Ok, replace Hilllary in that list with Elizabeth Warren. :) I guess out of those, Biden at least has charisma, though I've always found his super cool guy personality kinda creepy, and (not that it matters after Trump) but the number of family scandals is a red flag to me.

Looking at the early lists of potential candidates the other one I instinctively dislike is Eric Holder.

So Andrew Miller, Roger Stone's aide who had been fighting Mueller's efforts to talk to a grand jury and might have tried to go all the way to the Supreme Court with it, and claims he knows nothing about Roger Stone's connections to Russia or Wiki Leaks, gave in today and accepted an immunity deal with Mueller. My guess is Roger Stone will be arrested in the next couple weeks.


Edit: There is some confusion over whether this has happened or not. CNN had a tweet that said he did and a link to a video. But the link is to a video they showed earlier today showing Miller's fight against Mueller, not about the immunity. And so far no one else is reporting it.

But how will this effect him pitching down the stretch for the Indians?

Well if he does have immunity, I'm sure he'll still be able to pitch :) Though now it seems CNN has fixed its link, so he's back to being an idiot.

Trump colors an American flag.

Didn't want to bring negative politics into the McCain thread, so here's what President Trump tweeted:


Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 56m56 minutes ago




My deepest sympathies and respect go out to the family of Senator John McCain. Our hearts and prayers are with you!

Cowboy up!

Schumer is going to push to rename the Russell building after McCain. Replacing a guy that blocked civil rights bills with McCain is a nice gesture. I can't imagine it won't go through.

Nicely done.

Odds are he'll say something stupid about McCain soon.

That was undoubtedly his staff not Trump - far too coherent imho.

Yep I agree, and still couldn't bring themselves to say anything about the man.

Alex Jones accidentally revealing himself to be a horrible fucking hypocrite and accidentally showing the world the trans porn that he watches is basically the funniest thing ever. You'll have to just google thing one :D

Republicans try to predict what will happen if the Dems flip the House in November. They expect them to launch investigations of Trump in nearly every committee. Here's what they think the Dems will do:


https://www.axios.com/2018-midterm-e...mpaign=organic

That was an interesting partial list and I don't see anything on there that Republicans wouldn't have investigated in a Democrat administration. If the Dems win the house, Trump's lawyers are going to be busy.

Maybe he will have no free time to Tweet with all those hearings he'll have to go to. Another reason to vote for the Dems :)

Guess that tops the story they had where John Kerry somehow was able to divert a laser and split the Hawaii hurricane in two. Even Kerry went along with it to show just how ridiculous that whole show is. This doesn't mean I have to welcome Jones to the LGBT community now? God I hope not

Yet, vets that I am associated with, don't see this sort of thing as insulting and the whole anthem protest. How exactly?

Here, you have a guy, who was literally the poster child and rep for every POW of the Vietnam war, and he is treated like absolute shit by the president, and yet, is totes ok.

I just don't understand.

Trump rejected plans for a White House statement praising McCain - The Washington Post

I'm so old remember when the GOP said Obama destroyed the economy.

IMPORTANT: President Trump currently presides over the longest running bull market in modern financial history, and the longest streak of job growth ever.

— GOP (@GOP) August 24, 2018

yeah I don't get it either. Add in another insult this morning-flags are supposed to stay at half-mast through any Congressmen's burial which is Sunday. They are back full this morning.

I almost expect him to put together a rally so he can have the tv on him rather than McCain during the funeral. What a petty fuck with nuclear launch codes

Are you fucking kidding?

Would not shock me in the least.

Shit, that's exactly what Republicans said they were GOING to do when it looked like she was going to win. I forget who, might have been Gowdy, but one of 'em said publicly that they had two years' worth of investigations lined up in the event that she won the Presidency.

Not saying the Democrats WON'T do the same, but until they win the House and unleash Committeepalooza, this is essentially Republican projection.

They are saying the flag code says the day of death and day after for half staff following a senators death that is their justification. However, I agree with the sentiment here. It’s a trash move by a very petty man. There’s no reason to not keep them at half staff until after the funeral. McCain was an American hero.

