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-   -   The Trump Presidency – 2016 (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=92014)

AlexB 08-05-2018 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3213616)
All three are complete nutjobs with IQs below freezing and being quite literally worse than useless since they haven't been put away for their batshittiness?

I mean, that's pretty much plenty.


Wow.

Support Trump all you like, hate a sportsman all you want, but you’re more intelligent than this. Opening up a school for at-risk students immediately means he’s not useless, and has a depth and altruism that most sportsmen don’t.

If Trump is able to make people like Jon, who I almost always strongly disagree with but had always credited as being very intelligent, blindly repeat everything he says, the situation is worse than I thought

Groundhog 08-05-2018 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB (Post 3213625)
Wow.

Support Trump all you like, hate a sportsman all you want, but you’re more intelligent than this. Opening up a school for at-risk students immediately means he’s not useless, and has a depth and altruism that most sportsmen don’t.

If Trump is able to make people like Jon, who I almost always strongly disagree with but had always credited as being very intelligent, blindly repeat everything he says, the situation is worse than I thought


:+1:

RainMaker 08-05-2018 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB (Post 3213625)
but you’re more intelligent than this.


Nah

JPhillips 08-05-2018 08:04 AM

Trumps confesses to collusion.



panerd 08-05-2018 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 3213570)
Maxine Waters is low IQ
Don Lemon is the dumbest man on TV
It's not easy to make LeBron look smart in comparison

I wonder what it is that could possibly have Trump insulting the intelligence of those three.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...r-insults.html

This is from 2 years ago so I'm sure the number has grown exponentially. The guy is an asshole no doubt but not everything is about race.

...and Maxine Waters is an idiot.

panerd 08-05-2018 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3213515)
This is where panerd says that we already had that from 2008-16.


Nah, he started around his second term. His first term was actually trying to accomplish things. (Not my cup of tea but most big government on both sides isn't) His 2nd term was blaming Republicans for why he didn't do anything.

And you know what? Obama's 2nd term and Trump's first term with true opposition (The first a Congress that wouldn't do anything, the second a media that actually decided to start covering the mess in Washington DC) could be some of the best from panerd's perspective. I mean outside of the 10K posts in this thread about Trump going down (like my parents always thought Clinton was going down for Whitewater) his presidency really hasn't effected me at all. Got a decent tax break, great economy, not a big fan of how he makes the United States look to the world but already saw when George W. Bush had single digit ratings in some countries it quickly changes once we elect somebody closer to a socialist so no surprise there, and I may be one of the few that doesn't mind our leader being nice to another nuclear superpower.

So maybe I like populist ideologues? If only because they are all talk but don't "accomplish" anything.

RainMaker 08-05-2018 08:52 AM

He instilled a bunch of tariffs that have now caused him to hand out billions in welfare to the industry he hurt.

A President who uses government to mess with the free market and then tax dollars to cover it up will win the heart of a libertarian every time I guess.

panerd 08-05-2018 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3213638)
He instilled a bunch of tariffs that have now caused him to hand out billions in welfare to the industry he hurt.

A President who uses government to mess with the free market and then tax dollars to cover it up will win the heart of a libertarian every time I guess.


Yeah he's the first to mess with free market. Not really a fan of any of them but like I said in my post above his presidency, Clinton's 2nd term, and Obama's 2nd term rank fairly high in my lifetime for least damage done by the federal government. Guess what they had huge oppositions to all of their ideas. It's like asking JPhillips who his favorite Reds starter is right now. He will have to pick somebody... Castillo, Harvey? Doesn't mean they all don't suck.

EDIT: I mean the dream would be mass opposition elected this fall or GOP winning both houses in 2020 with a Democrat president. A libertarian president? Nah we wouldn't want somebody like Gary Johnson in the oval office with a high quality choice like Donald Trump!

RainMaker 08-05-2018 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3213639)
Yeah he's the first to mess with free market. Not really a fan of any of them but like I said in my post above his presidency, Clinton's 2nd term, and Obama's 2nd term rank fairly high in my lifetime for least damage done by the federal government. Guess what they had huge oppositions to all of their ideas. It's like asking JPhillips who his favorite Reds starter is right now. He will have to pick somebody... Castillo, Harvey? Doesn't mean they all don't suck.

EDIT: I mean the dream would be mass opposition elected this fall or GOP winning both houses in 2020 with a Democrat president. A libertarian president? Nah we wouldn't want somebody like Gary Johnson in the oval office with a high quality choice like Donald Trump!


No, it's like asking which Mets starter you like best and saying none because they all let up runs.

Tariffs and trade wars are a really far-left economic stance. Like farther to the left of even Bernie Sanders. And that whole free trade thing is one of the most important tenets of libertarianism.

Maybe the problem with libertarians in this country is they actually don't seem to care much about libertarian principles (Rand Paul for example).

panerd 08-05-2018 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3213642)
No, it's like asking which Mets starter you like best and saying none because they all let up runs.

Tariffs and trade wars are a really far-left economic stance. Like farther to the left of even Bernie Sanders. And that whole free trade thing is one of the most important tenets of libertarianism.

Maybe the problem with libertarians in this country is they actually don't seem to care much about libertarian principles (Rand Paul for example).


A cordial relationship with Russia would be pretty high on their list as well but it seems.like half the county welcomes WWIII if it means getting Trump out of office. I love how me saying Obama's 2nd term and Trumps presidency have the advantage of having opposition has turned into me.being opposed to free trade.

albionmoonlight 08-05-2018 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3213632)
Trumps confesses to collusion.




