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-   -   Official 2008-2009 MLB Offseason Thread (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=68674)

lordscarlet 02-18-2009 08:13 AM

Go Nats! :-P

sterlingice 02-18-2009 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet (Post 1947621)
Go Nats! :-P


They... have a decent ballpark (in a kindof scary part of town)

SI

Philliesfan980 02-18-2009 08:58 AM

Does anyone think baseball in Washington has a long term future?

sterlingice 02-18-2009 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 1947676)
Does anyone think baseball in Washington has a long term future?


I think they're handicapped by the agreement they had to sign with Angelos which allows him to grab a ton of the local money and leaves little for them. However, get a good management team in there and why not (tho I don't know much about the ownership situation)?

The stadium is in a crap hole but they're basically demolishing blocks of the projects that they dropped it in the middle of to put upscale businesses there. We'll see how that works out.

It's a huge metropolitan area with a lot of money around there and no real built in loyalties. It's not as if the Orioles claim all of the DC area for fans. Hell, it seems like there's more transplants than anything- you see a lot of Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers- national teams. But if you give a winning local team to the area, I bet they'll take off.

Tho a local like ls would probably have a better idea

SI

JPhillips 02-18-2009 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980 (Post 1947676)
Does anyone think baseball in Washington has a long term future?


Yes, but not in a Yankees or Red Sox manner. There are so many businesses in the area that will buy tickets/suites that they can be very successful under the right management. They'll never have the die hard fan base of some other teams, as the city's population is too transient overall, but the opportunity to have a big payroll is there.

Of course, IMO, no team is going to do well in the NL East with Bowden at the helm.

lordscarlet 02-18-2009 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1947633)
They... have a decent ballpark (in a kindof scary part of town)

SI


It's not that scary. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1947686)
I think they're handicapped by the agreement they had to sign with Angelos which allows him to grab a ton of the local money and leaves little for them. However, get a good management team in there and why not (tho I don't know much about the ownership situation)?

:shakes fist at Angelos:
Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1947686)
The stadiums in a crap hole but they're basically demolishing blocks of the projects that they dropped it in the middle of to put upscale businesses there. We'll see how that works out.

It's a huge metropolitan area with a lot of money around there and no real built in loyalties. It's not as if the Orioles claim all of the DC area for fans. Hell, it seems like there's more transplants than anything- you see a lot of Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers- national teams. But if you give a winning local team to the area, I bet they'll take off.

Tho a local like ls would probably have a better idea

SI


I'll vaguely expand on the "crap hole" statement. It is in a decent part of town. If it were a little deeper into SE I might agree with you. The worst parts have already been torn down and there's a lot of development going on. Is it the nice part of town? No, absolutely not. But it has a lot of potential. Do I think it will reach the pipe dreams the city has for it in the near future? Unlikely.

I'll just start with my background to give you an idea of the Nationals fanbase. I grew up in a suburb about 25 miles south of DC. I grew up with no local baseball team (Orioles? Give me a break). I grew up a Mattingly/Yankees fan. I moved into DC in 2004 and the Nationals started in 2005. I immediately became a 100% Nationals fan. I even had the excitement of going to two amazing victories over the Yankees (one 9th inning 9(?) run comeback, and a walk-off) in 2006. I became a season ticket holder when the new stadium was built (and still am, in the whopping second year of the stadium).

The transient nature of the area is certainly a problem. However, I know a ton of people that have moved to baseball cities and become fans of the local teams (Chicago, New York, Boston, etc), so it is certainly possible. This city is capable of being fervently behind a team (see: Washington Redskins). However, that requires winning. Until this team gets into the playoffs a few times, and probably into the World Series, it won't be a huge local story.

If you read the local papers, they barely mention the team. It's a side-story. The Redskins trump everything. The Wizards, Capitals, [PG] United and the Nationals are second-rate teams in this city. I would love for that to change, but winning is the only thing that can do it.

This bring us back to the Angelos agreement. If you see the coverage the Nationals get on their regional network (MASN) compared to the Orioles, it is embarassing. Not only is the team handicapped by the fact that Angelos gets most of the profits from the media deal, but he also controls the network that covers the team. This means that the Nationals get second-rate coverage there as well. The games are aired, but that's about it. In the off-season it's all Orioles, on off-days it's all Orioles. It's really rather embarassing. The team was setup to fail, but hopefully it can overcome. In 2005 when the team was in first place at the all-star break people were very excited.

I'm actually amazed at the Nats gear I see around town -- I'm surprised it has caught on as well as it has. There are small things, like the incredibly cheap seats that are available, that need to be advertised better. They need to find a way to connect with the average Joe that is not a huge baseball fan. I don't really know what that requires, probably starts with some quality youth programs. And, of course, yet again, winning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 1947704)
Yes, but not in a Yankees or Red Sox manner. There are so many businesses in the area that will buy tickets/suites that they can be very successful under the right management. They'll never have the die hard fan base of some other teams, as the city's population is too transient overall, but the opportunity to have a big payroll is there.

Of course, IMO, no team is going to do well in the NL East with Bowden at the helm.


Here's the problem -- which they made steps toward correcting this year. A large source of money is contractors entertaining government clients. The problem is the cap on spending ($25) for that sort of thing -- they need good seats below that priceline. They also priced the suites WAY TOO HIGH. If you watch a Nats game, the entire area behind homeplate is a wasteland.

Bowden is clearly creating problems -- I am not a "baseball guy", though, and I can't tell you what he has or hasn't done right. He needs to sign Zimmerman, I know that. He needs to get us some pitchers, I know that. But I largely fell out of baseball fandom from around 1995-2004, and I wasn't that big into it as a kid. Only now am I beginning to really follow it. Having said that, Kasten has a winning pedigree and Bowden to a much lesser degree. Hopefully they can work it out, but more big signings are the way to go. If you want fans, this is a big name era and without those big names people don't care.

