Yes and no. If Trump were a normal politician, I'd agree, but if Haley were somehow the nominee Trump would eventually go all in on sabotaging her. It's hard to know how that would play out, but I don't think it's crazy to think Trump could keep a lot of GOP voters at home.

Plus, all those white supremacists voting for Haley seems a bit unlikely.

Still not sure which way I'm leaning in 2024... Biden is kinda old

I just want one of these non-Christie candidates to actually attack the front runner. It’s insane. They’re all running for a spot in the cabinet.

They're all hoping something like Colorado become widespread or one of the cases eliminates him but no one will actually use those as issues to attack.

It's the dumbest and most pointless primary.

I want Haley & Christie to work together and combine votes. Promise Christie a cabinet post of something.

I think that's illegal

It is, but pretty commonly done. You can't directly promise anything, you just strongly suggest.

I also wonder what the life insurance companies would estimate as his chances of dying in the next year.

One of them is openly contributing to a genocide.

Or he ends up in jail. The D.C. trial should be over by the election.

And the other is totally for it as well. Not to mention ending Democracy.

Democrats don't actually believe "the end of democracy" stuff. Just a scare tactic so people can vote for the guy who didn't do shit for them.

He is openly saying he is going to be a dictator. As for Israel, he moved the American embassy to Jerusalem in violation of international law and guaranteed a Unified Jerusalem as the Israeli capital. He has also said that Israel should be allowed to expanded the settlements in the West Bank. If you claim to support a free Palestine, then voting for Trump is great guarantee that it will never happen. He is after all "Israel's greatest friend" by his own words.

He passed infrastructure, climate, COVID relief, ended the war in Afghanistan, basically stopped drone strikes, some student loan cancellation, some gun control...

But, sure, nothing. Leftists still saying there's no difference between parties aren't arguing in good faith. You can be sure that the left will have even less influence going forward. There's no point in trying to work with people that complain no matter what happens.

With a 51-50 Senate no less.

Biden supports all those things regarding Israel as well.

Guess you can always waste your vote on Cornell West and let the chips fall where they may.

The 2024 matchup, much like the 2020 matchup is as bad as we have ever been given as voters, but the ramifications of electing Trump for my grandkids 20 years down the road is not something I want to think about.

I have dual citizenship so I can easily immigrate to a nice, sane country in Europe down the road, not as easy for them.

That was my thought to,but have you seen Europe lately?

Moreso if NATO is disbanded.

Wasn't this the same philosophy on voting for Trump because he'd never win.

It's really a binary choice here, you either want Biden and sanity or Trump and death.

Yeah, we were just over there last month. Still some nice places to shoot for. Budapest is a beautiful, affordable city that is an under the radar expat haven.

Apulia region in Italy, Portugal, though that is becoming too trendy and Austria are also options.

Austria is pricey. What country of origin is your due citizenship or is it EU total?

I heard Portugal is ending their golden passport program. I have Italian heritage. My daughter has talked about buying a passport from like a place like Monaco.

British, and worst case scenario England is also an option, as I have family there. I hadn't heard that about Portugal, but it makes sense as popular as it has become in the last 5-6 years.

We have a nephew in Germany as well and he loves it there.

Ended emergency SNAP benefits, killed Medicaid continuous enrollment, and ended the student loan repayment pause. Didn't extend the child tax credit, earned income tax credit, WIC, and stripped free school lunches. Poorer people actually had better social programs under Trump.

The infrastructure bill was gutted before it got signed into law and includes a big tax break for the rich (plus free handouts to big businesses) that make up a huge portion of the cost. Splitting the bill from reconciliation crushed any leverage Biden had but that was likely intentional on his part.

And the climate bill which increases fossil fuel production on federal lands and waters. Not to mention subsidizing a bunch of large businesses with tax credits.

The Afghanistan stuff is genuinely good. Best foreign policy decision in decades. Shame about the genocide in Gaza and the hundreds of billions we'll end up spending on a deadend war in Ukraine.

No, I'm saying Democrats either don't think democracy is in jeopardy or don't care. Don't let them play you with that dumb argument.

I think sanity would be picking a younger candidate that people actually like.

Crazy how the GOP had nothing to do with any of this.

Supporting Biden in the last election meant supporting him in this one if he decided to run again. Those were one and the same decision for all practical purposes.

no he doesn't. That is just flat lying. He is for a Two State solution (Trump has said Palestinians can never be trusted with their own state), condemns West Bank expansion. He has stated any two state solution would require the withdrawal of settlements on the West Bank and include a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem. To pretend the two are the same is just stupid.

