Wow.

wow, great play by Lebron, and now Anthony! wowowowow

1.9 left. Carmelo with the fkn dagger.

Is it time to quote the Carmello clutch discussion from a page or 2 ago in this thread yet? :(

HOLY !!! wow, james almost made that. SOB.

first loss in over a month for the Cavs. haha. these guys are going to be so so good when Jamison starts. geez.

Only saw the overtime, but that was damn entertaining.

Well, Melo did it all in the clutch tonight. He passed the ball multiple times. His spin move on James with the game on the line in regulation should have been an and one. (Lebron still looking for his jock by the way) Then he hit the game winner.

No, he's not bron and never will be. But he's a special player. A very, very special player.

Lemme guess. Antawn couldn't play tonight cause the clippers guys didn't report in time? Or was drew gooden at fault?

I dont recall any of that conversation being about how clutch he was.

If I remember correct is was about how he loses interest at times and doesnt seem to want to pass at times with a how athletic they are discussion on the side.

I really hate Rasheed Wallace.

signing wallace and trading house are/will be the death knell of this team. along with Garnett's knees having collapsed too of course.

Robinson is a good pickup imo. Sometimes you have to take risks and go with potential ability instead of staying put with a know commodity, this is one of those cases. Robinson gives them a player than can create his own shot and can break down defenses, something no one outside of Rondo and Pierce could do before.


Rodriguez in New York and playing for D´Antoni :) Really glad for the guy, the knicks wanted him for a long time and D´Antoni was a fan of hisas well.

And Milicic gets one last shot apparently, will indeed report to the Timberwolves after Kahn talked to him in New York (he was all set to negotiate a buy out in New York and join a team in Europe to get adjusted before next season) and will get minutes.
I am again hoping for the best, even though i´m no longer holding my breath.

Brewer to the Grizzlies is a good pickup. A shooter would have been better, but with that bench you can´t be picky. Maybe they casn still challenge for the POs.

Charlotte looks like a dangerous team in the first round. But why did those morons try to trade Nazr Mohammed ? The guy has been incredibly productive this year and a solid option at the 5 ... And they wanted to trade him for fringe players ...

For the Rockets for the rest of the year it´ll be interesting what the rotation at SG/SF will look like. I´d bring Ariza off the bench personally, but what do i know.
Hill should pick up quite a few minutes, although i first think that Andersen will play more as well.

I don't know about the Suns making out poorly. If they can either keep Amare (talking about an extension @ $14 per) or trade him in the offseason, I think they make out OK. Iguadala has an awful contract and is a SG who can't hit 3s (not exactly a blessing for the Suns' system). And the poo poo platters offered by everyone else left little to be desired.

If Phoenix had traded Amare for a PF with the ceiling of a 7th man (Hickson), what amounts to an early 2nd round pick (Cle's #1 this season) and the old bones of Z - then they would have been bigtime losers. Even the Iguadala swap (which was never confirmed) would have been bad. He would make as much as Amare in the next 4 seasons (if the Suns extended him), shoots 30% from 3 and plays a spot easily replaceable (guard/SF in the Suns system). Heck, Raja Bell, Jared Dudley, 90-year old Grant Hill, Eddie House and numerous others have had career seasons in that spot.

Arles,

The Suns not making a move was incredibly dangerous. You have an injury plagued PF who has a 17 million dollar option for next season. Say Amare has another big injury before the end of the year. You are now going to pay him 17 million dollars next season to sit out and then have to decide weather to pay for an extension or not.

They had chances to get quality players now. If they sign him to the extension, then they win. If he takes off, even if they pull off a sign and trade, they aren't going to come out with as much as they would have if they'd pulled it off now.

granted that he had major knee surgery but other than that he had an eye injury, that´s injury plagued ? :confused:
Other than that layoff due to the eye injury/surgery he missed only 3 games in the last 4 seasons.

How do you know they won´t get more in a sign and trade than they would have gotten now ? As said, Igoudala is a lateral move at best and no one to build a team around.
The cavs offer ? Pretty sure they get more than that in a sign and trade.

If he just takes off ? Yeah, that´s bad. But then again the Suns at least didn´t take on a player just for the sake of taking on a player. I wouldn´t want Igoudala on my team at that salary for free, much less trade a guy like Stoudemire for him.
And it´s not like i´m high on Stoudemire´s ability either.

I'm trying to remember if I ever saw a trade for Amare that was worth anything.

SI

Sign and trades...

These just aren't common in the NBA anymore; there's probably some reason related to the cap and last CBA. Regardless, I wouldn't count on a sign and trade happening.

OK, so how do you put any fans in the seats? Who do you build around? If Amare bolts, they are screwed. If he gets hurt, they are screwed.

As far as Iggy goes, I think he's one of the most underrated players in basketball. If you put him on a team with shooters, his offense will look a lot better. Put him on a team with clankers from the outside and his biggest weakness is exposed. His offense will never be at an elite level because of how he plays on defense. While guys like Melo and Bron pick their spots on when to D up on the best player on the court, Iggy does it every night. What you get is an elite defensive player, a guy who plays 40 minutes a night, a guy who has missed 6 games in 6 years, and a guy who will do every little thing to help you win basketball games.

I don't think the Suns will get anything remotely close to that in a summer trade. If Kerr had pushed the right buttons, I think he could have gotten him. Or they could have shipped him for expirings and an actual real live first round pick so they could start the rebuilding process.