It didn't happen.

It probably didn't happen.

If it did happen, Trump didn't know about it.

If it did happen, Trump probably didn't know about it.

It happened.

It happened, and Trump didn't know about it, but is it technically a crime?

It happened, and Trump didn't know about it, and it is certainly not a crime.

It happened, and Trump didn't know about it, and it is certainly not a crime, and it is done all the time and good politics.

We're, what, maybe 6 months away from Republicans in Congress bringing impeachment charges against Hillary Clinton for the High Crime of not colluding with Russia?

albionmoonlight 08-05-2018 09:57 AM

And, yes, Hillary Clinton technically does not hold office, but do you really see the Freedom Caucus letting a technicality like that stand in their way?

RainMaker 08-05-2018 10:05 AM

A cordial relationship with a country that is actively hostile to you is difficult to pull off.

And I know libertarians have been friendly with Russia of late despite their supposed opposing views on governance. Russian state media gives them air time and won't ask them basic foreign policy questions like what is happening in Aleppo.

Atocep 08-05-2018 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3213644)
A cordial relationship with Russia would be pretty high on their list as well but it seems.like half the county welcomes WWIII if it means getting Trump out of office. I love how me saying Obama's 2nd term and Trumps presidency have the advantage of having opposition has turned into me.being opposed to free trade.


A cordial relationship with Russia is dangerous as long as Putin is in power. He desperately wants to see the destabilization and possible destruction of our country.

Wanting to see Russia punished and called out for the bullshit they're pulling does not equate to wanting to see WWIII. Russia wants war with another global power less than we do, however, they have no problem taking advantage of idiots, destabilizing our government, and spreading distrust in our electoral system. Their government is walking all over us right now, but I guess our choices are millions die or we roll over.

JPhillips 08-05-2018 10:24 AM

So according to Trump and his lawyers,

The Trump campaign met with Russians offering dirt on their opponent.

Trump dictated a statement lying about the purpose of the meeting.

Trump fired the FBI Director for investigating Trump's relationship to Russia.


I know it won't be, but this should be enough to end his presidency.

NobodyHere 08-05-2018 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril (Post 3213615)
I assume this is sarcasm?!


I believe Trump is racist, if nothing else because he said that the "Mexican" judge born in Indiana shouldn't be able to judge his Trump U case.

I'm just slightly offended at the logic in mckerney's post. He cherry-picked three people who are black that Trump has called low IQ and assumes Trump is racist because of that. The thing is Trump has called many white people low IQ/dumb as well. It just seems to be a standard insult for him.

So I believe Trump is racist but I disagree on how the previous post implies that conclusion. I think he did use the insults because they opposed him in some way.

Galaril 08-05-2018 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3213668)
I believe Trump is racist, if nothing else because he said that the "Mexican" judge born in Indiana shouldn't be able to judge his Trump U case.

I'm just slightly offended at the logic in mckerney's post. He cherry-picked three people who are black that Trump has called low IQ and assumes Trump is racist because of that. The thing is Trump has called many white people low IQ/dumb as well. It just seems to be a standard insult for him.

So I believe Trump is racist but I disagree on how the previous post implies that conclusion. I think he did use the insults because they opposed him in some way.


Ah got it . Thanks for the response and clarification.

Flasch186 08-05-2018 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3213632)
Trumps confesses to collusion.




poof, the end.

Ben E Lou 08-05-2018 05:08 PM

I put the LeBron stuff in the “Trump is too much of a thin-skinned wimp to handle any criticism whatsoever, yet he watches CNN to see if they’re criticizing him and then lashes out when they do” bucket, not the “racist” bucket. I saw people talking about how it plays to his base and all that. Sure it does, but that’s not why this happened. He’s not playing 6D chess or even 2D chess. This was just a toddler getting his widdle feewings hurt by the mean people on CNN, and then throwing a temper tantrum.

Atocep 08-05-2018 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3213655)
So according to Trump and his lawyers,

The Trump campaign met with Russians offering dirt on their opponent.

Trump dictated a statement lying about the purpose of the meeting.

Trump fired the FBI Director for investigating Trump's relationship to Russia.


I know it won't be, but this should be enough to end his presidency.


We're also supposed to believe that he had no knowledge of a "totally legal" meeting that took place at Trump Tower involving his son, son-in-law, and campaign manager while he was in Trump Tower.

RainMaker 08-05-2018 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3213690)
I put the LeBron stuff in the “Trump is too much of a thin-skinned wimp to handle any criticism whatsoever, yet he watches CNN to see if they’re criticizing him and then lashes out when they do” bucket, not the “racist” bucket. I saw people talking about how it plays to his base and all that. Sure it does, but that’s not why this happened. He’s not playing 6D chess or even 2D chess. This was just a toddler getting his widdle feewings hurt by the mean people on CNN, and then throwing a temper tantrum.


I don't know. Lebron didn't really go hard after him in that CNN interview.

The targeting of successful black people has been a racist dog whistle for some time. The implication that they aren't "real Americans" plays heavily in this. And his base loves having a new dark-skinned enemy (women enemites work too) to lay their anger and jealousy at.

Don't get me wrong, the fact that Lebron is a legitimate self-made billionaire and not just someone who plays it on TV has to drive him nuts. The fact that he is adored for giving back to his community in such grand ways while he just ran a scam school does too. Lebron is what he wishes he was in a way.

So I agree that this is a tantrum. But I also think at a time where he's essentially admitted to committing light treason, this aims to be a distraction.

