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RainMaker 03-07-2009 05:25 PM

Radford is in the tourney. Could give a 2 seed some trouble with their big Center.

Dr. Sak 03-07-2009 05:26 PM

God damn Iowa not only ruins the football season but now basketball. Rot in hell Hawkeyes!!

sooner333 03-07-2009 05:42 PM

Funny that today's events will set up two potential rematches on Thursday of the Big XII...Texas A&M-Missouri and Oklahoma-Oklahoma St. Baylor-Nebraska will play again on Wednesday.

Radii 03-07-2009 05:57 PM

Maryland's NCAA hopes are likely dashed as they lose to a poor Virginia team to close out the regular season. Anything less than a run to the ACC champioship game and there is no way they get in IMO.

Boston College is presumably in but they are limping in in unimpressive fashion, losing to NC State and now needing a shot in the final seconds to beat a very bad Georgia Tech team at home.


And in other ACC news, Nolan Smith is out for Duke against Carolina tomorrow, Zoubek has a broken nose but will play, and Lance Thomas is questionable. For Carolina, Ty Lawson left practice using a crutch on Friday and it isn't clear whether he'll play.

Karlifornia 03-07-2009 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1963347)
Zoubek has a broken nose but will play,



I hear the doctors that gave him the go ahead went to Carolina.

Lathum 03-07-2009 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 1963325)
Radford is in the tourney. Could give a 2 seed some trouble with their big Center.


I have no knowledge other then what I watched today, but it seems VMI's style and complete lack of rebounding or size made him look better then he is.

dawgfan 03-07-2009 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1963285)
The ball is in Washington's court. Beat your rival, win the conference outright. Lose, only get a share of the title AND you lose the #1 seed in the Pac 10 tourney.

Go Cougars!

This UW squad keeps proving their mettle. They are talented, but more importantly they are mentally tough and play good team basketball.

Props to the Bruins and their immense talent and three consecutive Final Four appearances, but this season the conference belongs to Washington!

MizzouRah 03-07-2009 08:34 PM

Unreal...

sooner333 03-07-2009 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah (Post 1963421)
Unreal...


Come on...you couldn't see this coming? Big win over a top 5 team on senior night followed by a road game against a team that is pretty hot. You had to at least see it coming.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-07-2009 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 1963280)
Nice showing by the Tigers again today.


Agreed. They were down by 24 around halftime and cut it to six with 3 minutes left. Pretty well done considering most would have given up.

Illinois fans have little to discuss when they're putting up sub-40 point games on their own court.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-07-2009 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sooner333 (Post 1963474)
Come on...you couldn't see this coming? Big win over a top 5 team on senior night followed by a road game against a team that is pretty hot. You had to at least see it coming.


Agreed. I expected MU to lose today. It was a brutal situation as you noted.

I noticed that Mizzou plays the winner of the A&M/Tech matchup in the second round. Given what occurred today, I'm guessing that A&M couldn't have had a worse draw if they tried. Playing a pressing MU team with a bye a day after having to play Tech. Toss in the revenge factor after today's game and it's going to be an awfully tough task for A&M.

Swaggs 03-07-2009 11:35 PM

Louisville plays insane, full court defense. I cannot believe they shot as well, from three, as they did tonight and we still had a shot to tie at the final second.

Some pretty questionable calls did not help, either. I usually don't complain on the refs, but they called a pretty iffy foul 17-feet from the basket after we played some great D for 30+ seconds w/ less than a minute less. And, the first foul of the game, they inexplicably gave UofL two shots despite the Cards player not attempting a shot.

Oh well, at least our loss prevented Pitt from winning the Big East. :)

hoopsguy 03-08-2009 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1963491)
Agreed. They were down by 24 around halftime and cut it to six with 3 minutes left. Pretty well done considering most would have given up.

Illinois fans have little to discuss when they're putting up sub-40 point games on their own court.


Given up like you did against Kansas the week before?

I'm not going to argue that it is fun watching a team score 33 (on their home court) but that game was a five point loss. Mizzou lost by more than that today ... heck, you are pleased about cutting a lead to 6 in the second half. Bravo!

It is pretty cute listening to Mizzou fans talk smack when Illini have rolled over them eight straight years.

Chief Rum 03-08-2009 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 1963410)
This UW squad keeps proving their mettle. They are talented, but more importantly they are mentally tough and play good team basketball.

Props to the Bruins and their immense talent and three consecutive Final Four appearances, but this season the conference belongs to Washington!


Yup, major props to your Huskies, dawgfan. It's a very good team that I think even now is underrated. Assuming at least a run to the semifinals and UW will lock up the #4 seed in the West, with a chance to grab the #3 if they get to the final or win the conference tourney.

Meanwhile, deserved or not, I am calling it now--UCLA will be shipped to either the Midwest or the South. They will, by record, probably deserve a 5, but somehow end up with a 4. Regardless, they will be in line to meet a top seed in the Sweet 16. And whatever bracket they are in will be named the "toughest looking bracket" by a lot of people prior to the start of the tourney, just because it's UCLA.

What does all that mean? Jack squat, of course. The boys have to come to play. That said, I am satisfied that the talent is still here, and so is the senior leadership ability. They're built for a run--if they act like how they look.

Here's a quote from Howland the other day, after being asked why his team is streaky: "We're not streaky. We just don't play good all the time." lol

Even funnier, is that Howland's not funny. Ever. This was a typical chippy response from him.

Karlifornia 03-08-2009 05:50 AM

UCLA is an elite 8 team, and could shockingly make the final four. They will beat somebody they weren't "supposed to".

