I take the point about the issues, but since I wasnt aware of them as I was not historically involved, I can do nothing except push people in the right direction for patch2.

Very unfair. When the reports were uploaded we tackled a ton of issues raised and got these fixed in the intial release. I'm just sad we didnt get this one for you.

I know of a lot of projects in progress (and I personally gave them big headstarts), much of the reason behind the slowness is the fact that it's an all new game. I know of roster sets, facepacks and even an application to edit the commentary XML.

Some websites should be springing up soon too

Good grief.

I just managed a game where we rallied from down 8-1 to get to within 8-4.

Relief pitcher surrenders 4 runs to give the Padres a 12-4 lead. We get the 4 right back in the bottom of the 4th. They go up 13-8 in the top of the 6th, we tie it in the bottom of the 8th, and win it 14-13 in the 11th inning.

14 runs, 19 hits, and 11 walks.

My leadoff hitter? 0-7 with no walks. Poor bastard.

Sounds like someone needs his role re-evaluated

Has anybody seen any weirdness like what's being registered for SS Valladores, who went 5-5 with a walk (no sacrifices of any kind; I checked), and yet left four men on base?

His day, if anybody's interested and can maybe figure out what the game is counting here:

bottom of the 2nd: singles Revell to 3rd
bottom of the 3rd: singles home DeLeon and Lyall, Hockridge to 2nd
bottom of the 4th: walks home Lyall, Hockridge to 3rd, Revell to 2nd
bottom of the 7th: leadoff single
bottom of the 8th: singles home DeLeon, Hockridge to 3rd, Revell to 2nd
bottom of the 10th: leadoff single

Heh - you'll have to forgive me then if I'm doing a clumsy job as 'service rep' isn't anything at all to do with my 'real job' which is development related (I'm one of the geeks who is hidden away from customers normally ;) ), I'm just a tad over passionate about our games so tend to get involved in discusions about them and try and help people out where possible.

Yer doin good Marc. Enthusiasm for your products can be contagigous :)

Looks like it counted whether or not players that were on base reached home when we batted. That can't be right, although now that I think about it, I'm not sure how this stat is counted. I'm guessing a batter is only credited for leaving runners on base if they record an out without advancing the runners.

I dunno, that board seems like a pretty huge whinefest about the game. I mean, there are positive threads too, but I hate going over there because all we have there are 100 of the same thread about how "unplayable" the game is. It's like, ok, we get it. Now, shutup and go play something else and wait for the patch or log new reasons or something.

At least here, its just one long thread, rather than 18 threads about it. I mean, seriously.

Here's the thing. By my count, he came up to bat with a cumulative total of ten men on base, and drove in 4 of them. That leaves 6, but the game says he had 4 LOB. The only thing I can figure is that subsequent guys who score who were on base for him get removed from his LOB total.

I'm going to go back through the game log and see if that's true.

In looking at his performance with guys on base...

bottom of the 2nd: singles Revell to 3rd
Revell out at home on a safety squeeze play

bottom of the 3rd: singles home DeLeon and Lyall, Hockridge to 2nd
Hockridge stranded at 2nd following F9 and 5-3 putouts

bottom of the 4th: walks home Lyall, Hockridge to 3rd, Revell to 2nd
Hockridge and Revell score on McClean's single

bottom of the 8th: singles home DeLeon, Hockridge to 3rd, Revell to 2nd
Hockridge scores on Bradshaw's single, Revell scores on Serrano's fielding error

So of the six guys he didn't drive in, four scored anyway. Only two were put out.

The only possible explanation here is that the game isn't counting the guys who were put out against him, but IS counting the guys who scored as having been LOB. Which is also retarded.

Every definition I've found suggests that individual LOB is based on how many guys are on base when the batter makes an out - which I take to mean while he's the batter, not a subsequent baserunner. Even so, the only time Valladores was put out on base, he *was* the lead baserunner.

In no situation did he record an out with anybody on base ahead of him, so why is he being charged with men LOB?