We'll see how the future goes, but I sure hope that this incarnation of a Washington baseball franchise is here to stay. The stadium is amazing, the city was robbed of baseball for 30 years and then robbed again by Angelos, and it's a large market. I don't know how all of those factors will play out.

JPhillips 02-18-2009 10:24 AM

Given the number of years he's been a GM, I'm not sure anyone has a worse record of developing pitching than Bowden. The Reds went his entire tenure without developing one good starting pitcher.

sterlingice 02-18-2009 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet (Post 1947784)
I'll vaguely expand on the "crap hole" statement. It is in a decent part of town. If it were a little deeper into SE I might agree with you. The worst parts have already been torn down and there's a lot of development going on. Is it the nice part of town? No, absolutely not. But it has a lot of potential. Do I think it will reach the pipe dreams the city has for it in the near future? Unlikely.


I've only been to Navy Yard once at the end of last year, but my wife and I will definitely be going back this season. I'll be easy to find- the only person wearing the black Royals jersey (either, Sweeney or DeJesus) in the stadium :) Tho, I was considering getting a Nats hat for going to games there. Heck, if other FOFC'ers wanted to get together for a weekend Nats game, I'd be up for it, schedule permitting.

When we went, we somewhat overestimated how much time it took to get there as we hadn't been around DC so it was our first time with the Metro. I wanted to get there about 2 hours early, walk around the stadium, see what's there since all the new downtown stadiums have built up areas, catch some bp, the whole nine yards. In short, we got there about 4 hours early. The path between the Metro and Navy Yard are ok. The area they're building up should be ok. But that's about it.

Across the street from the stadium and that whole area around there- not a huge fan. My wife and I wandered a few blocks up that street, past the liquor store, the run down 7-11 that doesn't even have a bathroom, and, iirc, seedy hotel to the McDonalds with the locks on the bathroom doors. We grabbed some food and headed back quickly to park.

Again, if you're just going Metro to stadium and back- it's fine, perfectly safe. But if you venture outside that area, particularly at night, I'd be a bit worried.

SI

lordscarlet 02-18-2009 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1947830)
I've only been to Navy Yard once at the end of last year, but my wife and I will definitely be going back this season. I'll be easy to find- the only person wearing the black Royals jersey (either, Sweeney or DeJesus) in the stadium :) Tho, I was considering getting a Nats hat for going to games there. Heck, if other FOFC'ers wanted to get together for a weekend Nats game, I'd be up for it, schedule permitting.

When we went, we somewhat overestimated how much time it took to get there as we hadn't been around DC so it was our first time with the Metro. I wanted to get there about 2 hours early, walk around the stadium, see what's there since all the new downtown stadiums have built up areas, catch some bp, the whole nine yards. In short, we got there about 4 hours early. The path between the Metro and Navy Yard are ok. The area they're building up should be ok. But that's about it.

Across the street from the stadium and that whole area around there- not a huge fan. My wife and I wandered a few blocks up that street, past the liquor store, the run down 7-11 that doesn't even have a bathroom, and, iirc, seedy hotel to the McDonalds with the locks on the bathroom doors. We grabbed some food and headed back quickly to park.

Again, if you're just going Metro to stadium and back- it's fine, perfectly safe. But if you venture outside that area, particularly at night, I'd be a bit worried.

SI


No offense, but based on that you would probably think areas near my house are seedy, and it's a nice part of town. :)

I walk two or three blocks from the home plate gates and wait for a bus after games (~11pm) and I can see someone not comfortable with the city feeling nervous, but it's perfectly safe.

I would definitely be up for an FOFC trip to a Nats game.

sterlingice 02-18-2009 11:44 AM

I know, it's not "safe to not be outside bad". But it's "keep your eyes and ears open" bad.

SI

JonInMiddleGA 02-18-2009 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1947844)
But it's "keep your eyes and ears open" bad


Then again, where isn't?

I really can't think of anyplace I go or have been in the past 20 years or so, regardless of size or geography, where I don't think that's reasonable at worst.

JonInMiddleGA 02-18-2009 08:55 PM

The Braves continue to turn into a comedy act, now apparently failing to sign even Junior. A dodged bullet AFAIC but still, it's getting pretty comical to watch at this point.

dawgfan 02-18-2009 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 1948243)
The Braves continue to turn into a comedy act, now apparently failing to sign even Junior. A dodged bullet AFAIC but still, it's getting pretty comical to watch at this point.

Saved from themselves IMO. Anderson would be a better fit, given that he's not nearly as awful in the field as Junior.

I'd actually have preferred that Griffey had signed with Atlanta, as that might've prompted the M's to pursue a trade for Nick Swisher or Nick Johnson. Also, I'm afraid of the backlash from the casual fanbase here if he turns out to be just a shell of what he was when he left (which is rather likely).

At least the story has finally ended and our beat writers can move on to other topics...

Atocep 02-19-2009 11:09 AM

The Nationals are now SHOCKED!!! to find out they were duped.

Leading Nationals prospect from DR faked age, name - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Some quotes from the article:

Quote:

“I’m angry. I’m very angry. We’ve been defrauded,” Kasten said Wednesday. “And make no mistake: This wasn’t a college kid with a fake ID.”
“This was a deliberate, premeditated fraud” that involved bribes, along with falsified hospital and school records, Kasten said.


Quote:

While Kasten said there were “a number of people involved” in the hoax, he would not say whether anyone employed by the Nationals is suspected of playing a role.
“I’m not going to say anything right now while the investigation continues,” Kasten said.
As for the player, Kasten said: “This is a big difference between being a 16-year-old and a 20-year-old. Do I know what his future holds as a baseball player? I don’t. I would say clearly he remains a prospect—but I would say a very different kind of prospect—today. I’m not prepared to say what is going to happen in his career just yet.”


gstelmack 02-19-2009 12:04 PM

They signed a shortstop named Lugo? No wonder they're upset!

Atocep 02-20-2009 02:18 AM

I finally got my copy of Baseball Prospectus 09 today so as far as I'm concerned its baseball season now.

