Doug Jones won a race. Beto kept it close and helped push down ballot victories. Harrison got clobbered by the least popular Senator in the country despite having an enormous money advantage. I'm for rewarding people who take on tough races. An ambassadorship or some other position in the administration is fine.

But what are Harrison's qualifications? His career has mostly been as a lobbyist for banks and pharmaceutical companies and then raising money for the Democrats. Why would you put someone like that in charge of the DNC? Find someone who knows how to win.

Didn't catch Biden's speech but did read his proposal.

Didn't see anything on how he would pay for it (and not sure his previous tax the rich over $400K will pay for $2T) so want to see where the money is coming from.

Also, enjoyed him ripping into current, pathetic coronavirus response. Has a president-elect ripped into a current president policies 1-2 weeks before inauguration? I don't remember, thought it was unusual, but won't be surprised if it happened all the time.

Don't worry, Rainmaker says he's the most fiscally conservative president since Carter.

I doubt he will get the full $2T. It's a starting point for negotiations and I'm good with that.

Biden has also said there will be a second bill. Unknown how much that will cost but probably north of $1T also.

Silly question. We haven’t paid for anything since before 2000.

Who has had a more fiscally conservative record?

Um... isn't that pretty much every Presidential campaign and it starts literally years before Inauguration week?

SI

Have to keep dumping trillions into fighter jets that can't fly in the rain.

I was referring specifically to 1-2 weeks before inauguration, so after the race has been called. Don't most president-elects just wait during this transition period vs blasting predecessor?

I don't remember it happening and wondering if this was unusual.

I think Biden is paying for it by the economy not completely tanking. I think it is well worth the price.

2008 is probably the closest situation. The Obama people were not bashing the Bush people b/c they were all working super closely together on the financial crisis.

In contrast, the Trump people were keeping the Biden people out of COVID meetings as recently as this weekend.

The Biden people weren't even told (let alone consulted) about the massive changes to the rollout plan announced last week.

So, yeah, it is unusual. Add another norm to the list that Trump and his people broke to the detriment of all of us.

Yup.

Borrowing is ultra cheap right now. And we need to spend now to keep from losing many many trillions in output down the road.

The biggest problem with a 2T plan is that it isn't a 6T plan.

We should spend as much as the "1 million applying for unemployment benefits isn't a problem" crowd lets us spend and not a cent less.

FWIW, 2.5+ months for a transition is just too damn long.

In a normal world, it makes a lot of sense to have a 3 month transition. It's not like we should expect a President to hit the ground running. Biden's an old hand because he's a long time Senator and former VP so he probably needs less lead time. But the previous four transitions included an "outsider" "businessman", a 3 year senator, and 2 former governors. Those are positions that require real time to adjust to the task of running the Presidency and its administration. And, in a normal world without a stupid, petulant manbaby as in the most powerful position, that time could be very well spent.

SI

It seems like a really weird line and thing to worry about: "Hey, you guys just spent the last year bashing each other - but could you cool it for the last two weeks".

I mean, again, as above - you'd hope they'd be working together. But, I mean, when the outgoing President is not actually doing a transition with coordinating and sharing information and instead actively setting up traps like making stupid foreign policy decisions and dismantling environmental protections (oh, and fomenting insurrection) just because they know it's their last chance... I mean, what's left except to try and put public pressure on his predecessor to actually transition.

SI

Oh, and this is probably optimistic of me, but the turn of this thread makes me hope for a time when our political arguments can be less about "how seriously should we take that white nationalist attempt to overthrow the election?" and more about "should we increase taxes or reduce benefits to keep Social Security solvent?"

I think that there's a lot of good-faith disagreement we can have about things that has just been lost as we've all had to deal with the Trump show for 4 years.

People are already bashing Biden for "breaking a campaign promise" by pushing for additional $1400 checks instead of $2000 more. Sigh.

Yeah. Leave it to Dems to win an argument and then scream about how they really lost.

There's a joke in there about the new metal detectors and Dems shooting themselves in the foot, but I can't quite formulate it.

Biden literally said the $600 was a down payment... I can understand thinking the payment should be more, but say that instead of Biden isn't giving us the $2000 he said he would.