March 2009 and September 2010 are the start dates for those respective streaks. I wonder what they had in common?

It's very telling looking at what they won't investigate themselves.

The anthem stuff is people angry that black people are speaking up.

McCain is an enemy of the Republicans because he didn't go full white nationalist.

I think it's pretty simple.

Check, check and check

I'm reading this to say the vets you are associated with don't think the anthem protests are insulting.

Not the exact words but this survey shows 65% of veterans disagree/object to the protests.

https://iava.org/anthem/

So how long until the media realizes they've been duped again on this US/Mexico "deal"? Similarly to how they ate up the peace agreement with North Korea.

I'm waiting for the details on what changed, the delta's from the orig NAFTA agreement.

Following public and bipartisan bitching, the WH flag is back to half-mast

That's one of the parts I don't get. It absolutely was appropriate to lower it half-mast, but getting upset because it didn't stay there long enough? Really??

typo, should have said, as the anthem protest. Meaning, the people I know, who are vets, and/or POW's don't bat an eye at the McCain stuff, but act like the protesters are in league with Satan and are ready to destroy the Constitution.

For Senators that die in office, it's supposed to stay at half until the internment.

The "minimum" requirement is 48 hours, however there has been a long standing tradition to keep at half mast until interment, not required, but accepted and followed by both Obama and Bush Jr.

I completely understand the outrage. Because, when combined with Trumps rather terse "tribute" which is not the one presented to him by staff it shows him as petty and vindictive. Which of course he is.

When was the last time that a Congressman or Senator, died in office, and the President of the US, didn't say one positive thing about them? Let alone, a President who supposedly 'loves the great military and all the great and very good people in the military' yet, can't swallow his own pride for 5 minutes to honor a guy who legitimately withstood 5 years of imprisonment and lead and organized the prisoner resistance within Hanoi?


That sort of very obvious and public statement from the pos, shouldn't go unnoticed?


As I said earlier, the next time someone tells you that you have to respect the office, even if you don't respect the person in there, just remember that the guy in there right now, doesn't respect it either.

Nothing has changed except the name because he can't make the trade deal without Congress approval. Just the distraction for this week:


https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/27/polit...eal/index.html

Yeah there is no deal. Congress gets 90 days notice before they vote on changes. Mexico will have a new President by the end of the year. It was just a show to shift the news cycle from the McCain stuff to this.

The changes aren't dramatic from the looks of it. Auto manufacturers will be forced to make a slightly bigger portion of the vehicle in North America. They are also forcing them to pay $16 an hour to 45% of their workforce (it was 40%).

There are some favors thrown to the oil industry and telecom companies too I guess.

If Canada does come on board and they sign this before the new Mexico President takes office, it doesn't sound like it'll change a ton. Should be slightly better for auto workers and the steel industry although at the cost of higher prices for consumers. Kind of odd to see a Republican so far to the left on foreign trade.

Besides the white nationalist stuff, this also likely plays into Trump's dislike of McCain. Remember how hated the guy is in Russia.

'The Enemy Is Dead': Russia Reacts to U.S. Senator John McCain’s Passing

I totally agree with this and didn't comment on that aspect of things at all. As far as the respect for the office thing goes, I couldn't disagree with you more there. Trump being a jerk shouldn't change the way we treat our institutions. If it does, then all we're doing is giving him even more power, demeaning ourselves in response to his incompetence/demagoguery/fill in the blank with your favorite description here. That's the exact opposite of what an appropriate response is IMO(appropriate being impeach him yesterday and work all that much harder to ensure this chapter isn't repeated, not 'hey let's all follow his example of incivility now').

Because none of this has anything to do with the flag, anthem, or troops.

The dignity wraith strikes again.