We'll see how it plays out..

They had their choice of 2-3 poo platters with either bad contracts, over-rated prospects (ie, Hickson) or end of the first round picks (marginal value at best). If they moved Amare for the Cleveland deal, there's a chance the team's fan base gets fed up and quits watching.

Now, in order for the Suns to "get burnt" - all of the following need to happen:

1. Amare decides not to extend with Phoenix before the offseason (rumors are he wants a 4-year at $14 mil per and the Suns are offering a 2-year at $14 mil per - not all that far off).
2. Amare decides to not pick up his option for $17+ million for next season - more than any team could sign him to in the initial year.
3. Either Miami or New Jersey agree to make him a max FA offer - little chance Chicago (want Bosh), New York (Mike D doesn't get along) or the Clippers (have Griffin) will.
4. Amare agrees to accept that offer instead of working out a sign-and-trade for potentially more money with a team like Houston or other contender.

I would put the chance that all 4 happen at around 15-20% max. Plus, there's some risk with Amare declining his option in that if Miami decides to sign Boozer and the Nets go a different direction - there may not be a $14+ million option for him. Then, he's forced to come back to Phoenix without his $17 million option or take a lot less money somewhere else.

But, even if the "worst case" happens - Amare finishes the season for Phoenix and then signs a max deal with Miami. The Suns then have $39 million on the books for 8 players. They also have a $14 million expiring deal in Jason Richardson. So, they can either sign a $10-12 million FA and deal Richardson for a quality player and picks to a team freeing up salary. Or, they can play through a down next season and end up with a good pick in 2011, only $17-19 million on the cap and decent group of young players + Nash (Dragic, Clark, Lopez, Barbosa, Dudley, Amundson, multiple picks).

Again, giving up the somewhat likely chance to keep Amare for Hickson and the 31st pick or expirings and a mid-round pick from Miami is silly. Moving one of the top offensive forwards in the game for a similar contract SG (Iguodala) doesn't make much sense either - esp when the team already has Barbosa, Richardson, Hill and Dudley and would have no post presence without Amare.

At the end of the day, the Suns were smart to hold on to Amare and they will have numerous options no matter how this offseason plays out. Trading Amare for crap or bad contracts in a panic move gives them significantly fewer options - all for the chance to watch JJ Hickson become Hakim Warrick or get a scrub player at pick 30 in the draft.

Arles,

You make good points. I just don't like it. Even if Hickson sucks (and I do think he does), he's a small contract and has some talent and value on the trade front. We'll see what happens this offseason. I really wouldn't put anything past Amare though. I'd move your odds up over 35%.

I really look at Iggy like I look at Kenyon Martin. Is he overpaid? Yeah. Does he do things that can help a good team win a title? Yeah. If you are going to have an overpaid guy (and if Amare gets the max, you've already said he'd be overpaid earlier in the thread), wouldn't you rather have a guy who never misses a game, plays his ass off night in, night out and does a few things exceptionally well as opposed to a guy who takes nights or weeks off when he isn't feeling it?

Again, we'll see how it plays out.

There's always a risk with any situation/move. There's a risk that the Suns moved Amare for Hickson and a pick - Hickson busts and the pick ends up never playing for the team.

I agree that Amare isn't a max player, but $14 mil a season isn't a max contract (and that's what they are talking about now). Plus, if I'm going to slightly overpay, I'd rather it be for an effective PF than an effective SG. The former is a lot harder to find in the NBA.

If the Suns sign Amare to a 4-year extension, I won't be thrilled - but I won't be upset. Pretty much every other moved discussed here involving him would have me be fairly disgusted as a Suns fan.

AZ republic is reporting the Suns (Sarver-Kerr) had a good meeting with Amare and the extension talks are back on. Here's what Amare said today:

The article said there's a good chance that an extension is reached before the offseason hits.

as long as they can put food on their tables for their family

How's Latrell Sprewell supposed to feed his family on a 3-year $21-mil contract!?

Lebron James has been averaging 11 Assists over his last 13 games btw (and 7 in the first quarter today) which is kind of ridiculous no matter how much he dominates the ball and even with the 4 TOs a game ... 7 again today. Really an incredible player. Not that it is news, but still hits me every now and then ...

Jamison off the bench for today.

For Washington Andray Blatche really has tons of upside, as does Javale McGee imo (why in the world didn´t he get PT for a team like the Wizards ? I mean, his rookie season wasn´t that bad at about 14/9 with 2+ blocks per 36)

Jamison has been blocked on basically every attempt so far, almost funny :D

My god - Jamison is having a horrible game - 0-10 from the field so far. Bad game for the Cavs overall. Z come back please.. ;)

Blatche has no consistency at all. He has shown these flashes over the past couple of years but he wont maintain it. Hes basically Gerald Wallace without the toughness.

Isiah Thomas was on PTI today and said the following:

"The jury is probably still out on whether I would be a good pro coach or not. I had a good run in Indiana and was on my way to having a good run in New York"


That's unedited and he didn't qualify that statement anymore. LOL?

kind of looking forward to see McGrady play again, D´Antoni allready said that he´ll start right away.
Throw in Sergio Rodriguez and and getting even smaller up fron and see what happens :D

McGrady absolutely balling in NY tonight. 19 points at the half with 3 assists, including one laser bounce pass up the floor on the break. This is the most unselfish the team has played in months.

