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Duly noted 17 posts ago but I'm so glad you repeated it for those who may have missed it. I'm sure we'll get a better game because you did. I'm eagerly looking forward to you telling us this same information once again quite soon. It adds so much to the discussion. :) |
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Heh. That was kind of lame....
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Not as lame as this. |
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Of course, because noting a situation that might be a bug that could use looking at is unimportant but repeatedly saying you won't buy the game is important. Got it. You're only here to bitch, thus doing the only important thing you can do; proving my point. Thanks. |
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Agreed, but really, when discussing lameness is a scale really needed? :) |
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I was at Fenway for the rain delay yesterday so I am just now catching up. Let's say I was living in my mother's basement... wouldn't that make me the core audience for this sort of game? |
I don't know guys. Any game that comes out should work like it was advertised. And in that respect this one certainy has some shortcomings, such as waviers and the large number of very good free agents available at the end of the first season and so on.
However, in the league that I set up, I haven't seen any transactions where someone signs a huge contract and then is released. I have guys who are lifers for their teams and sign and resign big contracts with them. I don't have the problem of the big stars jumping to other leagues instead of staying in the one you want them in. I have interleague trading off, and my financials are set up in such a way where the other leagues dont have the money to offer those guys that would make them want to leave. I think that the playability of the game is underestimated in some respect and that there are things that can be done to get the experience that you desire out of the game itself. All I really have done is to let the AI sim and see what happens. I have not scrutinezed(sp?) things the way that some of you have, but in the hours that I have spent, I have found an entertaining product and one that is certainly capable of producing realistic player movement in and around the various leagues, as well as realistically modeling the desires of the individual players whether it be to play more in a lower league for less money, or to sit on the bench and earn bigger money in a more prestigious league. This to me, is where the game seems to succeed. |
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This is the most meaningless post I've read in this thread yet, and DAED was the clearcut winner until now. Because some of us have played the demo and can only see some of the issues, but have read thread after thread of the same issues as 6.5 has, we're thrashing the game? Ok, noted. In fact, let me note that in Microsoft one note. Done. Should we copy and paste stuff from the blogs that specifically point out the issues? Should we call Troy and others who do own the game liars? Sheesh... since when does pointing out displeasure about a game you wish to purchase considered meaningless thrashing? It's so blatently obvious for those of us who like the MLB model and play solo - the issues with the game at this point. Now, we can move on (see BB Mogul) or we can post the issues. Unfortunetly, I can only go as far as the demo takes me... so I hope those that do have the game can get some seasons under their belt and help Marc and crew get the information to Markus. |
So, Axxon ... did they pay you in US Dollars, British Pounds, or Euros?
If you want to suck their dicks, head over to the OOTP forums, I'm sure there'll be a folder for that & you can have a blast & maybe even get a reacharound while you're at it. But I'll just be damned if your telling anybody here what they should or shouldn't post doesn't come off like some serious fanboy bullshit. Ray f'n Charles can see the problems with this game, so if you don't care for the comments then go tell the buckass naked emperor to get some clothes. |
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Dude, what I'm talking about is parroting what others has posted vs trying out the product and reporting issues. If you find issues in the demo and report them, great. If you want to say once that you are unhappy with what you're reading, fine. If, to use an example you want to have multiple posts that just say it sucks and glad you didn't buy it, not so good. It does nothing to help make the situation better. That's what I'm railing against, not the demo users who have issues though admittedly my post didn't make that clear. It's the people who have nothing to add to the discussion except, "see, it sucks" that I'm opposed to and they exist in every new game thread. |
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What's with everyone trying to push the gay agenda on me? I don't swing that way Jon, not even for a bitter, no comprehension hypocrite like yourself. I guess it makes sense, your fantasies about me got you so worked up you didn't realize that I really didn't tell anyone to like the game or that it was good. I just said if you don't even play it, you should let those who play it and can report the fucking problems, report the fucking problems. If that's sucking dick then you have a pretty liberal definition of the term but like everything else you spew, it's all crap and we know it. |
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Why? I don't get that at all. |
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I must have missed something. That said however, if you don't want the reference to come up in this particular thread, then don't come across like some lovestruck bitch upset that well deserved criticism had been leveled at their favorite beefcake. Quote:
Here's the problem -- that's not your fucking call. And trying to make it so does nothing except make you look like nothing more than a fucking brain dead fanboy, which deserves calling out every bit as much as the sorry ass state of OOTP and as much as SI deserves calling out for releasing a game in such a sorry condition. Don't like being called out on it? Then do yourself a favor & STFU. |
It's funny, anyone that likes the game is instantly a fanboy now.