Fighter of Foo 02-20-2009 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 1948306)
Saved from themselves IMO. Anderson would be a better fit, given that he's not nearly as awful in the field as Junior.

I'd actually have preferred that Griffey had signed with Atlanta, as that might've prompted the M's to pursue a trade for Nick Swisher or Nick Johnson. Also, I'm afraid of the backlash from the casual fanbase here if he turns out to be just a shell of what he was when he left (which is rather likely).

At least the story has finally ended and our beat writers can move on to other topics...


He won't be much worse than Ibanez this year. That includes the complete inability to field and hit left handed pitching.

mckerney 02-21-2009 06:40 PM

Twins sign Joe Crede, Bill Smith still loves 3B that are subpar offensively. Though he didn't give away the teams best player for nearly nothing this year, so he's doing better.

Ryche 02-22-2009 01:20 AM

If Crede can stay healthy (big if) a right handed bat with power and a good glove at third can only help, especially for a good price. Crede is much better than Buscher or Harris at least. Sounds like the Twins are making a run at Juan Cruz too, that would be pretty huge if they can get him to be their setup man.

mckerney 02-22-2009 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryche (Post 1950478)
If Crede can stay healthy (big if) a right handed bat with power and a good glove at third can only help, especially for a good price. Crede is much better than Buscher or Harris at least. Sounds like the Twins are making a run at Juan Cruz too, that would be pretty huge if they can get him to be their setup man.


There is the issue of whether or not he can stay healthy, but even when he's been healthy he hasn't been that good. His career OPS+ is 93, and 2006 at 107 is the only full season he's had over 100. He's below average on offense, it's hard to see this as much more than another Mike Lamb, Rondell White, Jeff Cirillo, or Livan Hernandez type addition. He may be better than the crappy options they have at 3B, but not by too much.

Toddzilla 02-22-2009 06:51 AM

The Department of Homeland Security announced that they are moving their HQ to Anacostia, so that means in the vicinity of Nationals Park they are going to raze umpteen city blocks to make way for a giant building. Along with that will be the requisite shops, restaurants, etc. so change is coming to the neighborhood, albeit slowly.

That being said, the Nationals are in the exact same boat as the rest of Major League Baseball: When you have a stupid owner and a moron GM, your team is going to suck. Get some intelligent ownership and a guy or girl running the team that knows baseball, and you've got a shot at a competitive team regardless of finances.

Bad-example 02-22-2009 02:39 PM

From the Chronicle:

Quote:

The way it looks right now, San Jose Giants (Class A) will open the season with Madison Bumgarner, Tim Alderson, Buster Posey, Angel Villalona, Nick Noonan and Conor Gillaspie on their roster.

Big talent influx. I think I am going to see a couple SJ Giants games this year. Check out Mad Bum and get my BBQ on.

Karlifornia 02-22-2009 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad-example (Post 1950698)
From the Chronicle:



Big talent influx. I think I am going to see a couple SJ Giants games this year. Check out Mad Bum and get my BBQ on.


Oh my god....I am so there....5-10 minutes from my house. That collection of players is just awesome.

JonInMiddleGA 02-22-2009 04:27 PM

Braves reportedly have signed Garrett Anderson, 1 yr/$2.5m.

Of course this means that Anderson will shortly be announced as the newest member of another team.

Atocep 02-22-2009 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 1950744)
Braves reportedly have signed Garrett Anderson, 1 yr/$2.5m.

Of course this means that Anderson will shortly be announced as the newest member of another team.


Won't put as many fans in the seats as what could be Griffey's last season would, but he's a better fit in the NL at this point in his career. At least he still plays serviceable defense.

Chief Rum 02-22-2009 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 1950744)
Braves reportedly have signed Garrett Anderson, 1 yr/$2.5m.

Of course this means that Anderson will shortly be announced as the newest member of another team.


An underrated signing, and one the Braves won't regret. His veteran presence in the clubhouse alone, regardless of what he does on the field, will be invaluable. Just don't judge him on his first two months, or on how he "appears" to be playing. He is actually a very quiet, but intense player who is very much a student of the game, and a professional hitter.

Young Drachma 02-22-2009 06:14 PM

I'm laughing at the PG United reference.

Now that's a way to bolster the fan base of the first dynasty in the league...change the team's name. Morons.

Anyway...I had a baseball point to make, but baseball distracted me. Probably a shake fist at the direction of Toronto.

Gonna be another long year.

Crapshoot 02-22-2009 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1950784)
An underrated signing, and one the Braves won't regret. His veteran presence in the clubhouse alone, regardless of what he does on the field, will be invaluable. Just don't judge him on his first two months, or on how he "appears" to be playing. He is actually a very quiet, but intense player who is very much a student of the game, and a professional hitter.


Of course, we're going to disagree - veteran presence is awfully hard to justify. :D .The Braves could have had Abreu at $5M, and instead did this. He had an OPS of .773 against RHP (on the premise that he will platoon with Diaz) and while historically he has been better than that (.799 from 2006-2008), he is 36. But at $2.5M, there's not much to lose of course, and Diaz has been mediocre against RHP in his career.

Chief Rum 02-24-2009 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot (Post 1950807)
Of course, we're going to disagree - veteran presence is awfully hard to justify. :D .The Braves could have had Abreu at $5M, and instead did this. He had an OPS of .773 against RHP (on the premise that he will platoon with Diaz) and while historically he has been better than that (.799 from 2006-2008), he is 36. But at $2.5M, there's not much to lose of course, and Diaz has been mediocre against RHP in his career.


Well...duh. Of course Abreu would have been better. He is a better player, at this stage in their respective careers in particular. Manny's better, too. There were better players to get, both in the past, and now.

But for that price with that production? That's a good pickup at that price. He may not be your type of player, but GA has proven to be as solid and dependable a player for what he does at this stage of his career as anyone.

I wouldn't take him over Abreu. I would take him over Ibanez (or at least it would be a coin flip). I nearly freaked out when there were rumors the Angels were going to go after Ibanez. Fortunately, the Phillies saved us from that grim fate, and removed him from the league, too (so he can't do what he does best, kill us head to head).