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Biden re: masks, “time to grow up”. My thoughts exactly

I did see a place where 2000 was said and it sounded like 2000 more...after that one of the democratic senators bitched about it "not being what they agreed to". And then this happened. I think the whole thing was a misunderstanding

But yeah get ready for 4 years of this type of bitching

I’m pretty sure if they said fine, here’s another $2000 for a total of $2600, people would be bitching when they didn’t get a check for $2600.

They did promote it as vote for these Senate candidates and get a $2000 check. Doesn't say anything about $1400.

If we're counting previous stimulus checks, why isn't the new check for $200?

I had a conversation about the $2000 and thought it might've gone this way:

1. We got a $600 stimulus.
2. Pelosi and Schumer were pushing for $2K after Trump said he wanted it to be that amount. If that would've passed, we would get an additional $1400.
3. Since that increase didn't pass, the chance for an increase is done.
4. This $2K is a new effort and would be an additional $2K with no relation to the $600 that could increase to $2K.

Sounds like a lot of people thought of it in that way. The actual plan may have been communicated somewhere, but with many people, like myself, doing a Cliff notes effort on a lot of news with everything going on, it's a detail that has been missed.

How many of these people are actually pissed about $2K checks and how many are just pissed to be pissed?

SI

Almost all are pissed to be pissed. That is what politics is.

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Yeah I'm sure no one is pissed because they were told to support candidates to get a $2000 check and then immediately backtracked when they won to $1400.

I give the Pelosi/Schumer wing a bunch of shit, but here the left is being just as bad. Take the fucking win. Brag about it. Beat the shit out of the GOP with it.

I always thought they wanted $2,000 but only got $600 so another $1,400 would get them to what they wanted. The whole thing seems stupid.

Pretty sure this predates the $600 that went out

Nope

We can pass $2000 relief checks for the people, but we have to win this Senate election.

— Jon Ossoff (@ossoff) January 4, 2021

FYI: My post wasn't meant as a complaint, but as a way that people can be confused.

Also, hard to say that someone shouldn't be upset about not getting more if that's what they thought they were getting. For some, that extra money makes the ends meet for another month or two. Politicians being upset about it, however, seems like more annoying "politicians being politicians" BS.

Well, on them for missing the memo then

I think it's hilarious that the whole thing essentially amounts to legal bribery 'vote for us and we'll give you access to the money tree', and then it's 'no no, we thought you were going to give us a bigger branch than that'. Without even getting into the whole thing where it's your children and grandchildren's money we're talking about.

** Yes, I agree with the need to more stimulus now, and borrowing to do it, just in case anybody has forgotten. But this is the most overt, unabashed vote-buying I've ever seen, and basically just makes want to get some :popcorn:

Well crap. If I had known it was only $1,400 I would have voted for the racist inside traders that didn't want to give any stimulus checks.

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At least they got rid of the 17 and under loop hole.

It never crossed my mind that $2,600 was on the table.

This kind of reminds me of the Obama years somehow. These will be the big controversies when we have a human adult in the white house.

If it is to reach $2000, shouldn't the check be for $200?

Fprce = mass times acceleratoin and E=mc squared

so we'll accelarate the stimulus at the speed of light to get our check

If the Democrats knew how to message, they would call it a $400 billion tax rebate that goes directly to hard working Americans that earn less than $87,000 or married couples making less than $174,000. Or perhaps you just prefer your legal bribery/vote buying to come in the form of corporate, religious, and estate tax breaks because you are a multi-millionaire or billionaire or you get excited by the good old trickle down money that will make its way down to you?

It's pretty clear to me that Biden did imply $2,000 after the $600 was passed so this means it should be $2,000 + $600. How he didn't know (or worse, care) how this would look to the more progressive aka socialist base is a bad sign. I remember hearing about the $2K and wondering if it was on top of the already $600 that was passed.

However, his plan also has $400 in unemployment that is +$100 more than the $300. So the unemployed will make up the difference (and more) in 6 weeks.

Regardless, an unfathomable stumble. At the very least, his team should have anticipated this dissent and communicated something up front.

I never read it as $2600 but don’t follow it that close. Did anyone actually ever say an additional $2000?

I can see why you say this and there is some truth but I call it maybe "50% fact".