Are you telling me that you didn't do any research into the product you are responsible for overseeing/marketing/representing (not sure how you fit into all of this, forgive me)?? You didn't check out any of the previous versions?? You didn't check out the community...either at the old OOTP boards...SI boards...or, yes, even this one?? You didn't sit down with Markus and discuss what he had in mind for this version and how he could make it better than previous versions??

Far be it from me to tell you how to do your job, but as vocal as you are here about OOTP2006 you should know most, if not all, of the versions of OOTP inside and out by now and none of the issues that are being brought up now should be news to you. So, your plea of ignorance on the history of the game doesn't hold water with me.

Sorry Marc, the service rep comment was meant for Marc Duffy.

Yup and then you have the fact that. . . . . . .

OK. What else can be said on this that hasn't been?

1) The game was released in bad shape and many people on this board find the game unplayable. (me included)

2) Some of these bugs have been here version after version. It's ridiculous they've slipped this long. It's frustrating.

3) With a two year window between the last release and this one, we should have seen a much more polished game.

Some people, through past experiences and because of the three things listed above, have given up on the game. I can't argue with you. I think you have every right to be pissed and every right to want to move onto something else. I see the reason for bitter dissapointment.

OK, now that's out of the way, what's Marc Duffy supposed to do? Everything is in the past and cannot be changed. We can have a variating on the same post for another 25 pages and it still won't change what's happened.

I can assure you Marc is listening to the frustrated people and is interested in fixing the long standing issues. That doesn't mean the game is going to get fixed to my satisfaction or yours. I'm not going to make a promise as to how well the game will play at the end of this process. I can only say that SI seems pretty damned interested in making it right and as its Si's first go with the game, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not sure there is really anymore that can be said until the next patch is released. We all know the history at this point. We all know where each other stand. Nobody is moving for the next couple of weeks at least, and some may never move. I don't even know what I'm rambling about now.

I guess the easiest way to say it is I'm holding off on my rips until patch 2 is released. If I'm not happy, I'll say so and move on. It won't be the first time I've made a poor PC game purchase and it will certainly not be the last. On the other hand, I think there is a chance many of the issues will be cleared up. (please, don't debate that point, maybe it's false optimism, maybe I'm insane, maybe I'm a stupid dolt, I'm ok with any of those descriptions)

I'm not giving up either, as critical as I've been. I just think it's more like a 4 patch fix, and am not getting my hopes up for July.

I have given up most hope for this years version, but I am surprised to say Bill Abner, well respected baseball game reviewer for years has not:



http://sportsgamer.blogspot.com/

If you think the major AI issues can get fixed, Bill is dead on.

If you think the issues can't or won't be fixed because of past history, Bill is insane and should order PureSim so he can get on with a solid career.

A little surprised myself, especially from Bill... but SI will either make him a genius or make him move on.

I'm glad they got a headstart. I was just surprised that no MLB rosters were out yet. I know in previous versions we'd have 5 out by now. Are there any restrictions for those who want to get a headstart for future versions or do most people get what they need?

I talked with Markus a lot before he started work on this version and have helped him a fair bit with the technical side of the game (ie. using our internal classes etc.) however I made the decision to leave the actual gameplay and design largely to Markus - Ive suggested a few things but the final decisions on such things have been entirely down to Markus.

Why you say? - simply put I have only limited baseball knowledge and have only similar knowledge of his fan base, I've followed OOTP for around 4 years now and been impressed by Markus's design & development skills and how he's handles his games growing popularity .... hence I thought it best to allow him to get on with what he's good at rather than inject any inappropriate soccer stuff into the game.


As I've indicated I've followed OOTP from the outside for several years now and I'll happily admit that some of the issues people are indicating are 'old' are new to me, when you follow a game from the outside it is unfortunately impossible to obtain the same level of information as you do for a game you are involved in developing and immersed in the community of.

I apologise for any lack of knowledge on SI's part, it isn't for want of trying ..

The best thing imho for us to do is what we're attempting, simply monitoring feedback and using this to help guide Markus in his work. Obviously we'd all have preferred this release to be absolutely problem free, but life doesn't always work how you'd want ...