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Fixed that for you. |
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You're calling me out? Not really. You, who have made countless posts without even admitting playing the game. You, who want me to believe that you have any knowledge of the subject when you haven't even done that? Now, I wonder who sounds like they're on a payroll Joe, I mean Jon. Seems clear that between the two of us you'd be the more likely candidate seeing how I've played the game and pointed out real issues and you haven't but have gleefully mocked their effort. Hope the money was worth it bud. |
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Hah, you fixing things. I get it. The fix is in. Hope you enjoy the money bud. |
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Heh, don't even have to say you like the game. Just playing it makes you one to those who'd rather play the online hate game than an actual game. |
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"Spouting bulllshit and trying to intimidate those who call me on it" would be my guess. |
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I'm afraid that while I aim to please our customers my dick is off-limits, my wife wouldn't be particularly pleased if it wasn't ;) With regards to any problems with OOTP - obviously we'd prefer there to be no issues at all with the game, however when a sim is rewritten from scratch there are often teething issues .. Markus & Co are hard at work ironing them out and we'll be doing our utmost to support and improve the game in the coming months as we do with all our products. If you can post these problems in the appropriate forums/threads or email them to us then that will obviously help us continue to improve the game - however abusive comments (from either side of the debate) don't really help anyone so please try and keep them to a minimum. |
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I'm afraid that I'm on the side of those who want the game to be improved so there is no other side of the debate but I'm against those who won't play the game and I don't really consider that a side. Still, I understand your point. Jon, you want the last word you go ahead and shit on the thread. You want to address me, have the guts to start a new thread or take it to PM. No need defeating my own purpose of improving the game dealing publicly with a paid shill like yourself in the thread. OK, I'll stop abusive comments after I push "Submit Reply." :) |
Can we not get one of our 400 mods to drop in a slap a few of the folks in this thread?
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May I ask on who? Seriously. It got a bit heated grant you but I don't think anyone went to the point of deserving a boxing. |
Wow, this thread took a real turn for the worst.
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My first impression: Wow this is complicated! Second impression: ... and buggy as f-u-c-k (5 crashes first day) Third impression: ... and the ai sucks and the in-game sim is broken and they killed my favorite features and didnt add anything I wanted Having paid $35 I hope Ive got the right to post those thoughts in a 'first impression' thread without posting every bug-track number for every bug I reported. Hope that helps! ;) |
Back on topic. . .
At this point I think we all know where we stand. We have a group of people who refuse to buy the game and are amused by the state it's in. (I hold nothing against this group of people, had I not ordered the game I'd be thinking the same thing) You have a group of people who think the game is broken beyond repair. You have a group of people who want to give SI a chance to fix it and are willing to give input into that process. (As I bought the game and I love the potential, I sit in this group) You have a group of people enjoying the game. (I'm as baffled as anyone as to how that's occuring, but it's OK, to each his/her own) Now is the time we all need to take a step back and wait. l'm not with SI and I have had no discussions with any of them on a patch schedule, but I'd be shocked to see a quick fix. I think they need to take time with this one and I think they will. |
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Be careful. :D Can we get back to posting issues within the game? I've done all I can do with a demo that lasts 6 months, now it's up to those who have PAID. I would be willing to help look over a website posted almanac/history if someone like Troy can upload one. I think most of what we've talked about has already been posted in the tech support forums and there is another thread over at ootp forums that pepple are posting the solo play issues with a current MLB type setup. I do find it funny how a fucking game gets people all worked up when things are pointed out that need fixed, addressed, or at least looked at. There have only been a handful, if that, of games that are near perfect when released, everything else deserves the help of those who want it to be. |
Just a question (and it might have been addressed somewhere in this thread), but has anyone asked for a refund at this point in time? It seems to me that this might be the best course of action. The $ always speaks the loudest. I haven't played/bought the demo/game, but if what I'm reading is correct (not making any indications that it is or isn't), I'd ask for a refund ASAP.
