Even so, ignoring the transfers, the two Snyder holdovers still contribute over 20 minutes apiece per game and 23.6 points, over 25% of the team's 81.1 points per game average.

Those two guys are easily 4th and 5th in importance to this team (which says how good this team is). Taylor has been invaluable as a PG leader and is the biggest reason for our improvement. Tiller and Carroll are the guts of this team. Tiller can win a game with his defense. Carroll is all-hustle and a glass eater.

Lyons can just disappear in some games, though his good late season runs over the last two years indicate that he gets pretty motivated when the NBA scouts show up. He could be a ridiculous player if he ever put his mind to it. Lawrence is a great floor leader, but he's basically a one trick pony who gets most of his points due to the attention that the starters draw. He didn't even start for much of the Big 12 schedule.

I think I responded to the original post earlier also. Lawrence was an acedemic walk-on so he can hardly be considered a Quin recruit. His dream (I taught him when he was in middle school) was to play for Missouri. And when he was a freshman it looked like he was a "heart-warming" story of a guy that got to play division I ball. The reason he developed and became a starter is 100% Anderson.

Lyons is definitely one of Quin's recruits. He was part of the Ricky Clemons program of highly talented, questionable character recruiting. I think his name was Leo Criswell when he came to Mizzou and then changed his name to Lyons, not always the best sign. Lyons has also florished under Anderson's system and Melvin Watkins (asst. coach).

So credit goes to Quin for hiring Watkins to help try and right the ship and having the "charm" to get Leo as a recruit but hardly the reason for this season's success.

Missouri's success is because of Mike Anderson, no matter how the players got on campus, I can assure you of that. There may be a slight drop-off next year ("may) but if there is, he will have them back in short order. Anderson is the real deal.

QFT

Honestly, it's almost impossible not to have a drop off. This is the first time Mizzou has won 30 games in a season. Mizzou has had some great teams, but this and the '93-'94 championship have been wonderful surprises. They should still compete for a NCAA tourney spot, even with the departures.

I noticed that Anthony Grant is taking a second visit to Alabama today. Word is that he has 5 days to accept the contract or they'll look elsewhere for a coach. Mizzou fans are obviously hoping Grant will take the offer, even if the chance of Anderson leaving Mizzou is relatively remote.

Well, that and losing your three best scorers to graduation probably means next year won't be as good...

SI

I'm assuming that comment is heavily loaded with sarcasm after Kansas lost 6 of their top 7 players and still won the regular season championship.

But as you well know from watching Mizzou on several occasions, we have English and Denmon ready to take over on the wing and Safford, Ramsey, and Bowers are very good athletes who should do just fine inside. Those three guys are all better rebounders than Lyons, though their offensive skills need some fine tuning. That's the advantage of this system. The freshman get up to speed a whole lot quicker because they play significant minutes.

No, I was being serious. You lose a lot of senior leadership and you're not going to be nearly as good. We aren't nearly as good as we were last year and we're going to be a lot better next year both because of age and experience. All of our upperclassmen that graduated or jumped to the NBA last year are a lot better than the freshmen (and others) who replaced them. And the freshmen (and others) who replaced them will be a lot better next year with another year on their belt.

Now whether they will be as good next year or the year after as the team last year will remain to be seen...

SI

We'll just agree to disagree. I don't think Kansas will be better next year as Aldridge (sp?) is likely going to leave after this year unless he's just one of those kids that wants to go to school. Given that his family is not that well-off, I expect him to leave and take the mid-first round money while it's there.

Out of Lyons, Carroll, and Lawrence, only Carroll is a huge loss. English has already shown he's every bit as good a shooter as Lawrence with a lot more ability in other aspects. Lyons can be spectacular and mind-numbing all in one game. Safford and Ramsey should provide a lot more consistant rebounding than Lyons.

Carroll is irreplacable. He's just a ridiculously good player.

In case you have not figured it out yet, Missouri is not Kansas, Memphis, or any other elite basketball program.