Hammer755 02-24-2009 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1951920)
I wouldn't take him over Abreu. I would take him over Ibanez (or at least it would be a coin flip). I nearly freaked out when there were rumors the Angels were going to go after Ibanez. Fortunately, the Phillies saved us from that grim fate, and removed him from the league, too (so he can't do what he does best, kill us head to head).


You had me until Ibanez. I hope you are factoring salary into your opinion because Ibanez is a much better hitter than Anderson. Over the past 4 seasons, Anderson's OPS+ is 100, while Ibanez is sitting at 121. That's a pretty significant difference.

miked 02-24-2009 09:36 AM

Just to correct the bad stats here, in 2006 Matt Diaz hit .295 vs LHP and .358 vs. RHP. In 2007, he hit .356 and .318 vs. LHP and RHP respectively. In 2008, he struggled mightily against RHP (hitting under .200) but only had 150 AB total during the season (compared to 300+ in prior seasons). My point isn't really that he's good...or that he can hit righties with ease. It's that given that last season may have been an anomaly, or that he truly does suck, Garrett Anderson in no way going to help this team win more games. He's a slightly above average hitter who hasn't played a full season with an 800+ OPS since 2003.

Granted he's only 2.5M, but it's like putting a band-aid on a stab wound. He'll provide no real protection for Chipper and the Braves will be struggling to score again.

JPhillips 02-24-2009 10:07 AM

All of that is invalidated because Anderson hustles and plays the game the right way.

Hammer755 02-24-2009 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 1952102)
Just to correct the bad stats here, in 2006 Matt Diaz hit .295 vs LHP and .358 vs. RHP. In 2007, he hit .356 and .318 vs. LHP and RHP respectively. In 2008, he struggled mightily against RHP (hitting under .200) but only had 150 AB total during the season (compared to 300+ in prior seasons). My point isn't really that he's good...or that he can hit righties with ease. It's that given that last season may have been an anomaly, or that he truly does suck, Garrett Anderson in no way going to help this team win more games. He's a slightly above average hitter who hasn't played a full season with an 800+ OPS since 2003.

Granted he's only 2.5M, but it's like putting a band-aid on a stab wound. He'll provide no real protection for Chipper and the Braves will be struggling to score again.


I agree with your greater premise on Anderson, but would side with Crapshoot on Diaz's production vs. righties. While it is true that he has hit over .300 against RHP the past 3 years, it is an extremely empty batting average, with an OBP of .343 and a paltry SLG of .396. I would consider a .739 OPS for a corner outfielder mediocre.

Fighter of Foo 02-24-2009 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1950784)
An underrated signing, and one the Braves won't regret. His veteran presence in the clubhouse alone, regardless of what he does on the field, will be invaluable. Just don't judge him on his first two months, or on how he "appears" to be playing. He is actually a very quiet, but intense player who is very much a student of the game, and a professional hitter.


Sounds like an old guy who sucks. ;)

MikeVic 02-24-2009 02:23 PM

Just sign Otis Nixon to hit in front of Jones, and Julio Franco to his after. I'm sure they'd take "hometown discounts."

Chief Rum 02-25-2009 12:36 AM

Heh...FTR, on straight play, at this point in their careers, yes, Ibanez is a better player, almost entirely because of what he does at the plate. But, yes, I was factoring in salary. Ibanez is ridiculously overpaid.

And as for OPS+, really, anyone throwing that out at me obviously doesn't pay attention to what I post in threads, because I am one of the people that actually acknowledges that baseball players are human beings, not math problems, and what goes on in the field and in the dugout is a lot more than what is simply quanitified.

No, Anderson isn't likely to produce more wins for the Braves, but he won't lose them games either. There were few players left available who could have done that for them (produced more wins). Nor is he going to protect Chipper, anymore than he was really able to protect Vlad. It's a shame the GA that played from 1998-2002 never really got to play with Vlad, because that would have been one terrific middle of the lineup.

ISiddiqui 02-25-2009 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1953062)
And as for OPS+, really, anyone throwing that out at me obviously doesn't pay attention to what I post in threads, because I am one of the people that actually acknowledges that baseball players are human beings, not math problems, and what goes on in the field and in the dugout is a lot more than what is simply quanitified.


Ie, facts are inconvenient? ;)

Ronnie Dobbs2 02-25-2009 08:57 AM

Anderson does have a top ten grit+ and his Clutch Factor has not regressed as he's aged.

miked 02-25-2009 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer755 (Post 1952336)
I agree with your greater premise on Anderson, but would side with Crapshoot on Diaz's production vs. righties. While it is true that he has hit over .300 against RHP the past 3 years, it is an extremely empty batting average, with an OBP of .343 and a paltry SLG of .396. I would consider a .739 OPS for a corner outfielder mediocre.


I agree, which is why calling Anderson an upgrade is silly considering he's likely to put up that very OPS. With all the players that were available on the market this entire offseason, it's laughable that the Braves only pickup was Anderson when they had such huge holes in the lineup. Not that their other targets were formidable...like Furcal. From the Peavey business to the Smoltz business, to the Furcal business, this has been a disaster offseason for the Braves. But hey, they picked up Vazquez...yay!

sterlingice 02-28-2009 06:27 PM

I realize this has nothing to do with Manny, but the Royals signed Juan Cruz to a 2 year deal with an option for a 3rd. They lose their 2nd round pick but a really solid pickup for a reasonable price. He immediately steps into the 8th inning role of getting the ball to Soria. Very much solidifies the bullpen as it moves Farnsworth and Mahay, if not injured, to 6th/7th inning along with Tejada

(Makes the Farnsworth signing even more indefensible)


SI

Galaxy 02-28-2009 10:39 PM

I saw Manny rejected a 2-year/$41.5 million deal, but said he would sign the 2-year/$45 million deal.