Washington is a three seed, whereas UCLA is a 4, but I think Washington reeks of sweet 16. I hope U-Dub and UCLA both make the final four, but I would bet my money on UCLA to make it farther. Experienced, talented point guards are very important, and UCLA has that is both, where are Washington has one with half the formula.

Just a guess.

WSUCougar 03-08-2009 10:22 AM

Congrats to the Dawgs on cutting down the Pac-10 nets. The game was a real battle but the better team won. Good luck here on out.

JonInMiddleGA 03-08-2009 01:12 PM

Alabama sends Tennessee to another loss, 70-67, with a running buzzer beating three. Vols failed to appear for the first half, again put themselves in a situation that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

What's becoming very disturbing is the appearance that Pearl can coach other people's players reasonably well, can market the hell out of himself & a program by extension, and recruit athletes with good resumes but can't recruit actual basketball players.

timmynausea 03-08-2009 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1963503)
Louisville plays insane, full court defense. I cannot believe they shot as well, from three, as they did tonight and we still had a shot to tie at the final second.

Some pretty questionable calls did not help, either. I usually don't complain on the refs, but they called a pretty iffy foul 17-feet from the basket after we played some great D for 30+ seconds w/ less than a minute less. And, the first foul of the game, they inexplicably gave UofL two shots despite the Cards player not attempting a shot.

Oh well, at least our loss prevented Pitt from winning the Big East. :)


It was disappointing, but I actually don't feel too bad about that one. WVU had a lot of things working against them (Ruoff and Butler continue slumping and Louisville lighting it up from 3) and still almost beat one of the best teams in the country. It just seemed to me like the kind of close loss that will make WVU hungry going into tournament time. Also the way Ebanks and Jones are peaking at just the right time (they combined for 35 points, 18 rebounds and 8 assists last night) reminds me a lot of the way Joe Alexander turned dominant at exactly this time last year.

Swaggs 03-08-2009 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmynausea (Post 1963707)
It was disappointing, but I actually don't feel too bad about that one. WVU had a lot of things working against them (Ruoff and Butler continue slumping and Louisville lighting it up from 3) and still almost beat one of the best teams in the country. It just seemed to me like the kind of close loss that will make WVU hungry going into tournament time. Also the way Ebanks and Jones are peaking at just the right time (they combined for 35 points, 18 rebounds and 8 assists last night) reminds me a lot of the way Joe Alexander turned dominant at exactly this time last year.


Agreed. I'm not really too disappointed -- was just getting greedy, thinking we might be able to sneak up to a 5 or 4 seed with a win over Louisville and a couple of BE tourney wins. Hopefully, one of Butler or Ruoff (or ideally both) will get hot these next few weeks.

Jones has had a great shot all year -- I'm really impressed with him and Ebanks, although he always looks to be bordering on out of control, is far more skilled than I had expected or first thought. I wish we had the personnel to play Ebanks at the 3 and Jones at the 4. I cannot imagine that there are too many freshmen classes as productive and under the radar as ours this season. I think Ebanks will almost certainly be an NBA player (hopefully he sticks around for 3 or 4 years) and I can see Jones, with his shooting ability and length, being a productive bench guy in the NBA, as well.

Interesting thought on Alexander. I'd love to see Ebanks float around the free throw line hitting those short jumpers and drawing in defenses like Alexander started doing towards the end of last year. Unfortunately, it seems like he likes having the ball in his hands and doesn't move as well without it (on his radio show, Huggins was joking about it and said that Devin takes "great pleasure in dribbling the ball. :) ).

DeToxRox 03-08-2009 03:18 PM

So how many teams does the Big 10 get this year? Looks like 7 or 8. The BTT will be intense that's for sure.

Swaggs 03-08-2009 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 1963742)
So how many teams does the Big 10 get this year? Looks like 7 or 8. The BTT will be intense that's for sure.


I think that 7 are easily in. Minny and Michigan are a bit bubblish, but I think they are fairly safe, as they likely won't have the chance to lose to a bad team (it would be pretty hard for them to play Iowa or Indiana in the B10 tourney). I think Penn State and Northwestern will each have to win two games in the B10 tourney (and NW needs to win today).

In any case, I think they have seven teams with bids locked up, regardless of whatever else may happen.

Radii 03-08-2009 05:11 PM

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Swaggs 03-08-2009 05:12 PM

Lord, I hate Singler.

Good job, Tarheels.

hoopsguy 03-08-2009 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1963796)
Lord, I hate Singler.

Good job, Tarheels.


Funny, I was thinking the same thing about Hansborough as he flopped around in the second half on defense while bowling people over on the other end. I'm far from a UNC hater, but I'm looking forward to that guy having to play with an "even" whistle at the next level.

Dr. Sak 03-08-2009 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 1963830)
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about Hansborough as he flopped around in the second half on defense while bowling people over on the other end. I'm far from a UNC hater, but I'm looking forward to that guy having to play with an "even" whistle at the next level.


He always has that stupid bug eyed look and when he gets called for a foul he always looks around like "who me".

Noop 03-08-2009 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 1963830)
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about Hansborough as he flopped around in the second half on defense while bowling people over on the other end. I'm far from a UNC hater, but I'm looking forward to that guy having to play with an "even" whistle at the next level.


:+1:

He reminds me of Tebow....

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-08-2009 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 1963539)
It is pretty cute listening to Mizzou fans talk smack when Illini have rolled over them eight straight years.


Agreed. It's unfortunate that Mizzou laid an egg against an average program like Illinois in an average conference. It's obviously an embarrassing loss.

Wolfpack 03-08-2009 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1963796)
Lord, I hate Singler.