We, the consumers, need to start really putting our foot down and try to put an end to this "75% complete" trend that has come up over the past few years in the software industry. |
i havn't bought the game yet but count me in the camp of those who hope/believe that SI will get this thing patched to the point that after playing the demo I would be willing to buy it. It doesn't have to be perfect for that to happen, but it needs to be better than it currently is.
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Philliesfan, I don't think they offer a refund unless it does not work on your system.
DT, count me in the same camp.. I've had my credit card out more than once to buy this game.. I'm getting better at holding off. :) |
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It does but the more errors you do report the better the chance they get fixed of course. :) |
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If that's aimed at me then it's dishonest at best. I have already stated that things need to be addressed, fixed and looked at. I just wish that these things be reported on by those playing the game and I already said to you specifically that those playing the demo count. If that is at someone else then that's fine. :) |
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Thankfully, the posting of the detailed results saved me from wasting my time on yet another failure by your Euro buddy. Why in the blue bloody hell would anybody need to even waste the time to download when the failures are obvious with even the slightest examinations of the HTML reports? Pitchers in the outfield, senior citizens in Rookie ball, and an entire seasons worth of transactions for a whole organization taking place in a two week span of somebody's AA team. My God fanboy, the problems are in black & white for the world to see ... or at least for anyone willing to stop kissing ass long enough to see them. If you want to keep praising the Emperor's wardrobe, that's your choice. But seriously fuck you to hell & gone if you think you're going to attack those who have the audacity to {gasp} speak the truth about this abomination and then get a free pass for your bullshit. You wanna suck up, they've got a whole forum for you to do that in. |
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Ding, ding, ding. Most spot-on post of the entire thread. Alas, there's plenty of evidence that it'll never happen, there's too many sheeple. |
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Thanks for the compliment. It doesn't just apply to this game either, it really spans the entire video game genre (both PC and Console). Maybe I'm just getting older, or crankier ;), probably a combination of the both. But its not even really the money. The $29.95 or $34.95 or in the case of console games $49.95 - $59.95 isn't what really bugs me, its the time that I feel that I wasted. As a busy professional, I enjoy my downtime, but nothing will upset me more than playing around and starting a season and 4 hours later on a Sunday afternoon, I find all these really obvious bugs that should have been pointed out during the Beta testing process. I'm not really a fussy guy either - if someone hits 50 hrs that should have only hit 35-40, thats fine. A wierd trade here or there, its fine - there are bad GM's out there in real life too. But the consistancy of the reports out there is what drives me to the no purchase decision. JIMG, I agree with you that there's no chance of this trend stopping anytime soon. We're all starved for the next great text sim/madden/NCAA,etc that we'll continue to buy each product they churn out (well most of us anyway). I've just gotten to the point that enough is enough - Madden has been around for what... 16-17 years now? OOTP is on its 7th creation. Its just time to say enough is enough, you guys can't get it right, and move on. The fact that they are still messing around with AI issues at version #7 is very disappointing. |
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Missed your post replying to me. (retracted) :) |
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Fair enough. :) |
The good ol FOFC is getting quite a bit publicity, well that is if anyone reads this guy's blog.