Just to make sure I'm correct, but did LA pull that 2-year/$45 million deal off the table (he rejected it, correct?). Then they decided to make him the $41.5 million offer?

Ronnie Dobbs2 02-28-2009 10:40 PM

I think the 41.5 deal you speak of is the 45 deal they offered, although much of the money is deferred. Boras said he'll accept with no deferred money.

Logan 03-01-2009 09:48 AM

I have a bad feeling about this supposed minor shoulder issue Santana is having.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-02-2009 08:32 AM

I'm not sure that people are even going to recognize Kauffman Stadium this year. $250M evidently makes for a lot of improvements. I'm especially happy with the return of General Admission seats (only available on day of game) and the walkway that allow people to walk around the outfield fence. There's a video link on the article webpage if you want to see some of the changes.......

A $250 million renovation makes Kauffman Stadium look like new - Kansas City Star

sterlingice 03-02-2009 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1957396)
I'm not sure that people are even going to recognize Kauffman Stadium this year. $250M evidently makes for a lot of improvements. I'm especially happy with the return of General Admission seats (only available on day of game) and the walkway that allow people to walk around the outfield fence. There's a video link on the article webpage if you want to see some of the changes.......

A $250 million renovation makes Kauffman Stadium look like new - Kansas City Star


Man, I wish I could see it :(

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-02-2009 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1957417)
Man, I wish I could see it :(

SI


If you check out the PastaPadre screenshots in The Show thread, one of the pictures shows the new GA seats in the game. They're right in front of the fountains in left field and are literally right at the fence. Those are some nice seats for $7. I'm sure they'll be very popular.

Bad-example 03-02-2009 02:51 PM

Headline: Dodgers prospect DeJesus suffers broken leg.

Reaction: Well, as long as he's suffering. ;)

DanGarion 03-09-2009 10:42 AM

This is as good a thread as any. So today is the deadline for Keepers in my long term fantasy league. 12 Teams, Both Leagues. 17 Keepers, 27 man roster. Prospects are extremely coveted. As you can see my team isn't that good, I joined back into this league last year and had to take over a team that was hideous, but it's slowly becoming a better team. I'm really good at locating pitching talent through the year to help my team be in the top 4 of pitching, but my hitting was atrocious! Still my hitting is actually a lot better then what I started with. Here is what I have, and who I'm keeping so far. If anyone would like to provide some feedback my ears are open and I'd appreciate some third party suggestions. (My picks so far for Keepers in Bold -13 out of 17)

Adrian Gonzalez SD 1B

Victor Martinez Cle C,1B
Orlando Cabrera CWS SS
Jeff Francoeur Atl OF
Dustin Pedroia Bos 2B
Ryan Zimmerman Was 3B
Brad Hawpe Col OF
Mike Jacobs KC 1B
Andre Ethier LAD OF
Adam Jones Bal OF
Shin-Soo Choo Cle OF
Marco Scutaro Tor 2B,3B,SS,OF
Aaron Cunningham Oak OF
Chase Headley SD 3B,OF
Matt Joyce Det OF

Brandon Webb Ari SP
Brad Lidge Phi RP
B.J. Ryan Tor RP
Adam Wainwright StL SP
Derek Lowe LAD SP
Armando Galarraga Det SP
Scott Lewis Cle SP
Kyle Lohse StL SP
Jorge Campillo Atl SP,RP
Zach Miner Det SP,RP
Dallas Braden Oak SP,RP
Glen Perkins Min SP,RP

Here are my thoughts, I have the first pick of the draft so I could very well get Matt Wieters who is the best available prospect and then either ride him out till he dominates or trade him away for a pretty penny. I'm on the fence with Martinez since he was a bust last season, and Francoeur even though he's still so young I traded for him last year (huge trade that involved David Wright) and that hurt. Matt Joyce was a big pick up for me late in the season but now I'm hearing he's go tendinitis in his leg... As for pitching, I'm pretty set with the 5, but I could end up keeping some more of the "talent" I have, but nothing really stands out.

Lathum 03-09-2009 10:47 AM

I think you have to protect MArtinez. Still young and the upsode is huge with him

DanGarion 03-09-2009 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1964275)
I think you have to protect MArtinez. Still young and the upsode is huge with him


31 is young for a catcher? ;)

My issue with him, is that I haven't really gotten many updates on how he's doing during the spring yet.

Ronnie Dobbs2 03-09-2009 10:51 AM

He's thirty - the upsode is probably already been passed.

Lathum 03-09-2009 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2 (Post 1964278)
He's thirty - the upsode is probably already been passed.


at some point they will move him to DH. He still has some good years left

Ronnie Dobbs2 03-09-2009 10:53 AM

I really like Joyce (this issue notwithstanding) and would have to consider keeping him, probably over Jacobs.

EDIT: Just realized you have keepers left, so scratch that about Jacobs.

JonInMiddleGA 03-09-2009 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic (Post 1952581)
Just sign Otis Nixon to hit in front of Jones, and Julio Franco to his after. I'm sure they'd take "hometown discounts."


My dad ran into Nixon at a Ryan's a couple of weeks ago. Said he very nice & graciously signed an autograph for my old man. Kind of sad though, Dad said he seemed to be the only person in the place that recognized him.

sterlingice 03-09-2009 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanGarion
...big keeper league...

Seriously 17 keepers? That's nuts. Your draft must suck hard every year and you could easily have built a dynasty if you got good (and lucky) in the first draft.

Is there a penalty to protecting the full 17? Like- do you lose draft picks if you protect more than a certain number? And is there any system like "you can only hold a player for X years"?

Adam Jones really stands out to me- you have to protect him. Considering how young and how much potential he has, I don't see why you wouldn't. Same with Joyce, too. Those two are must keep if you have that many keepers. I'd probably rate them above Choo and Headley, personally, who you have as set in stone keepers.

I don't see why you wouldn't keep Ryan as he fills a need for this year, unless you don't need 2 closers. He should be a solid guy for at least a couple more years.

