Hmmm a pardon on the day General Flynn might be going to jail. Coincidence?


Edit: Sentencing delayed until the fall

My post was directed a general group that goes beyond these pages. If there are people here, who fit in that group, so be it, but I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular. I posted it here, because it's really the only place I vent. It wasn't directed at anyone specific here. I didn't call anyone out by name. I used some harsh language, but again, I wasn't responding to anyone, it was sort of a Tourette's outburst more than anything.

I never trust Trump or his motives. That said its never the wrong time to do the right thing and this was long over due.

Guess that doesn't apply to arson.

Can't figure out what might be different about these individuals with the "law and order" bunch. Hmmmmm.

Anyways, here's what those guys did.

Man, this "arson" is more nuanced than you are making it out.
They had grazing rights on the land. They were trying to protect livestock and feed stores by setting back fires to prevent the spread of a wildfire into their permit land. Their fire lines didnt hold. They were charged for burning 150 acres when the wild fire consumed a few thousand acres they were fighting. It was alleged that US Forest Service fire fighters even advised them how to set the back burn, which is an approved and often used fire fighting technique.


I'd love to know what Rainmaker is insinuating with the "what might be different" comment.

So, you are saying you want civility?

C'mon man. Not here.

Jury found them guilty. They also plead guilty. Their own family testified against them in court. They are career criminals who committed another bigger crime to cover it up.

The rest is garbage misinformation spread by "sovereign citizen" and "patriot" groups who magically don't think laws should apply to them. Whether it be Randy Weaver selling illegal weapons. David Koresh raping children. Or the Montana Freemen who felt they didn't have to pay taxes and could commit bank fraud at will.

The irony of this is the reason they got a harsh sentence is because of a Republican law that had mandatory minimum sentences. But per usual, the law and order crowd really only wants law and order for certain people.

Cross a border with your child: Laws are laws and don't complain about the consequences when we have to remove you from your child and lock you up. It's your fault.

Be a convicted serial arsonist with long criminal history who has threatened people for decades: It's nuanced.

Funny how that was the story for both arson charges even though others, including family members, testified that that wasn't true.

How was Pilotman's rant not a personal attack on people like me who cast protest vote?

Nuanced arson. Classic, my man!

Was your name mentioned or was it a specific reply to you?

That's the way it has always worked around here. I can say, all Steelers fans are goat fucking child molesters, and I'm fine. If I say, Pilotman is a goat fucking child molester, I'm in trouble. Personally, I have problems with the distinction, but it has always been enforced that way.

In hindsight, knowing what you know now, would you have voted differently?

e.g. wondering if the you-and-like have voter's remorse?

As a Brit, what is your take on the baby Trump float?

I googled but didn't find an UK opinion survey. Any insights to share?

I agree it could be construed as a personal attack and it doesn't need to mention you by name or in a direct reply. Substitute "protest vote(rs)" with religious/ethnicity/sexual preference/MF etc. reference and I can see this board get in an uproar.

A few thoughts...

-protest voters aren't a protected class, under US law (or any law), nor is there a history of discrimination against protest voters;
-I read it as a general display of frustration, not unlike people from time to time do in the college football thread or NFL thread;
-if it had been personally targeted, whether by name or not (sub-text, direct quote, whatever), it would have been treated differently;
-we do a pretty good job of following the general rule of not being an asshat, keep it that way; and
-in general people are given a pretty wide berth, don't abuse it.

You are blaming the protest voters for Trump being elected and I'm sure they contributed to that.

However, are you being fair? There were other factors that did/could have also swayed the vote, why not blame them also?

I'm not a protest voter but I can see why they would take it personally.

Counter point


Students Hate Trump's SCOTUS Pick... Don't Realize He Hasn't Made It Yet - YouTube

Kinda funny.

But I do agree there was a certain level of "white anxiety" (whatever the term is) as some others have said. I'm just not convinced to the degree or scale.