Thomkal 08-05-2018 06:38 PM

So you might think the President would console those who lost everything in the CA wildfires and let them know the govt is there for them right? Instead we get...


Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago




California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amount of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire spreading!

12,979 replies 6,967 retweets 26,069 likes

Ben E Lou 08-05-2018 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3213695)
I don't know. Lebron didn't really go hard after him in that CNN interview.

The targeting of successful black people has been a racist dog whistle for some time. The implication that they aren't "real Americans" plays heavily in this. And his base loves having a new dark-skinned enemy (women enemites work too) to lay their anger and jealousy at.

Don't get me wrong, the fact that Lebron is a legitimate self-made billionaire and not just someone who plays it on TV has to drive him nuts. The fact that he is adored for giving back to his community in such grand ways while he just ran a scam school does too. Lebron is what he wishes he was in a way.

So I agree that this is a tantrum. But I also think at a time where he's essentially admitted to committing light treason, this aims to be a distraction.

LeBron said something like "I wouldn't sit down with Trump. I would have sat down with Obama." Isn't that like the ultimate insult to Trump? Especially given his previous fandom. ;)










But seriously, of course it's likely that Trump's reaction was even stronger because it was two black guys. All I'm saying is that I'm not giving him credit for this being a "strategic" attack in any way, or even a distraction. It may end up being one of those, sure. But I strongly suspect it was just a plain ol' tantrum.

PilotMan 08-05-2018 07:11 PM

Speculate all you want. A single comment, tweet, or sentence doesn't represent anything. You have to look at the entire body of work, laid end to end, then attempt to make an informed opinion on trump.

Focusing on one thing at a time, then spouting that this is the straw that broke the camels back just moves the rest down the line of importance. Instead, it needs to be added and mentioned along with everything else, every single night. The list is long and the body of work in logical ELI5 terms will play much better over and over, than just screaming about the latest idiotic ploy.

RainMaker 08-05-2018 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3213699)
So you might think the President would console those who lost everything in the CA wildfires and let them know the govt is there for them right? Instead we get...


Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1h1 hour ago




California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amount of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire spreading!

12,979 replies 6,967 retweets 26,069 likes


For those unaware, this is based off a weird right-wing conspiracy that's been around for awhile. Basically some land owners out West built these giant lakes (with dams and everything) on their property and diverted water to them. They were told you can't do that because it messes with the water supply for everyone else.

So it turned into a conspiracy that the evil government was preventing these true patriots from building lakes to suppress fires. In reality they were building these lakes to fish and go boating. That if they had been allowed to build these lakes, the wildfires would never happen. That the government was purposely letting all the water run off into the Pacific Ocean instead (when in reality it's going into the water supply for the residents).

Radii 08-05-2018 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3213637)
his presidency really hasn't effected me at all.


Oh dear.

NobodyHere 08-05-2018 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril (Post 3213684)
Ah got it . Thanks for the response and clarification.


No prob :banana:

This is on a personal note but I'm trying to be more articulate in my responses. I've always been a shy insular person and I never thought I've communicated my responses clearly. I'm trying to work on that. Hopefully in the future you guys will be hearing more from me :popcorn:

Atocep 08-06-2018 09:38 AM

The_Donald and some other right wing places that fed into the QAnon bullshit for months have been scrambling the past couple of days to distance themselves from it.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-is-probably-a

CU Tiger 08-06-2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3213704)
For those unaware, this is based off a weird right-wing conspiracy that's been around for awhile. Basically some land owners out West built these giant lakes (with dams and everything) on their property and diverted water to them. They were told you can't do that because it messes with the water supply for everyone else.

So it turned into a conspiracy that the evil government was preventing these true patriots from building lakes to suppress fires. In reality they were building these lakes to fish and go boating. That if they had been allowed to build these lakes, the wildfires would never happen. That the government was purposely letting all the water run off into the Pacific Ocean instead (when in reality it's going into the water supply for the residents).



Interesting. Haven't followed that story line at all. Is local water availability a major problem in fighting the wildfires? I would think if so, so reservoir aquifer probably makes sense. But there are environmental impacts to be considered for sure.


I used to have a fishing buddy, who was an ecology and wildlife biology professor at Clemson before moving to DC for some advisory role with, I think, the USFS during the Obama administration. Now he had multiple PHDs in environmental science and biology related fields. He was fascinating to fish with, but he could go so far beyond my understanding so quickly I'd daze off at times.



But he was an adamant believer that we were the cause of the wildfires, specifically through fire prevention. He was as left leaning and tree hugging as you can imagine. But he would explain the fuel build up in leaf litter and how it created a powder keg ready to erupt. Ive heard the rant a couple times. Sadly I cant do it justice to repeat it. But in short he maintained that the western US forest had evolved over millenia through a repeated and regular series of semi controlled fires. From early man intentionally setting blazes to farm the land, to include less fire prevention from things like lightening strikes which were allowed to burn out. I wish I could hear his thoughts on the current situation. I just left him a voicemail and a text. He was passionate about it though calling Smokey Bear a horror and said his slogan should have been "Only you can delay Wildfires"

QuikSand 08-06-2018 10:13 AM

#NothingMatters

Butter 08-06-2018 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3213644)
A cordial relationship with Russia would be pretty high on their list as well but it seems.like half the county welcomes WWIII if it means getting Trump out of office. I love how me saying Obama's 2nd term and Trumps presidency have the advantage of having opposition has turned into me.being opposed to free trade.


Yes, because our two choices are Donald Trump or WWIII.