http://www.calvertgames.com/cgblog/index.php Good Grief I was pointed to a thread over at Front Office Football Central.com that is 21 pages long and filled with some of the most idiotic posts I've read in a long time. Nothing like taking legitimate complaints about a product and turning them into an unseemly mess. There is one thing I would like to point out about a couple of the posters in that thread. Some of them spend a lot of time helping Shaun Sullivan with his PureSim line. So I would take their colorful complaints with a big old grain of salt. Again, most everyone here treat every sports sim and game for that matter the same way. Puresim has been scrutinized as well. It just so happens that Puresim does NOT have waivers nor 40 man rosters nor some other of the ambitious things ootp 2006 has. I will point out that Puresim hasn't been around near as long either. Personally, I've played ootp 6.5 more than any other baseball sim to date. However, as I said, there are some legitimate concerns. The waiver/trade/extension AI in OOTPB 2006 seems busted at this point. You can read all 21 pages of the reactionary garbage on that forum, but that is what it boils down to. Why hasn't this been written on your blog site? or are you saying not that you've read all 21 pages, this is new news to you? Now, let me say something about the OOTPB 2006 beta team. All of the beta team members that chatted with me during the testing process wanted the release delayed. All of them. But you are witnessing the thankless job beta testing is both in the FOFC.com and OOTP forums. These testers pointed out many flaws, but the game was released anyhow. Then you get idiots like "lynchjm24" in the FOFC.com boards assuming that these very dedicated and selfless baseball fans are dolts. Well, most of the users on here and over at the ootp forums do NOT talk to the beta testers on a regular basis.. this includes lynchjm24, who by the way HAS given SI his $35. So who is to blame for the current state of OOTPB 2006? Sports Interactive and Markus. Period. Please stop bashing the testers. I've talked to a beta tester as well and he also said the same thing, the game was released way too early, about 3 months in his opinion. Realistically, when any game, say Madden has a glaring issue, the beta testers always get blamed. It's a fact life, whether it's true or not. Most have been around long enough to know beta testers can only report the issues, it's up to the programmer to address and fix them. Now, to their credit, SI is trying to fix the game and is assembling a new crew to help them with the process. Hopefully this new team will help fix the waiver/trade/extension AI and can improve the intentional walk problems. And get some people on the team who play in online leagues so they can help fix the draconian file system and make it more online league friendly. Amen. I think it's going to take some time though, so patience is needed. But repeat after me - SI and Markus are responsible for the current state of their game. Nobody else. Can't really disagree here. It's going to be taken as "bashing", but I would think Markus knew the at least the waivers issues would bring a ton of scrutiny his new product. - Chris Johnson |
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Put me in this camp. Now, I'm not going to say that parts of the game aren't broken, but they largely happen to be the parts of the game that I've always turned off because I didn't want to fuck around with them (i.e., waivers, rule 5, etc.). I've always turned them off not necessarily because they were broken, but because I wanted to fast sim and those features interfered with my ability to shove guys back into the minors when I wanted to. Not real baseball circa 2006, maybe, but not a big deal to me. I've been able to get around some of the weird transactions and superstars going to weenie leagues via thoughtful financial setups, so that hasn't been a bummer for me either. I saw some odd transaction stuff early on in a MLB league created from Lahman, but not enough to get my nose out of joint. It would have if I hadn't just quick-simmed the first twenty years to get some history, but again, I always quick sim a history, so this isn't a big deal for me, and with my league configurations, the odd transactions disappeared after a few years. I'll admit that I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to sports simulations, so I've got that going for me too. The point is that I've got the game and I'm digging it despite its flaws. I'd like to see these flaws fixed (but even if they fix waivers and stuff, I'll never turn them on), but overall, I'm happy with my purchase. |
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I bolded the line which fascinates me. Color me reactionary and unhelpful, but I don't think I'll be spending my hard-earned coin on this game, this cycle. |
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That doesn't surprise me one bit really (as I've alluded to at least a couple of times earlier in the thread). It wouldn't be the first time that Markus has steadfastly refused to listen to members of a beta team when they offered anything other than fodder for his ample ego. |
dola,