I guess all those years in prison wasn't looking too good for Paul Manafort:


https://www.wsj.com/articles/manafor...d/accounts-wsj

So the FBI needed to move out of an aging Hoover building, and had announced three finalists (MD and VA) about a year ago. Then Trump took an interest, and scrapped those plans. Why? Nothing to do with saving money but probably a lot to do with Trump Hotel in DC:


Trump intervenes in FBI headquarters project - The Washington Post

Whomever runs as a Democrat will be demonstrated to have 'baggage' and a 'target' on their back ... if you doubt this think about Obama who was clean but then suddenly wasn't an American at all .... cue the incredibly obviously fake 'birther' controversy and claims that he was going to take away everyones guns ...

Shit, McCain got it in life AND death. Rough deal.

I should never overestimate the GOP. It appears that they are slowing the process of renaming the Russell building after McCain. McConnell is forming a study group.

Apparently Russell was a segregationist who helped lead a boycott of the DNC after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act.

So we've come to the point of the GOP working to keep a building named after a racist Democrat instead of a war hero Republican.

Imagine for a second if George W. Bush Googled himself and didn't like the results. So he said that he Googled himself and didn't like what he saw, so he is going to explore the government taking over Google.

Think about the reaction.

Trump did that. And things are so fucked up that it doesn't even get a blip of attention.

We won't be able to go back to the way things were. Not even close.

To be fair, Trump didn't google himself. He saw Lou Dobbs read a story from a blog about google results.

:lol:

Lou Dobbs and Diamond & Silk are basically cabinet members.

Oh dear. Trump banned from the funeral yet Obama speaking at it and Biden a pallbearer. cheeto will go crazy that day.

So Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez tweets out a nice statement about John McCain:



And she gets absolutely ripped apart by so-called leftists who feel the need to educate her about everything McCain has done wrong in his career. Fuck those people. I'd rather they just fucking left the party than cater to their immature, smarmy, out of touch brand of politics. (And I'm not even really a fan of Ocasio-Cortez).

I try not to listen to ideological purists. Especially of the suffocatingly leftist variety. They're the democrat version of Ayn Rand apologists on the right, and should be dismissed accordingly.

Though we should make them wear sashes that say something like "I learned everything I know about Topic X from Political Science 101 and shitposts on Reddit."

please. like GW could use a computer...
:cool:

So a banker for Manafort had his Ipad and briefcase stolen from his apartment in NYC last night after reports about Manafort trying to make a deal with Mueller came out-in an area of NYC that has not seen any robberies since Jan 2017. Guy left the door to his balcony open, so the thief got in that way. Strange this happened when it did. They haven't said what was on the IPad or in the briefcase yet.

I know these people really exist but I think there's always a Russian troll element as well, making that voice louder.

Paul Ryan's PAC is using information from a security clearance to smear the Dem running against David Brat in VA. It's a little unclear how they got it, they claim the post office incorrectly gave it to them. The PAC admits they shouldn't have it, but now that they do they aren't retracting or apologizing for using it. The woman in question worked for the CIA and seemingly worked at an Islamic school as part of her work. Of course, the PAC is painting her as a terrorist sympathizer for working at an Islamic school.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/u...super-pac.html

This is my larger concern.

I think the other issue is rather than leading, we have a bunch of people that pander to their constituents.

I am somewhat refreshed knowing that at least some percentage of the online trolls are Russians. Makes me feel better about our country a tiny bit.

Off to a good start in FL governor race.

Uh Ron DeSantis just said FL shouldn't "monkey this up" by electing Andrew Gillum pic.twitter.com/nDPp3Hx7zc

— Steve Morris (@stevemorris__) August 29, 2018

I'm missing the days when the racists at least pretended not to be ...

Florida's Gov race is going to be nuts. A Trumper vs. a Sandernista. Should be very interesting.

It's an interesting question. I miss the innocent joy of when I was naive.

But I think that, since it turns out that the racism has always been there, I'd rather it be on the surface. I'd rather the battle lines be drawn more openly than pretending that we're really arguing about marginal tax rates or some other such proxy for the actual fight.

Guess that working with Mueller didn't go over so well after all:


Trump says White House Counsel Donald McGahn will leave his job in the fall - The Washington Post


Edit: And of of course McGahn didn't know Trump was going to tweet about it

Lesson 101: How slam dunk elections like 2016 are lost...