Certainly there was "some level"
Just like there was "some level" of black pride vote that supported BO just because of his race and "some level" that supportted Hillary just because she was a female.


The rub is in what %. I mean every side has cooks and loons.

I agree devil is in the details, it could be 10%, 50%, 90% etc. and I do infer (right or wrong) that many on this board thinks is more like 90%.

I honestly don't know how to put a % on it but I'll settle on 50% plus or minus 20%.

Fair.

Couple counterpoints of my own:

1) The sitting President is a rhetorical blowhard for whom everything has to be the most whatever ever. In this case, the best, most conservative, etc etc. The likelihood of him selecting a moderate with strong bipartisan support is vanishingly slim. Yeah, it's knee-jerk on the part of those kids, but Trump was never, ever, going to nominate Garland or Srivanasan to the seat. They're reflexively against his pick, but it's not like he hasn't given them reason to be.

2) Everybody's got blind spots, and while these kids are no different, having a hate-on for a guy who, at minimum, hums the tune for misogyny and white supremacy doesn't really rise to that level. The middle- and late-aged white voters I referred to earlier mostly are either incapable of or unwilling to do the unpacking necessary to recognize that racial anxieties were at the heart of their vote for Trump. "But her emails" was a comfortable way to deflect from that.

Ain't saying there has never been, nor could ever be, a Democratic candidate who might cause a similar effect with the base, but while these kids make for a "ha ha stupid liberal kids" moment, they aren't really an apples-to-apples comparison.

What percentage of people won't ever be known, but multiple studies have shown that higher levels of racial resentment correlated with higher chances of voting for Trump. Racial resentment was a much better predictor than economic anxiety.

Blame Comey? Sure
Blame Russia? Sure
Blame 25 years of non-stop Republican fault finding and conspiracy attacks on Clinton? You bet
Blame Dems? Sure


But, you know damn well where things were, and when they were there coming down to the final days. Ultimately, none of those other things are going to change the outcome of the race. So the final blame goes to voters. Because, let's say trump was corrupt as they come, straight in Russia's back pocket and he ends up getting tossed. It'll all be after the fact, after the damage is done, the only thing that would have changed the outcome we have now are the voters. So yep, they are to blame.

Will be interesting to place trump into historical context. I mean, civil rights needed a Bull Connor. We needed to irradiate 100,000’s of Japanese to never use nukes again and avoid WW3.

Maybe with trump the youth will be engaged like they became during Vietnam. I don’t think me too, immigration, anti-white nationals, gun laws or corporate collusion would have been nearly addressed if Clinton were president. In fact, I think the country would have lost young voters for a generation.

Paul Manafort loses again:


https://www.buzzfeed.com/zoetillman/...Do#.ej2EpvL8Z6

You also have to include the non-voters in your equation.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-the-election/

Without question. Lump them in with the protest voters.


Here's a funny similarity that I see in local (as in HOA) politics and national. I'm not for anything that creates barriers for legit citizens to vote. However, in the event, that such barriers exist and you don't figure it out for yourself, before the day of, that's on you. Where it's similar to HOA politics, is that there is a large contingent of owners, who get mad, feel like they are left out, say nobody listens, or outright ask questions they shouldn't. None of these people actually come to meetings, read the bylaws or covenants, have any idea where their money goes, and they all, pretty much flat out refuse to learn or put any time toward it. They love to complain as it suits them and blame everyone else, because they are clueless. They complain if they have to spend ANY time doing anything for themselves, or if they feel like enough isn't being done FOR them. They are complaining to people who literally put hours a month to serve them, and over the years, have spent hundreds of hours to serve them, and are the very definition of doing it themselves.

So, on both sides of the political spectrum, you have people like this. They are all useless.

More tariffs!
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/polit...ump/index.html

Watching some farming forums has been interesting. The markets have been tanking but it's not necessarily hurting the row croppers yet as the new crop isn't made or sold yet. Most old crop is sold already. So there are a few different opinions. One side is that the tariffs are not affecting the markets, it's because good growing weather. Other side is still maintaining that Trump is such a great negotiator that the Chinese will blink before harvest and prices will skyrocket.