my replies are in bold.. just for clarification... |
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I'm a little confused Chris, if you happen to still be reading. 1) What do the guys helping Shaun and PureSim have to do with the state OOTP was released in? Are you stating the issues pointed out in this thread don't exist? (nah, I guess we get to that later in the story, don't we?) 2) So lynch made a snide comment to the beta testers. Shortly after he made it many people chimed in about not knowing what the beta team said and the most critical guy in this thread stated that he believed the beta testers probably did point out the flaws, but they were ignored. (It's a 20+ page thread, you may want to keep reading) 3) Thread like these are great because they are a constant brainstorm of information. The title of the thread isn't "OOTP Final Review - here is what sucks about the game. . ." It's first impressions. The good gets mentioned with the bad. You have people who love the game and say so and people who despise the game and say so. At FOFC, we don't just slam a game without cause. Every complaint in this thread is backed up with facts and reasons behind the concern. I keep hearing how ridiculous this thread is and how we are a bunch of idiots who just want to bash the game. ENOUGH. If you can refute ANY of the complaints in this thread, by all means do it. Tell us our concerns are invalid and the reason why that is the case. I look forward to hearing from you. This thread, depite its chipiness toward the end of it, is what makes FOFC great. |
By the way, the biggest disappointment for me with OOTP2K6 is the sim speed and memory leak issues. I've got an older system (1.8 Ghz, 1 Gig ram), but I'm not seeing anything close to the advertised sim times for a season. It often takes 45 minutes to an hour to get through a calendar year.
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Hyperbole. How can every complaint be backed up with facts when some of the loudest ones are based on hearsay? |
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I'm actually pretty fascinated by this impression of Markus. We've got a couple of beta testers over in the FOBL who worked (and continue to work) really hard helping to iron out some aspects of the game. They've said over and over again that Markus is more than happy to make AI changes if the beta testers support their proposals with hard evidence. It seems like Markus is actually a pretty math oriented guy, and for him to clearly see the problem, he needs to have it presented to him in mathematical terms, but once he *does* see it, he fixes it. And anyone who thinks that we might be fanboys hasn't spent any time over at the FOBL. :) |
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{shrug} I can only speak from direct personal experience. Someone else's mileage may vary. |
I do agree with the blogger in SOME regard regarding Puresim, and I'm in the same camp. Fair or not, I have some bias towards SS in wanting his sim to work well, because he seems to be an upfront guy, and is VERY eager to correct problems. Not saying that Marcus isn't, I think SS just goes the extra mile with regards to customer service (in my eyes).
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I remember when SS started this back in the usenet days. I agree that he really cares about the sim and wanting it to work. |
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Yeah, I agree. It just goes to show how people really rally around someone who doesn't come off as pompus/arrogant, which is what Shawn seems to be in a nutshell. Funny how attitude will build a lot of goodwill ;). |
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I love how you act like you've got a direct line into God because you 'chatted with some Beta testers". Wow, that's pretty big time. Funny, I don't remember one of the tester's blogs being about roster/waiver/trade AI. They had no problem pumping up the game, go back and read the happy horseshit they wrote. Yes, they are so dedicated and selfless. It's quite a chore to beta test a computer baseball game. Please, they aren't out clothing lepers, save the drama. Quote:
This is also pretty clearly directed at me. If you read this thread as closely as you say you have, you'd likely notice at the beginning how much I wanted to like this game. I won't bother going back to quote myself, but the game does some impressive things. Of course, the fact that almost none of them work doesn't seem to bother a pretty sizeable amount of people. If what you say is true and the beta testers were against the release then why should I believe that SI is intelligent enough to fix this game, when clearly they were so stupid as to ignore that very salient advice? Quote:
Of course, I guess it's ok for you to rant when it's a feature that you aren't happy with. If I mention that the game is an unplayable trainwreck, I'm an idiot. If SI doesn't do what you want, then they are 'asinine'. |
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I'm not really looking for goodwill but I do like and root for Shawn. :) oops isn't it Shaun? :) |
Funny stuff... Lynch is quoting and talking to someone who didn't actually post here! Is that a FOFC first?
