2 straight errors by Uggla. It ain't looking good for the NL.

But Cook gets three ground balls and it's still tied!

What a game!

Come on NL. Win a freaking All-Star game.

Screw you McCarver. This game is going to end on the field.

this is a great game

wowow. What a game!

NO!!!!! NAVARO OUT AT HOME! What a game.

What a play! Hate to give a Dodger props but Martin did one hell of a job catching that short hop.

what a play!

So the AL only has Sherril left before they'll have to use Kazmir.

Uggla with the chance to be a hero in the end, this is perfect.

doh, never mind.

And Uggla strikes out. In comes Sherril to face Gonzales with home field advantage in the World Series on the line!

not been a great game for Uggla

I want to hear "WHEN IT COMES CRASHING DOWN AND IT HURTS INSII-IIDE!!"

And then have Lincecum emerge from the bullpen.

These games end way to late for the east coast

Except he didn't apply the tag at home, and neither did Tejada on Kinsler at 2nd.

Wow, Uggla almost with another error at 2nd.

And credit where it's due - Joakim Soria's Curveball is filthy.

Unbelievable. This game just won't end.

LOL at the shot of Selig!

Well, that's it. This is officially hilarious.

Let's play 13! Boy am I glad I'm on the west coast right now.

I feel bad for him. The Marlins were in town playing the Dodgers last week, so the local paper had one of those space filler side stories on him that was pretty good. Apparently his dad used to take him on three hour train trips from Ohio or somewhere like that just to see the Yanks (they were originally from NY), and he was saying it was their shared dream to see Uggla play on the Bronx stadium field. Ouch, welcome to the nightmare, dad.

I don't want the AL to lose but if they do, I hope it is with Uggla hitting a walkoff homer.

I missed that. What'd they say?

They should have a rule where the 2 closest teams from each league hosting the game ( in this case the Mets and Yanks) each supply whatever pitcher is starting the game after the break so there is a fresh arm that can go long once all the pitchers are used

Maybe Hamilton's BP coach can give it a go?

he's probably more worn out then the guys who started games on Sunday

Nothing. They just showed him looking bored. I'm sure he's also getting worried that another tie game fiasco is becoming very possible as the AL only has Kazmir left. Another tie would be hilarious! Would they flip a coin for home field?

How about a designated "Goat of the First Half". If there are no more pitchers left, then you put in the GOFH, who pitches until the game ends, no matter how long it goes. I nominate Barry Zito for the NL

Why did this team have six closers again? :rolleyes:

Fan selected, of course. AL fans pick the NL goat. NL fans pick the AL goat. Can't wait to see both such selected players give a room full of reporters the bird. :)

They keep talking about Francona having Kazmir on a pitch count and then not letting him go back out there. Well, if it goes 15-16 innings (and I am definitely rooting for it) what are the options?

A - Move Kazmir to the field and have a position player pitch? (The Red Sox have been accused of messing up the Mets 1st-round picks' arm by making him throw from catcher pre-draft.)
B - Tell Kazmir to start lobbing BP Pitches that don't strain his arm?
C - Get an exemption from Selig and bring in a previous pitcher?
D - Home Run Derby?
E - Call it a tie again? (Homefield?)
F - Start with a runner on 3rd or some crazy scheme?

Wow - Hahaha Uggla. God hates you.

LOL! 3rd error for Uggla! What a bad night.

What league does Chan Ho Park pitch in again? And does Brett Myers count down in AA? :D

someone wake up Jeff Weaver

They might have to bring in Dennis Eckersley and Gaylord Perry.

Sherrill's flat cap bill is bugging the hell out of me... :mad:

Great game though!

From blog by Pete Abraham:

"1:01 a.m.: Dan Uggla could be the first player DFA'd during an All-Star Game."

I didn't even think of this earlier on my list - I'm pretty sure in Boston games can't start an inning after 2am or something like that. Does NY have a similar rule? I mean, they simply couldn't suspend the game right?

McCarver is starting (well, increasingly so) to annoy me. Continually talking about how Francona will say enough is enough and not send Kazmir back out. Well then, what is the plan Tim? Would Francona stop the game? He clearly doesn't have that authority.

Most of these would be pretty awesome......

I can't believe MLB didn't have a contingency plan for this...Actually I can.

Kazmir looked bad walking that guy on 4 pitches...wow.