McGrady with 19 on 7-12 shooting at the half, add in a couple beautiful assists. I´d be so glad if he really would come back. Didn´t look particularly agile, but that is to be expected and he did a great job picking his spots and his basketball-IQ is just so high that i could see him finding his role as a pick and roll specialist and contributing even with lesser athleticism and without great shooting ability.

martin off the bench for now in houston.

TMac and House are having outstanding debuts for the Knicks.

:(

Ok, if TMac takes and makes the game winner for this one, the Knicks have officially found a new hero.

nice little game between the knicks and thunder, going to OT. Thunder very sloppy on defense, but the knicks did a good job taking advantage of the mismatches they create with that crop of 6´8, 6´9 guys at the 2 and 3 and 4 spots.
Antoni blew it by playing without a PG at the end ...
T-Mac 26/4/4 so far.
eddie house with 19, lee 26.

rodriguez with some good plays as well.

Durant with a bad 2nd half guarded by Gallinari (don´t think that was really the reason though ;) ) but then nails the game-tying 3.

random thought : Eddie House´s release is ridiculous.

Gallinari, you ass.

Can't disagree more. The play was defended well and Gallo got a bailout pass from Lee. Was he supposed to make an off balance three from about 27 feet out? It was really just a poor play from D'Antoni out of the timeout.

Tough loss but that was the best effort the Knicks have shown since early January. Durant was just a killer down the stretch and the Thunder are a good team so I have to hand it to them. I don't see too many more wins the rest of the year because the same glaring problem is there - just no resistance in the paint. If the team shows this effort it will make the last 28 games more bearable though.

Really liked what I saw out of Sergio Rodriguez tonight. Played miles above and beyond anything Duhon has shown this season. Sergio showed some really impressive court vision. I am hoping he quickly takes Duhon's minutes for the rest of the year.

Just got back from the Bulls game and saw them slaughter the Sixers and pick up their 4th in a row. Vinny is starting to look like a decent coach. Did not expect us to be 3 games over .500 at this point.

Not sure if there are any 76ers fans here, but what a pathetic team. They just play with zero emotion and didn't seem to care. Bulls had 11 dunks in the game, free reign around the hoop, and went on a 29-1 run at some point. Turnovers were 15-3 which isn't just the Bulls playing well, but the 76ers just not making any effort on defense. It's one thing to be a bad team, it's another to just completely mail a game in.

And Kirk Hinrich became the Bulls franchise leader in 3-point field goals tonight. One of my favorite players this franchise has ever had.

The Clippers have done this as well, which frustrates me to no end.

That said, I still regard Elton Brand, along with his gloryhound agent, as a traitor for the crap he pulled two offseasons ago, and he deserves to play for a crap team. Nice to see karma show up every now and then and remind the asshats they don't run everything in the world.

Rockets looked terrible defensively tonight. Actually they´ve been bad all season, now you really see how valuable and key Yao in the middle is for that defense. They allways were a To 3-5 defensive team with him, no matter what players played around him.
Now he´s gone and the defense is barely league average, worse on many nights.
It´s not like Hayes is a bad defender (he´s actually amazing man defender) and Battier/Ariza is as good as it gets on the wing, Lowry is a good defender and Scola is ok.
But the schemes just fall apart. And Brooks is a huge part of the problem, terrible defender...

Martin looked off tonight. Played with a ton of effort, but his shot was really, really, really off.
Scola was great, as he´s been all season. If he had a decent PG next to him (Brooks is a decent player and a good scorer, but a terrible PG) who could run the Pick and Roll he could average 20 a game.
For the Pacers, Granger couldn´t miss and Ford had propably his best game of the season.

A lane clogging huge center with the ability to modify and reject shots is still the one proven and true way to make a lackluster defense look great.

yep, especially if that guy doesn´t care if he gets scored or even dunked on and has a high basketball IQ. God, i hope he comes back successfully ...

I always liked Yao, but as a fan of a Western Conference team, I can't really wish the Rockets well. ;)

But, yeah, I hope Yao gets his feet right and returns next year with a flourish.

Trust me on this, you are very lucky not to be stuck with Elton Brand. He has one of the worst contracts in the NBA. I just watched Taj Gibson and Hakim Warrick destroy him last night.

Very intrigued by the upcoming Cavs-Magic matchup starting at this very moment.

It's like I was telling the guys in the office- they didn't understand why we did this since they both said we'd have a better team this year with McGrady on the floor. And I kept telling them this isn't about this year, it's about next year. The best we can do this year is make it into the first round and get drilled. But this nets us a good team *if* Yao can come back *and* helps rebuild for the future even if he doesn't and that's why it was such a great move.

SI

Who had the 2nd quarter for "Joe Crawford T's up a coach and gets himself on TV during a national game?"

Can the playoffs start already so Denver can just play elite teams? In their defense, a lot of people are making something of the Washington game, but that was pure tiredness in the fourth quarter. The Cleveland game took a lot out of them.

Against the best of the best, Denver has been fantastic this year. Against the worst of the worst, they've looked mediocre.

The Orlando/Cleveland matchup is always really fascinating for me to watch. Cleveland does a lot of things really, really well. And they have the best of the best playing for them. Orlando really seems to take a lot of that away. Dwight+ the depth of bigs means they can control the boards and will have a gazillion fouls to spend on Shaq in the playoffs.

The smaller fours really take away what Varajao does. He's a guy who stops penetration, but he's out on the floor trying to cover the three point shot. They have about 4 guys the same size who can cover Lebron. Not stop Lebron, but they don't have any one guy who will get tired covering him.