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I get the impression that Jim GA doesn't like the "Euros." ;) |
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Most of it was posted by someone else. I just stumbled upon the last little bit when I followed the link. He's right though, I'm an idiot. For buying the game. |
I read some of this guy Chris Johnson's "blog" and came across something interesting in his initial OOTP 06 impressions:
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So I can take away from that that this guy is good friends with former-DC Mayor Marion Barry.:D |
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You're not an idiot for buying the game, don't sweat it. We were all juiced up for it. |
Cardinals already played today.. so I'm bored.
Here's more from Mr. Johnson: Quote:
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If he played "solo" he wouldn't be happy with that portion either. Quote:
I think for solo players, the highlighted portion sums it up nicely. |
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Don't worry I wouldn't report you, I don't consider your comments a problem. |
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Studying your posts and IP, are you sure your not my favourite troll "James" |
This thread does appear to be taking the wrong route now so before it crashes and burns I'd like to close my part off by saying that is indeed an important patch for SI and whatever your opinions of the game and your problems we are listening and work begins today on Patch2.
Some of you seem to have made up your mind about the game already but if you haven't and you are interested in helping us fix some of your biggest issues I will stress again that I am putting together a team of people from various forums to work with us on patch2. It matters not to me if the issue is a longstanding one, Markus is committed to making the best baseball game ever and we are firmly behind him. Threads like this only go to show me how much passion and perhaps how popular the game is or will be. I'll do my best to report back with patch2 progress and no doubt some of the members of this forum will also be posting as they get regular builds for testing. Thanks for all the constructive comments and hello to all the trolls. |
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not so much for your benefit, because I know you wont back down from any of your wrong assumptions about life, but there are still some open-minded people reading this clusterfuck... the suggestion that Markus doesn't listen to members of the beta team is just flat-out wrong. He listened to testers a great deal; the number of features/changes in the game brought about by direct feedback from the testers is immeasurable. And that's from personal experience, not some he-said, she-said crap or you feeling a disturbance in the force, or whatever other bullshit method you want to invent to grind your proverbial axe. |
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If you can fix the trade AI / waivers issue (ideally to FM level, but at a minimum where it's not easy to exploit the AI or easy to spot really stupid AI trades), I'd probably pull my credit card back out based on the demo. |
I've played a few seasons forward to see what happens and found another problem. The team personnel seem to have auto-renewed contracts as I never once lost a staff member or signed an extension. They also don't gain any experience as the years role by. My pitching coach in year three had zero years of experience even though he'd been with me the whole game.
I would also love to have a personal message when a player moves from arbritation eleigible to free agent eligible during the season. I've lost a couple of guys because I wasn't diligent about checking contract status every month. And now I'll probably put aside the game until patch two as the AI problems really are killing the fun. |
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Difficult for me to correlate FM to OOTP since FM is so much more mature but I'm confident that we can improve the AI and you will get your card out! |
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Ah...but is it? Maybe the code is more mature, but the thinking/development that's been going into the AI has been developed for 7 versions now. |
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Sounds good Marc. I'm certainly not one who gripes about the issues and then sits by while others help. I would be willing to go through logs or generated website leagues to help in fixing these issues if needed. I haven't bought the game yet, nor do I want a free copy, so anything I can do to help along those lines is fine with me. |
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You mean like having had the misfortune of being on an OOTP beta team in the past? Like having watched as developer arrogance & ignorance boiled attempts at explanation and improvement down to "I'm right, you're wrong, I am ze baseball expert here". Sorry if being a part of the pitiful excuse for a process isn't method enough to suit you, feel free to take a long walk off a short pier to make yourself feel better. Defend all you want DD but the proof in is the multi-generational errors, which have been pointed out even more times than you've said something stupid. edit to add: In theory, it's possible that SI could exert enough control to force necessary changes to be made. That's essentially the faint thin hope I referred to having for the newest version of OOTP earlier in the thread. Clearly, that has not happened to date, perhaps they'll do better future forward but that's something I really don't believe warrants much faith until we see a lot more evidence of it. If they manage to pull it off, I'll consider it one of the most remarkable acheivements in both gaming history and personnel management I've ever seen. |
Have to add a couple of other observations after looking around before closing my career.