Just for perspective, Kansas had 6 4-star and 1 5-star recruit come in between 2007 and 2008 (making their run this year a little more plausible). In 2008 and 2009, Missouri has had 0 4 or 5 star recruits. This makes another run in 2009-10 much less likely.

Just heard that Mizzou's DeMarre Carroll sprained his ankle at practice today.

For perspective during the Quin's great 2005 season (12-16 record)

Seniors: one 4 star
Juniors: one 4 star
Sophomores: one 5 star and one 4 star
Freshmen: two 4 stars

Couldn't coach worth a lick.

According to the experts... All of our players on this year's team are 3 star or less. Wonder with Anderson could do with talent? Or maybe our system is build on a different kind of athlete that the star system doesn't appreiciate???

Didn't realize Memphis had reached "elite" status. Guess those players are torn between Kansas, UNC, Duke, and Memphis. Before you try the national championship game arguement be careful or you are going to have 2002 Indiana, 2004 Georgia Tech, 2005 Illini, and 2006 UCLA as "elite" teams.

...and returned to practice action 5 minutes later.

Dang, three posts in a row defending Mizzou. Am I becoming MBBF #2???

To see what will happen with average talent, look at Arkansas around 99-2001.

To see what will happen with superb talent, look at Arkansas 90-95.

Seriously.

Careful, that starts to sound like Tennessee's situation in a way. In our case it's a system that doesn't seem to work with 4* & 5* players but I'd be nervous about the similarity anyway.

In this day and age, being the only team to make it to the Sweet 16 each of the past four seasons definitely puts them under consideration.

I think that qualifies more as a "run"

In the days of players staying all four years, I'd agree.

The Memphis Edge » Blog Archive » Missouri is fast, but. . .

Only played for a few minutes then went back to the bench.

But he said he was 100% at the press conference. So much ado about nothing.

Good news to whoever beats Villanova in the tournament: Whatever team has beaten Nova' after reaching the Sweet Sixteen has gone on to win the National Championship in three out of the past four years (North Carolina in 05', Florida in 06', Kansas in 08').

I agree fully!

Nova best not be losing to Duke then.

My bracket would be so happy :)

Is your argument that the top recruits choose between Kansas, UNC, and Duke but not Memphis?

Yeah, I mean, I'm ok if they lose to Pitt and they go on to win, but not Duke ;)

Heck, I'd be all for Villanova winning this year- tho, c'mon, you guys haven't had enough love with the Phillies winning the World Series? (I was going to bring up the Eagles making the NFC Championship but that's never enough for that damn city)

SI

I think the argument is that only under the loosest, most inclusive definitions of "elite" does Memphis qualify. More likely, you're confusing "pretty good for 4 years" with "elite"

What he said...

Heard on the radio that Gillespie is out at Kentucky?

There was a rumor going around that he'd be fired after Kentucky's last game. Well, they lost in the NITs tonight to Notre Dame, so if the rumor is true, we'll find out soon enough.

Well, I'm currently a third-year law student at Villanova and live less than one mile away from the heart of campus. So, as awesome and unbelieveable as the Phillies World Championship was, it would be extreme for me personally to have the Wildcats keep advancing. :)

Who'll replace Gillespie at UK?

CBI semi-finals
-----
UTEP 81, Richmond 69
Stanford at Oregon State – 10 PM ET (HDNet)


CIT Final Four
----------
Pacific (21-11)
@ Bradley (20-14)

James Madison (21-14)
@ Old Dominion (23-10)

Travis Ford

Wasn't he the dude who led Florida to a national championship?

I'm pretty sure that UCLA is an elite program by whatever definition you want to use.

I'm pretty sure that the 2005 Illini were the #1 overall seed in the tourney that year, unlike the other examples you use here to mock title-game losers who made runs from significantly lower seeds.

Let's see Missouri make a Final Four, let alone a title game, before you get into the habit of smearing your betters.

No, Gillespie is the guy that was hired at UTEP, took them to the Big Dance, then bolted for Texas A&M. After turning them around in a couple of seasons, he bolted for Kentucky.

