I would have to agree with Honolulu Blue. There's no questioning the Stars' talent, even if it's less than it was last year. I don't know they can do any better this year in the playoffs than they did last season, though. I still think two or three other teams int he West are better than they are, and I think they owuld lose to at least Ottawa in the East as well.

CR

I do think the Stars are going to do quite well in the playoffs, but to call them the '04 Ducks is pretty stupid.

I agree. I think the Stars could do quite well in the playoffs. They should be doing better in the regular season. They have loads of talent. It may just be the case it takes the year to finally make it all work again. They did have some new pieces, especially along the blueline. Corson isn't a bad guy to have around in the playoffs. Assuming he doesn't just up and leave half-way through.

Blue,

I believe that the context was the similarity to the poor start to the season, and the hot finish.

That I'd buy.

Are people still assuming that the West is the better conference?

Just curious... I'd argue that Ottawa is the most talented team overall in the league, and the East has two goalies (Brodeur and Belfour) that are head and shoulders above any of the contenders in the West.

Hmmm...

Interesting.

It used to be that the West was considered better mainly because there were, at any time, most felt the three (maybe 4) teams were in the West: Detroit, Colorado, Dallas, (and maybe St. Louis). The only team during that era, say 1996-2003, from the East that ever seemed to be a real serious contender was the Devils (see: Brodeur). Phili was close in 1997 when everyone thought Lindros was going to be the next great player after Gretzky and Lemieux, but we all know how that turned out (One SC finals appearance and a SWEEP!!!!!)

Now, I don't think that's the case. Colorado is amazing up front. There is no denying that even if Selanne and Kariya haven't been all that great, their forwards are still as talented as they come (Forsberg and Sakic lift them above Ottawa in that regard). But they have question marks along the blueline (especially with Blake hurt) and goaltending. Yeah, Aberschier has been solid enough, but you can rarely feel confident with a young, untested netminder when entering the playoffs. Weird things can happen to them. Their status certainly slipped a bit the moment Roy retired.

Detroit has also lost its luster. They are old. So very, very old. The Hasek/CuJo thing was a farce. Now Hasek is gone, CuJo is hurt, and we have the tandem of Lamothe/Legace. Yeah. That's right. CuJo should be back for the playoffs, but he wasn't lighting the world on fire when healthy. He's gotta be a question mark. He's just never fit in well in Detroit. Getting Hatcher back would be huge, but you never know how well he'll mesh and at what percentage he will be when playing. Up front the team lacks size and speed.

Dallas, though red hot, has struggled mightly for most of the season. They still have the talent to be one of the top teams, just haven't played like it. St. Louis doesn't have the goaltending and their blueline has been ravaged by injury. I don't see them being comparable either.

In the East you have Ottawa, with an amazing amount of talent upfront. You have New Jersey with Brodeur. Toronto and Belfour. Even Philly to some extent. They have good talent, a solid couch, and Burke gives them a top-class goalie.

I guess things have become a little more "even" between the conferences, at the top at least. As whole, whether the West is better than the East, that may still hold true. I mean, the East does have Pittsburgh after all.

Though, at the moment, 67 points gets you a playoffs spot in the West and 66 in the East. Not too much difference there.

I'll take Tampa to win it all, Alex.

two very good coaches join the ranks of the unemployed...

Bobby Francis and Joel Quenneville are now available, for any teams in need of solid, solid coaches. (then again, Ted Nolan has been available for some time now...)

Quenneville would be a good fit for Phoenix IMHO.

Man would it be great to see Q in Florida after this season. Torchetti has been decent in relief of Keenan going 4-2-2 but I think they need a proven winner, which Queeneville is.

what the hell is going on in nj?

EIGHT GOALS??? two games after scoring SEVEN???

as a devils fan, this is absolutely unprecedented. thats enough offense for SEVEN games for us! im scared. hold me.

What was the final? 8-2?

Two goals against... hmm. Burnsie will have the skating extra laps tomorrow.

I hear some of the players are turning on Burns....his 2 year act with a 5 year contract is almost up.

ive read that not having scott stevens in the locker room has hurt the teams relationship with burns....stevens was apparently the only one who could talk to burns, and would even go so far as to tell him to lay back a little on the players.

since stevens has gone out, though, the players had their own meeting and decided to "play for themselves", which basically means win in spite of burns. thats never a good sign, but, all of the devils have been here before, so, if any team could do it on their own, it might be them...

Pens win!!!! The losing streak is over and I got to watch the game. Now back to discussing real NHL teams.