Good job, Tarheels.


I say it's still a shame that something can't happen that causes the game to be canceled and result in a richly deserved 0-0 tie. :D

Anyway, on to Atlanta for the ACC tournament and strangely enough, the bracket sets up for yet another wacky State run to the championship like a couple of years ago. We can beat Maryland (if we remember to guard Vasquez) and we have beaten Wake. If we get lucky and BC can upset Duke on Friday, we have a shot.

Of course this means we'll get blown out by Maryland on Thursday, but I can dream... :D

dawgfan 03-08-2009 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar (Post 1963586)
Congrats to the Dawgs on cutting down the Pac-10 nets. The game was a real battle but the better team won. Good luck here on out.

Thanks. The Cougs are going to be a dangerous team to face in the Pac-10 tournament - I'm glad the UW doesn't have to face them in their first game...

Groundhog 03-08-2009 11:14 PM

Patty Mills coming off the bench for St. Mary's today in their conference tourney matchup against Portland. I think he's going to be too rusty to give a major boost to the Gaels, but I'm hoping they at least make it to the finals against Gonzaga and keep it close.

GoldenEagle 03-09-2009 07:23 AM

Memphis got a commit yesterday from DeMarcus Cousins. If we sign John Wall, then we will have signed the #1, #2, and #3 players out of the rivals Top 150.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-09-2009 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle (Post 1964145)
Memphis got a commit yesterday from DeMarcus Cousins. If we sign John Wall, then we will have signed the #1, #2, and #3 players out of the rivals Top 150.


Knowing quite a bit about Cousins and the situations surrounding his recruitment, I'm not sure that getting him is best for your (or any team's) program. While he's obviously very talented, there are some pretty shady dealing littering his recruitment that could come back to bite the program. I know Mizzou decided to steer clear of him for that very reason.

Groundhog 03-09-2009 06:03 PM

So, Davidson. They lose in their conference tourney semi-finals. Do they make it to the tournament with an at-large? Probably not - not this year, anyway, with so many of the big conferences expected to receive multiple at-large invites.

Davidson has an rpi of 69. They have few quality wins and, despite a fairly solid in-conference performance, they lost in the semis of the tournament (second time Charleston had beaten them this season). I just don't see them getting in, which is a shame. I'd rather watch Curry lighting teams up than, say, the 6th best team in the ACC.

RainMaker 03-09-2009 06:36 PM

Davidson has no shot of getting in. Would be interesting to see if Curry stays another year. I'd have to imagine he'll be a lottery pick if he comes out. Another year though at PG could help him a lot. Then again, an injury or another non-appearance in the NCAA and it could hurt.

Fighter of Foo 03-09-2009 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1963750)
I think that 7 are easily in. Minny and Michigan are a bit bubblish, but I think they are fairly safe, as they likely won't have the chance to lose to a bad team (it would be pretty hard for them to play Iowa or Indiana in the B10 tourney). I think Penn State and Northwestern will each have to win two games in the B10 tourney (and NW needs to win today).

In any case, I think they have seven teams with bids locked up, regardless of whatever else may happen.


You're talking about the NIT right???

Groundhog 03-09-2009 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 1964752)
Davidson has no shot of getting in. Would be interesting to see if Curry stays another year. I'd have to imagine he'll be a lottery pick if he comes out. Another year though at PG could help him a lot. Then again, an injury or another non-appearance in the NCAA and it could hurt.


I think Curry is nuts if he stays. I don't think he can improve his stock much at all. He's shown he can play a little PG, and everyone knows he can shoot. I think he'll go anywhere from about the 8th through 20th picks.

Will be interesting to see him in the NBA, when he wont have three defenders all focusing on him. I don't think he's going to be a superstar, but he should be, at the very least, a solid combo-guard off the bench. A rich-man's Eddie House. :)

Big Fo 03-09-2009 07:17 PM

C of C is struggling in the second half here, down 11 after being tied at the half.

sterlingice 03-09-2009 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog (Post 1964740)
I'd rather watch Curry lighting teams up than, say, the 6th best team in the ACC.


Word

SI

Karlifornia 03-09-2009 08:07 PM

Gonzaga vs. St. Mary's for the WCC Title...should be a fun one.

Karlifornia 03-09-2009 08:08 PM

I guess St. Mary's Omar Samhain dunked in the layup line...which is a technical foul. Gonzaga is up 1-0 before they even tip it. I have never seen that happen.

sterlingice 03-09-2009 08:14 PM

I must have missed that. How is that a technical?

SI

Groundhog 03-09-2009 08:17 PM

Wow. Are you serious? The game hasn't even started, and he got a tech? That doesn't seem right to me.

MJ4H 03-09-2009 08:20 PM

Dunking in pregame warmups is a technical foul, yes.

Groundhog 03-09-2009 08:25 PM

Surprising.

I need to quit look at the live score, just discovered the game is replayed tonight for us folks downunder during primetime.

Karlifornia 03-09-2009 08:28 PM

Yeah, Groundhog...this is one you're gonna wanna watch.

miami_fan 03-09-2009 08:28 PM

I have never seen it called in anything higher than a high school game.

rjolley 03-09-2009 08:55 PM

It's definitely a college rule. Usually, there's an assistant, usually a student coach, around who let's players know when the refs come out to the floor so they don't get a tech.

Someone was asleep at the wheel tonight.

Karlifornia 03-09-2009 09:10 PM

Poor Niagara. They are hanging tough in a hostile environment against the team that is considered the class of the conference. If they can win, it would be something to really be proud of.