The one wild card is Jamison. He allows the Cavs to match up better with the Magic. I really want to see those two in a seven game series again. My dream would be to see exact rematches of last years final four. Lakers/Nuggets, Cavs/Magic. May the best teams win. :)

If you're using that defense, this was the back end of a west coast swing and the C's 3rd game in 4 days, plus Nate Robinson isn't there yet. We came back and made a game of it, but going down 19 after 1 points to some tired legs coming in.

That's not a betting pool, that's a drinking game ;)

SI

Hey, I agree. Last game of a long road trip, you are worn out and shorthanded.

The night after the Denver game the Cavs were mauled in Charlotte. I think B2B after an emotional game is tough in this league. The last game of a long road trip is also difficult. Look at betting lines and it becomes obvious that even the great teams have schedule losses in the NBA regular season. After the first quarter, the game played out just about the way I expected. C's are too professional to throw in the towel. I knew they'd come back. Then I expected that comeback to take a lot out of em and the Nuggets to turn on the jets at home. Nothing really shocked me there. Also, Paul Peirce is clearly not himself right now.

That said, all of the Denver tank jobs this year haven't come after B2B's. Start listing the bad losses Denver has this year, and you'll have a big page. Denver and the C's have gotten to their records in 100% opposite ways. Denver crushes +500 teams and tanks it against the dregs. Boston has struggled against the elite and destroyed the dregs. You could make a case for both as good and bad heading into the playoffs.

FWIW - Denver is now 25-11 against +.500 teams and 11-3 vs. the top 4 teams in each conference. (Cle, Orl, Bos, Atl, LAl, UT and Dal) That means 12-8 against below .500. Just two or three of those games and Denver could be challenging the Lakers for the one seed, instead of fighting it out for the two.

Denver looked impressive yesterday in stretches, but also looked very predictable without Billups on the floor. JR Smith is still walking on a thin line between explosive scorer and erratic chucker ...

This just in : Darko Milicic looked like a pretty decent NBA player. A way out of shape NBA player, but good nonetheless ... 8 points, 8 boards, nice passing and good defense and being on the court over Jefferson in the final minutes ... No coincidence he was a +35 in a 2 point loss.
Allow me to gloat for a few minutes ;) Fully expect that to be false hope though ...
I just don´t get it. The huy is huge, still pretty mobile (even the out-of-shape version), has good footwork making him a pretty damn good Pick and Roll defender, is also a good man defender, blocks shots, can Post up and shoot from 15 feet.
I want him to get it together, now. He needs to channel is anger in turn it into positive energy for once (seriously, every time you see his face the guy looks like he´s about to go on a killing spree within seconds).

Al Jefferson looks terrible this year btw. Ineffective on offense, atrocious as allways on defense, clearly not fully healthy.
They won´t turn this around with him as their go-to-player.

For the Thunder Durant with just another day at the office, 32 Points on 16 FGAs, 12 in the last 2 minutes... Westbrook with hist first TD, 22/10/14.
GS beats Atlanta, Steph Curry 32 points with just 1 three. His midrange game is much better than expected.

whomario,

Lawson is still playing well, but he's become way too unselfish. When he's attacking the basket, the second unit is 100% different than when he's throwing the ball to JR and getting out of the way. I hope the coaching staff encourages him to go into attack mode more frequently. FWIW, I thought Chauncey played very poorly for most of the third quarter of the Nuggets/Celtics game. Melo was a bystander for a big part of the third quarter. Carmelo didn't take a shot for the first 7 minutes of the quarter. I think ball handling is the main seperator between Melo and Bron. Bron never has to go 7 minutes without taking a shot, because he's got the ball every possession. Melo will sometimes go three to seven minutes without a touch. While there is no way Melo could/should handle the ball as much as Bron, he should also very, very rarely go 7 minutes without a shot attempt.

JR always, and I mean always walks that line. The key with him is for GK to watch when he's on and off and adjust his minutes accordingly. He catches fire, he should play 35 minutes. He goes cold, he should play about 20. The mistake is when he's cold and GK plays him for 27 minutes. He kills Denver when he's like that and gets minutes.

Have to hand it to Utah. I really thought they'd tail off right after the break. Instead they keep winning. Horrible loss for the Blazers last night.

As for that Golden State game, look at that final quarter. 35-14. Yikes. Hawks will be kicking themselves for that loss and now have to go to Utah tonight.

@ TroyF : That was kinda what i meant to say, should have connected my sentences better propably :D All they do is give the ball to Smith and stand around. Or worse : give the ball to Martin (yikes) and stand around when he was on the floor with the reserves.
Nene needs to play more with the reserves imo and get touches on the block. From the few games i´ve seen at least.

True about Melo needing to be involved consistently (not rocket science really :D ) but truth be told, he couldn´t handle the ball as frequently as James imo. Good ball handler, highly improved passer but certainly would make it easier to defend the Nuggets if he did, imo. Part of why he is so dangerous is that he doesn´t need the ball all the time and can scorer without stopping the ball first (hope that makes sense) and not presenting a target for trapping/double teaming.

that 4th quarter in the GS-ATL game was indeed pretty absurd, just watched it in replay. Curry was amazing though, the guy will be an amzing NBA Point Guard, definitely has the skills.