Painting over 60 million people a lot of whom do care about such "meaningless" things like higher tax rates as closet racists.

But that's the thing. It isn't in the closet anymore. We know what policies the GOP will enact on racial issues. They are open about it. In 2016, they weren't.

So, if going forward, one either agrees with those policies or considers them not a big deal relative to tariffs or whatever, then one will continue to vote GOP. But there's more clarity on what that means.

I think its fair to say in Florida at least the Republican party is quite open about their racist nature .... I personally liked it better when they pretended they cared about other things like balancing budgets, remember those days when huge deficits were said to be 'bad' ... ?

Republican Nominees comments on Democratic Candidate

You lose a lot of credibility overall when you insinuate that anyone who sides conservative is a defacto racist.


Ive said it before, I'm ashamed and embarrassed that I voted for our current sitting President. Yet despite that, given the choice I had to make between Hillary or what we have, I'd hold my nose and make the same selection again today.



Has nothing to do with race.

It's pretty much entirely about race.

There is no world where you can state with credibility that you observed Trump during the campaign, with his stoking of White anxieties and enthusiastic retweets of White nationalists, or as President (Charlottesville; ignoring the deaths of brown Americans in Puerto Rico but getting super anxious about Texas' own hurricane issues), walk away going "but he's better than Hillary," and have it not be about race.

His entire *campaign* was about race on one level or another. Chase those immigrants out and build a wall! They're taking our jobs! And they're murderers and rapists besides!

And how 'bout those black people? They just can't help themselves, when they live in inner cities they just go a murderin' god-fearin' white folk (and each other when they can't find any white people to murder).

And those Haitians all have AIDS and black people are automatically low intelligence if they say anything bad about me and and and and

Not all conservatives are racist but most racists are conservative.

I mean it's not just a coincidence that all these white nationalists were suddenly working for the White House.

Fascinating to see CU tiger and Sack talk right past each other there.

CU: “I don’t care if he’s racist; Hillary’s worse.”
Sack: “But he’s racist!”

How many people were getting a tax cut with Trump that wouldn't have with Hillary?

At least Hillary's plan didn't massively increase the deficit that those fiscal conservatives seem to care about when a black man is in office.

I'm always curious when people say this-how much worse would it be right now if Hillary was President instead if you are ashamed and embarassed by Trump?

I dont know Trump. I'm pretty hesitant to ever throw out the "racist" accusation on someone without personal knowledge/ That said I think it's pretty clear if he isn't a full on racist, he definitely has some (a lot) white superiority beliefs. Which I completely oppos.


That said, despite that fact, as much as it abhors me, I'd still vote for him again over the alternative.



I dont know any other way to make that statement.

I would assume it's along the lines of "while his public persona and his speech is embarrassing, he generally has my interests in mind with actions and policies."

Then I should clarify. Voting GOP does not mean that you are racist. But it does mean that you don't consider racism a deal breaker.

I'm the same way just on different issues. I'm against abortion. But the issue isn't a deal breaker for me, so I tend to vote democratic.

I imagine that very few people agree 100% with either party on every issue. But the response isn't to pretend that the party you support actually agrees with you. It's to acknowledge that you value some issues more than others and vote accordingly.

One major point of contention. I never said nor will I ever say, "I dont care if he's racist" I care deeply. Yet despite how much I care, Hillary's still worse.

I have no problem seeing racists and those that support racists called out. If it loses elections for Dems right now so be it. That's the embarrassing state of our country right now and I'd rather those people's true feelings be out there to be called out instead of known but not spoken about.

As RainMaker stated, not all conservatives are racist but if you are a racist you're probably conservative.

Right. Voting is about compromise and hard choices. And the point I was trying to make above (pretty hamhandedly I guess) is that I prefer a world where the parties are more open about what they believe so that we can make these choices more openly and with less obfuscation.

Sorry about that. That's not what I meant, nor what I think you were thinking. By "I don't care" there, I simply meant...."Even if he is racist..." Better? ;)

No apologies necessary. But, yes. Better.