Hope this helps,

Marc

I'd love to be able to tell one of my customers that. Would go over really well...

why not?

FYI, they are going to remove the 14 day time limit from the demo with the next patch.

Good news.

Yeah, it seems as though the AI needs to be completely rewritten. That's not a patch.

we should start having a pool on when patch 2 would be released (and no, Marc or Marc can't enter the pool). My vote: July 14.

Good call. Two weeks isn't enough time to really evaluate a game of this depth, especially if you can only play six months.

Yeah me too.

I assume this is more fact than fiction.

I tell my customers that all the time.

I'm not usually a person who whines about games, and can generally stand even the flawed ones, but this was the biggest waste of my gaming money ever. I am extremely annoyed and disappointed by this joke of a game.

OOTP2006 doesn't just need a face-lift - It needs a heart transplant.

I had planned on finally buying FM my next paycheck (today), but there's no way I'm supporting a company that allows products such as OOTP ever see the light of day.

I don't know what kind of customers you and Draft Dodger have but if I told my customers or business partners that when I completely dropped the ball I'd be looking for a new job.

Well this goes back to me not thinking they dropped the ball and you thinking they did.

Anyone that thought this game was going to be perfect and have no major flaw that needs to be fixed in a patch, was kidding theirself. It's about time people adjust their expectations when it comes to the Sports Sims, because there is always the need for a patch that fixes a major flaw, from my experiences.

You're missin out.

Same here. Big Four accounting firms don't like that..........at all.;)

[quote=dangarion]It's about time people adjust their expectations when it comes to the Sports Sims, [quote]

You are right. It's about time that we all stop buying these games until the developers actually deserve our purchase.

I can tell you I've learned my lesson.

My expectations were just that this game would be better than the last. This one isn't.

Is there any summarization anywhere of the major flaws with this game as it stands now without the second patch?

You're joking right?

If you went to a restaurant where you ordered you food and always had to wait another hour after your meal came so the kitchen could re-make the sauce, would you lower your expectations, keep giving them your business and go on with it?

I don't know why we're supposed to lower our standards for games because the industry standard has been to release a 3/4 finished game and then patch it a few times in a few months to make it the game they promised. At some point, the consumers are going to have to take a stand if they ever actually want that game.

sum-mar-i-za-tion

Bill Abner finally sees the light with the AI.

I love Markus as a developer, but I think he is having a mid-career slump.

Up until about v5 I think Markus was hitting HR after HR. The game kept getting better and he was quick to address the problems.

then it appears that Markus was bored with the straight forward process and tired to elaborate on OOTP without addressing some of the core issues that remained.

First we had the .400 merge - I don't think I would classify this as Markus's fault, but it was the first time he felt the need to "merge" and not stay solo. This of course didn't work out to well.

ITP - very interesting in concept, very thin in actual game play, and then completely and totally abandoned.

H2H - the big K with the bases loaded in the world series, promised, not delivered, promised in patch, not delivered, promised in update, not delivered and then completely swept under the rug. The funny thing about H2H is I doubt I would have even used it that much, it was the way that is was handled that I thought was so poor. And now the official stance seems to be that it was all just a bad dream and never really happened.

6.5 - hey I would line Makus's pocket with gold, I would easily pay twice what the games cost - put 6.5 was a 20 patch IMO. and almost EVERY feature that we paid 20 for in 6.5 was left out of 2006.

Merger with SI - jury is still out, but the bottom line is the merger has been one of the best reasons why the game has gone from a MLB sim to a world sim - some may view that as a good thing, I think most (the core customer base of MLB players) do not.

Missing opening day release - yes software should be released when it is ready and tested and all that. But outside of cash flow reason, 6.5 should have been skipped and 2006 should have been done and completed in time for opening day. again if you are looking at it from a world viewpoint opening day is meaningless, if you are looking at it from a MLB standpoint - it is vital.

2006 - some nice things, but essentially this game has changed directions - v3-6 were some of the best games I ever played - 2006 will sit mostly unused next week when Head Coach comes out.

Here is to hoping that Markus refocus and gets back to the core of what made OOTP such a great franchise.