And, I guess if I had to pick a 4th, it'd be beteween Francouer for possible upside or Martinez or Cabrera as they fill a need for this year, leaning towards Martinez as I think he'll have a better year relative to the position this year.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily hang on hard to Jacobs- he has power and hurts you everywhere else. If you need another spot to keep another player, this would be it. You already have a much better version of him in Adrian Gonzalez with a high power, low average guy who is a lot better at it.

SI

DanGarion 03-09-2009 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2 (Post 1964280)
I really like Joyce (this issue notwithstanding) and would have to consider keeping him, probably over Jacobs.

EDIT: Just realized you have keepers left, so scratch that about Jacobs.


Yeah I wouldn't probably do that same switch if I didn't have some keepers left, Jacbos is a Rob Deer type player with just a bit more average... I really like Joyce and I'm very intrigued to see what he does in Tampa after what I saw from him last year.

DanGarion 03-09-2009 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1964283)
Seriously 17 keepers? That's nuts. Your draft must suck hard every year and you could easily have built a dynasty if you got good (and lucky) in the first draft.

Is there a penalty to protecting the full 17? Like- do you lose draft picks if you protect more than a certain number? And is there any system like "you can only hold a player for X years"?

Adam Jones really stands out to me- you have to protect him. Considering how young and how much potential he has, I don't see why you wouldn't. Same with Joyce, too. Those two are must keep if you have that many keepers. I'd probably rate them above Choo and Headley, personally, who you have as set in stone keepers.

I don't see why you wouldn't keep Ryan as he fills a need for this year, unless you don't need 2 closers.

And, I guess if I had to pick a 4th, it'd be beteween Francouer for possible upside or Martinez or Cabrera as they fill a need for this year, leaning towards Martinez as I think he'll have a better year relative to the position this year.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily hang on hard to Jacobs- he has power and hurts you everywhere else. If you need another spot to keep another player, this would be it. You already have a much better version of him in Adrian Gonzalez with a high power, low average guy who is a lot better at it.

SI


No there aren't any special rules on the keepers, just a straight 17. My bubble guys are pretty much all the ones you mentioned (Jones, Joyce, Jacobs, Martinez, Ryan). Since we play 1B, 3B, CI, I don't really need Jacobs except for fill in (depending on if I carry another catcher and my OF depth).

sterlingice 03-09-2009 11:03 AM

If it were my keeper list, it'd look like this:
bold- set in stone (14)
italics- consider

Adrian Gonzalez SD 1B
Victor Martinez Cle C,1B
Orlando Cabrera CWS SS
Jeff Francoeur Atl OF

Dustin Pedroia Bos 2B
Ryan Zimmerman Was 3B
Brad Hawpe Col OF

Mike Jacobs KC 1B
Andre Ethier LAD OF
Adam Jones Bal OF

Shin-Soo Choo Cle OF
Marco Scutaro Tor 2B,3B,SS,OF
Aaron Cunningham Oak OF
Chase Headley SD 3B,OF
Matt Joyce Det OF

Brandon Webb Ari SP
Brad Lidge Phi RP
B.J. Ryan Tor RP
Adam Wainwright StL SP
Derek Lowe LAD SP
Armando Galarraga Det SP

Scott Lewis Cle SP
Kyle Lohse StL SP
Jorge Campillo Atl SP,RP
Zach Miner Det SP,RP
Dallas Braden Oak SP,RP - don't know much about
Glen Perkins Min SP,RP

SI

sterlingice 03-09-2009 11:06 AM

Don't make the keeper league mistake of dropping good production for potential production that might be as good or slightly better. You can always work the waiver wire and, who knows, you might actually have some good seasons from guys you don't expect and actually be in contention if you don't go full "youth movement". Sure, the league may have existed for a few years, but you never know when it's going to disappear.

SI

Ramzavail 03-09-2009 11:12 AM

Definitely keep Shin-Soo Choo, Victor Martinez, Adam Jones.

I'd keep Matt Joyce, Frenchy and even Orlando Cabrera, even thought he's probably on his downturn. Odds are you won't be able to find a better SS out there, they will all be kept.

Ramzavail 03-09-2009 11:13 AM

dola - case in point, Cabrera was just picked in the 14th round of our hardcore league.

Fighter of Foo 03-09-2009 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramzavail (Post 1964304)
Definitely keep Shin-Soo Choo, Victor Martinez, Adam Jones.

I'd keep Matt Joyce, Frenchy and even Orlando Cabrera, even thought he's probably on his downturn. Odds are you won't be able to find a better SS out there, they will all be kept.


That's great but who do you drop instead? Joyce is a part timer, Frenchy sucks and Cabrera isn't particularly good at anything besides fielding.

DanGarion 03-09-2009 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo (Post 1964324)
That's great but who do you drop instead? Joyce is a part timer, Frenchy sucks and Cabrera isn't particularly good at anything besides fielding.

Well we don't know exactly what they are going to do with Joyce. Carbrera does steal 15+ though... which if you look at my team I basically just throw the steal category away.

Fighter of Foo 03-09-2009 11:56 AM

Joyce can't hit lefties, so thats a max of 450 PAs. Burrell is the DH so he can't go there, so you're looking at something like 300-350 PAs unless someone like Crawford gets hurt or Joyce completely and totally hits the snot out of the ball the first month.

I'm fairly convinced his performance last year in DET is at/near his peak.

Ronnie Dobbs2 03-09-2009 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo (Post 1964359)
Joyce can't hit lefties, so thats a max of 450 PAs. Burrell is the DH so he can't go there, so you're looking at something like 300-350 PAs unless someone like Crawford gets hurt or Joyce completely and totally hits the snot out of the ball the first month.

I'm fairly convinced his performance last year in DET is at/near his peak.


How can you be convinced of that? He had an OPS+ of 116 as a 23 year old rookie. I'm curious how you can be sure that's his ceiling and that he couldn't go higher.

ISiddiqui 03-09-2009 12:33 PM

Yeah, it seems Joyce has a great future ahead of him. Saying he's hit is ceiling goes against what most scouts have said.

