Also, the second sentence that I've quoted shows that you missed Antmeister's point.

Great, now I have to move.

Can't believe I missed this follow up to your original post way back when. Great stuff.

Pity the designer & the developers didn't go there too.

Depends upon your screen resolution.

That is false.

Look at your examples: the NCAA, NFL, and XFL, along with the USFL and WFL and other leagues had different styles of play. Maximum Football is designed to allow the game player to select which kind of play he wants.

The NFL single game rushing record was just set by Adrian Peterson at 296 yards. The NCAA rushing record is 441 yards. Barry Sanders had four 300 yard rushing games for Oklahoma State, and Darren McFadden with Felix Jones combined for 487 yards of rushing in one game for Arkasas. There is quite a bit a variability there.

Old Coach, a long time beta tester, dials down the in game constants and uses T and Wing based playbooks to allow him to much better simulate 1950's style NCAA games, while I like to stay more closely to the NFL game. As I stated, the game is what one makes of it.


I would have to disagree.


http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1624199

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1625643


Have you actually played the game or asked about game play on the Matrix Games board? This statement shows not only that you don't know what the game can do, but you also do not understand how it does it.

Nice try.

Just over one year, as in just enough out of context posts.

Just: merely, only.

While I can see how it could be read the other way, does it matter? Is it over one year or over two? Is it over nine years?

No, it doesn't matter; it is just bashing. I guess you scored a million points on Guitar Hero too.

You realize I don't actual think it shakes, right?



Those are anomoly's. When you look at the info averaged out, everything looks "normal". That's not what I'm seeing with this data.

Again, you say you can make it mirror these things. I have yet to see data that mirrors any of those things, and that's what we're asking for. We do not want to buy a game to THEN find out that it doesn't do what we want it to do.

You again claim that some tester has done this, and you've done that, and it has mirrored these real life leagues. Yet, you can't provide us with any data to actually show that it happens - can you see where this is a problem for us?

You don't really expect one example over one game taht got a score predicted right to prove anything, do you?

Isn't the CFL football that we know?


I just gave you another example, but you blew it off.

You want to cherry pick the results to fit your premise.

I gave you this game as an example, and it is no more or more less than that.

If you think that 1 year plus 9 months is "just over" one year, and are trying to defend that level of accuracy, then that really says it all about this discussion of the game.

See, this here is what we call a difference of opinion. You, I am guessing, are impressed with the game "predicting" the score when it was actually off by one point. Close though, I will give you that.

I on the other hand look at the stats. Maximum Football produced a game with 117 combined pass attempts, compared to 67 combined pass attempts in real life. In fact, in real life there were only 111 total offensive plays.

And before you try to brush it off and suggest that the CFL is more pass oriented then the NFL, the CFL record for passes attempts by a QB in a game is 66 I believe. So that one game just happens to have above average stats I supposed. The CFL record for pass attempts in a single game by both teams is 108. Dinwiddie, in the fake game, had 70 pass attempts. The most by a Winnipeg QB this year was 54 in one game, the average usually in the 30's.

I suppose this game "prediction" that was run could be an oddity and is the exception to the rule but somehow I doubt it from everything else I have seen.

And to address the styles of play, specifically the college game as you brought up in a previous post:

The hashmarks on the field are in the same location in the college and the pro game. This is a huge difference in the style of play between the two level, and also has an enormous impact on play creation, since the blocking of the linemen changes greatly depending on how close to the sidelines the ball is when it is snapped.

Two, the option play is an integral part of the college game. If the ball cannot be pitched, then you are severely crippled in the types of plays you can run out of the wing-t, flexbone, wishbone, or other option oriented formation.

I am not too sure. ;)

From the posts on this topic in just the past few days, I can see that many poeple don't have a clue how the game even works. The game does not use tables and stats to work out an end result and then show that result on the screen. The game uses skill attributes to have players react on the field in a physical environment, and the result is determined by what the players are doing on the field. It is because Maximum Football is played in a physical environment, playbooks and gameplans are critical.


I can make the data show what I want it to show. Ask just about anyone who plays the game often, they will tell you that the game can be dialed up or down by the user rather simply.


Here is an example that has been up at the Matrix Games board since last December:


Note that these numbers are not the same as the MFL stats posted. YPC and YPA differ greatly. That is because different leagues want different styles of play. Why is that so difficult a premise to understand?