I agree about Melo and I understand he shouldn't handle the ball as much as James does. I'm just saying he shouldn't go three to five minutes without a touch and should very rarely go 7 minutes without a shot attempt. (especially when the game is moving in the wrong direction)

I love how media outlets spin events in games. The headline from ESPN on the Nuggets/Celtics game: Nuggets blow 20 point lead, hold on to beat Celtics.

Ok, the line is factual. Yet it's more than a little misleading too. The Nuggets did blow a 20 point lead. The game was actually within a one possession game for about 2 minutes in the third quarter. The Celtics never were within 9 points in the final frame. Great comeback by the Celtics and a fun game to watch, but the Nuggets didn't really "hold on", they just turned the jets back on and cruised.

I agree with you about Curry, he's going to be a great player. I knew he had all of the shots, I was not aware of how good of a passer he'd be. He has a chance to be a very special player.

Do you think this is fully from his injuries?

I'm a Big Al lover from his Boston days, but admit to not watching really any Minny games. However, just looking at his raw stats, it doesn't look like he's playing 'too' poorly. Granted, defensively he'll never be amazing, but I'm surprised by the 'ineffective on offense' comment. He's always been somewhat of a 'blackhole' on offense, is this what mean?

Just wondering what you're seeing.

yeah, that´s what i meant.

part of it is the injury but he wasn´t terribly effective prior to that, either (19.5 FGAS for 23 points, only 5 FTAs). Granted, with a better team that would very likely improve. Still, i really don´t see him being a first option to really build around. 2nd option on a good team ? Yeah, fine. But to be the clear go-to guy on offense, i just don´t see it.

Jefferson just needs a lot of support to be effective on offense. Just like Amare but even more extreme. He doesn´t create space at all, is very easy to double team as he really depends on getting the ball in his sweet spots to be effective.
Plus the Wolves try to feed him even if it´s not working. Granted, that´s not really his fault (not Rambis either apparently, yesterday said that he wants the team to look for alternatives but they just can´t make the switch).

A first option post player shouldn´t need 15 shots for 17 points. Of all PF/Cs in the league averaging 14+ points he has the lowest TS% while being in the upper 3rd in terms of USG%.

And watching him (granted on a small sample size, watched 3 full games and few where i browsed through) the above really makes sense. He needs a ton of space to operate, yet really doesn´t punish people inside and takes a lot of fadeaways at an underwhelming clip.
Even last year during his supposed "dominant play". F.e. against Houston he had 38/23 and 34/14, yet the Rockets really didn´t need to adjust much. Didn´t get anyone into foul trouble, needed 30 and 31 shots respectively, had 11 FTs combined.

I dunno, he just doesn´t put a signature on games. Right now he´s pretty comparable to Chris Kaman on offense. Nothing against the Caveman, but you get my point i think.
Plus Jefferson´s energy level is pathetic at times, he´s just not doing anything in terms of leading a team and his defense is really, really, really bad. He doesn´t rotate correctly, overplays trying to block shots, doesn´t move his feet in Pick and Roll situations. Just doesn´t "get it" at that end.
And to let that slide and get big money a player better put up 22,23 with really good efficiency (look under Boozer, Carlos)

I´m not at all trying to say he´s a bad player, but he is a) clearly not moving as well as he could (there i have hope for next year with another offseason) and even on top of his game i wouldn´t build around him.

Good analysis. I agree, there is zero way you build around him. He could be a decent piece with a good supporting cast, but he's not a superstar.

Did anyone see this from Lebron after the Magic game?


GTFO.

Now that's just laughable.

Random thought - I wonder if anyone ever went back and compiled all of the ridiculous quotes about Durant when he was new to the league. Lots of folks declaring him a bust around these parts if I remember correctly.

Absolutely loving the Thunder!

Well the first half (IIRC) of his rookie season he was being played at SG and wasn't shooting the ball well at all, but as soon as they came to their senses and moved him to the frontcourt he's been spectacular. Not sure who was declaring him a bust as a rookie though, I mean hell, he averaged 20ppg.

Speaking of Al Jefferson, Bulls offered Luol Deng and Tyrus Thomas for him at the deadline.

I distinctly remember arguing that Oden was a sure thing and Durant may have a higher ceiling but was a much, much bigger risk and that Oden should have been the #1 pick and it should not have been a debate.

WHOOPS.

I believe we had this discussion many pages back in this thread already, but I still say that knowing what we knew back then, Oden was the right pick for Portland. If you had a time machine, obviously you take Durant, but nobody could have realistically predicted Oden's injury woes, and he was beginning to play very well before his latest setback.

If the Bulls hang on to their 10-point halftime lead against Washington, it'll be 5 in a row and they'll be 22-11 since the report came out that Vinny Del Negro would be fired. This has been done with Noah missing about 9 games in that stretch.

Not saying they will go anywhere in the playoffs, but I have to believe they would be one of the scarier matchups for one of the top 4 to come across. I personally would love to see us get Boston again as I think they are the most beatable of those top 4 teams.

Lebron averages 1.68 fouls per game. This is despite playing 39 minutes a night. That ranks him 210th in the NBA in fouls per 48 minutes. This is despite him driving as much or more than any SF in the league and playing active defense on a nightly basis.

He can truly STFU.

dola

I read an article on basketball prospectus that tried to justify this by saying Deng also has low fouls per 48. Ummm. . . Deng doesn't handle the ball nearly as much as Lebron. Bron essentially gets about 0 offensive fouls called on him per game. he needs to get a grip.

seriously

Oklahoma has won 9 in a row btw, looking really, really good bet to reach the Playoffs. Don´t want to jinx it, but don´t see them dropping off now.