Seriously, you're really starting to sound like one of those guys who whines about everything. Is the game in sad shape ... yeah, you've made your point.

But Marc V comes on here, and is very honest. He says he apologizes if there were things that were wrong in previous versions that weren't fixed but that regardless they are commited to improving the game.

To me, that's the kind of stand up statement that I can appreciate. I mean would you prefer the alternative - SI to come here and say the game is great, there's nothing wrong and there's only a minority complaining? If so, go to the maximum football sight and enjoy yourself.

I think we'd all prefer that the game was fixed before release. It wasn't. But all the whining in the world isn't going to change that. If you don't want to buy OOTP again, fine. But it really is childish when a developer comes on here and apologizes and you still find need to bash them. :rolleyes:

That's no apology. That is utter bullshit. An apology would read something like:

We are sorry for releasing a game that hasn't met our pre-release marketing and has fallen well short of our customer's and our expectations. We will continue to do everything possible to correct this as quickly as possible. Thanks for your continued interest and patience.

I might be whining, but I'm not the one who released a piece of shit game. If you go to the OOTP boards you can already see that SI is quick to embrace those that are positive about the game - anyone with any sense can tell you if you want to improve you need to listen to your critics, not your blind supporters.

IMO people here are getting WAY too rosy about 6.5 and just want to bash 2k6. There are huge AI issues, I agree. These issues have been with the game for a long time and it's kind of curious that so many of you only calling the game unplayable because of these now, but that's another story. To say that this somehow makes the game a step backwards from 6.5 is ludicrous. 6.5 had a broken *game engine*. You couldn't adjust for eras very well at all, ballparks were tied to the pitcher's handedness rather than the hitters, and lefty/righty splits were all messed up as well. If I had to choose between a game that produced okay baseball and had AI issues and one that did okay with roster AI but had a messed up stat engine, I would take the former game every single time. I would then lobby to get that game's AI issues settled, but I sure as hell would not move back to the title that didn't care whether my team played in the Polo Grounds or Old Comiskey Park, or made leagues hit .320 if you adjusted HRs, walks, and Ks to deadball era levels and left everything else alone.

As for this "if you said this in my job you'd be fired" garbage, I also work in customer service. It's my job in many cases to break bad news to people. I'm sorry, but this is a world inhabited by humans. It's not perfect by any means. If I go into a restaurant and have to wait a long time to get something, I am 1000% more impressed if the staff comes out, explains what's going on, and apologizes than if they say "everything is going good." In fact, I will often give restaurants a "mulligan" on mistakes if they're polite and apologetic about them. If you're the kind of person who throws that politeness back into someone's face, then... well, I'm glad I'm not you, I guess.

uh, isn't that what we just got???

My thoughts exactly when I made that comment saying I say that all the time.

I think that's a big part of the problem. I think too many people are overrating 6.5. There may even be a fair amount of 2k6 underrating going on. As has been said before, there's a great framework in place -- now the engine needs to be tightened up.
I see where you and dangarion are coming from, I think it was a poor choice of words from Marc that set the wrong tone. I work for an association and we make mistakes that impact our members from time to time. When that happens, I certainly appologize, explain the error and try to make it right.

But if I ever said, "but life doesn't always work how you'd want," I'd probably get punched in the face. The first time Mrs. kcchief19 and I went on a date, we went out for pizza and ordered a split pizza with two different ingredients on each side. They accidentally messed up the order and put the wrong combination of ingredients so both sides were incorrect. The server said we could have that pizza for free and they would make us up a correct pizza as fast as possible. Good answer. If she day said, "doesn't always work how you'd want," we would have asked to see the manager, left without paying for that abomination and never gone back.

I don't think that's what Marc meant and I think he's frustrated too. That's why when you're representating your company sometimes its better not to say anything or take a moment and think about it before reacting. It's an innocent mistake, but it eventually results in people just stacking one issue on to another and getting more frustrated than they need to be.

Yeah but I think comparing a computer game to going out to dinner is just way off base.