There is a growing contingent that is becoming more vocal in their disdain for these trade games.

I guess I shouldn't be shocked, but pardoning those morons is leap for even this administration.

I mean commutation, sure, whatever but pardoning is silly.

Nope. I'd do it again a thousand times. To my mind there's a bar you have to clear before I'll even consider voting for you. It's pretty low. Most major presidential candidates in my lifetime, both parties, clear it easily. This time neither came close. My personal approach is basically that I refuse to be a sheep in the sense of 'well, this is who everyone else picked, so those are our choices'. Nope. Others making bad decisions doesn't mean me doing so also is proper. Or to put it otherwhise, I believe in choosing what's good, not what's less evil.

I could've told you I would hate it before he made the pick, so without watching it I don't see what's so ridiculous about it. "Students hate guy who has a terrible track record at making decisions". Woo.

NEW: @POTUS issues full pardons for Oregon ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond who were embroiled in the Bundy/compound takeover dispute of 2014 pic.twitter.com/hbP0R3QejU

— Saagar Enjeti (@esaagar) July 10, 2018

Totally normal. Very fine people.

Also nobody in WH seems to understand what "clemency" and "pardon" mean but, also normal. This is fine.

So Trump is trying to insult Gemany by saying they're captive to Russia while at the same time telling us Russia is the good guys.

So now the count is up to eight wrestlers at Ohio State who said Jim Jordan knew what was happening and did nothing:


Eighth Ex-OSU Wrestler Says Jordan Knew About Sexual Abuse

Makes about as much sense as saying we spend too much on defense and demanding increases in defense spending.

Under the radar with all the supreme court, NATO, and Russian summit news, is an executive order Trump issued calling for an end to the competitive exam process that administrative Law Judges go through as part of their hiring. Now they are political appointees that can be fired at will (i.e rule against Trump):


https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...itive-service/

Maybe this is obvious to people who follow politics more closely than I do, but I read recently that this a conscious, intentional, Republican tactic that is very effective - accuse the other side (or in this case, Germany), of doing what you know you're guilty of. That way, when the other side accuses you of the same thing, they're just repeating you and it takes out some of the sting.

I think this may also be part of of why Republicans are so much more effective politically than Democrats. In-power Republicans are always thinking and acting tactically, whereas Democrats tend to take moral positions and hope that everything falls into place somehow.

Which is also why, when the Democrats do try to think and act tactically, that the Republicans call them out as hypocrites. It's why my current tactic of buck up and burn it down, is the only one needed. Watching McConnell speak out of both sides of his mouth for 8 years, and do everything in his power to restrict everything, means that is the tactic that is needed. There is no other tactic, than that until he and the rest of the leadership responsible for it is gone.

Yup, that's also a tactic. Like with the Supreme Court thing. The Democrats seem primarily concerned with being in the moral right and proclaiming that to everyone, the Republicans are primarily concerned with getting their guy on the court and keeping Obama's out. It's just philosophically opposite ways to approach politics. One is more effective, one maybe helps you sleep better at night.

Best laid plans and all...

So Mueller responded to Manafort's request for better conditions in jail with this:


https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...o-Continue.pdf

I don't have a problem with saying you hate the pick.
I do have a problem with saying "he picked a known racist"...when the pick hasnt been made.

Trump told NATO that everyone should spend 4% of GDP on defense. To put that in its insane context, the U.S. in 2017 spent "only" 3.6% of GDP.

It will be a miracle if NATO survives Trump.

I wonder how strong NATO was to begin with considering that most countries weren't meeting the current military spending guidelines. Is it weakening or was it already weak and is now being exposed by the "Trump stress test".

NATO, WTO, and the EU are the keys to global peace. We're always going to be the big dog in NATO because that's what benefits us. Having peace and a stable economic system is the foundation of our power.

Or maybe arbitrary numbers are arbitrary.