Phoenix also surging, 8-2 in their last 10 :)

random stat : Steve Nash gets assisted on only 10% of his scores. Paul is at 11%, the next round of players start at 23 %.
James 35%, Kobe 40%, Durant 50%.
Nash still is 2nd among perimeter players for TS%, that´s pretty insane for a scrawny guard who just turned 36.
(Mike Miller is 1st btw shooting 56% from the field and 3, averaging 10 a game. Amazing shooter as well)

Andrey Blatche post All Star/Trade line : 4 games (3W, 1L) 25/10, 60% FG, 85% FT.
I dunno, maybe he really just needs consistent minutes. Haven´t seen him play a ton and while i can see the "inconsistent, mentally weak" thing, the guy still is only 23 years old.

And oh, if that offer of Mayo for Ellis really was on the table the Warriors should have taken it.
That´s how good Curry is allready.
Definitely has a Nash-like quality to his game when it comes to pushing the ball, finding passing angles, keeping his dribble under pressure and being an amazing shooter from anywhere on the floor.
I´m not saying he´s as good a playmaker as Nash or ever will be, but they definitely have similarities.

Put him next to a real SG (well, Mayo is at least close) and he´s going to be even better.

Don't get me started on an Ellis rant. I don't get why so many people love this guy. He's a chucker, he dominates the ball, he's a bad three point shooter, he averages over 4 turnovers a game, he's pathetic in clutch situations, his defense is amongst the worst in the league for his position, every advanced stat says he sucks beyond belief. . . and he makes 11 million dollars a year until 2013.

If the Warriors were offered a bag of balls for the guy, they should have taken it and ran. OJ Mayo? Seriously? This shows both how bad these two organizations are ran when you see one team offered it and the other declined. Pure idiocy.

Ellis is kind of the 2010 version of most Allen Iverson seasons. Amazing scorer, great penetrator, a ton of "heart", very competitive, a case of "me against the world" syndrome.
If he had a bunch of well developed hard-playing role players and veteran around him he might just succeed, but him leading a young team ? No, thanks. I´ll take option B, please.

After Ronnie Brewer gets injured after one game with the Grizz (out 3+ weeks) now Josh Howard tears his ACL in his 4th game for the wizzards and is out for at least the rest of the year.
Jesus ...

whomario,

The comparison to AI is good, outside of the "heart" thing. I just don't see that with Monta. I just see a guy who jacks up shots and doesn't draw a lot of fouls.

I'll also throw in that I don't think he could succeed anywhere right now. The only thing he could do would be to have a Vinnie Johnson type of 6th man role somewhere. Problem is he makes too much money and has too big of an ego to do that.

He's a guy I wouldn't want anywhere near the team I cheered for. Too bad Philly couldn't have traded for him just for the comic relief. AI and Ellis in the same backcourt. I'd have paid money to see that.

That said, I can't even laugh at AI now. I hope his daughter is ok.

I thought Ellis was crazy efficient about 2 years ago. But I haven't followed him in quite awhile

His second, actually.

Call me crazy, but here goes :

Darko Milicic on a good team would be a highly appreciated player. There, now you can laugh :)

Another really, really good game yesterday in a win in Miami. Wait, you say, he had 4 points and 2 rebounds with 3 blocks only !! Still, watching the game it was different.
Timberwolves fans are basically shocked and flabbergasted after his first 2 games. Now, the Wolves didn´t have a good defensive big men since Garnett and their last good defensive Center was Rasho Nesterovic (who was allways damn underrated as well), but still.
He really is a very good defender. There´s maybe a handfull of Centers that guard the Pick and Roll that well (much less guys that are like 7´1 and 275) and have that combination of quick feet and shot blocking ability.
And he´s still ways away from being in decent game shape ...

Saw all his minutes a few minutes ago on league pass replay and the guy simply gets it defensively.
The thing is, he doesn´t care about stats. Blocks out rather than crash the boards f.e. Moves the ball on offense instead of forcing it.
On a team deprived for boards and scoring that gets old quick and labeled as passive (his Memphis tenure), while in Orlando it got appreciated. And now he plays next to 2 really good rebounders and scorers that can´t defend all that well (Love, though he is ok a lot) or at all (Jefferson).
O´Neal scored all but 2 of his points on Jefferson last night.
And voila, fans notice it.

I honestly don´t know what Antoni was thinking in New York...

Other than that little fan-post :

Suns beat the Thunder, ending their streak at 9. All that without Nash (his back needed a rest after that road trip) and despite Durant scoirng 36 on 13-24 shooting with only 2 TOs.
Stoudemire with 30/9, Hill 21/9, Richardson 20 and the game winner. Dragic 16 points and 10 assists in nash´s place, nice one.

Kobe comes back with 32/7/6 and the game winner over Memphis.

Cavs win for the first time with Jamison who started in place of Hickson (who went from starter to zero minutes) . Marcus Thornton scored 37 on 15-22 shooting :eek: James 13 assists and zero TOs.

Pretty interesting interview with Nowitzki´s personal coach/mentor Holger geschwindner on Dirk´s beginnings and way to the NBA : SLAM ONLINE | » A Boy from Wurzburg

Whomario,

I understand what you are saying about Darko and I agree with part of it. Yet you are still talking about 4 points, 2 rebounds, 0 assists in 25 minutes. Yes, there is such a thing as being unselfish and doing the dirty work. . . but you have to have slightly better numbers than that, don't you?