In some respects, I agree entirely with what you're saying. However, if this is what we expect, then EA should be apologizing with every release given their hopelessly overblown marketing machine. Sadly, this is the state of the sports game industry.

I think you're right. I'm as guilty as the next guy. I think dialing back the expectations a bit would be a good thing. When sports sims first started emerging in the market, they were so new and revolutionary that any flaws were easy to overlook. Now the bar moves forward so incrementally and expectations so great that any failing gets blow out of proportion.

That said, I think it's a two-way street. Developers need to be more realistic in promoting their products and releasing games when they're ready, not when they need to hit a deadline. Don't promote a feature list for a game unless you're already programmed the feature and know it works. Don't set a release date until the game is done, because if you miss the release date you're hosed and if you release a buggy game. Be honest with consumers and create realistic expectations.

Exactly! That's what I think to. That's why Shaun over at Pure Sim gets major points, he produces his game and allows the public to beta the game and get things worked out, so when it's launched it's a much cleaner product than a company that has an exclusive beta. But this is all part of the development process. Many games nowadays are unfinished when released. That's why there are such a thing as patches. Games like Half-Life, Quake, Battlefield all have been patched numerous times throughout their release to fix errors and improve gameplay, just like SI is doing with OOTP2006.

Maybe if it were a place where you could get a basic order, then the chef can keep coming out and fine tuning your meal every 10 mins to try and make it the best meal you've eaten.

That can happen with games like this, it can't happen in restaurants. I personally like when games are released, and then a large community of gamers can hack at it and help fine tune the game, adding pieces the game devs possibly missed or overlooked.

I'm not defending 2k6 though, i'm not really impressed with this specific release. It's not even really playable which is a big factor. When you launch an incomplete game that needs fine tuning, it should at least be playable from the start. (disclaimer: I know it's "playable" overall - ie it works, but there are some big features not working right or not there that make it unfun for many if you do play it)

Overall however, I like games that launch pretty fun games then improve them over time with feedback from fans and patches. It bothers me to see an xbox game released with obvious flaws yet little gets changed once it's launched.

Takes note of this and is very glad that virtual punches across the internet don't leave bloody noses.

On a more serious note if that line did offend anyone then I apologise for it.

Marc Duffy News for Patch 2.

http://www.ootpbaseball2006.com/news...ws=view&id=106

I really hope they put the ability to look at previous years stats from the roster screen. That alone is breaking the game for me, as silly as it sounds. I didn't realize how often I looked at previous year stats whenever doing pretty much anything.

Since they have splits and double splits, it would be great to not only look at previous years stats, but possibly even select a year.

This Year
Last Year
Last 3 Years
Career
--Select Year:
--2006
--2005
etc

Is the demo still on a 14 day limit?

The time limit of the demo will be fixed in the next patch, I believe.

I'd disagree. I know that there are a lot of the same bugs and AI garbage in 2006, but I think the game has taken a step back. There were a lot of things taken out of 6.5.

-No weather. Small to some but a nice touch.
-No one pitch managing. Yes, there is the F1 key, but that just sims the at-bat. The CPU can steal for you, etc.
-No bullpen warming up. Small again, but another area that gave more control to the user.
-Trading block/Finding out who you can get. I liked being able to see what a team had available for a certain player. I know some say that's unrealistic, but I also don't have 6 hours to trade my mediocre 2B because I have to make 300 trade offers till I figure out what a team wants. In real life teams make counteroffers and let you know what is available.
-Stars. Again, small, but also helped some of us who wanted to speed things up. Could have been a toggle on or off option for those who didn't want it.
-Player Value Toggle - This is one of the big ones for me. 6.5 allowed you to toggle how the CPU valued a player. Current stats, prior stats, 2 year old stats, and ratings. If a mediocre guy is having a monster year, he could get benched for a guy with higher ratings. I was able to resign a guy who hit .324 and had 40+ SB for next to nothing because his ratings weren't that great. This is also a reason why you'll hardly see a guy over 30 starting after simming a decade or two.
-Importing 6.51 seasons are pointless. Too much stuff is lost or altered. Hard to throw away a league you've been on for a year or two for a game that doesn't offer much more.