Todd

Everytime this thread gets bumped I wonder if Clarkie has been making more trades...

Soon, corbes, soon. :)

The Toronto Star is reporting that the Leafs are on the verge of sending Nik Antropov, Carlo Colavacchio and their 1st rounder to the Caps for Sergei Gonchar.

I do not like this one bit.

Wow! The Caps make out like bandits on that one!

I'm with you here...Unless Kolzig is included in the trade.

I don't know... I don't see this deal as being all that one-sided for the Caps. I don't know much about Colavacchio, other than he is a young offensive-defensemen prospect. But Antropov has never done anything for me. He was hot at some point last year (45 points) and stayed relatively healthy, but seems to get hurt quite often, no? I guess he's still young (only 24) and is one of this big, rangy type guys who may take a while to come into their own. The first round pick? Eh, it's a total crapshoot. Should be a very low pick anyway.

Gonchar is one of the top offensive-defensmen in the game, perhaps the top. He's adequate defensively. I don't know if the deal is so bad. The Leafs have been close for many years now. They need to finally make a real solid run for the Cup and Gonchar helps get them there. They've had crap defensemen forever!

Also, Gonchar is only 30! He'd basically be considered a youth player on the Wings. He's got a good 10-12 years of hockey left in him! He's got upside! Tremendous upside!

Here's the problem with Gonchar: he's not what the Leafs need. He's good offensively, and adeuqate defensively. He's not physical. He's basically a more polished Tomas Karberle.

Is he going to help the Leafs fend off all the talent on the Senators? No. Is he going to be able to take the pounding that the Flyer forwards will dish out, constantly dumping the puck in and then hunting down the defenceman? No.

It's not so much that the price is too high (although I think it is), but that the Leafs have a limited number of prospects/picks to move, and I don't like the idea of spending your whole wad on something you don't really need.

What do the Leafs need? A physical defenseman? Marchment, Belak, and Berehowsky aren't enough? Would a Bob Boughner-type blueliner be worth more than Gonchar?

I definitely don't know what the Leafs are looking for and you guys would have a better feel for what they need. It has always been defense for the last few years. If they need help at forward too, than shipping Antropov may not be such a good deal.

I just don't know if there are any big, mobile defensemen available. As far as talent goes, Gonchar may be the best available.

The Wings gave up quite a bit at the deadline last year to get Schneider. Yeah, he could be considered tougher than Gonchar, but not as strong offensively.

Bottom line is the Leafs are weak at teh back end....They are made up of a bunch of 5,6,7 defenceman....they need a quantity of 2,3,4 guys to get better...rather than 1 quality guy.Berg,Marchment,Berehowsky and Belak are all guys you bring in when your 6,7,8 D-man gets hurt...not guys that should play in your 4 and 5 spots.

Gonchar would help...but he alone would not be the answer

He might. It's not so much that they need a tough guy, or even a big hitter. But they need a solid guy who can clear the crease, get the puck out of the zone, and not make stupid mistakes (or as we Leaf fans call them, "Akis").

For the sake of all that is good and holy on my fantasy team, do the deal! :)

SI

Game on, lads!

The Wings acquired Robert Lang for Tomas Fleischmann, a first rounder in 2004, and a fourth rounder in 2006.

Given the uncertainty following this year, the Wings Methuselah-like roster, and the fact that they desperately needed help upfront, this is a good deal. The first rounder will be a low pick. Fleischmann has showed some flashes of promise, but is still a prospect and ways off.

Once more into the breach...

Gotta love picking up the NHL's joint leading scorer :)

Sheesh.

Forgive my ignorance, but who the hell is Tomas Fleischmann?

What is wrong with you guys?!? Mark Messier is out there on a crappy team! Same with Ron Francis. Isn't Gordie Howe still alive? What's wrong with the Wings?

SI

I hadn't heard of him before the trade announcement.

He's THE Tomas Fleischmann. The player so good he needs two "N's". He was a second round pick a few years back. Not a bad prospect actually. He's doing very well in the WHL at the moment, 28 goals, 69 points. Pretty respectable.


Here's the rest:

Tomas Fleischmann was brought to the game by his mother in Koprivnice when Tomas was 5 years old. He was playing for two teams at the same time. In the 7th grade he moved to play for Vitkovice where he is playing up until he was 18 years old.
His only national team invitation was with the U-17 selection in 2001.