My rationale is an additional stimulus has been discussed with Pelosi and Trump/Reps for a while. Back in Aug it was for $1,200. Some stuff about $2,000 in Sep. I'm thinking its even been longer than Aug but couldn't be bothered to scroll through all the old articles.

And I think most would say this was to help people and keep the economy afloat back then more than buying votes (although I am sure that was a secondary concern).

So yeah, it was to buy votes especially in GA for the Senate races for sure, but not so much for the broader Nov elections.

I don't have WaPo subscription but here's a blurb.

The Democrats seized on Trump's mention of $2000 checks and started campaigning on that. This was before the $600 was passed. Once the $600 was passed and signed into law, the Democrats didn't abruptly switch their messaging to say $1400, because that would've incredibly stupid politics in the middle of the campaign, and likely trusted that most sensible people would understand they were talking about the same $2000 all along, which would mean a $1400 increase.

but it doesn't say additional 2K, it says 2K. So $600 and $1400 equaling 2K. I honestly don't see how this can be read any other way

Political operatives are very good at using peoples lack of paying attention to create something out of nothing. This one is really stupid considering they won and now we have to create a controversy to sully the win. AOC has came out and said she supports full $2k checks, and others could try and ask for that as well. Instead, some would rather paint a new President and two new Senators that are already in a tough situation as liars, because the last thing progressives seem to really want is to win.

But not win elections.

I was not ever eligible for these but when I heard it I knew it meant a total of 2000 (1400+600).

What is the downside to making the checks $2000? I am guessing a lot of people could use it.

Shit I would say give them $3000. We just printing money in this country since at least 2001 so what the hell.

We're not saying there's a downside to $2000, but criticizing the ridiculous idea that the $1400 is a betrayal of what was promised.

Honestly, the fact that it's not $1,425 proves that Dems hate America. Imagine ripping $25 from the pockets of Americans in need. So petty.

The downside to 2000 is probably that Manchin would say no.

Take the win. Shitting all over this will only make it more likely that the Dems have less ability to do things in the future. 70% of what you want is a lot better than 0%.

And it's how we end up with the GOP back in power in 2024. "The GOP gave me 0% of what I wanted last time they were in power and the Dems gave me 70% so I'm going to vote GOP."

it isn't 70% of what you want...it's 2000...which they were fighting for all along...ans in the future...they will fight again for more

It will be perfect if Rubio loses a primary to Ivanka.

It's like a car salesman, "no, sorry I wasn't clear, I didn't mean that, I meant this".

The $600 was passed in Dec. In Jan, there were still $2,000 being dandied around to GA voters. Biden should have said "I'm for $2,000 total" or similar to make that clear. I am unaware if he ever made that distinction (and I like to think I was paying attention to the GA senate races).

I'm personally okay with either and my preference is a more targeted stimulus check; take the difference and make it even bigger for those that really need it. What I am saying Biden and team did a poor job of not spelling it out and leaving some room for doubt.

I remember reading how there would be separate payments for $1,400 if it passed. Some people are still waiting on the last $600, or were as of last week at least. The brief debate was between $600 and $2,000. Biden and the Georgia Dem Senate candidates were on the $2,000 side.

I'm still not convinced we'll even get $1,400. That wouldn't make me regret my vote or change any of my elation about having a new president. But we'll have to remember again that the U.S. presidency is not a dictatorship, despite the experience of the last 4 years, things can't be accomplished by waving a magic wand.

I currently am waiting for everything (I have to file my 2020 taxes and claim it as a refund) :(

cough cough


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I wonder if I get 2000 for my college aged students that I claim?

Fast forward to when COVID is finally under control due to these new proactive actions and following science, the MAGA crowd will say it’s all because Dear Leader single handedly built the vaccine.

If they pass this, yes tarcone. That is one of things this fixes. Adult dependants will get full $2000.

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Oh, didn't realize this. Good to know.

I'm still waiting on my $600 checks. Just checked the website and nothing.

In fact, I'm still waiting on my 2019 tax refund. It just says "in progress".

So Biden wants to rejoin the Paris Agreement.

I never understood why this is good for the US. If we want to cut our emissions, then enact laws to cut them. But the "agreement" forces us to spend billions of dollars on other countries, cash that we have to borrow.

Because Climate Change is a global issue and the Gleen Climate Fund of the Paris Agreement is used to help developing countries in adaptation and mitigation - and to entice them to industrialize using green energy rather than fossil fuels (which at the moment is far cheaper than green energy).