Dude.

cartman 08-06-2018 12:20 PM

Quote:

But he was an adamant believer that we were the cause of the wildfires, specifically through fire prevention. He was as left leaning and tree hugging as you can imagine. But he would explain the fuel build up in leaf litter and how it created a powder keg ready to erupt. Ive heard the rant a couple times. Sadly I cant do it justice to repeat it. But in short he maintained that the western US forest had evolved over millenia through a repeated and regular series of semi controlled fires. From early man intentionally setting blazes to farm the land, to include less fire prevention from things like lightening strikes which were allowed to burn out. I wish I could hear his thoughts on the current situation. I just left him a voicemail and a text. He was passionate about it though calling Smokey Bear a horror and said his slogan should have been "Only you can delay Wildfires"

This is absolutely true. I've seen the before and after first hand. Back in the early 90s I worked at Philmont Scout Ranch in northern New Mexico. Before the land was donated to the Boy Scouts, the land had been heavily timber harvested, with no regard at that time for environmental practices like rotating harvest zones or monitored replanting. They just took every tree out, and moved on.

So what happened were that areas where there were supposed to be 150-200 trees per acre, there ended up being 6000+ trees per acre. Where the trees were supposed to be 100+ feet tall, they were 8-10 feet tall.

We worked a timber stand improvement project, where we culled out many of the trees, and cleared off the forest floor of most of the fallen pine needles and deadfall. Over the course of 5 summers around 30 acres were cleared.

In 2004, a really bad fire swept through, burning around 25,000 acres. The sections where nothing had been done since the trees had been clear cut, the damage was enormous. The fire stayed burning longer, and sterilized the soil, due to having all of the 6000+ trees per acre, plus the accumulated years of pine needles and branches that had fallen. In the areas where we did timber stand improvement, the fire burned through quicker, due to much less fuel.

Now nearly 15 years later, the untreated areas are still in really bad shape. Nothing much is growing back except for scrub stuff. Pine cones need fire to release their seeds, but the fire was so hot it destroyed the pine cones. In the timber stand improvement areas, trees are growing back.

So occasional fires are absolutely necessary to clear out accumulated undergrowth and allow pine cones to reseed. When nothing is done and things are allowed to build up until a catastrophe happens, it is really, really bad.

Thomkal 08-06-2018 01:24 PM

Alex Jones videos, etc get removed from several social media sites:


Apple, Facebook, YouTube and Spotify remove content by Infowars' Alex Jones

Thomkal 08-06-2018 01:47 PM

It was up in the air whether Rick Gates was going to testify in Manafort's trial. Not any longer-he's up next

Thomkal 08-06-2018 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3213775)
It was up in the air whether Rick Gates was going to testify in Manafort's trial. Not any longer-he's up next



And apparently I'm a liar. Gates not testifying now, even though every indication he was going to be next.

Ben E Lou 08-06-2018 03:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3213793)
And apparently I'm a liar.

.

RainMaker 08-06-2018 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger (Post 3213739)
Interesting. Haven't followed that story line at all. Is local water availability a major problem in fighting the wildfires? I would think if so, so reservoir aquifer probably makes sense. But there are environmental impacts to be considered for sure.


I don't know if there is an issue in water availability for fighting the fires. I think the issue was always about having enough water for people to drink and for the agricultural industry (which is a huge part of California) to stay sufficient.

Gary Harrington is one of the names I remember from it. But there have been others in California and Nevada that have butted heads with the government. Whenever fires like this start up the conspiracy theories start flowing about how this would have prevented it and we let all this water just flow into the Pacific (which is untrue).

As for fighting the fires, I know there has been a lot of flack given to the government about their methods. Some scientists believe they should be doing things differently. Doesn't really relate to this but you can find that stuff online.

RainMaker 08-06-2018 03:34 PM

It's also unfortunate that he didn't thank the firefighters. When I was in college I spent a Summer out West as part of a team that fought wildfires. The pay was crazy good for a college student ($35/hour plus tons of OT back in 2000). It was the most grueling work you can imagine and it took my body months after to fully recover. And I wasn't even one of the guys on the front lines doing the most dangerous work.

I can't imagine what it's like fighting fires like this. A change in wind can mean death. And just putting your bodies through that for months takes an enormous toll on you physically and mentally.

Thomkal 08-06-2018 03:36 PM

:)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3213793)
And apparently I'm a liar. Gates not testifying now, even though every indication he was going to be next.



I can't stop lying just like Donald Trump. Gates on the stand now...or is he?

ISiddiqui 08-06-2018 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3213793)
And apparently I'm a liar. Gates not testifying now, even though every indication he was going to be next.


Should have stuck to your guns.

Gates is testifying and said he committed crimes with Manafort.

Thomkal 08-06-2018 03:55 PM

Gates first asked if he had committed crimes with Manafort and involved in any criminal activity with him. Says yes to both questions. Says they had 15 foreign accounts they did not report to the federal govt and it was at Manafort's order.

Thomkal 08-06-2018 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3213802)
Should have stuck to your guns.

Gates is testifying and said he committed crimes with Manafort.



Lying and guns? Little did I know I worked for the NRA :)

jeff061 08-06-2018 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3213738)
The_Donald and some other right wing places that fed into the QAnon bullshit for months have been scrambling the past couple of days to distance themselves from it.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-is-probably-a


Ha. QAnon is the same as Anonymous, without the false sense of importance. Bored kids saying shit to amuse themselves, laughing in disbelief when idiots in the masses pick up on it and then seeing how far they can take it.