Swaggs 03-09-2009 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo (Post 1964756)
You're talking about the NIT right???


Here is the RPI/SOS/records for the B10 teams:

RPI Rk Big Ten Conf All RPI SOS Rk SOS
6 Michigan St. 15-3 25-5 0.6496 6 0.5944
20 Illinois 11-7 23-8 0.6139 26 0.5755
31 Purdue 11-7 22-9 0.5988 36 0.5694
36 Ohio St. 10-8 20-9 0.5960 30 0.5724
38 Wisconsin 10-8 18-11 0.5927 11 0.5864
41 Minnesota 9-9 20-9 0.5911 40 0.5659
42 Michigan 9-9 18-12 0.5886 10 0.5903
63 Penn St. 10-8 21-10 0.5689 82 0.5389
71 Northwestern 8-10 17-12 0.5616 46 0.5612
112 Iowa 5-13 15-16 0.5284 51 0.5592
211 Indiana 1-17 5-24 0.4752 5 0.5960


I believe 34 at-large teams make it and, obviously, a number of conference champions will be in the top 34 of the RPI. I would be pretty shocked to see any B10 team with .500+ conference record and an RPI under 50ish to not be considered pretty close to a lock.

Karlifornia 03-09-2009 10:12 PM

Wow....Gonzaga looks really good. It's the perfect time to be playing great basketball. Matt Bouldin is gonna piss off some opposing fans with his greasy looking hair and deadly 3-point shooting.

sooner333 03-09-2009 10:23 PM

Currently there are 12 teams in the top 34 who will be conference champions...fewer possibly if there are some upsets. Technically, that would give the Big Ten seven if it is all done by the RPI, but it's not necessarily done that way. Michigan probably has a leg up on Minnesota if they take out teams.

If you want to know those conferences are (I just took the top RPI team from each conference):

Big East (Pitt)
ACC (UNC)
Big 12 (Oklahoma)
Big Ten (Michigan State)
Conference USA (Memphis)
Mountain West (Utah)
Pac Ten (Washington)
A-10 (Xavier)
Horizon (Butler)
Metro Atlantic (Siena)
WAC (Utah State)
WCC (Gonzaga)

Groundhog 03-09-2009 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1964958)
Yeah, Groundhog...this is one you're gonna wanna watch.


Someone on another forum ruined it for me. Glad I didn't wait to watch it tonight now. :(

Chief Rum 03-09-2009 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1965097)
Here is the RPI/SOS/records for the B10 teams:

RPI Rk Big Ten Conf All RPI SOS Rk SOS
6 Michigan St. 15-3 25-5 0.6496 6 0.5944
20 Illinois 11-7 23-8 0.6139 26 0.5755
31 Purdue 11-7 22-9 0.5988 36 0.5694
36 Ohio St. 10-8 20-9 0.5960 30 0.5724
38 Wisconsin 10-8 18-11 0.5927 11 0.5864
41 Minnesota 9-9 20-9 0.5911 40 0.5659
42 Michigan 9-9 18-12 0.5886 10 0.5903
63 Penn St. 10-8 21-10 0.5689 82 0.5389
71 Northwestern 8-10 17-12 0.5616 46 0.5612
112 Iowa 5-13 15-16 0.5284 51 0.5592
211 Indiana 1-17 5-24 0.4752 5 0.5960


I believe 34 at-large teams make it and, obviously, a number of conference champions will be in the top 34 of the RPI. I would be pretty shocked to see any B10 team with .500+ conference record and an RPI under 50ish to not be considered pretty close to a lock.


I think 5 are a lock. Beyond that, not so sure. I think likely one more gets in. This is all assuming one of the "locks" wins the tourney.

Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue, Ohio State and Wisky are in. Likely just one of Minny, UoM and Penn St get in after that.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-10-2009 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1965155)
I think 5 are a lock. Beyond that, not so sure. I think likely one more gets in. This is all assuming one of the "locks" wins the tourney.

Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue, Ohio State and Wisky are in. Likely just one of Minny, UoM and Penn St get in after that.


FWIW.....here's the latest Bracketology 101 rankings, which have been the most accurate predictors of the NCAA field. They discuss the Big 11 teams......

Bracketology 101: Bracketology 101's Field of 65 - March 9

Fighter of Foo 03-10-2009 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1965097)
Here is the RPI/SOS/records for the B10 teams:

RPI Rk Big Ten Conf All RPI SOS Rk SOS
6 Michigan St. 15-3 25-5 0.6496 6 0.5944
20 Illinois 11-7 23-8 0.6139 26 0.5755
31 Purdue 11-7 22-9 0.5988 36 0.5694
36 Ohio St. 10-8 20-9 0.5960 30 0.5724
38 Wisconsin 10-8 18-11 0.5927 11 0.5864
41 Minnesota 9-9 20-9 0.5911 40 0.5659
42 Michigan 9-9 18-12 0.5886 10 0.5903
63 Penn St. 10-8 21-10 0.5689 82 0.5389
71 Northwestern 8-10 17-12 0.5616 46 0.5612
112 Iowa 5-13 15-16 0.5284 51 0.5592
211 Indiana 1-17 5-24 0.4752 5 0.5960


I believe 34 at-large teams make it and, obviously, a number of conference champions will be in the top 34 of the RPI. I would be pretty shocked to see any B10 team with .500+ conference record and an RPI under 50ish to not be considered pretty close to a lock.