I think this is how you negotiate high-end real estate in New York City. Aim high and then move low and convince your buyer they're getting a good deal.

Hasn't that been Russia's goal the entire time?

LOL.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-trump/564854/

Interesting piece in The Atlantic that makes arguments for why those types of fears are Henny Penny sky falling thinking.

Jim Jordan getting annoyed at the "fake news" CNN for contacting all his staff and interns for dirt on him:


Rep. Jim Jordan‏Verified account @Jim_Jordan









Now @CNN is contacting all 100+ of our former staff and interns asking for dirt on me. Getting desperate! How can you ever trust such #fakenews?

Paul Ryan says the Ethics committee won't open an investigation into the wrestlers claims against Jordan:


AP PoliticsVerified account @AP_Politics
House Speaker Paul Ryan says the House Ethics Committee would not look at wrestlers' claims against Rep. Jim Jordan because the alleged events occurred before he was in office. http://apne.ws/P9hrGgu '

I'd say the big difference is that this is the first time an American president has questioned the alliance and refuses to state publicly that he'll honor article 5.

Honestly, I don't have an issue with his reasoning. That's really between Jordan and his constituents and what, if any legal standing remains. He's still going to have to go back to Ohio and deal with this. I doubt it'll go away, in fact, it could be the sort of thing that just festers and makes matters worse for him.

Seems as if he is living the high-life right now. He'll be moving to Alexandria soon.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/polit...lls/index.html

I really don't like Papa John's so not a big deal to me.

But I am somewhat upset re: Col. Sanders because I do like KFC. I think I can rationalize he gets a pass because of the time and place. If it was now, it would definitely be a bigger problem.

NATO relevance has declined but since we are in a pseudo/beginnings of a new cold war, I'll buy it. I can also see WTO with a process to resolve economic/trade issues.

EU goes a little too far. Regional peace maybe but don't see global peace. I would put the UN before the EU.

Manafort himself called it VIP treatment, so good luck trying to defend that :)

We've been very supportive of European integration after WW1 & WW2 because it was thought, and turned out to be true, that a tight bond between European countries would lead to a more peaceful Europe and world. A big war in Europe is not going to be contained to Europe, so stopping wars there benefits the entire world.

Losing the WW2 generation has proven to be dangerous because all across the globe we're forgetting how things used to be and that a generally peaceful planet is an historical anomaly.

Within the context of Big Damn Donnybrooks, the EU absolutely contributes to world peace.

There's always gonna be little brushfires, conflicts in parts of the world that escape the notice.

But when Europe ignites, the world burns.

That's the lesson of 1939, 1914, and 1618.

They ran a pedophile for Senate. I don't think they care about this. In fact, they're claiming it's a "deep state" conspiracy.

We're a decade away from Subway Jared giving the keynote at the RNC convention.

GOP Rep Says Purported Abuse Victims Tied to Deep State:

"They are people who have loose affiliation with a deep state out to get Jim Jordan and this is the way they are manifesting their hatred for a man who is doing everything to fight for the regular folks in this country." pic.twitter.com/uH5gOleSNK

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) July 12, 2018

Sure, I'll concede "contributes" but is the EU a "key to global peace". I don't see it rising to that level.

Put the words "Deep State" in any statement and at least half the GOP will believe anything you say at this point.

The combination of NATO and the EU is the guarantor of European peace. NATO binds them militarily and the EU binds them economically. The two together make war between most European states nearly unthinkable. Take away either one of those two groups and the chances for conflict increase.

He snitched on the Colonel!

Agree with this 100%. With all the fake news and fear mongering it's easy to forget that large swathes of the West is in an almost historically unprecedented period of peace and relative prosperity. If this post-WW2 gen doesn't read their history books, it might seem like stretches like this will go on forever, or get better and better, when the exact opposite is certain at some point. Things can, and will, get much much worse, and almost certainly not any better than they are today. I don't think that's a pessimistic view either, just a realistic one backed up by a solid 4000+ years of recorded human history.