At least this one is far sillier than anonymous, which people to this day still think is a real group. Not just a message board of random teens with single click DDoS tools my 9 month old could literally operate.

Thomkal 08-06-2018 04:10 PM

Gates admits he embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars from Manafort

cuervo72 08-06-2018 04:23 PM

Well sure - your boss has illegal/unreported accounts, what's he going to do if you steal from him, snitch? ;)

Ben E Lou 08-06-2018 04:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72 (Post 3213810)
Well sure - your boss has illegal/unreported accounts, what's he going to do if you steal from him, snitch? ;)

Yeah, that's all well and good as long as your boss isn't this guy.

RainMaker 08-06-2018 05:32 PM

Not sure if we have an international news thread but did anyone see the Saudis put up a tweet basically threatening a 9/11 on Canada?

cuervo72 08-06-2018 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3213817)
Yeah, that's all well and good as long as your boss isn't this guy.


It's been so long I had to check to confirm this was from what I thought it was (and even then, all I had was "right, the one where the missile blew up the cartel house").

Ben E Lou 08-06-2018 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72 (Post 3213827)
It's been so long I had to check to confirm this was from what I thought it was (and even then, all I had was "right, the one where the missile blew up the cartel house").

I watched it again fairly recently on either Netflix or Prime. Good flick!

Groundhog 08-06-2018 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3213823)
Not sure if we have an international news thread but did anyone see the Saudis put up a tweet basically threatening a 9/11 on Canada?


It was taken down, but here's a screenshot:


PilotMan 08-06-2018 07:34 PM

Well if we've learned anything from trump it's that this is the fastest way to safer world.

Groundhog 08-07-2018 06:30 AM

Great news everybody, Asbestos is back! I thought it was a bit strange how often I saw the Mesothelioma lawsuit commercials when I was in the US a few years back, but I guess they're set for a big comeback roughly 40 years from now:

Quote:

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-as...manufacturing/
EPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing

One of the most dangerous construction-related carcinogens is now legally allowed back into U.S. manufacturing under a new rule by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). On June 1, the EPA authorized a “SNUR” (Significant New Use Rule) which allows new products containing asbestos to be created on a case-by-case basis.

According to environmental advocates, this new rule gives chemical companies the upper hand in creating new uses for such harmful products in the United States. In May, the EPA released a report detailing its new framework for evaluating the risk of its top prioritized substances. The report states that the agency will no longer consider the effect or presence of substances in the air, ground, or water in its risk assessments.

This news comes after the EPA reviewed its first batch of 10 chemicals under the 2016 amendment to the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA), which required the agency to continually reevaluate hundreds of potentially toxic chemicals to see whether they should face new restrictions or be removed from the market. The SNUR greenlights companies to use toxic chemicals like asbestos without thinking about how it will endanger people who are indirectly in contact with it.

Asbestos, once seen as a magical mineral, was widely used in building insulation up until it was banned in most countries in the 1970s. The U.S. is one of the only developed nations in the world that has placed significant restrictions on the substance without banning it completely. New data revealed that asbestos-related deaths now total nearly 40,000 annually, with lung cancer and mesothelioma being the most common illnesses in association with the toxin. That number could rise if new asbestos-containing products make their way into brand new buildings.

...snipped...


The bolded part is particularly interesting - the EPA is not considering the effects on the...well... environment with its risk assessments going forward.

Thomkal 08-07-2018 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3206032)
I hope that all those who get sick from it bypass the EPA and directly sue Trump.



What I said about this when we first talked about what he was doing with asbestos still holds true. There are going to be so many lawsuits about this I think.

Atocep 08-07-2018 09:13 AM

Trump has said asbestos is a mob conspiracy.

BYU 14 08-07-2018 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3213901)
What I said about this when we first talked about what he was doing with asbestos still holds true. There are going to be so many lawsuits about this I think.


No worries, as long as we keep that evil Marijuana as a schedule 1 drug.

But I agree, this is going to be a legal morass for the EPA.

JPhillips 08-07-2018 10:38 AM

Quote:

Details of the rulemaking proposal are still being finalized, but based on a recent draft seen last week and described to NBC News, immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare, children's health insurance, food stamps and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S.

Of course, this won't cover good benefits like corporate welfare, tax credits, farm subsidies and the like. This is targeted specifically at ending the American dream.

CU Tiger 08-07-2018 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3213912)
Of course, this won't cover good benefits like corporate welfare, tax credits, farm subsidies and the like. This is targeted specifically at ending the American dream.



Huh? Seems pretty easy to me. People who have already came in illegally and then forged documents to obtain benefits they are not entitled to, IE people who are already of suspect character and shown a wllinigness to break the law to benefit their selves exclusively, will be prevented from becoming legal citizens. Since we want to discourage immigration from criminals.

albionmoonlight 08-07-2018 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger (Post 3213915)
Huh? Seems pretty easy to me. People who have already came in illegally and then forged documents to obtain benefits they are not entitled to, IE people who are already of suspect character and shown a wllinigness to break the law to benefit their selves exclusively, will be prevented from becoming legal citizens. Since we want to discourage immigration from criminals.


If that's what the proposal did, you would have a point.

But, the proposal is for "immigrants living legally in the U.S."

And it applies if anyone in their household has ever used these benefits--even if they were legally entitled to them.

So, let's say that you were nave enough to actually believe the Republicans when they said things like "We are only concerned about illegal immigration." Or when they said that they want "people to do it the right way."