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Right. Because if we don't do it, many other nations won't (kinda unfair to tell them. "We're going to continue using up 40% of the world's resources while we don't want you to use 5%" (Numbers made up), so us being part of the agreement reassures other nations to stay in the agreement and we all benefit from the hopeful amelioration of climate change issues.

I've heard 'we should' but not 'we will' on that. I'm curious. I had an adult dependent on my taxes last year, but obviously she didn't get the initial $1200, and she didn't get the $600 second wave, either.

Dunno if, whoops, we're gonna see a credit on my taxes this year, or if she's gonna wake up one morning to money in the bank.

I hadn't heard that part yet, and yeah, that would make a huge difference for us, as I said before, our 2nd check worked out to $360 per person.

The migrant caravan has apparently has dropped from 2,000-4,000 down to 1,000 and hasn't made it into Mexico yet (or don't think).

First test for Mexico without the Trump "big stick" hanging over Mexico to see how it responds. Beyond DACA and a lot of words, I'm unsure of what Biden plans to do with "caravans at the wall (scratch) at the fence".

First test for Biden if Mexico let's them through.

Honduran migrant caravan 1,000 strong demands that Biden match his rhetoric about refugees | Daily Mail Online
[quote]

Trump does get credit specifically for Operation Warp Speed re: development. Not to say a Hillary or Biden wouldn't have their own Operation Warp Speed in a parallel universe but let's give him some credit here.

But yeah, lack of transparency, and all that other BS (e.g. stupid press conferences) that distracted from the real problems ... majority of that is on him.

[quote=Edward64;3323947]The migrant caravan has apparently has dropped from 2,000-4,000 down to 1,000 and hasn't made it into Mexico yet (or don't think).

First test for Mexico without the Trump "big stick" hanging over Mexico to see how it responds. Beyond DACA and a lot of words, I'm unsure of what Biden plans to do with "caravans at the wall (scratch) at the fence".

First test for Biden if Mexico let's them through.

Honduran migrant caravan 1,000 strong demands that Biden match his rhetoric about refugees | Daily Mail Online

OR

we stop painting these people are savage gang members and human traffickers, and allow them to seek asylum so we have some people in this country willing to do the work even the poorest white people wont. Then these people go on to have kids and grandkids that become valuable members of society. some become doctors, scientists, LEOs, professors, all the while contributing to our diversity.

Can't have that, can we.

My hatred for the man is probably blinding me, but why should we give him any credit? He fought against science, undermined his own people, and took zero responsibility for the woeful response. His politicizing something as basic as wearing a mask was responsible for countless deaths. Now the roll out is an absolute disaster, and again he is passing the blame.

Now he deserves credit? Fuck that guy.

I heard stuff like that from Kellyanne Conway too, as she was trying to get Bill Maher to agree to some great things he'd done, and I was like, literally ANY leader could have done those things, none of them were because of trump, he just happened to be the guy in charge in that moment. But like we talked about during the first impeachment, Pence could have been equally, if not more effective in that role, and you'd have rid yourself of a cancerous mob boss, and could have fixed the party before the 2020 blowout.

If they want to secure the inauguration schedule a NASCAR race for that day.

NEW on Biden $1.9T plan:

-- $2K checks (adds $1,400 to $600). Adult dependents IN

-- $400/week UI thru Sept, will push 4 "triggers." Not retroactive

-- CTC to $3,000/yr per kid, fully refundable

-- $15/hr min. wage

-- Eviction moratorium thru 9/21https://t.co/mww4nQ470F

— Jeff Stein (@JStein_WaPo) January 14, 2021

Every announcement on his plan said the stimulus would include adult dependents.

I am assuming the UI and 3K per kid are all under a certain income threshold? The article is behind a paywall.

No doubt the rhetoric is BS.


You said asylum, I'm all for expanding guest worker program. My issue is not with legal but illegal. And yeah, let's take care of 5M in the legal backlog first.