There wasn't a single scout or coach below ML level that was rated in double digits at any skill. There also seems to be no development of scouts/managers as the same set gets shuffled around the league. The owner's expectations are too tied to the previous year's record. In year two I was expected to reach the playoffs but I slid under .500 after a series of bad trades. In year three I'm expected to play .500 ball. My owner should be pissed and demand that I reach the playoffs or else. |
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Oh goody, another "expert" heard from. I honestly don't recall a single good idea from anyone involved in that debacle being heeded, although the fanboy love sometimes got a good response. But hey, maybe I'm just overly sensitive. After all, having an AI that responds to baseball situations in a manner appropriate to baseball is just a silly little personal quirk that I should be ashamed of myself for having. How dare I worry about that. |
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Jon you've still yet to answer my question. What is your favorite game?. |
Jon, your initial point is very valid. Your further behavior however is about as childish as a grown man could act. We understand your point, but your continuing temper tantrum is very unflattering.
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I get attacked repeatedly and respond to it, but I'm having a tantrum? Damn Desmond, how much shit do you honestly expect me to sit & take? |
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There's hundreds here who wish that answer was "nowhere near this much" |
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Never saw the question apparently, or didn't answer at the time & forgot to go back to it. Sorry about that. As for "favorite" depends on how you want to break it down. Games (at least pc sports text sims) that I've spent the most hours with? Never tried too hard to keep track of it, but off-hand I'd say that FOF is up there (mostly due to several careers that ran around two decades or more), I've spent a lot more time than I would have ever expected with TPB 2005, a lot of hours with CM 03-04. And quite possibly more total hours on Oliver Copp's TNM wrestling game than any other pc game ever. Further back, I spent a lot of time, relative to my total pc gaming at least, with FPS Baseball. More recently, I went through a reasonably long run with EHM 2005 and actually got a good month or more out of BM 2006, as well as still doing some lather-rinse-repeat stuff with the aforementioned TPB 2005. I really wanted to get into TEW 2005 & spent a goodly number of hours with it relative to my total pc gaming but some of that time deserves an asterisk or something just because of the clickfest nature of the game (it's just not something that you can play much without investing a lot of time into). Games that I thought did the best job of what they tried to do? SAT Pro (the translation of the First and Ten dice & chart game to pc), various versions of CM, and a game that I never got around to buying but thought handled itself well based on the demo called Flying Shale (speedway bikes in the UK of all things). That's far from an exhaustive list and I'm sure I've left off some stuff that I should have mentioned, but maybe that goes some way toward answering your question. |
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Brilliant! |
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1. Lying about the game 2. Being idiots |
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Of course, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they all signed NDAs and would risk legal action by releasing information without permission. Be patient. These issues will be worked out. Talking about things you know nothing about doesn't do any good and it reconfirms your jackassery. |
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I don't think either is true to be frank, there are some very intelligent people who helped with the beta testing. With any product what one person see's as a 'game killing' bug another might see as minor (or even not notice). Markus is working hard to ensure that any reported problems are rectified as promptly as possible and that the game evolves to fulfil its promise. Obviously we'd have preferred it to be perfect upon release, but that obviously hasn't been possible (although believe it or not I do expect there are a fair few happy people playing it - as I indicated different people look for different things :) ). Please report any problems you find which you want rectified on the OOTP boards and help the game continue to improve, it might surprise you to know but we generally recruit our off-site beta testers from disgruntled malcontents (nice turn of phrase I know, but hopefully you realise what I mean :) ) generally rather than from 'fan boys' simply because they often are the people who spot the minutae of detail that will make our games correct and that little bit 'special' when people play them. |
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I think you are missing the point. A lot of the problems that exist have existed through numerous iterations of the game and still haven't been fixed over the years and yet "new" features keep being added while these issues that need to be fixed, are not. Poor AI and the waiver wire have been a thorn for many people and yet, year after year, those issues still reside. I own OOTP 3 through to 6 and I vowed not to buy the update to 6.5 or any other version until the AI was better and the ridiculous waiver wire issues were fixed...guess I'll be holding onto my money a while longer. |