So what about this?

If it's a tie...the World Series goes 2-2-1-1-1. First two in the park of the team with the best record, second two in the park of the other. Game 5, if necessary, in the park of the team with the best record. Game 6, if necessary, in the other team's park.

Game 7...Yankee Stadium. Wrigley if the Yankees make the World Series, some place like Kaufman if both the Cubs *and* the Yankees make the World Series. Flip a coin before the game to determine who the "home" team is.

Got out of it with one good pitch...I hope it ends here at the bottom of the 15th. Exciting game though.

I love how "This time it counts" is going to blow up in Selig's face! Just another piece to add to his "legacy" HAHAH

I think 16 is the max this game is gonna go.

It was always a horrible, embarrassingly dumb idea. Now you're seeing one of the very many reasons why.

I wonder if these errors for Uggla will have a lasting effect. He hasn't fielded a ball cleanly in a while. Not likely to happen but could be interesting to see if he goes Chuck Knobloch the rest of the year.

Anyone else have a bad feeling that the AL is going to pull this out this half-inning with all the talk of "what happens in the 16th or 17th with Kazmir" chatter?

The idea isn't that bad - it's increased the interest in these games and the players are clearly all playing much harder than they used to.

How hard is it to announce a contingency plan though? After 15 innings, it's a tie, and home field goes to the league that wins the most games in interleague play, or whatever.

And as it stands, this game isn't a disaster...this is the best All-Star game ever. Maybe in any sport.

Some very good defensive plays tonight.

Is this the part where the inning-ending double play ball gets hit at Uggla? :)

How about we just give home field to the team with the best record.

Slow pitch softball!!

Definitely. I suspect the fix might be in here - perhaps not officially, but Lidge is going to bail MLB out.

Agreed. The only reasonable resolution IMO if there isn't a contingency plan already in place is that there must be a winner to this game and if one team is unable to field a pitcher then that team forfeits. That's not ideal, but if there was no pre-determined plan in place then there simply must be a winner declared.



For sure, I almost didn't watch the game, I'm really glad I did.

I think using an exhibition game to decide something important is far more objectionable than players not playing the All-Star game 100%. It'd be nice if guys cared a little more, but it was a huge overreaction. Frankly, it ain't the end of the world if you have to declare a tie in the ASG. Would seem preferable to potentially murdering some poor guy's arm.

Lidge is getting an extra bonus check from the MLB to go with his normal All-Star team selection bonus.

91 wins is worth more in the AL than 94 in the NL. So it doesn't really matter. And it just alternated by year prior to this All-Star thing. I don't remember people speaking out about it then.

SAFE! It's finally over!

Damn! Selig you are a lucky bastard to get out of this one.

Michael Young! Wow, what an exciting game!

Quoting myself from IRC chatter w/ a few other baseball fans.

FUCK
FUCK FUCKF CUK


:(

Grats AL. Definitely one of the best all star games i've ever witnessed in any sport, possibly the best.

Wow! Great ending!

I'm actually going to disagree, I really think the game wasn't that great -- it was just really long with a healthy dose of "Ohmigod-what-is-Selig-gonna-do" mixed in. Tons of squandered opportunities combined with the worst individual performance ever seen in an ASG (Uggla). It was definitely interesting, but I wouldn't call it great baseball.

What was your favorite All-Star game? None of them really have great baseball. Interesting is the best we can get.

I'm not sure how using the All-Star game to decide homefield is more objectionable than the previous system - didn't it just rotate year to year?

JD Drew for MVP? Oh, there he has it. Fantastic turnaround. And even though Jeanne Zalasko is encouraging the NY fans to boo a Red Sox player, they just don't have the energy left.

Oh shoot, who knows? It's an exhibition. I think Bud gesturing wildly like a clueless moron in the tie game made me laugh the hardest, so I'll go with that one. This one's close though. I think we missed Bud gesturing like a clueless moron AGAIN by a half inning.

Brilliant Selig. Oh how I wish it kept going.

There really is no great way. It used to rotate because the two leagues played completely separate schedules. With interleague play, it seems to me like simply awarding homefield to the team with the best record would make the most sense. There is the potential of an NL team rolling up a huge record against inferior competition and getting homefield that way, but so be it. It sure beats an exhibition game deciding things.