I'll buy the first 5, but Michigan and Minnesota? Come on. 9-9 when you're playing other mediocre teams and have a guaranteed win or two versus this year's Indiana squad is not impressive at all. Throw in the pansy out of conference schedule and it's weak at best.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-10-2009 09:04 AM

Bubble teams get their first scare game tonight. Cleveland State plays Butler tonight for their conference championship. Cleveland State has won 11 of 13 and had close losses in both their meetings with Butler. Cleveland State also beat Syracuse earlier this year. A Cleveland State win means one less at-large bid for the big conferences.

Swaggs 03-10-2009 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo (Post 1965253)
I'll buy the first 5, but Michigan and Minnesota? Come on. 9-9 when you're playing other mediocre teams and have a guaranteed win or two versus this year's Indiana squad is not impressive at all. Throw in the pansy out of conference schedule and it's weak at best.


As most on here know, I am far from a Michigan fan (in either sport), but are you serious about the pansy out of conference schedule? They have wins over Duke and UCLA and their only OOC losses were to Duke (not a typo, they played once in a preseason tourney and then again later on) and Maryland (not an elite team, but mid-60s RPI is very solid and far from a bad loss).

Minnesota has an RPI of 41, went undefeated OOC w/ a win over Louisville (a top 10 RPI team and the BE champ), has 20 wins and a .500 record in the #2 RPI conference in the country, and no bad losses.

And, the thing about Indiana is that they are really the only tough out in the conference. Iowa is the only other team in the B10 that is outside the RPI top 75 and they are not "that" bad at 112. That is why, unless Iowa or Indiana upset someone, teams like Minny, Michigan, and Wisconsin can really only help themselves, profile/resume-wise, in the conference tournament.

DeToxRox 03-10-2009 10:20 AM

lol at Michigans pansy schedule. We played UConn even up in Storrs in February for most of the game before passing out. Played Duke twice, UCLA and Maryland. UM sos is 11 nationally. Come on about pansies.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-10-2009 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1965358)
(Michigan) has wins over Duke and UCLA and their only OOC losses were to Duke (not a typo, they played once in a preseason tourney and then again later on) and Maryland (not an elite team, but mid-60s RPI is very solid and far from a bad loss).

Minnesota has an RPI of 41, went undefeated OOC w/ a win over Louisville (a top 10 RPI team and the BE champ), has 20 wins and a .500 record in the #2 RPI conference in the country, and no bad losses.


The .500 record is the sticking point. Just based on the last three tournaments, the key to getting a bid if you're in one of the BCS conference is to get 20 wins in the regular season AND have a +.500 conference record. In the last three years, 100 out of 101 teams who met both those criteria made the NCAA tourney. If you don't have 20 wins in the regular season or have a .500 or less conference record, your changes of making the tourney drop significantly. Most likely, Minnesota and Michigan will need at least one win in the tourney and maybe two wins to play their way into the Dance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1965358)
And, the thing about Indiana is that they are really the only tough out in the conference. Iowa is the only other team in the B10 that is outside the RPI top 75 and they are not "that" bad at 112.


By the same token, it could also be argued that Ohio State is the only quality team in the conference. Every team except OSU has at least 7 losses in conference play. Just depends on whether you believe it's parity or a bunch of so-so teams who lack consistancy.

Fighter of Foo 03-10-2009 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 1965365)
lol at Michigans pansy schedule. We played UConn even up in Storrs in February for most of the game before passing out. Played Duke twice, UCLA and Maryland. UM sos is 11 nationally. Come on about pansies.


OK...was lumping you lot in with Penn St and Minny

Swaggs 03-10-2009 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1965368)
By the same token, it could also be argued that Ohio State is the only quality team in the conference. Every team except OSU has at least 7 losses in conference play. Just depends on whether you believe it's parity or a bunch of so-so teams who lack consistancy.


Not sure what you mean -- Ohio State finished fourth in the B10.

I'm no fan of the Big 10 (see Rich Rod and John Beilein defections), but just quickly looking over their OOC wins: Michigan St. over Kansas and Oklahoma, Illinois over Mizzou, Purdue over B.C., Ohio State over Butler/Miami/Notre Dame, Minnesota over Louisville, Michigan over Duke and UCLA, NW over Florida State. They have some pretty strong OOC wins.

I would be surprised if there is a Final Four team in there, with maybe the exception of Michigan State, but I think it is a pretty good league overall. Not as top heavy as the Big East or ACC or probably even the B12, but for its size, more depth and fewer below average teams.

DeToxRox 03-10-2009 10:43 AM

Oh Swaggs, RichRod I get, but come on, you did get Huggy to replace Belien. At worst for you that was a wash ;)

But seriously, as I do not remember WVU outside of tourney play under Coach B; does he usually run the gauntlet OOC like he has the first two years here? I love the fact we've faced so many solid teams, though I know he said last year we would not play as tough a schedule, and yet we still have.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-10-2009 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1965386)
Not sure what you mean -- Ohio State finished fourth in the B10.


Sorry, meant Michigan State, not Ohio State.

Swaggs 03-10-2009 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 1965389)
Oh Swaggs, RichRod I get, but come on, you did get Huggy to replace Belien. At worst for you that was a wash ;)

But seriously, as I do not remember WVU outside of tourney play under Coach B; does he usually run the gauntlet OOC like he has the first two years here? I love the fact we've faced so many solid teams, though I know he said last year we would not play as tough a schedule, and yet we still have.