You are thinking of Billy Donovan.

They said on the radio, Kentucky is targeting Tom Izzo, John Calipari, and Billy Donovan.


Tim Brando was the source.

All three of those coaches would be fools if they leave their current jobs and go to Kentucky.

Izzo isn't coming (why would he?) and I'm not sure the other two want the hell that comes with the job. Calipari certainly doesn't considering he turned down NC State a couple of years ago and while the job pressure is very high here--regardless of perception about State's place in the pecking order--it's obviously dwarfed by the pressure of winning at Kentucky.

I'm anything but a Kentucky fan, but I strongly disagree.

just like Gillespie was.

Donovan is the name that was bouncing around local sports talk here today as well. And I'd say it's close to a 50-50 flip whether he'd do it.

Agreed.

We have had this discussion before, so no surprise with my feelings on the subject. I still believe that there are a handful of schools who, when they call, you take the call and listen regardless of your situation. I think those schools are Kansas, Duke, UNC, Indiana, UCLA, and Kentucky. Now, obviously a guy like Jim Boeheim or Jim Calhoun are probably not going to listen (or be considered), but I think anyone under the age of 55 or 50, who has not been at his current school for more than 10 or 15 years, is almost certainly going to strongly consider an offer from one of those schools.

I don't know about that. I think Izzo would because he has a good thing going in Michigan State.

But Calipari eventually has to get tired of playing in Conference USA and seeing his team get no national exposure during the regular season.

I think Donovan would actually have the biggest reason to move. Florida is not a basketball school, and while they support the team, it just doesn't hold a candle to football. At Kentucky it's the opposite, and Donovan would have the chance to be the center of attention at a prestiguous basketball school.

I think, in order to become a successful coach in the NCAA or NBA, you have to have a pretty healthy amount of ego. Most coaches that have reached this level and had any amount of success are not afraid to fail. Unless there are impending sanctions or some other sort of limiting factors (extreme budget cuts or something like that), I cannot imagine anyone being afraid to take on the "challenge" at Kentucky, particularly with all the benefits that come with the job.

I think you can look at the Indiana opening from last season as a good point of reference. Tom Crean left a very secure, high-paying job, where he had proven he could both reach the Final Four AND recruit NBA players. And, Indiana was in much, much worse shape than Kentucky is right now.

What would be the difference between now and two years ago? Other than the fact that Donovan has been in the NIT the last two years while Gillespie made the NCAAs last year while being named Co-Coach of the Year in the SEC with the supposedly weak players that Tubby Smith left.

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - Tubby's Gone!!!

If Donovan goes, that kills Bama's chances of getting VCU's Anthony Grant.

I don't Izzo would leave MSU unless it was for the NBA or AD at MSU.

The biggest thing with Donovan seems to be consistency, would Kentucky settle for a couple of down years that he seems to have mixed in with a couple of great years?

I think Calipari is the best bet out of those three, he recruits well enough that they would be back on top by year 2.

Hence the reason that 'Bama only gave Grant 5 days to decide. Everyone knew that the Kentucky firing was coming for some time now. 'Bama wants to make sure that he either commits or not. They don't want to get dragged into anything too drawn out while seeing other possible candidates hired by other programs in the meanwhile.

Mizzou has no 4 or 5 star players in their program right now, but they won 30 games. Anderson looks for athleticism, regardless of the recruits ranking. He's proven that he can find players that fit his system and excel in it. English, Denmon, Safford, and Bowers are all glowing examples of that. He did the exact same thing at UAB.

Gameday! Tigers vs. Tigers! Should be a fun game to watch.

We haven't talked about it much here and I've been intentionally not playing my CAA Homer role. But since you mentioned it...

If the rumors about what Bama is offering grant are true, then I'm relatively surprised. I'm hearing 2-2.5 mil per year. That would make him one of the highest paid coaches in the nation (I think top 5-10?). That's a lot of dough to throw at a guy who has not proven himself at the highest level yet. Don't get me wrong, I think Grant is a great coach and I think he will succeed at a BCS school, I'm just surprise that a school is backing up the Brinks truck for him.