Watching the press conference on ESPN, they asked Clint Hurdle if there was any communication about what would happen if the game got to the point that one team didn't have any more pitching available, and he said "we were communicated with, we were told the game would find a way to finish itself, and I'm fine with that, that's communication and we all knew that going in"

Not sure if he was serious or not but he said that Lidge maybe had another inning in him, maybe not, and David Wright was ready and willing to pitch.

doh, bishopmvp beat me to it :)

Best idea I have heard was having best interleague record taking it. I didn't hear a contingency for it being an even record, but my contingency would be to have the interleague records of the four playoff teams from each league be the deciding factor. And if that's even, well, the AL gets it.

This is where I think we really missed out. We needed to see position players pitch in this one. :)

Is it really still an exhibition game if it "counts"? I don't know the answer to that.

It'd be interesting to see some manager go in there and just keep his starting pitcher in 7 innings, and keep his starters in the whole the game (though I'm not sure if you have have a better chance to win than if you just throw out closers every inning).

It's certainly treated like one, with mass substitutions mid-game and tons of pitchers used (even in a regular nine inning game).

Seems to me if you're going to put this much weight on it, you need to (a) take away fan voting, (b) take away the "every team represented" rule, and (c) have the managers treat it like any game, using their best players as long as they reasonably can.

This, folks, is why you don't write a news story ragging on someone for screwing up unless you have a sober copy editor. :D

I disagree. Potentially being the home team for 57% rather than 43% of the series if it goes 7 games seems like such a small matter I don't mind making the AS game a little more interesting. Picking whichever league wins more interleague games makes more sense IMO, but I don't really see it as a big deal, even as a fan of one of the favorites to make the WS.I guess between him and Hurdle that confirms Bud had no plan.

Baseball Tonight blows - not only does nobody points out Navarro was actually safe at home in the 11th and beat the tag, but they give credit to Martin for blocking the plate and making a great tag? Ugh.

No matter how small a matter it may seem to be, you're still affecting your *championship series* based on the results of an exhibition. It just seems like a doofy idea to me, something more fitting for a gimmick league like the XFL or Arena ball (sorry Pumpy). Three World Series since 1987 have been decided solely by the home-road split, so it's not completely inconsequential, especially this season where road teams have been pathetic.

As a huge Mets fan David Wright is my favorite player ever and there is no way I want to see that.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/asgbox/07121955.shtml

Have the games play out like that and then MAYBE I'm ok with it counting. Start randomly pulling starting pitchers after 2 innings and being worried about running out of pitchers as early as the 10th or 11th inning, and maybe you bring enough back to the game that I won't consider it a mockery of the game to let the all star game have such consequences.

Actually, for completeness:

1. Get rid of fan voting.
2. Extend the break by a day on each side so that there are fewer pitchers unavailable
3. Let league representatives pick the teams in their entirety.
4. Everyone goes into the game with the understanding that if Halladay throws a complete game shutout then maybe no one else gets to pitch

I think given those parameters it might be ok to decide home field based on the all star game.


As much fun as this game was to watch, the decision to make an all-star game have the consequences it does is probably the worst decision I've seen one of the big 3 sports leagues in the US make in my lifetime. There was nothing at all wrong with the old alternating system, this change wasn't put in place because people had a problem with home field in the world series, it was put in place because of an unpopular ending to an all-star game. Solving a once in a lifetime problem with an exhibition game in the middle of the season in this fashion is just horrible to me. All the other suggestions I've seen in this thread tonight on how home field could be decided are better, from using interleague play results to flipping a coin. Either make it completely random and arbitrary, or base it on something that actually occurs in the regular season, this in between "lets add a consequence to an exhibition game without otherwise changing the exhibition game in any way" horseshit is terrible.

Listened to Selig on Mike and Mike yesterday. He tried to justify givng the home field advantage to the All Star winner because they have trouble reserving hotel rooms in the postseason on short notice!!!


totally agree. that last play was much closer than the other ones.

While I like a lot of what you have to say here, just to be technical, the AS game determining homefield in the WS was not just about the tie issue, but also about flagging interest in the AS game and players not giving their all. So removing that could have more effect than just on what happens with the WS homefield.

I guess what I don't get is - what's the downside? I understand that it could be offensive to purists, but what's the specific downside? Who cares how the teams are picked? How is it really worse than flipping a coin, or deciding home field based on late season games against teams that have absolutely nothing to play for.