I'm thrilled with Huggins, but Beilein left at a pretty bad time. He had just brought it 7 freshmen and a transfer to his system, which, as you know, is pretty unique. He also failed to go all out after some rare in-state talent during his last year or so (Billy Walker, O.J. Mayo, and Patrick Patterson), almost as if WVU was incapable of being considered for players of that calibre. He did a great job, but I feel like he had been looking to get out for awhile (looked at Indiana and NC State previously) and he seemed to believe that he would never be able to get top-notch recruits to WVU (which Huggins has been able to do). He doesn't get the Rich Rod treatment (Rod is an alum and had a lot of ties), but he or Michigan never asked permission to interview (which is obviously not required, but is usually considered a courtesy) and then fought his buyout. Everyone had always considered him a really classy guy and that wore a lot of luster off of him.

Plus, Beilein's offense was a lot of fun to watch (more on that in a moment) and got a lot of national attention. Like I said, I am very happy with Huggs and the talent and intensity he has brought (we hadn't had an NBA player in over 25 years and he comes in and transforms a marginal prospect like Joe Alexander into a lottery pick?), but after watching Beilein's offense, most other offenses looks out of sync and awkward.

All that said, here is what I think about Beilein, unobjectively. We were able to beat a lot of OOC teams with Beilein here -- I can quickly recall beating (during the regular season) UCLA twice (while they were having very good seasons), LSU, NC State a couple of times, Oklahoma, Maryland, Tennessee, and Florida -- teams that had more talent, but Beilein outcoached and we shot well. We also slipped up several times and lost to teams that we should not have, when our shots were not falling. His offense is so disciplined that, if shots are not falling, there is little wiggle room for creating offense off of 1 on 1s. We notably lost to Marshall several times during his tenure.

I think, at Michigan, he actually will be able to bring in better players than he had at WVU and I think he will be successful. His teams are tough to play/beat in tournaments, because his offense and defense (the 1-3-1) are so unorthodox that it takes time to prepare for, which you do not have when you are playing every day or two. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see a decent B10 tourney run this season from Michigan.

This next part is pretty much my own speculation, but there is some decent evidence to support it. I think Big East teams had gotten familiar enough with his style, that he was starting to struggle to beat them as consistently the final two years at WVU, even though we continued to have success in national tournaments against teams that were unfamiliar against us. I think that he recognizes/recognized this and likes to move on every 5-years or so, so that he can get a fresh start. He never seems to stay at one school for more than 5 or 6 years and his tenures always seem to take the same trajectory. I would expect some national success in the next 3-4 years at Michigan and then it will be interesting to see if he sticks around or moves on.

Radii 03-10-2009 11:48 AM

So do big east fans like this 5 day tournament? Its a 16 team conference... 1 v 16, 2 vs 15, etc etc, 4 day single elimination fits kinda nice :P I assume the reason its structured this way instead is to limit the top 4 teams to 3 games to keep them rested for the NCAA Tournament, but it just looks like a giant ugly mess to me.

Lathum 03-10-2009 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1965438)
So do big east fans like this 5 day tournament? Its a 16 team conference... 1 v 16, 2 vs 15, etc etc, 4 day single elimination fits kinda nice :P I assume the reason its structured this way instead is to limit the top 4 teams to 3 games to keep them rested for the NCAA Tournament, but it just looks like a giant ugly mess to me.


they claim they also wanted to get every team in.

Speaking of the Big East, I am sad to see my old school, CIncinnati, limp to the finish. Lost 3 in a row, including Seton Hall and USF, and are now struggling to beat DePaul.

Fighter of Foo 03-10-2009 12:47 PM

The 1-4 vs. 13-16 games would have been a waste of everyone's time. Rewards the teams by order of their finish too which makes the regular season more meaningful.

Radii 03-10-2009 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo (Post 1965493)
The 1-4 vs. 13-16 games would have been a waste of everyone's time. Rewards the teams by order of their finish too which makes the regular season more meaningful.


I don't see how a 9 vs 16 game followed by a 9 vs 8 game to see who gets to play Louisville is any less waste of time than Louisville playing winless DePaul. In fact its a greater waste of time as it adds a completely unnecessary day to the tournament. If that's the argument it seems like they should have kept it a 12 team tournament and just not allowed the bottom four teams in.

molson 03-10-2009 12:56 PM

I love the BE setup.

I like gradual build-up to the big names. There's the "play-in" day, then the winners get to take on the "good" teams, and then the survivors of all that get to take on the "great" teams. There's a certain elegance to that, though it does look like a mess at first glance.

And I like that for one day, the spotlight shines on the "other" teams. Look at Depaul - they didn't win a single conference game, and they're about to knock of Cincinnatti. That's the highlight of their entire season.

It also gives the "good" teams a chance for an "easy" win in the tournament. Take my team (Syracuse). They should be good for one tournament win vs. the winner of Seton Hall/South Florida. They've earned the shot to play a weaker team, and if they win that, they've earned the chance to take on UConn. It's hard to articulate, but the "correct" Syracuse run in the BE tournament just feels like it should be an easy win followed by a loss to UConn.

And I like that everyone is invited. I'm sure DePaul doesn't consider it a "waste of time" to take the trip to NYC. It's like big Big East party/celebration. I like that everyone gets to go.

hoopsguy 03-10-2009 01:00 PM

DePaul loves the format.

Radii 03-10-2009 01:04 PM

FYI, all the above comments do make sense. Its just that for any number of teams you can come up with, there is automatically one tournament format that makes the most sense. For 16 teams, its clearly 4 single elimination rounds.

What the big east does is fine, it just offends my need for symmetry in these things on first glance :D

molson 03-10-2009 01:09 PM

I think the other issue with the straight 16-team tournament is you'd either have to do 8 games in one day, or somehow decide who gets the extra day of rest between games.

Lathum 03-10-2009 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1965509)
FYI, all the above comments do make sense. Its just that for any number of teams you can come up with, there is automatically one tournament format that makes the most sense. For 16 teams, its clearly 4 single elimination rounds.