I'm still pulling for Darko. I also still don't see how he'll ever be anything more than a 9th man back of rotation player in this league.

no, you don´t in my book. On a good team or next to a good scorer up front you don´t.
On average, you need to produce better, no doubt. But in that game his intangibles were worth more than had f.e. Hollins played and produced 15/10 with everything else on average for him (defense, boxing out etc). They´d have lost by 15.
The Miami Centers O´Neal and Anthony combined for 2 rebounds when he was on the floor (i counted, slow day... ;) )
He wasn´t on the floor because of some weird charity-thing but because he made the team better both nights and he wasn´t just taking minutes away from Hollins but Jefferson as well. And rightfully so to boot.
If he could have phyischally he´d have played 30+ minutes both games.

His numbers should improve with conditioning as it is anyway (and he had 8/8 in 20 the night before). It´s not like his per 36 minutes are on a level of Jason Collins in terms of (lack of) production. Not enough for a team lacking scoring punch up front, but next to Jefferson/Love ? I´d believe that 12/8 in 30 with good defense would be more than fine and he can give you that, no doubt in my mind.

Odds are he´ll go to Europe after the season, so discussing his future prospects is lacking pull...

But hey, i´m not trying to convince anyone. Maybe encourage to watch some games though if you have league pass or if they play on national tv this season (well, not likely ;) )

Interesting listen, his first interview in Minnesota after his first shootarround : http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/medi...OKC_100221.mp3

talks about his frustration without seeming whiny about it, very honest and thoughtfull.

in unrelated news : Marcus Camby goes down with what is hopefully just a mildly sprained ankle. That´s 3 just-traded players down...

Lakers vs. Mavs tonight.

Too bad Dampier is out. Otherwise, we might see Dallas toy with putting Damp and Haywood in at the same time to combat LA's height and length.

As it is, this match-up against the defending champs should be a good test for them to see if they now have the talent to be a significant force in the West playoffs.

Really? You don't? You don't need more than 4 points and 2 rebounds to be a rotation player in the NBA? Cmon Whomario, you are much smarter than that.

FYI, Miami had 7 offensive rebounds last night and 3 came on one possession.

And no, the TWolves wouldn't have lost by 15 had Hollis played and scored 15 and 10. Miami played without Dwayne Wade.

I don't like getting into a debate about Darko. I really, truly do like the guy. Any interview I've ever heard the guy in makes me like him more.

But lets stop pretending he hasn't had chances. He played 24 minutes a night next to Dwight Howard in 06/07. Orlando, a team that prides itself on having 10 guys who play nightly decided they weren't interested. He played 24 minutes a game the next year with the Grizzlies. He's had chance after chance after chance. What we do see is production on the court that's well below average. What we don't see is how he does in practice, how quickly he picks up offensive plays and how much he wants it.

He's now with his 5th team in 7 years. Were the other four all wrong and don't understand how to evaluate talent? I dunno. I'm not saying they were all right, but I am saying I need to see some sustained production from the guy before I believe he'll ever be anything more than a role player. I'd love to be wrong, I really would.

This is one of those scheduling things from above in the thread. I don't know how significant it is if you beat a team who had 3 players play 40 minutes or more the previous night while you got to bed early and were relaxing at home.

This is far more important to Dallas than the Lakers. I fully expect the Mavs to win by 10. If they don't. . . that's a sign of trouble come playoff time.

No, Orlando decided they wanted to pay Rashard Lewis 20 mio a year :) If not

-I said in a/one game you don´t need more than that if you do everything else right, i very much said you´d need more on average ;)

-Where did i say Miami didn´t have 7 offensive rebounds (which isn´t exactly a lot for a team shooting terrible) ? Their Centers and guys next to Milicic hat 2 on both ends all night is what i said.

- I never said he didn´t have chances, neither did he.

-As said, Orlando just went in a different direction and left him hanging dry because of that financial manouvring to get Lewis. They decided Lewis was their missing piece, fair enough.


I´m not even speaking about the past, i´m purely judging what i´m seeing right now. Which is sth that is making a lot of timberwolves fans question wether to even keep Jefferson with 2 games of 8/8 and 4/2/3. Which is insane in itself but also tells you sth about how much he affected both those games, doesn´t it ?

Again, 95% he goes back to Europe anyway. But allow me to gush a bit for the time being ;)

And for the record : You are propably (95%) right, it´s one of those topics where i choose to be delusional/ignorant/stubborn for my own mental health because of my history endorsing the guy. Some turn on guys that disapoint them, i allways find sth else to endorse i guess ;)


EDIT : About the liking thing, maybe related : You have a guy who has allready decided to go to Europe after the season and tried to be bought out for weeks, and definitely will get great offers over here, that guy gets traded to a terrible team when he is all but fed up about having nothing to play for (a terrible team in europe would have to fight to stay up at least, not have to actually loose for a better draft pick), gets traded for like 2 months left when he has a little son at home . That guy has nothing to gain here from his point of view really. Heck, no one would have been surprised if he hadn´t even reported or tried to get a buy out.
He is also far from being in game shape. And then he comes in, and plays with effort, sets screen after screen, traps every pick and roll, rotates back every time gets out to every shooter.
It just doesn´t "fit" with that situation and that´s what caught my (and the Timberwolves fans) eye really. I just can´t not appreciate that.