Edit: I also hadn't heard about the 5 day thing.

I think that price has just as much to do with the current state of the 'Bama program as it does the coach. It's not exactly a marquee job. You're playing second fiddle no matter what.

Report is that he and his wife made their second trip to Alabama yesterday and stayed overnight last night to think on it. We'll probably hear something relatively quickly. Either he stays in town and agrees to be the coach or he heads back to Virginia to wait for other offers. Either way, he won't be at VCU next year. Too many good openings available.

Good luck Missouri fans.

I am going to try to stay off the Internet at work today. We will see how that goes.

COMPLETELY agree with your last statement. The VCU fans on the CAA board seem to be settling with the same idea.

I figure he ends up at one of these three:

Bama
Florida
Virginia

I actually think that money being equal he'd like them in this order - Florida, Virginia, Bama. But Florida may take too long and Virginia I don't think has the cajones to step up to the plate.


The next big thing lingering for the VCU fans is whether he takes Larry Sanders with him. They of course insist that Grant would NEVER do that, but they need to accept that it's certainly a possibility - especially if Florida is the winning school (Sanders is from FL).

I'm gonna try that too. (Insert obligatory Sports Night Orlando Rojas reference that only a few people will get).

Isn't Izzo from Michigan? I don't think he leaves MSU because he's home.

Yeah, but he's from the UP. A pretty far drive from East Lansing, but then again, anywhere else would be even further.

Donovan seems to be the name floating around the most here, and he almost took the job 2 years ago, so who knows. Since then he's had the embarrassing flap with the Orlando job and his team went from NCAA champs to also-rans in a hurry (even FSU has beaten them 3 or 4 years in a row, I believe). And at a football-only school, that's not good. So I could see him deciding to make that jump, seeing as though he probably didn't expect to have another shot at this particular job so soon.

One thing Gillespie hasn't done here is "wear the crown" of KY basketball like they expect. Donovan would clearly have that Pitino-like cult of personality that would ingratiate him to the fans/boosters. Gillespie hasn't done that, and combine it with losing (and his bizarre substitution patterns, which around here, even law firm secretaries know enough about basketball to critique), he's left himself with little safety net. He's kinda in the same position Charlie Weiss was in this past off-season - not winning enough and hasn't made enough friends at the school. Plus, he's had some not-so-publicized "issues" with alcohol and driving around Lexington - "allegedly."

FWIW, upwards of 2 million is what Georgia was rumored to be considering as well, although they denied contacting him.

He seems to have really hit the jackpot.

A) 2 NCAA tourneys in 3 years where he won a game and was within a makeable 2-pointer of winning another
B) His superstar G graduates this year
C) Several high-profile jobs opened this year
D) Some recent mid-major coaches have had good success making the jump (I.E. our boy Pearl)
E) There's not another young, sexy, up-and-coming mid-major coach right now.

So, C has caused almost a bidding war - or at least a pre-emptive bidding war for his services. You have an odd situation where there are several schools that have cash to throw around looking for a guy like him.

I think UGA would be a terrible spot for him fwiw. I know that a commentator for the AJC was pimping him, I just don't think that's a good match for him (although it would be great for UGA).

Dola:

I forgot..

F) Has turned down a BCS job(s) (i forget if it was multiple) in the past.

Signing the #1 recruit each of the last 3 years, and having top 5 recruiting classes each of those years probably indicates elite status too.

I guess it depends on your definition here.

When you say "elite basketball programs" it's about more than the team right now. It's about the overall history of the program. This is why Kentucky qualifies, even though they didn't even make the dance this year.

To me what you're saying is they're one of the best teams right now, but that does not necessarily mean they are an elite program.

Memphis reminds me a lot of UNLV during their heyday with Tark. Big run for a few years in a weaker conference with some good tourney runs and some questionable recruiting practices that land big recruits which could get them in trouble. For now, life is good in Memphis.

That job might be a bad situation for just about any coach with a bright future.