It's an odd decision to do it this way, but there's really nothing negative about it (other than the generic purist that idea that it's just bad).

If you let interleague record decide it, all those games are played before the AS break where presumably everyone is still going full tilt. It would be nice to attempt to decide homefield on merit. Might not work out smoothly every year, but almost anything seems preferable to this idea. I guess the downside is that it just feels farcical. I don't know if I would call that a purist view (though I do cop to being a purist in general).

you stay classy Yankee fans

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allsta...ory?id=3491135



Having to grow up around fuck head Yankee fans I believe evey word of this.

FWIW, I actually agree with most of this, and I'd rather see the AS game played that way. But still,Holy overreaction Batman! The decision directly prior that called a game a tie was infinitely worse and more embarassing for the sport, and neither are the worst decisions in the last decade for baseball alone.

That's definitely true, my overriding intent was to point out that you're fucking with the world series to improve an exhibition. That seems backwards.

I actually put some thought into my comment about that being the worst decision by a major sport in my lifetime before I typed it out, intentionally leaving out hockey and making sure there was nothing obvious to me that could top it. The things the NFL does that are annoying lead to the "no fun league" stuff, but nothing that impacts competition, perhaps some incidents around the USFL or Al Davis could compete, but I think the NFL has done very well there.

The NBA again has been filled with positives since the mid-late 70s, which would be the arbitrary 'during my lifetime', while I no longer enjoy the NBA I'm not sure i could think of a decision by the league that impacts competition this Donaghy situation gets a lot worse real fast.


The decision to end the all star game in a tie a few years ago was only an embarrassment because of how Selig handled it, and to me any decision not direction involving the primary competition in the league can possibly compare. The all star game, while fun, was not at the time relevant to anything that happened before or after that one day, so you can really only screw up that decision to a certain point. The one thing that is worse in reflection to me is the "looking the other way" with regards to steroids for as long as MLB apparently did, so I'll drop it to 2nd worst for now ;)

i think its safe to say that if you did make a list of the worst decisions made by the major sports in the last 30 years, Selig would dominate the list :D

Basically I think that the way the entire thing is handled should be a huge embarrassment to baseball. All you can really say now that is different from 10 years ago is that "the players are trying harder to win." The fact that you can make a rule change to allow your all-star game to decide who gets home field advantage in your league's championship series, but not do anything else at all to change your league's all star game, just makes everyone involved look like asses. The fans don't care about home field advantage when picking the starters, that's a 100% popularity contest. The managers of both teams both clearly stated that it is of equal importance to get everyone in the game as it was to win the game, so they're only half-heartedly trying to win their league home field advantage. The rules aren't even clearly thought out, as we're discussing as early as the 9th and 10th inning whether MLB even has a contingency plan in place, and no one, anywhere, has an answer to that question, not the announcers in the game, nor sportswriters who make a living covering baseball every day, and where is the commissioner to explain the situation? Sitting in his own box looking bored by the whole thing.

Basically the entire thing comes across like MLB half-heartedly threw in a rule that adds significant consequences to the all-star game, and just hopes that things sort themselves out from there. Bad decision, bad handling of the decision when it was first made, just a big black eye on the entire league in my opinion.

As I said in a previous post, home field advantage is either arbitrarily handled, or its not. Putting rules in place to make it so home field advantage is decided on the field, but then half-assing those rules once you've put them in place, is yet another in a long line of Selig embarrassments, but since this one directly effects the championship of your sport, it gets elevated up towards the top of the list IMO.

I would like to go on record as saying that I like the all-star game determining the home-field advantage in the World Series. This is a game. If we don't want any zaniness at all, then why don't we just have robots for umpires. Hell, why don't we just have robots play the actual games. Whoever designs the best robot team wins, and then there is no controversy. I realize that the all-star game is labeled an "exhibition", and that it doesn't mean as much since interleague play started. Still, it's the only chance we get to see nobody but the best players go up against each other. Usually, the teams that are in contention for the World Series send quite a few players to these games. So you have many players that do have a reason to play hard, as opposed to before when it was just missed out family time.

I think these all-star games have been much more competitive in the past few years. Maybe I'm psychosomatic, but I think it's a positive to sprinkle in a little extra something. It makes it unique and quirky to me. Maybe nobody else finds these things endearing.