I promise to dial the PDA down a bit though ;)

Hickson had the flu and was a game-time decision with or without Jamison, but I wouldn't be surprised if he logs some DNP-CDs this season. The Cavs were trying to do what Toronto has done wth DeRozan by starting him so he's assured some minutes regardless of how the game goes. He's got potential and in another couple of seasons could be a solid PF, but right now the Cavs best 2 PFs are Jamison and V.

Marcus Thornton has proved a hell of a steal ever since the coaching change, and Darren Collison hasn't looked too shabby either.

thanks for the info, missed that while skimming over the web this morning. Wouldn´t surprise me either if he gets demoted, it´s just how it is. Especially when Z comes back, then there no way he plays more than spot minutes unless it´s an unfavourable matchup at Center for Shaq/Z and Varejao slides over for extended stretches.

whomario,

Preaching to the choir. I do like Darko and want to see him succeed. And he is a good guy. I'm just not ready to fall in love with him after two games in a TWolves uniform. I still don't understand the Wolves reluctence to deal Jefferson at the deadline.

For that matter, I don't understand a lot of teams. Washington paid out the nose to be mediocre for 4 straight seasons. The Warriors don't want to part with any of their "assets" when they are 16-40. Jefferson, even with his average play this year, had value. If he continues to suck, that value goes bye bye. I just don't get it.

Now, I really, really like Kevin Love. The guy can play. Jefferson? Not so much.

One surprising thing about the TWolves this season for me has been Corey Brewer. I'd pretty much written him off as a blown lottery pick, but looks like the guy can play and, most surprisingly of all, can shoot the ball a little now.

He´s just sepctacular when he gets to play on the move, really has true guard-speed at right about 6´9. And yeah, his jump shot finally deserves that name.

Also seemingly every game he and Love team up for a breathtaking QB/WR connection, last night again after a made FT by Miami.

Speaking of those long outlet passes by Love : You can´t realistically gameplan with that, but it´s still an amazing ability he brings to the table and is good for a couple baskets every night as a hockey assist at least.

another guy where i still think he´ll be a really good nba player for a few years : Dorrell Wright. Yeah i know that i propably caught him on his best game in like ever, but i really liked his play in the 06/07 season and that combination of length and athleticism simply is still there and now he developed a 3 point Jump Shot over the summer.

For sure. One of my best mates was a pretty amazing PF back in our high school basketball days, and he had this skill down too. Whenever the other team scored he was tearing the ball out of the bottom of the net, then looking for the long outlet pass from the inbound, while me or the other guard on the team was sprinting down court, every chance. Might only get 2 or 3 opportunities a game to pull it off (especially after completing it once), but man is it frustrating for the other team to have to work the ball around and put in 20-30 seconds of offense to score a basket, only to have us reply in under 5 seconds. :D

Okay, so Gooden was pretty good tonight with the Clips. Someone who knows give me a rundown on why he sucks so much. Is it inconsistency?

He is not a bad basketball player, just not good enough for the way he plays. If that makes any sense. He doesn´t usually complement anyone on the court.
Plus he can´t defend big guys, is too slow laterally to defend smaller guys, doesn´t rotate well or blocks shots, is a terrible passer and needs to be set up to score. Dóesn´t have the handles to take big guys off the dribble and isn´t a good enough post scorer to overpower smaller guys.
He does get his but it doesn´t force the other team to adjust at all. And if they double him once in a while he can´t pass.

He managed a -8.5 with the Spurs last year, 6 teams in 8 years and in all but one season he was in the bottom 2 among rotation players in +- (Larry hughes and czezary trybanski were worse at one time) , that is just an unbelievable "streak"

He´s likely not a bad guy and doesn´t pack it in or anything, but he just gives effort at all the wrong moments and the results ...

Manu Ginobili with an all-world defensive play on Durant :



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm9Y-vqZsEo

whoa :eek:

also 26/9/4 and overall a strong month of february, glad he starts playing better :)

Just watch like 5 games, look at all the dumb ass stuff he does. He can't rotate on defense. He doesn't block shots. His offense is nothing to speak of. Honestly maybe it's just his demeanor at times, and his inability to grasp what the fuck is going on around him, that make him look like a dumbass.

Gooden is a good offensive player. He can give you 20 points every so often. Problem is that he kills the flow of most offenses. He's a bad passer who is always looking for his own shot.

Defensively, he can be average at times but doesn't seem like he has a lot of motivation to do so. He doesn't seem to put much effort in and has brain farts all the time.

The sad thing is that he will give you a 20-10 night once in awhile and you'll think that he can be a nice piece. But he'll shit on himself for the next two games and play like he doesn't care. I have no doubt that if he had a stronger work ethic and passion for the sport, he could be an All-Star. But by watching him play in person for a year, it always just seemed like he'd rather be somewhere else.

Just to echo what others have said. . . Gooden is a black hole on offense and he gives very little effort at the defensive end. He's always been a guy that looks really good the first time you watch him play. You see him again and see a few warts but still think he's a decent enough player. By the 8th time you've seen him, you are cussing the coach out for putting him in the game.

One thing he's always done very well is offensive rebounding. He's always been great at that part of the game.

Here's my Gooden post:
Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season

SI

Gooden has less basketball IQ than any basketball player I have ever seen, and I've been watching the NBA all my life.

boy, if the aliens ever abduct him and send him back clever, our faces are going to look sooooo red :D