You do realize that the word "just" has more than one definition, don't you? I mean, I just posted it for you.


I would have to say that just about everyone on the board knows that, so what is the point? The game is different? Yeah, that's my point.

Because you usually just say things, and provide no real data to see ourselves. Someone says the game is wacky, and all over the place with stats. Your arguement is to provide a link to a website that actually backs up the way he feels.

Now, with these last couple of posts, you are actually giving some different things to look at. If I see examples, combined with the words "you can turn the game up or down how you want" then I am more likely to believe it. Just your words, with no real examples means crap to me and I am sure many others here.

Ok, then.

Maximum Football is "just almost" a football game.

Seriously. You are showing me 931 passing yards for both teams and they somehow only manage 3 passing touchdowns. Doesn't that seem odd to you? So basically each defense was getting their asses kicked up and down the field until they reached the end zone and the defenses became the '85 Bears.

On a side note the description on the top right picture is funny:

This is almost juicy enough to make a parody. Thanks for that.

I am well aware of how it works. If the "physics engine" is well done, it should still produce "realistic" results.

It only took about 6th months, but finally we get what we were asking for.

Those numbers do look pretty good, but confuse me because you say it has been there since December. It was pretty obvious by reading the boards pretty thoroughly after release that this did not match what the general customer base was seeing with default settings.

Is this the typical experience under those default settings that that user mentions?

I'm guessing that they really had at least 6. After all, this is mAxmium foToball math.

I heart this thread :D

Actually I am confused by the bottom left picture too. Since he was on the winning team, is it saying you don't win a ring when you win? That's....interesting.

You're right. 39 out of 70 passes mean less than 50% completed according to the graphic. I didn't realize you can also customize completion percentage in the game as well.

I'm so football watching deprived those screenshots are actually starting to look good.

Antmeister, how trollish of you to point out these "just" slightly inaccurate captions ;)

I know you are just joking, but I believe I have a just cause to show those screenshots that are just slightly inaccurate. "Why?", you ask. Just because.

stop causing problems antmeister!

I just didn't realize that there were just so many ways to use the word 'just'. I figure somewhere between just over 20 and just under 17.

I am embarrassed that I only have like 1-2 posts in this thread.

Now I have three. That's the magic number.

I cannot believe that there can still be a debate about the merits of this game.

LOL! This is just wrong.

Predicted


Actual:

Passing was only off by 525 yards

You just never know

Don't you mean 'just' 525 yards?

:D

At this stage, actually at any stage, there was never was a debate. Marauders just wanted to join in the ribbing for some odd reason and I am guessing everyone is just having fun with it because we don't know if Marauders is trying to be for real or simply trying to stir up a thread that has almost been forgotten numerous times.

This thread, I love. More! More! More!

Imagine Marauders as the marketing rep for a car manufacturer about to release the first car you can customize on the fly whenever and whatever you want and when the press hear wind of this I imagine the conversation going like this:

Press reporter #1: Mr. Marauders, as you get ready to roll out these cars tomorrow, what features do you think are going to stand out to the consumer?

Marauders: Steering wheel, tires and and a humungoid cup holder if you type the cheat code in the steering column.

Press reporter #1: Uh....wha....why are those features? Aren't those expected?

Marauders: The fact that you have a humungoid cup holder is gonna be a great selling point to this vehicle. Plus, you can change out the steering wheel easily by screwing it in using a customized tool another manufacturer makes.

Press reporter #1: Uh...okay...and the tires?

Marauders: They will in fact come with the car and you will only have to change them every 150 miles due to the fact that it is bloated with a lot of great features.

Press reporter #1: (packing away her stuff) I'm done.

Marauders: Next! Yes, you portly man.

Press reporter #2: Can you give us any specs on this car? There doesn't seem to be much info on this car floating out there and there are rumors it peaks at 35 miles per hour, runs on a 1/2 gallon tank of gasoline for a maximum distance of 23.799999999 miles, and intermittenly teleports small children and/or wild animals into the car for no apparent reason.

Marauders: Well you were looking at an earlier prototype stage. At our private labs, we are seeing max speeds of about 350 mph and average driving speeds of 150 if you have the customized wind sail on the roof...

Press reporter #2: What? There is another prototype stage. Isn't this gonna roll out tomorrow?

Marauders: Hold on to your sweaty socks there. Of course there is another stage. In fact I am part of the team that helps with its design decisions. Maximum Ford would have it no other way and since I am part of this secret team I am not at license to tell you more about it due to some contracts I signed.