I can go on and on. A lot of the AI is now worse off than before because of the flexibility of the game. The game had trouble handling a 3 team minor league system and is having a tougher time handling the bigger systems now.

Yes, the game has new features. However, scouting guys in Zimbabwe or building some crazy league really was never that appealing to me. I like doing historical sims and playing out realistic MLB seasons. Many of the other new features don't work right and make it useless.

So yes, there are a lot of similar issues in the two games. But there are also a lot of old things that people liked that are missing now. It would be fine if the game took huge leaps and bounds in other areas, but it hasn't. Some more stats and international leagues aren't worth giving up those other things for.

I kind of agree. I actually think it started going downhill with the ITP game. He got overconfident and was dominating text based sims. I think one year he took a lot of time that would have been spent on OOTP and put it into ITP. ITP was a disaster IMO and I think it set him back a year in the development of OOTP. Other developers caught up.

I also think he needs to surround himself with guys who have good baseball knowledge and understand logic. I think he gets calls from a lot of the regulars for features like international leagues and other things that only a small percent care about, but take a lot of time.

I think it'd be worth it for them to hire someone with deep baseball knowledge who can just sim out leagues and give feedback on the logic. Not just roster AI, but in-game AI. I think the users expect more now and they just don't have the knowledge of the game to keep improving. It's time to turn to outside sources for that knowledge.

I think this will prove difficult. OOTP is Markus' puppy and will always be so. Asking someone to take over from a "baseball knowledge" point-of-view would be hard to do. In my dealings with him, Markus has always been a stand-up guy, but ultimately OOTP is his game. He's an excellent programmer who can design and implement very quickly. He's also very open to suggestions and concerns from the user community. However, I'm not sure it's feasible for him to take a step back and turn the high-level design of AI (as an example) over to someone else.

Pretty much my take. And precisely the bottom line why I believe there's no reasonable hope for it to ever improve.

I jumped in and bought 2006 on day one, and like many of you I am disappointed with the wacky AI and broken financial model. However, I'm really pining for some good, text sim baseball, something more realistic/detailed than what is offered by "MLB: The Show". I'd rather not fork out another $30 for OOTP 6.5 ($20 for 6.0 and $10 for 6.5), so I was wondering how OOTP 5 with catobase (I love detailed almanacs) compares to OOTP 2006. I know I could just download the free version and try for myself, but I was hoping one of you fellas could give me a quick opinion. Oh, and I might be open to Pure Sim as well if it garners a general FOFC seal of approval.

For what it's worth, I play OOTP5 every year. Right now, I am 2 months in on another career. Granted, I have only played this as a historical league with the lahman50 database. I view this game (and the other text sims that I lke) as a strategy game instead of a simulation. With the setup I've been using with OOTP5, it maskes some of the funny business to where I can concentrate on simming a month at a time and fully engage in my favorite parts of the game (trading - I think 5.11 has the best trade AI; drafting, free agency and pouring through the Almanacs). Ymmv.

A 3 year update. Fermin Jerrez hit .296, 26, 73 in year one (110 game season). After started year 2 with .263, 2, 14 (28 games), Jerrez went down with a Torn Anterior Cruciate Ligament and was lost for the season. We let him walk after the season, and he bounced back with a .333, 21, 91 year with another club.

Over the 3 years, we won 40, 51, and 47 games. It is taking quite awhile for our prospects to provide any help, and our owner is pretty tight with the wallet. Hopefully, we can break the .500 mark (55 wins) this season. I have still managed all of our games.

A summarization would take afew pages, was my point.:rolleyes:

In my current OOTP historical career, I noticed this for another team

I guess their GM/coach couldn't decide between the two. Then it got tired of doing that (probably because those two players were griping) and started messing with Wallace Cash

The sad thing is I don't know if your "current OOTP historical career" is from OOTP2 or 2006.

Oh sorry, it is from OOTP5.