What the big east does is fine, it just offends my need for symmetry in these things on first glance :D


lol, I like it to for all the reasons Molson said.

Plus it is held at MSG and gives fans of the lower tier schools a chance to travel. Rutgers and St. Johns are typical bottom feeders in the league, I like the fact they get to play since their fans are so close. If I was still in the area I would be going to the RU game for sure.

Samdari 03-10-2009 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1965496)
I don't see how a 9 vs 16 game followed by a 9 vs 8 game to see who gets to play Louisville is any less waste of time than Louisville playing winless DePaul. In fact its a greater waste of time as it adds a completely unnecessary day to the tournament. If that's the argument it seems like they should have kept it a 12 team tournament and just not allowed the bottom four teams in.


The games today are certainly a waste of time. Cincinnatti-DePaul? Ridiculous. The fact that ESPN chose not to televise a portion of its primary partner's tournament should tell everyone what a waste of time these games are.

This was a compromise between the faction who wanted to include everyone and the one that wanted protect the top seeds. Led to a terrible solution.

I guess it does not really affect me - I can still watch tomorrow when the real games start, and pretend the four play in games did not happen. Of course, I am not a Cincinnatti fan.

sooner333 03-10-2009 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1965386)
Not sure what you mean -- Ohio State finished fourth in the B10.

I'm no fan of the Big 10 (see Rich Rod and John Beilein defections), but just quickly looking over their OOC wins: Michigan St. over Kansas and Oklahoma, Illinois over Mizzou, Purdue over B.C., Ohio State over Butler/Miami/Notre Dame, Minnesota over Louisville, Michigan over Duke and UCLA, NW over Florida State. They have some pretty strong OOC wins.

I would be surprised if there is a Final Four team in there, with maybe the exception of Michigan State, but I think it is a pretty good league overall. Not as top heavy as the Big East or ACC or probably even the B12, but for its size, more depth and fewer below average teams.


Good points, but Michigan State did not beat Oklahoma, they beat Texas, I believe.

Samdari 03-10-2009 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 1965499)
And I like that for one day, the spotlight shines on the "other" teams. Look at Depaul - they didn't win a single conference game, and they're about to knock of Cincinnatti. That's the highlight of their entire season.

It also gives the "good" teams a chance for an "easy" win in the tournament. Take my team (Syracuse). They should be good for one tournament win vs. the winner of Seton Hall/South Florida. They've earned the shot to play a weaker team, and if they win that, they've earned the chance to take on UConn. It's hard to articulate, but the "correct" Syracuse run in the BE tournament just feels like it should be an easy win followed by a loss to UConn.


I would dispute the "spotlight" point. The games are not on tv, and only girlfriends/parents are at the games (SJU will be the exception, somewhat). There is no spotlight on these games.

This format change also did not really change the prospects of the "good" (5-8 seeded) teams much. Under the previous format, Syracuse would have just played Seton Hall, with the winner facing UConn. Now, they'll play the winner of SHU/USF, and UConn if they win. In a straight, symmetric 16 team draw, they'd play Seton Hall with the winner playing the winner of UConn/USF. In all three cases, they'd be very likely to play Seton Hall then UConn.

This format actually hurt Providence today. They are largely considered the only Big East team on the bubble, and instead of getting a chance to get a respectable win before playing Louisville, they get a dreadful opponent.

gstelmack 03-10-2009 02:21 PM

Good article on CNN about how NOBODY else in the basketball or hockey worlds asks players to play on potentially 5 straight days:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ast/index.html

JonInMiddleGA 03-10-2009 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1965496)
I don't see how a 9 vs 16 game followed by a 9 vs 8 game to see who gets to play Louisville is any less waste of time than Louisville playing winless DePaul.


Cincinnati took care of that whole "winless DePaul" thing ;)

molson 03-10-2009 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack (Post 1965571)
Good article on CNN about how NOBODY else in the basketball or hockey worlds asks players to play on potentially 5 straight days:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ast/index.html


I'm sure that potential 5th day pushes them over the edge to becoming gas pumpers.

This is such a silly argument. If we cared about the academics of players, there wouldn't be conference tournaments at all (see the Ivy League), and the NCAA tournament would be regionally based, with games on campus sites, to limit travel. And all season long, games would only occur on weekends, or weeknights to sites close enough to ensure that kids would be back home the night of the game.

Of course in reality, most of these players can barely read, and hardly any of them would be "college students" at schools like these without basketball - so that's the priority.

But back to the current format, the top teams only need to play 3 games at most, which definitely adds importance to the regular season. DePaul/Cincinnati was "meaningless" in the sense that neither team is going to win the Big East tournament, but we could certainly pare down the NCAA tournament to a dozen or so teams if that's the criteria.

Wolfpack 03-10-2009 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1965509)
FYI, all the above comments do make sense. Its just that for any number of teams you can come up with, there is automatically one tournament format that makes the most sense. For 16 teams, its clearly 4 single elimination rounds.

What the big east does is fine, it just offends my need for symmetry in these things on first glance :D


Well, to be fair to the Big East, there's the whole logistical problem of figuring out how to schedule eight first round games in a traditional 16-team bracket arrangement. The choice would likely be between splitting the tournament to two sites on one day (MSG and Newark/E Rutherford?) or spreading the first round over two days and determining what the fairest arrangement would be as to who would get that second day as a rest day. Presumably the top four seeds and their opponents would go first so that those top four seeds get the rest day, but potential upsets would mean that a bottom-four seed gets the rest day while a middle seed would have to play back-to-back against the upset winner.