Last year's SEC tournament surprise was a fun diversion but even if they got to the sweet sixteen they'd take a back seat to football recruiting except perhaps while the game was taking place. By the next morning the game story would be sharing space with notes from spring football practice and within 24 hours the football story would move ahead of it.

The right fit would probably be someone who could recruit 3* players & then coach them up a little, get an occasional 4* in-state talent, keep the players out of jail & in the classroom, be good at the alumni/donor golf events but be satisfied with flying under the radar most of the time. It's that last bit that's probably hard to find in conjunction with those other things though. They sort of need the anti-Bruce Pearl in some ways, just find a decent coach that does the job where the team is concerned & doesn't need to self-promote or try to turn the program into something it will never be.

Good luck Memphis fans as well.. this should be a great game.

I'll have to DVR it since we have a soccer game at 8:00 tonight.

100% correct.

I would agree with this and that it does not make Memphis an elite program.

I would have different definitions depending on whether you were talking about elite basketball programs in history or elite basketball programs right now. When using the generic term "basketball program" I default to talking about now.

Using the word "program" does mean you have to consider more than this year (for which I'd use the word "team"). Over the last 10 years, Memphis has been one of the 10 best programs in the country. Kentucky has not. When considering whether or not a program is "elite" I think you need to weight the most recent XX years a little more than what happened 40 years ago (XX being in the eye of the beholder). Winning that first title really isn't all that relevant as to whether Oregon is an elite program.

I also think you're underrating Memphis' history a little. They were in the Missouri Valley and Metro conferences when both were considered "major" conferences, and made regular tournament appearances and a final four out of each. They are 26th in all time NCAA tournament wins, ahead of Wake Forest, St. John's, Mizzouri, Pitt, Notre Dame.


Not sure this is true. So far, all of his college success has been as a big fish in a small pond. Before leaving UMass for the NBA, he had other opportunities to move to a Big 6 school (probably got offers every year from 92-95). He chose to stay at UMass. When returning from the NBA, I am sure he got offers (or at least feelers) from any Big 6 team without an entrenched coach. He chose Memphis. He just seems to like that model.

I'm not arguing that Calipari doesn't have shady recruiting ties and violates the spirit, if not the letter of the NCAA rulebook. And while I'm certain he wasn't behind giving Camby money, he clearly knew - Camby was a poor kid from East Hartford walking around campus with a $25k necklace on. What I'm arguing is it's no different than what goes on at almost every other big-time school in the country, in both basketball and football. The idea that Memphis will "get their comeuppance like UMass" is based on both teams being outside the BCS and traditional NCAA power structure. Case in point, UConn has a pretty open and shut case that the NCAA is beginning to investigate (almost as open and shut as USC and Reggie Bush) but they're not going to get anything more than probation guaranteed. Bottom line, outside of a select few who refuse to play by the AAU rules (Gary Williams comes to mind) every coach has shady ties and is committing NCAA violations. Pretending that Cal is worse than others is only because other schools tend to have clout to keep rumors in house - we've already had allegations of coke use, banging players gf's and drunken-driving at major universities in the last 2 pages.

I do apologize for assuming you were a UConn fan. I get very annoyed when people assume I'm a BC fan based off my location.

The CBI Championship (best 2 out of 3) is UTEP versus Oregon State.

Yes, the same Oregon State that started the post-season 13-17, but is now 16-17.

College Basketball Invitational Update!! Beavers to Miners: You're Going Down | Bleacher Report

This is serious?

Beavers to Miners: You're Going Down

I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere, but I'm not feeling all that clever at the moment.

So I guess that means Stanford lost to OSU in the semis. I'll try to feign disappointment:

"Feh."

It would take a hell of a deal to get Izzo away from MSU. He's got the spot locked up for life and gets to run the program the way he wants to. Why give that up for some other school's whiny bitch fans who will half want to fire him if he doesn't turn around the school the year he takes over?

As long as he gets paid, which he will, I'm pretty sure he will be a Spartan until retirement.