Things like this would get the gripers to scream 'unplayable' but if you think about it, what are the net results of all of this? The team is charged $798,000 for the contract of Cash and with either Gernert or Lemon, they get a good hitter in the lineup. The AI, in its stupidity, does waste money because of this but that is easily fixed (by giving them cash at the end of the season).

He was being sarcastic because of the quality of the AI. Trust me, we all know you play OOTP5, you've reminded us about 10,000,000 times.

But I would hope that, by the 5th version (or later) of a game, you wouldn't have to resort to these kinds of workarounds. Its a very EA-esque type of thing to not fix, especially as a known problem from a couple years ago.

I agree with you but that seems to have been common for all of these games (except for FBCB perhaps): to do workarounds or house rules so you can get a more competitive AI. This game does the things I like very well which is why I keep playing it.

I really believe that a (baseball?) game can't do both very well (career sim vs coach sim), esp. from a small development shop. I can't articulate why but it seems to need to concentrate on one or the other.

Latest patch 2 fix list just posted

1.0.2
-----

- Fixed a series of memory leaks causing the game to perform badly the longer it was left open and simming
- Improved the memory footprint of the game when handling large amounts of data
- Improved loading time and game speed
- Trade offers no longer expire after using the back button
- The game now remembers position filters when on the lineup or ratings page
- The free agent pool after creating a league no longer contains top prospects
- Player list now sorted by last names instead of first names
- Fixed scrollbar bug on player history page and other pages
- The AI no longer adjusts lineups for human teams when managing a game
- Fixed problems with the usage of depth chart settings
- Added Wild Pitches to the team pitching stats table
- Added passed balls to the team fielding stats table
- Added player league level to the options available in the filter dialog for player lists
- Tweaked Passed Ball and Wild Pitch frequencies
- Tweaked player position rating calculation & importing
- Fixed importing of OOTP 6.5 HBP ratings
- Middle Relievers are valued less in trades
- Adjusted salaries for closers
- Improved 40-man roster selection AI
- Improved bullpen AI
- Tweaked injury severeness
- Fixed rare crash when viewing league history

Is that the entire list? Are there any plans on having stats on the roster / depth chart pages other than current season? For so many splits in the game, i'm absolutely shocked I can't select a year to view stats or even just look at last years numbers (or last 3 years) without going to the almanac thing.

Those fixes look nice otherwise, but i'm personally not playing the game until the stats are in the roster page. I look at stats from earlier seasons far too much, and it's really a game breaker for me :(

Assuming it's like they did with the first patch, that's a list of what's been fixed to date, not a list of what will be fixed when the patch is released.

To clarify, it's a list of potential fixes, or things they're addressing.

Good point, i'm praying they still add the stats in.

I hope they deal with velocity ratings for pitchers. Right now they have no meaning. I drafted a guy that threw only a knuckleball and curve and had velocity of 90-92. A 92 mph knuckleball?

Velocity has meant nothing for several versions now...it's about time we just forget it's there.

How many strikeouts is this guy throwing? A 92 mph knuckleball has to be impossible to hit.

It might mean nothing, but I thought that it 6.5 it was supposed to be a factor in determining if someone was tired, and in ver 6 at least, knuckleballs usely topped out at 70 something.

I'm sure the suggestion has been heard by them already, but I did suggest it again. I agree, it'd be a nice feature to have.

Well, in reality, a 92 mph knuckleball would be as impossible to hit as a 92 mph fastball. The whole point of a knuckleball is to not give it any spin, so it can carry naturally, and start dipping and diving. A knuckler thrown that fast would just go straight, I'd imagine.

I have a feeling this patch 2 won't fix the waivers, trades and releases, minor league promotions, demotions, etc that the AI does.

You probably will see weird AI things again in the transactions screen when it comes to waivers, trades and releases, minors promotion, major leagues demotion, etc.

These bugs been going on from versions to versions and still in the new engine. I don't see how this patch will fix it. Markus has to change his logic for the AI. If not you going to see the same old bugs.

With a new engine you would of hope to see the AI be a lot better than previous versions from the old engine.

Dola

Troy

How is the testing going, now your on the dream team for the beta team?

What your AI impressions now?