"a" key? without question. "the" key? Debatable, but if Europe had a silver bullet, they wouldn't have fought (essentially) three world wars getting to where they are now.

The EU secures economic cooperation and NATO secures military cooperation. Those are the two major reasons any European countries might have for conflict with one another; remove them from play, and what you have is a generally peaceful Europe, which means a generally peaceful planet.

Not "no wars, anywhere, ever," but no conflagrations that draw in the world's 10-20 largest economies and lay waste to a generation.

Stormy Daniels arrested while performing at Ohio strip club, her lawyer, Michael Avenatti says - CBS News

I'm drunk and I don't know what this means but I'm entertained none-the-less.

ETA:

So only family members can touch nude strippers? Who made this law? Was there some state congressman who said "I want to touch my stripping cousin but no one else can"?

I saw the best tweet last night:

"Waiting for the white smoke to rise from the pizza oven, indicating the selection of a new Papa John"

This whole thing is the absurdity of the US in 2018 in a nutshell. One, just because the N word was uttered, doesn't make it auto-racism. The guy was quoting someone else. Overreacting to this is stupid.

Two, why the hell would you even use the word? Just say "N-word" or "derogatory name" or something similar that gets your point across. Even in a private/business context, that was stupid.

Three, What the hell's your point? Yeah, I get it, in today's world people connected to businesses are getting hammered for hardly anything, compared to 40-50 years ago. So? Col. Sanders/KFC's hey day was the 60s and 70s when there was still segregation - it's not hard to believe he spoke that way.

This is the equivalent to getting bad press for suggesting women should stay in the kitchen and complaining because magazine and TV ads from the 50s regularly gave that kind of advice to women. What a stupid point to make, even in private and even out of frustration.

So basically, everyone and everything is stupid and pointless.

The wording indicated that EU of one the 3 keys e.g. "NATO, WTO, and the EU are the keys to global peace."

If the proposition is that because there is relative stability in Europe and therefore a generally peaceful planet I do think that is too broad to apply globally. Sure conflicts in Europe are minimized, but there are plenty of other wars/conflicts that the EU/NATO has not played a significant part in preventing, participated in stopping, nor would they likely play a part in stopping in future.

One list of hot-spots
https://www.cfr.org/interactives/glo...nflict-tracker

List of wars since early 90's
List of wars 1990–2002 - Wikipedia

FWIW, I do think UN is a better substitute than EU as one of the 3. Although the UN does not prevent "no wars, anywhere, ever" it is certainly represents the rest of the "global" better.

Thanks man. I'm taking this as an okay to enjoy KFC without feeling bad.

Except for your stomach, immediately after eating KFC.

I love Popeyes, but it doesn't exactly do good things for me within a couple of hours of eating.

I've tried Church's, Popeyes & Bojangles and think KFC is better for traditional fried chicken (and love their cole slaw).

IMO, CFA has the best chicken sandwich and Zaxby's the best chicken salad.

The statement from the PR company that quit sure makes it sound like there was a pattern of problems rather than one incident.

It is definitely a tense time, not least because the US is teaming up with the rogue powers such as Russia, North Korea while abusing its former allies.

As far as I can tell Trump is basically taking a stance for pulling out of NATO in the future and I doubt any European leader is planning on the US to help with defense in the future.

If Trump isn't a Russian stooge then he's at the very least attempting to dismantle the European Union in the hope that allows the US to be a more successful bully against individual countries than a bloc. That he doesn't care if that allows Russia to invade further countries there seems incredibly short-sighted as any conflict there will eventually effect the US.

Democrats are more analytical than Republicans — barely | YaleNews

Well if you didn't already know how divided this country is one look at the twitter comments about Peter Strzok's testimony before Congress today clearly shows it. He's either a hero/patriot or the vilest human being ever.

I've also read that it wasn't the only thing said on the call that was offensive. Not sure Papa J is the guy you want to defend here.

Yeah. If I'm on the right, I'm just saying this guy isn't representative, etc. etc. etc. and leaving him to make pizza and drop N-bombs on his own time.

