killed her and police took advantage of that and acted on it.

I also think this show/documentary showed the massive flaw and class system/restrictions in our legal system. It is a shame.

In the end though, I was not convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that Steven was guilty.

2 theories really.

The one theory I was leaning towards was that ex-boyfriend and/or roommate. The ex-boyfriend stated something along the lines of fishing for Teresa's password and figuring it out, but he also stated in doing that, he made up a user name. That didn't sit well with me for some reason. I might have misheard it, but wouldn't a username already be created? Why make one up? Also, why are you still that heavily involved in her life and that friendly with the roommate? I understand having a 'relationship' with your exes, but most exes don't. That is why they are exes. Also, why didn't the roommate report anything for 3 days? Something just didn't sit well with me in all that.

The main theory I considered is Brendan's brother and the other guy, Scott, I think? Mostly Scott. The two guys that worked really hard to match each other's alibi when they were going hunting and coming back from the hospital. I think the blood (Teresa's own blood) in the RAV, was a big thing for me in the end. She was killed someplace else and brought to the final destination point. Not only that, someone had to know a bonfire was in place and what to do and where to do it. The possible planting of evidence is an issue, but in the end, the one key point to me was her own blood in her RAV. That made zero sense and there would be no reason at all to put her in the RAV if the murder was done on that property, just to take her back out again. No other blood anywhere on the property/garage/house, nothing. It was shady. Scott (or whatever his name is) one comment that was quoted at the end of "he got what he got comin'" or something like that was interesting to.

Also the way the vehicle was hidden on the property was a joke. I know Steven Avery wasn't the smartest man, but come on..