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I agree with you and I have not bought the game either, but wanted to add a further point. Since you have not bought the product you currently do not have any financial stake in the game. Marc has said earlier in this thread that he is aware of the issues from previous versions still existing in this version. He has stated a couple of times that he wants to fix these issues and make them right. The ball is in his court, all you and I can do is wait and see what they do. I think in the last couple of days, Marc has said that they know the ball is in their court, they just need some more time to fix them. Time will tell if they fix these issues, but I think we are past the point where we need to try convince them that these issues have lingered from version to version and need to be fixed. They know these issues need to be fixed, lets see what happens. Off to read another 20 pages of threads on FM so I can figure out how I want to setup my league. :) |
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What was your order number? I've no pre-order from you "James" from Seattle... |
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No, I see your point (dont get confused with the two Marc's from SI) I see your point, I am pushing to get this all worked upon for patch2. I've assembled a team of FOFC testers and others to help tell us exactly what theye think is wrong |
man, the wireless internet you're leaching goes down for 5 days and you completely miss the downfall of OOTP. I can only say that I purchased the game, began to set up a league, stopped and said it isn't worth my time right now, and promptly went back to FM.
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Nope...you've once again missed the point. If you are talking about fixing all this stuff in PATCH 2 then you don't have a clue about what I'm talking about. All of this stuff should've been addressed several years ago, not now. That's the point. If they've been trying to fix the issues over the years then they've obviously missed the boat or don't understand what's wrong. I don't know how the latter could be possible with the thousands of threads started over the last couple of years talking about the AI problems, but apparently if you guys need to assemble "a team of FOFC testers" to identify these problems, then I shouldn't be surprised. So, I'm curious, during beta testing, were the beta testers satisfied with the way the AI worked?? Did they report any issues with the way the AI handled trades or the waiver wire?? If the problems were reported, was the plan all along to fix the issues in a patch somewhere down the road?? It seems really odd to me that after playing the demo for a couple of hours that I would see silliness like a top team dropping their best player (top of several offensive categories after two months) on the waiver wire in favour of a guy hitting just over .100 in AA and the beta testers never saw anything like that at all in the, I'm hoping, hundreds of hours they spent testing. Does that sound right to you? |
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Now we're talking. ;) |
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This is the first version of OOTP released from SI. Wait or do not wait until patch 2 arrives. If it's not fixed then do not buy it. But neither Marc was ever involved in the other versions of OOTP, so you can blame Markus about the issues that get carried over from version to version. |
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I don't know, read your boards - they have never anything close to this negative about OOTP. |
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I'm not blaming Marc at all, but because he's the service rep, he gets to wear it...that's his job. My point is why do we have to wait for the second patch for something that should've been fixed years ago?? Both SI and Markus are to blame for that. Markus either hasn't tried or hasn't been successful in fixing it over the years and SI is responsible for putting out this game with the exact same flaws...despite a brand new rewrite. I'd still like to know how stuff like this gets through beta testing... |
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Not to pile on and this is more or less out of curiousity. But has anyone else noticed less action in the mod community of OOTP this year? I know in years past there were tons of rosters, facepacks, etc at all times. I know they gave the game to a lot of the roster makers and such early. This is the first year I can ever remember that they didn't have a MLB roster set within a week or two. Doesn't look like the MLB set is coming through anytime soon either. Not sure if that is a new SI thing, but Markus always seemed to give the mod guys big headstarts.
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RainMaker, I suspect that's because of a) the difficulty with customization (they actually have to create a guide for this thing, and in my experience not everything works) and b) the guide isn't finished yet.
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Since I was not involved in the game for the previous versions I cannot say that I know about such long standing issues Quote:
yes, the beta testers reporting many many things wrong with the game and loads of it got fixed. Whilst it's regrettable that we seemingly didnt get it all fixed in time (or fixed to we offer a post sales service in the way of support and patches and it's what we are working towards |
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