Yes. The 2nd College Basketball Invitational has best 2 out of 3 game championship series.

http://cbi2009.com/

Oregon State and UTEP are going to play for the CBI title.

[/cue the crowd who hate post-season events that aren't official]

Yes, they lost in overtime.

Here's the other post-season tournament, the collegeinsider.com tournament:

CollegeInsider.com Postseason Tournament Schedule

The main difference between the two:

The CIT doesn't take teams with losing records and basically cast itself as the "mid-major" tournament, whereas the CBI is a straight up cash grab. Schools in that tournament have to pay a pretty large fee to participate, whereas the CIT only makes the home team pay a $2400 fee and then they keep all of the home gate and everything and the tournament pays the road team travel costs.


The CIT came about when the CBI moved its entire tournament to HDNet, Mark Cuban's personal TV fiefdom and that left Fox Sports Net without a college tournament to broadcast. So they're going to broadcast the final of the CIT now.

Please tell me more about these questionable recruiting practices. Once again, this is just you blowing smoke with no concrete proof or even anything substantial. Also, UNLV was doomed to fail because it was not built for success. Memphis has one the of best arenas, some of the best facilities, and one the best fanbases in the country. It has positioned itself nicely when the next conference shake-up happens.

When I used the term elite, I meant it more in terms of today then terms of the past. I think an elite program (the original argument was would Missouri bounce back like Kansas) today can have success year after year in the current college basketball landscape. Tradition is starting to matter less and less.

How many teams, right now, can go to Sweet Sixteen and the Elite Eight year after year? Memphis, UNC, Kansas, maybe Duke, UConn, and Michigan State.

w00t - guaranteed to have a Virginia CAA school in the CBI tourney final ;).

This game looks like it's being watched by about 1500 people. I know that's a big arena and they spread out some but the number ofempty seats at the outset is a ton. It's less than 5 yrs before they stop even bothering with actual tournament sites, just play these games in TV Studios.

I am looking forward to the Duke Nova game this week (I'm a Nova rooter to be fair). I'm curious to see whether either team tries to deviate from it's general offensive script. Both teams seem to want to play the same way so I think when you get that it's going to be a good game to watch. I don't know that I'd deviate(much), particularly if I were Jay Wright. You wonder if K will try to play a little slower and take Nova out of their game.

I'm shocked that Blair is getting manhandled in this game.

I'll be getting Nova-Duke tonight (which I think will be a great game) but really want to see MEM-MIZ too. I hadn't messed around with MMOD because of the delay, which combined with seeing the other scores on TV is a problem. But I just pulled up the zoom feature on my plasma and it could not be any more perfect as far as cutting off the scores on top.

haha nice idea. that bothers me too.

I think Purdue is gonna look back at the first few minutes of this half at the end of the game and kick themselves. UConn is flat as all get out and they haven't really gotten much done. Purdue is playing hard but poorly...

The Purdue-UConn game? It started at 5 local time in Arizona.

Thabeet is just dominating, but Purdue as bad as they are playing they are still in it.

Maybe, but 3/4 of the way through the game the second and upper decks appear totally empty.

Over 10,000 tickets (of a possible 35k) still available as of yesterday afternoon. $81 each, so basically $27 per game (but you have to buy all three games if you're going today).
Plenty of seats left for NCAA West regionals in Glendale - Phoenix Business Journal:

Xavier is imploding with turnovers.

Will be interesting to see if Miller can get them calmed back down.

Xavier is doing its best to give this game to Pitt

10,000 tickets left is suprising. None of these teams are remotely close to Glendale. If you're a big hoops fan though, you're possibly getting UConn Memphis next round which is a national championship level game.

I noticed last weekend's games didn't look to be quite full either. I wonder if the economy has taken a toll on the tournament.

Even in a good economy, the first round has issues with open seats. They play at weird times for TV and they often don't have a natural draw in the subregion.

I'd think also the general economy would prevent some of the not-quite diehards from following their team around the country, or at least causing people to hold off for the Final Four.