And you came here legally and got resident status and are working toward your green card (i.e. the right way). And your U.S. Citizen child used a benefit (CHIP, etc.) to which he was 100% entitled at the time and which, at the time, had no impact on your green card status.

They want to then say that you can't become a citizen.

That's a horrible proposal.

albionmoonlight 08-07-2018 11:37 AM

dola: This comes from reporting on the proposal, which isn't public yet.

CU Tiger 08-07-2018 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3213920)
If that's what the proposal did, you would have a point.

But, the proposal is for "immigrants living legally in the U.S."

And it applies if anyone in their household has ever used these benefits--even if they were legally entitled to them.

So, let's say that you were nave enough to actually believe the Republicans when they said things like "We are only concerned about illegal immigration." Or when they said that they want "people to do it the right way."

And you came here legally and got resident status and are working toward your green card (i.e. the right way). And your U.S. Citizen child used a benefit (CHIP, etc.) to which he was 100% entitled at the time and which, at the time, had no impact on your green card status.

They want to then say that you can't become a citizen.

That's a horrible proposal.



If thats the finalized proposal, that people who used benefits tey were legally entitled to are punished, then yes. That's wrong.



That's not how I read it initially.


Picking nits here but it also says hindered not prevented.

albionmoonlight 08-07-2018 11:54 AM

I imagine part of what the admin is doing here is floating various proposals out there through the media, gauging the reaction, and then planning to issue an actual proposal based on pubic response to the reports. So we really won't know what it's going to say until they go public.

SackAttack 08-07-2018 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3213920)
If that's what the proposal did, you would have a point.

But, the proposal is for "immigrants living legally in the U.S."

And it applies if anyone in their household has ever used these benefits--even if they were legally entitled to them.


And, theoretically, even if the person legally entitled to the benefits wasn't a member of the household. Depends on how broadly it's written and interpreted, but you're a legal immigrant? Got a green card?

Meet a girl in college, fall in love, get married...find out that she used SCHIP as a child, 20 years before she even met you?

That counts against you. It might not prevent you gaining citizenship...but it might, too.

Thomkal 08-07-2018 01:32 PM

So a asbestos company has come out with an image of Donald Trump on the packaging and "Approved by the 45th President of the United States. I bet you'll never guess where the company is based:


Russian company sells asbestos with President Trump’s face on the packaging - The Washington Post

Thomkal 08-07-2018 02:10 PM

One of the accountants who testified with immunity in Manafort's trial has already been fired:


Manafort accountant who admitted role in false tax returns leaves Virginia firm - POLITICO

BYU 14 08-07-2018 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3213931)
So a asbestos company has come out with an image of Donald Trump on the packaging and "Approved by the 45th President of the United States. I bet you'll never guess where the company is based:


Russian company sells asbestos with President Trump’s face on the packaging - The Washington Post


You just can't make this shit up. Convenient timing with the increased regulation in Brazil as well. And, the company posted on FB a month ago!

RainMaker 08-07-2018 03:31 PM

Asbestos is huge in Russia. They even have a town named for it. With all the advanced countries banning it, they've relied a lot on exporting to developing countries. Probably figured this was a good chance to get back into the US market.

On the other hand, I can't see this taking off again in the United States. It'll be impossible to insure and there's an army of lawyers ready to pounce on any company who even mutters the word.

whomario 08-07-2018 03:37 PM

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "California wildfires are being magnified & made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren’t allowing massive amounts of readily available water to be properly utilized. It is being diverted into the Pacific Ocean. Must also tree clear to stop fire from spreading!"

Still can't be sure if he is a moron or evil. Or what is the 'worse' option ...

As someone fascinated by semiotics, the use of "diverting" here is a stellar example of his ideology at work.

PilotMan 08-07-2018 03:53 PM

trump is totally willing to point to californians and say 'hey, if you supported me, we'd send you some help, but instead, you're all Jerry Brown supporters to we're just gonna watch it burn.'



At least, that is the way it sounds when he talks about it. Like it's some kind of heavenly punishment for going against him.

cuervo72 08-07-2018 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3213931)
So a asbestos company has come out with an image of Donald Trump on the packaging and "Approved by the 45th President of the United States. I bet you'll never guess where the company is based:


Russian company sells asbestos with President Trump’s face on the packaging - The Washington Post


Redistributing elsewhere, nice find as usual. :)

Edward64 08-07-2018 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog (Post 3213840)
It was taken down, but here's a screenshot:


Pretty sad. Thanks for reminding the US where most of the hijackers came from.

I do think the new Prince is moving things along and it seems to be an overreaction to criticism from Canada (unless I'm missing something).

Edward64 08-07-2018 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3213920)
That's a horrible proposal.


Yup, I would agree. Its nonsensical to me, the proposal is to apply this to legal immigration, just weird.

RainMaker 08-07-2018 06:32 PM

And next time he cries about kneeling being disrespectful towards the troops, remember that asbestos killed a ton of military personnel since it was used heavily in their equipment.

whomario 08-07-2018 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3213823)
Not sure if we have an international news thread but did anyone see the Saudis put up a tweet basically threatening a 9/11 on Canada?


Just to play devils advocate: "The Saudis" here is a decently popular non-profit project. It's like equating a right wing group in support of Trump posting a picture vilifying mexicans or african shithole countries with the United States official policy/ideology. Just because in the US it's the actual head of state doing it doesn't mean in other countries any groups posts are secretely distributing stuff coming straight from the top ;)

That being said, Saudi Arabia are absolutely trying to draw some sort of red line in the sand. Also basically told 16.000 students currently in Canada to come home (or else). They kinda got into it with Germany end of last year over similar issues (foreigh secretary commenting on human rights issues) but quickly got over it. Probably as soon as the next shipment of weapons came in with the blessing of out government, because fuck integrity ...