Fighter of Foo 03-09-2009 12:41 PM

Too many strikeouts.

ISiddiqui 03-09-2009 12:50 PM

'Cause that's killed Adam Dunn's career ;).

As he gets older, he'll be able to develop more patience.

Fighter of Foo 03-09-2009 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 1964405)
'Cause that's killed Adam Dunn's career ;).

As he gets older, he'll be able to develop more patience.


Dunn and Howard were awesome in the minors. Dunn also walks a lot.

Joyce wasn't and doesn't.

Ramzavail 03-09-2009 01:02 PM

why does he have to drop anybody, he bolded 13 guys and he can keep 17.

Take his 13
+ Martinez
+ Jones
+ Cabrera
+ Joyce

I was going to say toss up between Frenchy and Cabrera, but you already would have 5 OFs. When Adam Jones goes 20-20 this year, you won't care about Frenchy.

ISiddiqui 03-09-2009 01:03 PM

Last year in AAA, Joyce was plenty good, especially in lowering his K totals.

DanGarion 03-09-2009 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 1964423)
Last year in AAA, Joyce was plenty good, especially in lowering his K totals.


He's only got 1 full season in the minors, and was good enough last year to get brought up only 56 games into his second season... Must have done something right.

Ramzavail 03-09-2009 01:08 PM

he had more than that

hxxp://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/J/Matt-Joyce.shtml

DanGarion 03-09-2009 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramzavail (Post 1964434)
he had more than that

hxxp://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/J/Matt-Joyce.shtml


Hah, that's what I get for looking at Rotowire, when while I was typing that I was thinking I should verify my numbers with Baseball Cube.

Chief Rum 03-09-2009 11:11 PM

Don't know that I can speak too much for the keeper list, but I highly recommend finding more pitching. You don't seem to have much quality there.

Big Fo 03-31-2009 08:46 AM

Chipper Jones signed a contract extension that will keep the future Hall of Famer in Atlanta through the end of the 2012 season. Seeing him walk a year after Smoltz left would have been rough.

JonInMiddleGA 03-31-2009 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Fo (Post 1981012)
Seeing him walk a year after Smoltz left would have been rough.


I'll be surprised if he's still able to walk by 2012.

Ronnie Dobbs2 03-31-2009 08:52 AM

Sheffield released by Tigers.

Tigers release Sheffield - MLB - Yahoo! Sports

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-31-2009 08:55 AM

Here comes the universal optimism of spring training.

The Royals are 1st in homeruns and second in runs scored thus far in spring training. I have no idea if it will last, but it's looking good early on.

Jacobs and Teahan on the right side of the infield have both been outstanding in spring training. Teahan is batting .500 thus far with 5 homeruns in only 42 at-bats, which would provide a substantial offensive boost at 2nd base. Jacobs has several homeruns and is ***gasp*** drawing walks! Both of them credit new hitting coach Kevin Seitzer with their improved offense.

If the pitching can perform even at an average level, Royals fans might have something to look forward to.

Ronnie Dobbs2 03-31-2009 09:01 AM

Royals looking good in preseason.

/first

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-31-2009 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2 (Post 1981034)
Royals looking good in preseason.

/first


Never were truer words spoken.

Big Fo 03-31-2009 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2 (Post 1981020)


I wonder who he'll hit his 500th HR (he's at 499) with. He was terrible last year and might be finished as an effective player.

sterlingice 03-31-2009 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2 (Post 1981020)


They still owe a bunch on his contract, don't they? Like $15M?

(EDIT: I guess the article says $14M)

How badly must he have fallen that he was worth eating that money? And anyone who has seen him this spring, is he worth picking up for any team?

SI

DeToxRox 03-31-2009 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1981121)
They still owe a bunch on his contract, don't they? Like $15M?

(EDIT: I guess the article says $14M)

How badly must he have fallen that he was worth eating that money? And anyone who has seen him this spring, is he worth picking up for any team?

SI


He hit .178 and just looked a step slow. With that vicious swing of his timing is everything and it's just not there. I've always loved Sheff but this was the right move. I can see him maybe heading to Texas to play some DH but I can't see any NL team taking a shot at him.

Ksyrup 03-31-2009 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 1981131)
He hit .178 and just looked a step slow. With that vicious swing of his timing is everything and it's just not there. I've always loved Sheff but this was the right move. I can see him maybe heading to Texas to play some DH but I can't see any NL team taking a shot at him.


Yeah, the team with 5 OFers and Andruw Jones needs to add Sheffield to that mix!

DeToxRox 03-31-2009 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1981135)
Yeah, the team with 5 OFers and Andruw Jones needs to add Sheffield to that mix!


Heh touche. That was the first team that came to mind. Honestly, I have no idea who'd take a chance on him.

sterlingice 03-31-2009 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1981023)
Here comes the universal optimism of spring training.

The Royals are 1st in homeruns and second in runs scored thus far in spring training. I have no idea if it will last, but it's looking good early on.

Jacobs and Teahan on the right side of the infield have both been outstanding in spring training. Teahan is batting .500 thus far with 5 homeruns in only 42 at-bats, which would provide a substantial offensive boost at 2nd base. Jacobs has several homeruns and is ***gasp*** drawing walks! Both of them credit new hitting coach Kevin Seitzer with their improved offense.

If the pitching can perform even at an average level, Royals fans might have something to look forward to.


Yeah, I'm going to believe it when they can do it against something other than AA and AAA pitchers in a real pressure situation.

To, wit, here's a conversation via text a couple of days ago:

me: Royals on mlb network- who would have guessed
me: And as I turn it on, tony pena jr 2 run homer to make it 11-10
him: You don't have to lie to make friends, you and your fancy MLB network
(he doesn't have mlbnetwork so I taunt him about it from time to time)
me: Well, you can see it here in July
(he's visiting here in July for our east coast baseball trip)
him: MLB network, maybe. But TJ hitting a go-ahead homer? Not again in my lifetime

SI

RedKingGold 03-31-2009 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1981121)
They still owe a bunch on his contract, don't they? Like $15M?

