Why shouldn't we abandon them as an ally? If it stops being in our best-interest right now to support them, we absolutely should abandon them, bibical prophecies be damned. Sorry I don't buy into the whole religious-based argument.

It's said its temporary according to the article I posted:

"Egypt declared it was temporarily opening a crossing into the Palestinian territory after a raid on an aid flotilla that ended with Israeli soldiers killing nine activists."

"Egypt, which has enforced the blockade with Israel since Hamas militants seized control of Gaza in 2007, said it was opening the border for several days to allow aid into the area as a humanitarian gesture. It was unclear, however, when Hamas guards at the frontier would let people out. "

Well there are conflicting reports. From Reuters:

Where is our ally in the Middle East without them?

I find fault with this analogy due to the fact Israel was given their country. If your neighbor was kicked out of his house and your new neighbors were arrogant would you be nice too them? Your old neighbors would cry foul and find some way to seek retribution for thee offense.

I liken Israel to someone who bullies others knowing that they have a big brother willing to fight their battles for them. Has Israel always been the bully? No, but I do not blame the offended people of the region for revolting against Western imperialism.

Interesting. I'm guessing Egypt will be inspecting every piece of cargo.

I don't see Israel as the bully. A bully in this case would be someone who is trying to eliminate you without any reason to stop, not just because they're trying to protect and defend its people and country. In fact, I think if Israel didn't have the US backing, they would be a lot more aggressive. Israel seems like they've been a lot more aggressive since Obama came into office. I don't know if something is happening between the two governments that is causing this.

Throw in their illegal expansion and I think the bully label starts to fit a lot more.

Lately they've been more aggressive, but let's not forget their history either. I think they are showing more of a tendancy to act alone these days though, no question. They understand the position they have the United States in. What other US ally could act contrary to the US's wishes and know they can get away with it unscathed?

I just find it amazing that I caught the tongue-in-cheek of your remark & yet there were apparently some people who didn't.

Lets say Israel gives up all claim to the "illegal expansion" land (or maybe agree to the two-state solution), would that stop the Arab nations from wanting to destroy them?

Uh oh. Clinton throwing around terms like "untenable" and "unacceptable" in regards to the "situation in Garza". It appears that she has stopped short of smacking their bottoms and sending Israel to their bedroom with no supper.

Yeah. I've seen it explicity stated as such more than a few times over the past couple of years.

Well, you know, we kinda have a fellow NATO member in the region.

Any good sites/sources about Saudi Arabia and the other nations ready to recognize Israel? (Not questioning you, just don't remember hearing this.)

I just don't see why Israel is 100% the bad guy here.

The Turks didn't act innocently either.

Why try to run the blockade and not allow Israel or Egypt to inspect the cargo? If you got nothing to hide, why ignore it? They were warned ahead of them they wouldn't be allowed through. Throw on top of this that you know Israel doesn't take these things lightly. Both sides seem stupid and arrogant.

Don't get me wrong, I know the Turks aren't innocent here. They knew Israel would be forced to act and do something unpopular. I really doubt they expected people to die however.

The anti-Israel crowd were slow learners, but they are learning how to play the propaganda war and get people on their side. Some ships trying to break a blockade has proven a million times more successful than launching rockets into Israel.

Israel should have been a lot smarter, but again they showed that they simply don't care. Without fear of censure from the US, they act as they wish. The outcry from other nations and the UN doesn't mean a thing to them, they know it will probably all die down soon enough, like it has the other times.

I mean, they've been firing on Palestinian fishing boats, openly admitting that the Gaza blockade is an attempt to get Palestine's elected government voted out, annexing Palestinian lands and cutting off settlements from water, roads, and electricity, etc. etc. etc. The list goes on and on. They get away with it, so why would they stop?

I can understand your point. I just don't like how Israel is the "bad guy" in all these cases. They aren't the good guy either, but this recent situation just seems like Turkey set it up from the get-go.

Turkey opened the door, but Israel still chose to drive a bulldozer through it. But tensions have been boiling between the two nations for awhile now, thanks to petty little diplomatic insults like this:

Turkey protests Israel's insult, calls for apology [ WORLD BULLETIN- TURKEY NEWS, WORLD NEWS ]

The reason why Israel gets painted as the bad guy by some (certainly not all) is because, like I said above, this is just the latest in a long line of incidents they'll get away with, all while still claiming the moral high ground, and knowing that America will continue to back them regardless.

Judging from most of the people I've spoken to IRL who take the pro-Israel no-matter-what stance, it basically boils down to the fact that they hate and distrust Muslims, and really don't give a damn what Israel does to them. It's hard to justify their actions in any other way once you drill down into the nitty-gritty details.

Turkish aid group had terror ties - Europe- msnbc.com

Not surprising, given the different folks on board. Still doesn't excuse anything. What are the odds of Israel's FULL videotape of the exercise getting out, rather than the short pro-Israel footage they released? Naturally, they confiscated all film and video from the journalists and others on board the ships after they got them to Israel.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/eu...530449379.html


And then of course there's the US citizen who was shot once in the chest, and four times in the head from close range...

American Furkan Dogan Killed on Gaza Aid Flotilla - ABC News

Though, interestingly: Under Scrutiny, IDF Retracts Claims About Flotilla’s Al Qaeda Links

Didn't see the thwarted terror attack mentioned. Sounds somewhat similar to the attacks in India in that they were looking to sneak in via water transport.

FOXNews.com - Israel Navy Kills 4 Palestinian Militants Off Gaza

This is what happens when you have over 6 million of your people exterminated by the Nazis. You have Israel who is just not going to take shit from anyone, at all. It's kind of like the kid who was bullied all the time in school and decides to fight back, but, becomes an insufferable asshole in the process.

Interesting read. Opinion of what's happening between Israel and other countries and who's at fault......

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinio...cle2559280.ece

FYI: That appears to be a membership only site.

Nice developments according to Friedman. Hope yet at least for the West Bank.

Op-Ed Columnist - The Real Palestinian Revolution - NYTimes.com

My Way News - France declares war against al-Qaida

I agree with both the sentiment & their attack on a North African base camp, but that headline struck me as one of the most unexpectedly funny things I've seen in a while.

I fully expect to see a 'My Ways News - France surrenders to al-Qaida' headline within the next 24 hours. :D

Wow, so all it took for the French to finally give a shit about al-Qaida is the death of a 78-year old Frenchman.

(Realize it's a 2-month old post, and everyone has their own prior opinions on Israel being different than political theory when it comes to any other country, but...) At a certain point you can't pick and choose "allies" based on realpolitik flavor of the month. Abandoning them (or anyone) as an ally may be in our best interest and to our benefit in the short term, but it can ruin our trust with other "allies" and the ability to cultivate new ones.

On Israel in particular, are we supposed to abandon a democracy that's generally aligned with our basic principles in favor of whom, a repressive dictatorship like Saudi Arabia that funds the proselytizers of radical islam, or one in Iran run by a repressive cabal that violently cracks down on its own people when they want to vote for their own choice?

:)

So what are the chances Israel actually bombs Iran this weekend? I really cannot see it happening but I guess in the Middle East anything can happen.

This is as good a place as any, I guess.

Latest crisis in the Middle East.

Saudi Arabia-Iran row spreads to other nations
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/04/middle...ext/index.html

Yup. I like how Saudi Arabia is taking more of a leadership/forceful role here.

Check out the military stats of both countries. SA spends more but Iran has "more" quantity.

Iran vs Saudi Arabia Military Stats Compared

Terrible story out of Syria.

Chemical attack kills dozens in Syria as victims foam at the mouth, activists say - The Washington Post