Immigration Wait Times from Quotas Have Doubled: Green Card Backlogs Are Long, Growing, and Inequitable | Cato Institute

Quote:

More than 100,000 legal immigrants — 28 percent of the family‐​sponsored and employment‐​based lines with quotas — waited a decade or more to apply for a green card in 2018, up from 3 percent in 1991. By contrast, 31 percent had no wait at all from the quotas in 1991, while just 2 percent had no wait in 2018. The quota system also imposes limits on the number of green cards for individual nationalities, causing longer waits from countries with the highest demand. Indians averaged the longest wait because of quotas — over 8 years and 6 months. Behind those immigrants who applied for green cards in 2018 stand nearly five million people waiting in the applicant backlog. Without significant reforms, wait times will become impossibly long for these immigrants. Altogether, about 675,000 would‐​be legal immigrants — 14 percent of those waiting in 2018 — would die without seeing a green card if they refused to give up and stayed in the line indefinitely. It will take decades and — in some categories — a half century or more to process everyone else waiting now.

Same as the legal 5M waiting in line.

And why the championing of the illegals "browns" south of the border? Why don't we champion the "yellows" in Asia, or the "browns" in South Asia, or the "blacks" in Africa. I'm all for expanding legal immigration for them before having more illegals from south of the border.

The UI is available for those who qualify for UI (is there an income cap for UI?). The $3k child credit follows the same faze out as the 2K has now (200,000/400,000). The difference is it is fully refundable (only $1400 now is).

This would be great. We shared the first stimulus check with the college kids.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Maybe I'm just compartmentalizing too much here like he gets 20% credit but 80% blame so does the 20% credit really matter.

Because they do the majority of the jobs even the poorest, most uneducated whites wont do. Are there Asians, etc...that do those jobs also, of course.

It is probably a combination of logistics and other things, but it is just easier for people south of the border to come do those jobs. Doesn't mean I don't support all immigrants, but you can't deny this admin has largely demonized the brown ones.

NASCAR is no good anymore after all the Bubba Wallace business last year.

Maybe a bunch of big gun shows across the USA would do the trick.

UI benefits are capped at a maximum weekly value determined by each state.

[quote=Edward64;3323947]The migrant caravan has apparently has dropped from 2,000-4,000 down to 1,000 and hasn't made it into Mexico yet (or don't think).

First test for Mexico without the Trump "big stick" hanging over Mexico to see how it responds. Beyond DACA and a lot of words, I'm unsure of what Biden plans to do with "caravans at the wall (scratch) at the fence".

First test for Biden if Mexico let's them through.

Honduran migrant caravan 1,000 strong demands that Biden match his rhetoric about refugees | Daily Mail Online

There were over 400k stops at the southern border in 2020. A 1000 person caravan won't be noticed.

But the brown people are INVADING!!!

Sure. But if "successful", more will follow. And if those are "successful", more will follow them.

Definition of "successful" in this case is crossing the border illegally and able to find work and/or apply for asylum and allowed in as economic (vs political) refugees.

I know Pompeo is pulling some last minute BS. But some talking heads are talking about how it's binding Biden into a "path".

I don't get it. All Biden has to say publicly is to the effect "Secretary Pompeo does not speak for my administration. Be on notice that I will determine my own foreign policy and may choose or not, to disregard Secretary Pompeo's actions in the past X weeks".

Heh, DailyMail. Similar to reading People for hard-hitting Brexit coverage.

This is true.

But will say the DailyMail has more quantity of pics (and arguable better quality pics) of an event than the typical US MSM.

We have laws for those that try to cross illegaly, and we have laws for those seeking asylum. We should do our best to follow them and stop demonizing brown people. This is the easiest test for Biden in the world, since it sounds like this group has no intention of trying to sneak over the border after being photographed the whole way there :P

The Daily Mail in the US is mostly stories bought from small local papers. Sometimes they actually have some good info, but some times they have fake sensationalist garbage.

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There is truth in what you say but IMO there is a lot of truth left unsaid re: Trump policies and this forum. I won't bother regurgitating all the points and let's leave it cordially at we'll agree to disagree.

Good to hear they are trying to control their borders. Hard to know how serious Guatemala and Mexico are, guess we'll find out soon enough.

https://abc11.com/migrant-caravan-20...to-us/9751753/

A reasonable response IMO.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...u-won-n1254550

Why is this thread already obsessed with immigration? It's maybe 138th of the problems facing this country. Scapegoating immigrants probably lands at a solid 20th.