Do they still have knuckleballers with lousy endurance?

Beta 2 Impressions
 

So far...

I'm actually pleased that the game seems to run pretty well on low-end machines and they're pretty hard to hacking off the memory issues that it was having even on better machines. And its working well on my clunker, better with the latest build. That's a huge thing, because I got tired of not being able to do anything other than sim seasons and nothing else with my PC.

I haven't seen any significant improvements on the AI side of the house yet, but I haven't done any extensive tests with the newest build. The previous builds still had all sorts of wacky stuff happening with sign and release deals, overpaying on contracts and the such or players with great careers finishing up in the minors, etc.

But again, I'll delve deeper tonight and then we'll see.

I understand in reality nobody is going to throw a 92 mph knuckler, but if someone threw a knuckleball going 92, it would still have to have no spin to be classified as a knuckleball. A ball that fluttered like a knuckleball while traveling at 92 mph, I believe would be tough to hit. Thanks for the explanation though, Scooter.;)

That was my point. If you could actually throw a knuckleball that fast, it would fail to meet the definition of a knuckler, and would therefore be a fastball.

Oh, and when I thought you were infantilizing me with the "scooter" comment, I decided I didn't like you. Then I realized you were referring to me as that damn talking FOX baseball...now I hate you.

:)

Continuing with the knuckleball threadjack. I knuckleball thrown at 92 MPH would in fact move very little (I suppose if you threw it directly into a hard wind it might move, but then if you can throw knuckleball 92 MPH into a hard wind you probably aren't human.).

The sweet spot for maximum movement in a knuckleball is between 50-70 MPH. Anything below 50 probably doesn't even make it to the plate, but also would not cause enough drag to move the ball. The faster you go over 70 the more the air smooths out behind the ball which will in turn make the ball fly straighter. There is your mini knuckleball physics lesson for the evening. :)

But everyone who pitches can and does throw a fastball though not necessarily an effective one. I've always role played the velocity number this way, the top you can get a fastball thrown and never really thought they were throwing their knucklers or changeups etoc at this speed. In game terms it makes the number meaningless in this case but for me it tends to help me visualize the player a bit. Of course, the visualization is meaningless and I don't judge by it but it's eye candy.

This was just a good place to reply to the velocity thing. I realize it has nothing to do with your point but yours is at the end of the queue as mine will now be. :)

PS> Our patch lists are 'works in progress' rather than 'this is what will be present'. As such they grow as we implement and have tested more fixes.

The reason we do this is simply that otherwise we could post our 'aimed fix list' and find that one of the fixes will take 3 months to implement and test properly by which time most users will have given up waiting patiently and lynched us ... thus posting items as they're rectified ensures that people know whats going on, can see we are working hard on things and removes any problematic issues with potential release dates for the patches.

I was told today that last year stats + two years ago stats have been added to the roster screen. I'll make sure I look at this in the next build and confirm for you Steve.

It's really to early for me to comment on results. I can promise you the issues and the concerns have been posted and some freakin brilliant people are analyzing things in depth and posting their thoughts. (good they want a couple of dolts on there too, of I'd be in trouble) :)

At least we can say it's been productive in terms of the in-depth analysis people are willing to do. And what I'm finding, is just because I think things should be a certain way, doesn't necessarily make them right :) Having a big group of people with different ideas definately helps put your thoughts into perspective.

That said, it's not like they aren't trying to fix the issues...

Yeah, they are clearly working hard. There are "dream team" guys for every issue it seems. You have guys who have did an incredible job at analyzing bullpen AI, another guy is looking at the memory issue in depth and reporting his finds with every build, Sack is doing a bang up job on the in game management issues. Another guy is looking at imports from 6.5 and what is happening there.

I'm running through multi year sims and pouring through stats, but it's so early in the process, I don't think it's fair to issue a thumbs up or down at this point.

:D

I was hoping you would know what I was referring to, but I had my doubts. I couldn't remember the talking baseball's name and had to look it up. I can't decide which is a bigger travesty in baseball: the 1994 strike, steroids, or Scooter.