Just off the top of my head, the MLB has its unwillingness to react to the Steroid scandal, exemplified with the Bonds asterisk, the decision to put World Series games so late at night it lost young fans, THE STRIKE, its handling of the Expos fiasco, the decision to nearly sue fantasy baseball players out of existence, and an umpires union that keeps on the worst in the league. The NFL has its own strike, the moving of multiple franchises by greedy owners, particularly Irsay and the Colts and its refusal to come down hard on teams (SF, Den) that violated the salary cap to win Super Bowls, and I think we can also throw the handling of the Patriots incident last year up there although maybe we blame the media. The NBA's mostly deal with referees, but there are numerous manifestations. First allowing the league to become unwatchable in the early-mid 90's, then depending on your perception having either such slanted refereeing it was blatantly obvious the NBA was helping big markets to win, or at best having such poor refereeing the public perceived the games were rigged. Then of course, the actual rigging by Donaghy (and possibly his accomplice). Throw in allowing Seattle to be moved even when the fans supported it too and a strike of its own.

I can see the argument that goodwill of fans, and thus the movement of franchises/poor TV decisions doesn't have an effect on competition, but I'd argue it's a lot worse for the long-term health than who has home-field advantage, especially when that advantage was previously arbitrarily awarded and is for at most 1 game out of 175+. Nevertheless, you still end up with many more egregious decisions, from the NBA making its games unwatchable via poor emphasis on rule-enforcement, to the NFL allowing certain teams willing to break the rules advantages to MLB allowing players willing to break rules advantages, to all 3 cancelling portions of its seasons and I don't see how you can think that poorly of this minute decision.

"And once again, the MIT Stephen Hawkings beat the Cal Tech Transformers 167-9 in a mercy rule game"

SI

I fell asleep in the 12th or 13th, so maybe someone mentioned it later on...

But would it have killed Buck or McCarver to say, "If Kazmir is basically unavailable, why wasn't he recognized as an All Star and then replaced with someone who is?"

I seem to remember "availability" being an issue last year with even more guys not being able to pitch...give them their nod so they can collect their bonus, but give these teams a full complete roster.

And I agree with (I believe) the majority...the game loses its sense of "this is so important" when the best players are removed en masse by the 4th inning and the pitching situation works the complete opposite of every other real game.

I think that's what it comes down to, how seriously someone takes a sporting event.

Any way that you decide home field advantage is really arbitrary.

1. Alternating years
2. Interleague Play results (Arbitary because you have Pirates v. Mariners, etc, counting towards something that neither team gives a shit about)
3. Record (While there's some schedule overlap, its very limited, and again you're putting weight on meanigless games)
4. All Star Game Results
5. Coin Toss

One of those is clearly the most fun, because it puts the determination in a single, televised event. It's the most fun, nobody can come up with a real negative, and its no more arbitrary than any other way.

I also don't see that its a negative that the manager tries to empty the rosters. There's practical reasons for that, and it really doesn't impact the already-arbitrary nature of a single baseball game. A team dosn't have a better or worse chance to win a single game because you put a new All-Star shortstop in in the 4th inning. Yes, a manager in the regular season doesn't manage like that but he also doesn't have a bench full of All-Stars and a bullpen full of closers. Similarly, a team doesn't have a better or worse chance to win a game because the fans voted in Ichiro instead of whatever streaky outfielder had a better first few months to the season.

Nobody's trying to say this is a merit-based thing - that the AL had the better team last night, so they should have homefield advantage. The selecting of players is somewhat arbitrary, the managing styles are somewhat arbitary, the result of the game is completely random - it's a gimmick that really doesn't effect anything in any way except adding interest to a game (which it has).

There's no reason they can't say 15 innings is the max or whatever, that would help managers manage their roster accordingly.

His apparent counterpart? MVP JD Drew

Interesting - I guess that's all he could do, throw his own guy out there rather than chose someone else's (though I think the idea that someone could be injured in that situation is highly overated).

I think Drew has been mentioned in this role even with the red sox if the situation arose for them.

Man, an inning (and that's really all it'd end up being, IMO) of Wright vs. Drew would be AWESOME!

gotta give you credit here, you're right, and Strikes weren't on my radar when I was thinking it through. I don't agree with many of the other things you listed but you're absolutely right about some of the big ones at the top. :D