Might just be the hardliners in the hierarchy asserting themselves or getting leeway in exchange for not blowing a casket over the more progressive actions taken recently. Even in most non-democratic societies you have to appease a "base" (so to speak) nowadays and take public oppinion into accounts. Especially if you have a comparatively big upper class like in Saudi Arabia.

Drake 08-08-2018 05:52 AM

Agree with whomario here. This is like taking a meme from a nutter group like Uncle Sam's Misguided Children and attributing it to Americans generally or the government in particular.

JPhillips 08-08-2018 09:06 AM



Thomkal 08-08-2018 09:23 AM

Got his son and father of his fiancee too:


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...harges-n898661

Vince, Pt. II 08-08-2018 09:37 AM

What exactly is the desired outcome from the tariff trade war with China? Serious question, no snark here. In an ideal world, what does this accomplish?

My completely amateur view is that theoretically you are looking to promote local business by making it effectively cheaper for local manufacturers to provide goods to the market as compared to foreign manufacturers. That's...pretty much the only benefit, right?

JPhillips 08-08-2018 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II (Post 3214038)
What exactly is the desired outcome from the tariff trade war with China? Serious question, no snark here. In an ideal world, what does this accomplish?

My completely amateur view is that theoretically you are looking to promote local business by making it effectively cheaper for local manufacturers to provide goods to the market as compared to foreign manufacturers. That's...pretty much the only benefit, right?


Wipe out the deficit and make America rich.

Haven't you been listening?

Thomkal 08-08-2018 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3214036)
Got his son and father of his fiancee too:


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...harges-n898661



Apparently Collins was at the 2017 Congressional Picnic when he got the tip, and went into the White House somewhere to call his son about it

PilotMan 08-08-2018 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II (Post 3214038)
What exactly is the desired outcome from the tariff trade war with China? Serious question, no snark here. In an ideal world, what does this accomplish?

My completely amateur view is that theoretically you are looking to promote local business by making it effectively cheaper for local manufacturers to provide goods to the market as compared to foreign manufacturers. That's...pretty much the only benefit, right?


It's a long, long game, but in the end, it should raise prices enough so that American companies and consumers get accustomed to the prices that allow companies bases in the United States to provide for Americans. So if you have to go to Walmart and pay more for because we want companies to be able to pay for better healthcare for their employees, who are also Americans, and those companies can now compete with foreign companies who don't and pay $2 a day, then so be it.

The thing is, that businessmen and businesses will never allow this to really take hold. It'll never amount to anything that far down the road. Instead, it'll be crushed. When the first sign of a slowdown in the economy comes it'll be dumped.

The idea is to protect American interests. I'm lucky to work in an industry that is so vital to US commerce. Our lobbying arm is quite strong and very proactive about protecting the industry. At least it should be around for the remaining 22 years of my career.

jeff061 08-08-2018 12:19 PM

And this is a game of chicken America simply can't win against China. If tariffs cause to much strain in the short term in America, politicians get pressured to resolve or get voted out.

In China if you voice your frustrations on tariffs, you may get black bagged. Not to mention the cult of personality developing around Xi.

PilotMan 08-08-2018 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061 (Post 3214052)
And this is a game of chicken America simply can't win against China. If tariffs cause to much strain in the short term in America, politicians get pressured to resolve or get voted out.

In China if you voice your frustrations on tariffs, you may get black bagged. Not to mention the cult of personality developing around Xi.



Yep, it's part of why our system isn't really able to compete with that, and why we need large international trade pacts that increase the US trade strength.

It's why we have forensic economists who look at raw materials being used in China and Russia and everywhere else, because their official numbers are always bullshit. It's how we know what's really going on, and how many resources they are actually using.

trump would love to have that kind of control over the US. It's actually what he wants and craves and sadly there are about 38% of Americans willing to sign him up for a long term, check free deal.

stevew 08-08-2018 12:28 PM

Gif of Collins chanting Lock Her Up?

RainMaker 08-08-2018 01:34 PM

Alex Jones' Lawyer Seeks To Make Sandy Hook Parents' Home Addresses Public | HuffPost

Thomkal 08-08-2018 01:58 PM

I really don't understand how Jones has been allowed to keep this conspiracy alive all these years. He should be sued for every last dollar he has and thrown in jail if he won't stop with it.

Edward64 08-08-2018 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3214079)
I really don't understand how Jones has been allowed to keep this conspiracy alive all these years. He should be sued for every last dollar he has and thrown in jail if he won't stop with it.


Yup, I agree with this.

Something is in the works but I don't get why this wasn't done alot earlier.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/al...uit/index.html
Quote:

A defamation lawsuit has been filed against broadcaster Alex Jones, along with some of his associates, for saying the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, was fake.

On Wednesday, families of four students and two educators who died, along with one FBI agent who responded to the shooting, filed the suit in a Connecticut court.

"Jones is the chief amplifier for a group that has worked in concert to create and propagate loathsome, false narratives about the Sandy Hook shooting and its victims, and promote their harassment and abuse," the lawsuit states. There are also six companies named in the suit, including various entities related to Jones' InfoWars website.

RainMaker 08-08-2018 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3214104)
Yup, I agree with this.