Press reporter #2: Uh....didn't you just tell us the "new" prototype has a max speed of 350 mph and some other crazy stuff. All I want to know is what the car is going to eventually look like and how it will perform compared to say a standard economy car.

Marauders: We don't manufacture your typical American cars. That's already been done.

Press reporter #2: I am just asking how it is going to look. I saw your protype a decade ago and wasn't impressed. I just wanna know what your final product looks like. By the way can we test drive these cars today?

Marauders: Our designer didn't put too much time into making extra keys for the cars. If you want to drive one, you gotta buy one. Keys take too much time to make and we want him to spend his time to improve the prototype.

Press reporter #2: Alright I will bite, how much will this car cost?

Marauders: Well since this was designed by a single person using Autocad, you're looking for a reasonable price range of $150,000. But remember, you are getting the first customizable car. You can even change out the doors with just a little elbow grease.

Press reporter #2: Ok...that is shit.

Marauders: You are just an asshole.

Press reporter #2: What did you call me?

Maruders: There is more than one definition of the word "just".

That was really long Ant.

Maybe you could have spent that time posting pictures and videos on your lame myspace that you never log in to. ;)

Freaking myspace junkie! :D

Great Ant.

Only thing I would add in there is that you have to make 100 tweaks and adjustments to the car before you can start it, and then you have to spend the next 2 years making tweaks until you can get it to run the way we have said. What we have said about the car, but it's up to all of you to figure out how to get it to run that way. We did this because we understand some people like 5 MPG while others like 100 MPG.

Brilliant. Just brilliant.

tl;dr

but that last part made me lawl

Fixed that shit for ya

Knowing *how* something works isn't akin to knowing that something *doesn't* work. I mean, we're no rocket scientist over here (well, except for tk), but we don't need a degree to know that when the rocket blew the fuck up on the launch pad, it didn't work.

What Lucas failed to mention was his results were from a single game. Yep, he had 0.16 fumbles lost in that game and 59.16 total plays. Maximum customization baby!

Don't worry Marauders, I'm just kidding! ;)

With all of the linkage to the Matrix Games board, I would have thought at least one link would have gone to posts like that.


I agree.

There was a prerelease video that went out, and the passing was much too high. I was actually one of the major critics of that on the Matrix Games board. I stated it was much too high and unrealistic for many computer game players that wanted statistics much closer to the NFL standard.

Because many of the beta team members had also been on the pre-matrix game board, and after the release NDA was lifted, I asked them about game features and areas that needed help. One thing that needed to be tweaked was the playbooks. That is when I became a beta team member.

I must state this again, playbooks and gameplans are a critical factor when using coaching mode, and defenses are more difficult to set up correctly just as they are in the real world.


I suspect so, as that is what he used. These are being tweaked often, and many game owners dial them up or down by how they like the game played.

Because the game allows features to be selectcted for hybrid rules (giving American rules the rouge ...), there are many types of leagues that can be played. One guy is even trying to have a no-punts option, but the game was not really set up to do that.

One thing the beta guys have been working on is making it easier to set the sim game setting up to match the 3D game play. If a game owner wants a more open game, then allowing a more open sim game to match is important.

On a side note, someone earlier noted that one league didn't have field goals over 50 yards. That is an item that the team owner sets in the playbook. If one wants his kicker to go for 55 yard kicks, then one can set that as the maximum range of the kicker for the playbook. The default playbooks have it set at 45 yards.

The game must be doing some neat tricks to simulate indoor football, then.

It would have helped if he would actually have got them right and in context.


One may note that the creator of the topic in the Matrix Games forum posted that this caption was incorrect just a few posts after he posted the graphic. It is pretty simple to point that out when the person that created the graphic already did.


Of course, he may be confused because he is used to watching a ball move back and forth on the screen as a graphic, but one can clearly see the ball in the air on its way to the Blue Bombers' receiver in the middle of the graphic (note it isn't just teleported there).

Future CFL Hall of Famer Milt Stegall retired after the Grey Cup as a Winnipeg Blue Bomber. Stegall always has been a Winnipeg Blue Bomber since signing his first CFL contract, and the Winnipeg Blue Bombers were not the winning team.

How ironic it is that Antmeister's reply to that caption is inaccurate .

Nevertheless, the captions were done by the person starting the topic. They have little revelence on the game itself.