Does make it funny that Papa Johns dropped the NFL earlier because it said that the police/anthem protests were bad for its business. Certainly saves the NFL the trouble of having to make a similar decision.

Maybe Ambien has struck again?

Yeah this guy has a history of saying ignorant/stupid shit. Crazy how people can be so smart/brilliant in their field while completely lacking common sense/civility. Or does that much money just give you a sense of invincibility.

Well, if the line you draw is "crap that Col. Sanders got away with saying," that probably explains it.

His fall was almost as fast as Pitino's (or I should say, as fast as Pitino). Fitting that Louisville's FB stadium is named for Papa Johns.

Again, not as a defense of what he said, but to my original point, I do think it is ridiculous that this particular use of the N word is being generally characterized as a "slur." Yes, the word itself is a slur, but he didn't use it as a slur. The inability for people to see things for what they are is maddening sometimes. You can condemn him for using the word and still recognize he was merely quoting someone else in a broader context and not directing it at someone. It was wrong, but for different reasons. That doesn't seem to matter - either that's lost on people, or they are willfully ignoring that fact.

It's not like he was singing along with The Weeknd or Kendrick Lamar here.

Wouldn't context matter? If he said something like, "Wow, times have changed. Colonel Sanders said n@#$#@, but now we all have to be more careful," I would agree it's not clear cut.

But if he said something like, "Colonel Sanders said n@#$#@, so why do I need to watch what I say?" that isn't just pointing out an historical fact.

Apparently the UofL stadium deal may allow Schnatter to rename the stadium now that he's no longer with Papa Johns. After the Pitino stuff they deserve Schantter Field.

I think the context was, he was complaining that what he said wasn't nearly as bad as Col. Sanders using the N word. I don't see that as being some sort of acceptance of the use - although, as mentioned previously, he was stupid to even say it, and his point was not all that persuasive.

Ya remember when Trump said North Korea had returned remains of 200 war dead...


North Korea was supposed to meet with the US today in the DMZ to discuss this further. Never showed, never called, nothing.


http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...-troops-report

I'm not clear on the context given the limited quote I've seen.

It’s all one giant con

I guess people on the conference call musta felt that he had a hard R chambered?

https://www.politico.eu/article/idio...d-trump-visit/

I laughed long and loud in my office at this.

heh Izulde that's pretty good


My favorite part of the whole Strzok debacle is when (D) Gerry Connolly read emails to him where the writer said negative things about Trump during the election, and asked him if he wrote them. After he said no, he revealed who did write them-all Republican members of Congress.


Found a link for it: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ushpmg00000016

Peter Strzok Summoned Before Congress Again For Texts Calling Trey Gowdy ‘A Pissy Little Shithead’ https://t.co/3I62ScLHoV pic.twitter.com/MjnSPYsbnM

— The Onion (@TheOnion) July 12, 2018

Trump attacks London mayor over terrorism: 'He has done a terrible job' | TheHill

And Khan is the one allegedly acting out of personal spite with allowing that float. Suuuuuure ...

What?

In case there's any doubt whether Trump is a white nationalist,

LOL

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/39...r-trump-summit

Yes. You note the plural there? No one of them is solely responsible. If there are more than one, then any given one is "a" key, not "the" key.

Get rid of NATO, the WTO, and other parts of the post-WW2 order, and the EU by itself ain't gonna do shit. But European integration in general is how you avoid world-spanning conflicts.

When Europe ignites, the world burns.

And, again, keeping Europe from getting rowdy and fractious doesn't mean there won't be any wars ever. Global peace doesn't mean (sadly) that everybody sings kumbaya over s'mores and hot cocoa.

It DOES mean the world's wealthiest nations aren't sending a generation or two into the meat grinder to satisfy the egos of their rulers.

And a world where the wealthiest nations aren't at each other's throats is a world where the wealthiest nations have both the focus and the resources to try to help other nations find security without conflict.