I suppose you could do it all in one day...if you don't mind getting up at 6 AM for the first game and staying until midnight for the last one and no breaks the entire day to boot. :D

sterlingice 03-10-2009 10:00 PM

Bubble teams watching nervously as Cleveland State is up 56-54 against Butler with about 1 min to go (ESPN). If Butler loses, they'll still get an at-large bid

SI

Lathum 03-10-2009 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1965950)
Bubble teams watching nervously as Cleveland State is up 56-54 against Butler with about 1 min to go (ESPN). If Butler loses, they'll still get an at-large bid

SI


yeah, that screws Davidson I think. Glad to see Gary Waters go to the tourny, I always thought he was a good coach at Rutgers who never stood a chance in the recruiting battle.

sooner333 03-10-2009 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1965960)
yeah, that screws Davidson I think. Glad to see Gary Waters go to the tourny, I always thought he was a good coach at Rutgers who never stood a chance in the recruiting battle.


Davidson was screwed when they lost all but one game against the top 100 and were a member of the Southern Conference. This really screwed someone like Florida or Creighton.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-11-2009 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1965960)
yeah, that screws Davidson I think. Glad to see Gary Waters go to the tourny, I always thought he was a good coach at Rutgers who never stood a chance in the recruiting battle.


Davidson was out as soon as they lost that game. Their RPI and SOS just aren't good enough.

Bracketology 101 has St. Mary's as the only #13 at-large bid as of yesterday, which means they will be out after the Cleveland State win.

Lathum 03-11-2009 10:04 AM

My use of Davidson was an example, insert St Marys, Florida, Creighton, or whoever. I forgot how literally people take stuff around here.

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-11-2009 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1966220)
My use of Davidson was an example, insert St Marys, Florida, Creighton, or whoever. I forgot how literally people take stuff around here.


You have stepped into the pit of basketball geekdom. :D

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-11-2009 10:24 AM

Mike DeCourcey discusses the Big 11/Big East/ACC and how something's has to give in regards to at-large bids for these conferences........

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NCAA Basketball stats, scores, standings, and blogs from NCAA Basketball columnists

Quote:

Welcome to bubbleland

It will be interesting to see how the committee judges the cases of Virginia Tech and Maryland from the ACC and Providence from the Big East against those of the Big Ten's myriad bubble teams. Essentially, what's happened is the Hokies, Terps and Friars could not overtake their league's powerful elite whereas the Big Ten had a vast middle class that allowed many of its teams to pile up top 50 victories. The top four teams in the Big East combined for 13 conference losses and 17 overall. The top four in the ACC combined for 19 league losses and 22 overall. However, the top four Big Ten teams lost 25 conference games and 31 overall. It was much easier for teams such as Minnesota and Michigan to secure attractive victories inside their leagues. Generally, past committees have voted against teams that could not take advantage of the opportunities that come with having great teams such as North Carolina and Duke on their home courts, which is why the ACC has been awarded four or fewer bids six times since 1999.

Lathum 03-11-2009 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1966228)
You have stepped into the pit of basketball geekdom. :D


:)

Dr. Sak 03-11-2009 11:14 AM

Are there any fans out there going to the Big 10 Tourney? If so let me know and maybe we can meet up!

Lathum 03-11-2009 11:33 AM

Don't look now but DePaul is up by 9 in the first half and Providence looks very tight

Lathum 03-11-2009 11:35 AM

dola-

8-o run by the Friars in about a 40 second span

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-11-2009 01:10 PM

Man, I can't believe how good the second day of the B12 tourney could be as far as matchups go.

KU vs. Baylor - Baylor has the offensive weapons when they're playing well to do a lot of damage. Many of KU's young players get their first B12 tourney game.

OU vs. OSU - Bedlam series on a neutral court in OK City. That'll be nuts.

MU vs. A&M - MU lost the season finale at College Station. A&M looks to solidify their NCAA credentials.

KSU vs. UT - KSU started UT's slide in the middle of the season with a win in Austin. Now KSU needs a win to have a shot at the bubble.

I may be leaving after lunch tomorrow.

muns 03-11-2009 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 1966264)
dola-

8-o run by the Friars in about a 40 second span


I dont think providence has any business being in this years tourney. Their big win agaisnt Pitt was horrible. Everything went their way and they still almost lost. Other than that they havent done or shown me anything. Just my 2 cents though :)

Lathum 03-11-2009 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns (Post 1966322)
I dont think providence has any business being in this years tourney. Their big win agaisnt Pitt was horrible. Everything went their way and they still almost lost. Other than that they havent done or shown me anything. Just my 2 cents though :)


Their performance today didn't do anything to help them.

spleen1015 03-11-2009 01:26 PM

This thread needs some A-10 love!

St. Louis and La Salle going to overtime!

spleen1015 03-11-2009 01:32 PM

St. Louis wins a butt clencher 62-60 in OT.

Goooooooooooooooooooooooo Billikens!

Mizzou B-ball fan 03-11-2009 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015 (Post 1966333)
This thread needs some A-10 love!

St. Louis and La Salle going to overtime!


SLU won in overtime.

hoopsguy 03-11-2009 02:33 PM

Wow - St. Johns with 3 field goals at halftime. That is not very good.

Swaggs 03-11-2009 09:50 PM

Syracuse and Seton Hall, in the midst of a tight game in the second half, are getting chippy.

First, a double technical and now a pretty nasty flagrant foul. Looked like there might be some ejections, but they went to break.

kingfc22 03-11-2009 09:51 PM

Very chippy game indeed


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