Something is in the works but I don't get why this wasn't done alot earlier.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/al...uit/index.html


My guess is his audience was smaller in the past and the defamation didn't have much affect on their lives. Once the President gave him credibility and his audience skyrocketed, there's way more followers capable of doing damage.

Edward64 08-08-2018 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II (Post 3214038)
What exactly is the desired outcome from the tariff trade war with China? Serious question, no snark here. In an ideal world, what does this accomplish?

My completely amateur view is that theoretically you are looking to promote local business by making it effectively cheaper for local manufacturers to provide goods to the market as compared to foreign manufacturers. That's...pretty much the only benefit, right?


Trump's stated main goal is to reduce the deficit. I think it also includes having China treat US companies better (e.g. intellectual property, partnering with Chinese companies) and to bring back some/increase manufacturing in the US.

I like all 3 goals in concept. I would feel a lot better if I thought Trump had a real strategy to achieve all 3 vs shooting from the hip.

To your second paragraph, reducing the deficit can be done with increasing exports to China, decreasing imports from China, or a combination. Decreasing imports wouldn't mean US local businesses pick up the slack though, it could also be other countries providing the goods (e.g. Vietnam).

Edward64 08-08-2018 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061 (Post 3214052)
And this is a game of chicken America simply can't win against China. If tariffs cause to much strain in the short term in America, politicians get pressured to resolve or get voted out.


Before the new-normal, I would agree with you.

However, if GOP retains the House & Senate (primarily because of Trump's endorsements, strength of US economy), I can easily believe most GOP politicians will stay the course with Trump.

RainMaker 08-08-2018 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3214114)
Trump's stated main goal is to reduce the deficit. I think it also includes having China treat US companies better (e.g. intellectual property, partnering with Chinese companies) and to bring back some/increase manufacturing in the US.


You just described TPP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3214114)
To your second paragraph, reducing the deficit can be done with increasing exports to China, decreasing imports from China, or a combination. Decreasing imports wouldn't mean US local businesses pick up the slack though, it could also be other countries providing the goods (e.g. Vietnam).


The trade deficit is a bit overrated and the economy is more complex than it. We had a huge trade surplus during the great depression for instance. Didn't exactly help things there. It's still something the country should be looking at.

Tariffs have never worked in helping this area. As evidence by the fact our trade deficit has increased under Trump. It likely will continue to suffer as he cuts student visas.

Plus his massive tax cuts is adding a ton to the federal deficit which forces foreign investment. The easiest way to reduce the trade deficit is to cut the federal one.

stevew 08-08-2018 04:40 PM

Seriously I know that nobody wants to see a bunch of dead kids but I think a few more crime scene photos(heavily pixelated) would quash some of this truther shit.

stevew 08-08-2018 04:40 PM

Or maybe they'd just use it to further their hate speech, wtfk

NobodyHere 08-08-2018 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 3214119)
Seriously I know that nobody wants to see a bunch of dead kids but I think a few more crime scene photos(heavily pixelated) would quash some of this truther shit.


Pixelation would just mean to them that the government is covering something up.

And do you actually think these people would be persuaded by evidence? They have their conclusion and would think any evidence to the contrary would be falsified.

Edward64 08-08-2018 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3214118)
You just described TPP.


TPP did not include China?

I guess an argument could be made that the TPP nations, working together, will have greater leverage on China to enact substantial reforms. I don't think that was a sure thing (and neither is Trump's current approach).

Atocep 08-08-2018 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 3214120)
Or maybe they'd just use it to further their hate speech, wtfk


Yes

No amount of evidence kills off conspiracies. Trying show evidence actually seems to do more harm than good.

I think the best approach to Sandy Hook is sue the shit out of Alex Jones. It's not going to put an end to the conspiracy, but it gets us one step closer to getting him off the air.

Atocep 08-08-2018 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3214132)
TPP did not include China?



By design.

The primary reason TPP came together was to isolate China. That was the goal. TPP would have likely done a far better job of doing what Trump is trying to do without pissing off all of our allies.

jeff061 08-08-2018 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3214116)
Before the new-normal, I would agree with you.

However, if GOP retains the House & Senate (primarily because of Trump's endorsements, strength of US economy), I can easily believe most GOP politicians will stay the course with Trump.


Even the most ardent Trump supporters will turn on him if they are hit too hard in the pocket for too long and the GOP will follow. Why do you think they are already lining up payoffs to farmers?

People are still people, flaws and all, there is no "new normal".

RainMaker 08-08-2018 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061 (Post 3214150)
Even the most ardent Trump supporters will turn on him if they are hit too hard in the pocket for too long and the GOP will follow. Why do you think they are already lining up payoffs to farmers?

People are still people, flaws and all, there is no "new normal".


They've voted against their economic self-interests for decades now. Trump isn't going to change that.

And like you said, they'll just up the welfare payments to those people if they feel pressure.

Thomkal 08-08-2018 09:43 PM

So Rachel Maddow played a tape tonight on her show from some progressive group that got into a Republican, no press invited, fundraiser for Kathy McMorris Rodgers, the #4 Republican in the House last week. Her invited guest was Devin Nunes. They secretly taped what he said there and sent it to NBC. To me it did not sound anything too inflamatory, but Twitter is ablaze with tweets calling what he said was Obstruction. See what you think:


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...-would-n899031

Thomkal 08-08-2018 10:17 PM

Not to be lost in the important news of the day, it appears the VA is being run by a shadow council of three members of Mar-A-Lago:


The Shadow Rulers of the VA — ProPublica


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