(EDIT: I guess the article says $14M)

How badly must he have fallen that he was worth eating that money? And anyone who has seen him this spring, is he worth picking up for any team?

SI


Player over 36 w/o roids = overpaid at any amount in this market.

Ksyrup 03-31-2009 11:43 AM

So the White Sox have handed CF and lead-off to freakin' Dewayne Wise and the Reds did the same with Willy Tavarez. How is that I'm sitting here in my office and not running an MLB team, while the fucktards making decisions for these two teams are allowed to keep theirs? I thought Walt Jocketty had a brain...?

I guess a year of Dusty Baker's "clogging the bases" speeches finally wore him down. And Dewayne Wise...sheesh. DEWAYNE WISE!!

DeToxRox 03-31-2009 11:47 AM

Sheff wants to go to the Rays, which isn't shocking since he lives in Tampa. Not sure how that'd work.

sterlingice 03-31-2009 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1981187)
So the White Sox have handed CF and lead-off to freakin' Dewayne Wise and the Reds did the same with Willy Tavarez. How is that I'm sitting here in my office and not running an MLB team, while the fucktards making decisions for these two teams are allowed to keep theirs? I thought Walt Jocketty had a brain...?

I guess a year of Dusty Baker's "clogging the bases" speeches finally wore him down. And Dewayne Wise...sheesh. DEWAYNE WISE!!


Yes!

That's for my fantasy team with Taveras- no real fan could be happy with that decision. Then again the Royals are going to make Coco Crisp the leadoff hitter when I think DDJ is much better suited. Rany makes a great argument for DDJ hitting 3rd in his latest RanyontheRoyals but DDJ approaches at bats differently when he's hitting 3rd than 1st- he doesn't work the count nearly as much and tries to swing for more power.

SI

DeToxRox 03-31-2009 11:54 AM

I wish Curtis Granderson could bat 3rd for the Tigs. He has 25 - 30 HR pop and would be a 100 RBI guy but we are not afforded that luxury, but when you have no speed outside Grandy, options are limited.

Butter 03-31-2009 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1981187)
So the White Sox have handed CF and lead-off to freakin' Dewayne Wise and the Reds did the same with Willy Tavarez. How is that I'm sitting here in my office and not running an MLB team, while the fucktards making decisions for these two teams are allowed to keep theirs? I thought Walt Jocketty had a brain...?

I guess a year of Dusty Baker's "clogging the bases" speeches finally wore him down. And Dewayne Wise...sheesh. DEWAYNE WISE!!


The Reds spent much of last year with Corey Patterson in center field. Patterson hit under .200 most of the year.

This is a step up.

sterlingice 03-31-2009 12:34 PM

This is just sad. I went to the Nats site and they still have tickets available for Opening Day

SI

JPhillips 03-31-2009 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1981187)
So the White Sox have handed CF and lead-off to freakin' Dewayne Wise and the Reds did the same with Willy Tavarez. How is that I'm sitting here in my office and not running an MLB team, while the fucktards making decisions for these two teams are allowed to keep theirs? I thought Walt Jocketty had a brain...?

I guess a year of Dusty Baker's "clogging the bases" speeches finally wore him down. And Dewayne Wise...sheesh. DEWAYNE WISE!!


At least they just sent Jaque Jones to the minors. Late last week I really thought the Reds would start the season with Tavarez batting 1st and Jones batting second. With Phillips batting fourth there would be no possibility of clogging the bases.

Ksyrup 03-31-2009 01:06 PM

Was Jones the guy I saw was 4-for-45 this spring? Ouch.

lordscarlet 03-31-2009 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1981241)
This is just sad. I went to the Nats site and they still have tickets available for Opening Day

SI


The Nats have only had 2 sellouts: The very first home opener and the new stadium home opener. They may sellout for the Red Sox games this year as well. I don't think people should be very surprised -- they're a team that was stripped of all talent a, management, money, and support by MLB and then plopped into the city hampered by Peter Angelos. The buzz they get on even their own network is laughable.

DeToxRox 03-31-2009 01:23 PM

Rick Porcello may've just pitched his way into the Tigers rotation with a solid 5 innings (so far). He is in the mix and with Bonderman and Robertson hurt, and Dontrelle already on the DL there are two open spots. Kid is gonna be a good one but he's only 20. I hope he gets a few starts and when Bondo and Nate are healthy he is able to go back to the Minors for a while.

DaddyTorgo 03-31-2009 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordscarlet (Post 1981338)
The Nats have only had 2 sellouts: The very first home opener and the new stadium home opener. They may sellout for the Red Sox games this year as well. I don't think people should be very surprised -- they're a team that was stripped of all talent a, management, money, and support by MLB and then plopped into the city hampered by Peter Angelos. The buzz they get on even their own network is laughable.


maybe i'll head down for those...

JPhillips 03-31-2009 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 1981301)
Was Jones the guy I saw was 4-for-45 this spring? Ouch.


Yeah. Dusty was telling reporters it was unfair to compare him to Patterson. I don't think he realized it was unfair to Patterson.

The Reds will likely be a very bad offensive team this year. Look at CHONE predictions for obp and slg for the top eight:

Joey Votto .365 .494
Edwin Encarnacion .360 .485
Jay Bruce .334 .509
Ramon Hernandez .332 .435
Brandon Phillips .325 .455
Chris Dickerson .330 .419
Alex Gonzalez .312 .410
Willy Taveras .328 .341
2008 League avg .344 .434

That's bad enough, but now look at how Dusty will use them:

Willy Taveras .328 .341
Alex Gonzalez .312 .410
Joey Votto .365 .494
Brandon Phillips .325 .455
Jay Bruce .334 .509
Edwin Encarnacion .360 .485
Chris Dickerson .330 .419
Ramon Hernandez .332 .435

The three lowest obps will bat in the top four. :(


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