He remained on the front lines all season but he was never nominated to enter the national team. Finally his good performance was recognized by the coaches of U-18 selection and Tomas was selected to participate at the U-18 Championship in Slovakia.

Last year's other second round pick, Tomas Fleischmann, didn´t get as much attention as Hudler at the 2002 draft, whom the Red Wings selected five spots ahead. But after his first season in the WHL with Moose Jaw, Fleischmann clearly made a name for himself as a respectable prospect.

Fleischmann started the season carefully, learning about the game. It was after a successful showing at the WJC for team Czech Republic that Fleischmann started to make an impact in Moose Jaw. He finished the regular season with 21 goals and 71 points in 65 games making him the second best rookie scorer in the WHL.

As the playoffs started, Fleischmann was ready to take on another challenge. He continued his hot streak and was the go-to guy during the 12 games that Moose Jaw played. His 4 goals and 15 points in just 12 games was good enough to tie for the 11th place in the scoring race.



Talent Analysis

Tomas Fleischmann is an flashy winger with great offensive tools. He plays a high speed game with a lot of skill and is exciting to watch. His great hockey sense and hands allow him to create quality chances for both himself and his linemates. Although being a good playmaker, Tomas is more of a scorer and he uses his shot often to prove that. Has a good, hard wrist shot with a quick release. His downside is his lack of defensive involvement and he needs to gain more strength in order to take his game to the next level.

Future

The move to the WHL has been a very good one for the young Czech sniper. Instead of getting fourth line minutes in the Czech Extraliga on a strong team Tomas is now getting tons of ice time while adjusting to the more physical hockey.

Tomas is already one of the best offensive players in the WHL and should put up even more impressive numbers next season. He is at least three years away from the NHL.

So... (again, forgiving my ignorance), why is that the NHL's leading scorer can be traded for a first round pick and a good prospect who's three years away, but the Leafs are expected to give up a first rounder, a good prospect who's one year away and a good young player from the NHL roster to get Sergei Gonchar?

Everybody hates the Leafs?

Conspiracy!

H_B,

PLEASE tell me you didn't take that all from memory ;)

ML,

Because the league's leading scorer is a one year wonder and Gonchar is a consistent proven commodity and plays defense.

it's because Lang makes $5 million per year, and has 3 years left.

btw, TSN is reporting that Gonchar is going to be a scratch tonight...

Heh! No, not quite. Pulled it off the internet. I knew he was a second round pick and was playing in the WHL and performed well in the Junior World Championship, but's that it. Back in the day I might have been able to pull something close to that off. Now, I am here in Belgium far, far away from the beloved Wings and hockey. I have grown old and soft... ;)

As for why Lang was so "cheap." The big contract and, as always, good defensemen are at a premium. I think Schneider cost more than this too last year. Always harder to find good defensemen than it is forwards.

Gonchar is the Lang equivalent for defensemen.

I was just wandering the same thing.Langs contract is heafty but i still find this way cheap him.If the Leafs end up giving up anything more than Antropov and a 1st rounder for Gonchar i will be dissapointed.

Bingo !!!

Well, if there is to be some sort of cap/luxury tax, the Wings were going to be f'ed regardless. Another $5 million at this point isn't going to make much of a difference if they have to get rid of half the team. Better to take one last sure-fire shot at it now and then blow it up later if necessary.

That can't be it, since Gonchar will need a deal in that range to resign, and as TSN has alreayd reported it's unlikely any team would deal for him without a new contract in place.

Half their team are FA's at the end of the year.

Hull
Chelios
Yzerman
Hasek

off the top of my head. Right there I'm guessing is close to 30 million.

The number the League was floating around was $35 million as a cap at the begining of the season. That forces 19 teams over the cap based on 2003/04 salaries. There is no way 19 owners are going to support a CBA that forces them to dismantle their teams.


Actually it's only about 20 million. Hull is at 5 million and Chelios, Yzerman and Hasek are hovering around 6 million. But your point is valid. If forced into a restructuring because of a CBA impossed cap, the Wings will easily be able to reduce their payroll, without sacrificing much in way of overall talent.

5 mil a year for the leading point getter in the league...that is a steal in my book.Generally players like this would command 6-9 mil a year.Granted he may be a one year wonder,but he has shown flashes of being an above average NHL'er before.

Think of it this way....would you trade a prospect and a first round pick for Claude Lapointe? cause he make 5 mil for the next 3 or 4 years too.

I think the Wings ripped the Caps blind in this one.

Come on bbor, the Caps got Tomas Fleischmann. THE Tomas Fleischmann. ;)