Sorry if I am a bit sensitive.


Its been an interesting couple weeks around the Tiger house. My youngest daughter just started public school (K5). Suddenly she is more aware that she is black and mommy and daddy are white. She knows her bio mom as momma d and we've always been open and honest. But suddenly we are facing mean kid syndrome.

Fascinating indeed.

'Cept that isn't what he said. He said "I'm ashamed and embarrassed but I supported him over Hillary and I'd do it again; and that's not about race."

My point is, Trump's politics *are* racial politics, by and large. You need exactly two data points to figure out what Trump is going to do in a given situation.

Can he shit on minorities? If so, he will.

Are there no minorities to shit on, but an opportunity to self-aggrandize? Bank on it.

And if you look at that dumpster fire and go "still better than Hillary would be," then at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you tell yourself - it's about race.

So what makes someone a full on racist?

Curious about this as well.

How anyone with a brain ( and CUTiger does) can witness the daily tragedy that is Trump and think we are still better off blows my mind.

As someone who didn't vote for either and wouldn't, that's nonsense. The only way this would be true is if you make race the only possible issue on which to make a voting decision. The picture isn't nearly that simplistic.

I have to ask. What is it you found so bad about Hillary? What policy were you afraid of.

I mean I'm not a big fan of her but I feel like I'd vote for her over the person who thinks my daughter is an inferior race. Who feels my daughter is not a "real American" and someone who should know their role and not speak up.

There are definitely things I'd overlook in a candidate (infidelity for example) if their policies aligned with mine. But if they thought my child was subhuman, I think at worst I'd just write someone else in.

I'd say it just underestimates the antipathy of HRC. I personally couldn't consider her because of her record and conduct on multiple levels; I have a cousin who is a liberal, and voted for her as the best option, but definitely did so holding her nose and thinks she would have been better than Trump -- but not by much. Which is pretty much where I come out on it. I'd be less embarrassed to have her as president than the Donald, but there's no question in my mind I'd still be embarrassed having her represent me.

I agree with this, but at least she would make an effort to act in a way that represents the importance of the office. Trump makes a mockery of it quite literally on a daily basis. Then throw in a healthy dose of racism, xenophobia, and narcissism, plus grossly violating the first amendment and I can't envision us being worse off. That doesn't even factor in policy.

"I knew he was a racist, but there were other issues that were more important to me."

"I didn't care that he was a racist."

"I liked that he was a racist."

What's the real difference? All three put a racist in charge. If anything, the top quote bothers me the most. I have little hope in reaching racists, but if racism is no longer a disqualifying factor for a candidate, that's far more worrisome.

Indeed. I can't understand the excusing of racism. I mean in the past people would say "Well that's not racism because..." and sometimes it'd be BS and sometimes it may make some sense, but at least folks would try to say it's not racism. Now, people are like, well they may be a racist, but... which is frightening.

I recently read about a study that showed Trump voters generally don't like him in spite of him being an asshole, they like him because he's an asshole. As long as he's punching them, everything else can be excused.

I think a bigger question begs, how the fuck did we wind up with these two as our choices?

I don't ever vote straight party line (November may be the first exception to this) because I look for those closer to center. I am not a fan of the "protest" vote, but I had no choice but to go third party in 2016, because at the end of the day I have to have some belief in my choice beyond the lesser of two evils.

I could have lived with voting for HRC, Trump, never! But as that night played out I kept going back to my thoughts above. How are these two our choices?

I saw this exact sentiment on a FB post defending Trump for his treatment of McCain. Basically saying "Yeah he is a loud mouthed asshole, but I am too"

So great, you are both fucking jerks, but you don't have the future of the country in your hands, SMH.

I'm reading a lot of negativity from Dem supporters on HRC here and I don't get it. I voted for her then and would again any day over Trump.

That's not to say I don't agree with Trump on some issues but overall HRC would have been a much better president IMO. The ideal situation would have been HRC in the presidency and a GOP Congress.