I will say this, Biden is not for the death of Israeli Jews like the Democratic Socialist that celebrated the rape and murders of women and children on October 7th. So I get why you are against him.

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You mean the one in Hungary? The country led by Viktor Orban? That Budapest?

Perhaps one of the best foreign policy positions I can think of in Trump's folder.
Accurate AND honest about it.

Be honest, Jon, how many populaces do you personally feel can be trusted with their own state?

I'm a registered Democrat and I think that if Trump wins in 2024 that will be the last free election we have in this country. Already in some red states the 2024 election won't be exactly "free".


For like the millionth time, the election will be won by swing voters in like 4-6 states like Michigan & North Carolina. Instead of making sweeping generalizations, who me the candidate who does better in those states than Biden.

A "younger candidate that people actually like" might goose the results in MA or CA, but that means nothing in our system.

Actions speak louder than words. He can say he wants a two-state solution and withdrawal from illegal settlements. Just like he says he cares about innocent civilians dying. He has the power to make these things happen but refuses.

Nothing would change in regards to Israel with Trump in power.

Save this lame shit for your boomer friends on Facebook. Now that people can actually see videos, actually hear from reporters on the ground, the propaganda doesn't work.

There is one side committing genocide. One side has run an apartheid state for decades. One side operates a giant concentration camp. One side illegally settling on stolen land. One side actively committing genocide.

What Hamas has done is reprehensible. It still compares into the war crimes and atrocities being committed on a daily basis from Israel.

So democracy is at stake (just ignore 2000) and the best possible option to save it is a wildly unpopular 82-year-old man? I feel like if democracy was going to end, wouldn't you have made a better effort to put up a better candidate?


Seems like this strategy is doing great. Glad the future of democracy rests with him.

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Yeah, you ever been there?

And I know how he is, it's not the leader that matters to me, it's what his followers do and I would take him over Trump 8 days of the week.

These your friends, Rainmaker?https://www.politico.com/news/2023/1...srael-00120533
It is not some boomer Facebook thing, this was the good old Democrat Socialist showing their true colors. They have no problem with the murder and rape of women and children as long as they are Jewish.


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You can oppose two things at the same time. I oppose Hamas and the Israeli government. You have to use a strawman that opposing Israel means you support Hamas because it's impossible to defend what Israel is doing. Anyone with a conscience would oppose the actions of both.

I don't support terrorists and I don't support genocidal ethnostates. You can't say the same thing.

You must vote for the guy who is apparently powerless to do anything for you. It's a great political pitch.

I oppose the war. I have from the very beginning. I just also oppose the murder of innocent Jews as well. I don't like you paint Jews as blooddrinkers glorying in the death of Palestinian babies. Both sides have committed atrocities. Both sides have a right to exist without the fear of genocide. That is something you can't say.

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Rainmaker, as opposed to supporting a dictator? Because unless you are for a dictator then anyone elected has to comprise and recognize that you will never get everything you want.

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Who is committing most of the atrocities and perpetuating genocide? What are the number of innocent civilians killed since not just October 7th, but the past few decades?

And I fully agree. Both sides have a right to exist. That's not the current position of our government and not what our tax dollars are supporting.

You can't pretend this is an incredibly important election that determines the future of our country while simultaneously arguing that the President can't really do all that much. The President either has immense power or they don't. Make up your mind.

Some things is not the same as no things. You refuse to accept that anything has been done. There's really no point in even trying to placate the left because they can't see that a half-full glass isn't empty.

At least with Trump, you'll have plenty to complain about, so there's that.

You don't see the difference between voting for a person who works within the confines of the system and one who intends to destroy the system? You can't be that dense.

On the subject of young candidates that people like, what evidence do we have that is even a thing that exists for presidential elections?

We have a pretty long track record now as a country of voting for older candidates even when younger alternatives are available. One of my conclusions from that is that voters don't actually want younger presidents.

Except for Biden, all modern Democratic Presidents have been below the median age for US Presidents when first elected.

Except for Bush 2, all modern Republican Presidents have been above the median age.

I'd say there's a pretty long track record that Republicans prefer older candidates and Democrats prefer younger.

Well if the guy spending billions on war crimes and genocide is doing it within the confines of the system, that changes everything.

The same billions the other guy would send. You know what is really ridiculous? Biden's position on Israel hasn't changed. He was pro-Israel in 2020 when the young people voted for him. His position has always been consistent. What changed was the vast majority of young voters didn't know what a Palestinian was until October when a group of them committed heinous crimes against Jewish people. Now it is the only cause that means anything. Killing Jews and winning friends isn't a good look.