I'm a bit torn on my voting for today. I'm still not sure either Lathum or DT are wolves, but I don't like the fact that if one of them is a wolf (non cunning) that they can do the killing on a number of people while the cunning wolf is allowed to stay hidden. I see a lot of bickering between people, but not a whole lot of evidence for anyone. Sigh, wish we learned more from day one.

In retrospect, I think it was clever, but, yes, probably too clever, like DT's Whitney Houston hint. But I do think that was an idea that had some merit to it had the message gotten across. So I applaud the attempt at the very least.

So, IIRC, you have stated you want to look elsewhere than Lathum and DT. As you can see from my post above, I agree. But I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on my vote and on other potential candidates.

I don't buy Eaglefan as a top choice for my vote today. His "mistake" as well as Olie's "mistake" both seem to me like typical villager moves that wolves (or misguided villagers) are quick to jump on and thus condemning a good guy who can't talk their way out of a poor move or mistake.

EF's move doesn't feel as much like a wolf ploy or wolf misdirection to me as it just feels like him trying to find a wolf somewhere that they aren't.

I've had a bad gut feeling about Barkeep since early day 1 and have done everything I can to keep myself from acting on it up until now. I also have an odd feeling about Saldana and Sndvls right now too, just from their interaction in the game thus far.

I don't have anything that I would present as evidence to the rest of the group to try to encourage anyone to follow me though on a vote, but right now I've just been listening to other people's thoughts about what moves were made on day 1 to try to possibly condemn or save people. I'm likely going to try to also vote for someone I feel is suspicious but that can also give us further insight into day 1 though. (For instance if we lynch Saldana and he ends up a wolf, what does that tell us about his and Lathum's play together thus far this game.. what does it say about DT considering Saldana was basically the nail in the coffin vote today).

Well, my vote on EF is much more on the way he handled his vote on Day One, and how it fits into my picture of what the wolves are tryiong to do, although I can see your take on it as well. I am currently buying into the DT and Lathum are villagers theory, and following my "what would I do as a wolf if the village was locked onto two villagers" hypothetical if I were a wolf. And that would be to make the sort of move EF made. Neither time committing to someone in the mix, and saying relatively as little as possible. Not really to be UTR, but to avoid making any overt waves. That and voting later ("cautious" Day One voting is another trend I often see from wolves) were what led me to him.

It's not strong, but it is what it is. Obviously, I have my doubts about sal, too, having voted for him Day One, although that's more about peeking into hoop's mind than any actions saldana himself has taken. SnDvls I am not seeing yet. I need to see more from him to get a read. BK is sorta the same way with me. I'm not yet seeing why you're on him so high, and I find it sorta curious that you are blowing up that early misunderstanding thing with him, that I thought I was a simple mistake explained by cronin himself.

Both the vote on Oliegirl and EagleFan are probably misguided, but at this point, is there much more to go on? Still, I like your line of thinking here and since you are the one person proven good, there's a good chance I will vote with you.

I made sure to jump online early this morning to see if anything juicy had happened so I could change my vote if need be. But it seems like nothing is going so I will leave it where it is.

Wait until you get to his 0.22% comment! ;)

Misinformation? That's a lot of bunk. I don't know if the rules were changed or what, but that's what I thought they were -- I'm not going to intentionally lie about the rules (which are right at the top of this thread, so easy to verify if I'm lying) to mislead people. I was wrong, and I admitted it, but that's an uncool accusation.

You must be talking about me, since I'm the one who outright said it. Danny corrected me a post or three later, and I realized he was right. I don't know why I thought it only applied to that night, but whatevs.

I think the spy can only catch someone if he or she follows the wolf making the kill. Of course, I could be pumping you with misinformation. :rolleyes:

Huh? Nothing to do with you, dude. Had no idea you were involved. You maybe asked the question that led to us looking at that. The possibility of a misinformation campaign, which I admit is a stretch, would have been more subtle and at the hands of several people from far earlier in the thread.

Is there a reason why you jump to assuming I am accusing you? I explained a couple different times in the past few posts what I meant, neither of which pointed to you if you read what I said.

Lathum, I need you to make me feel better about why you would have even made this post on day 1. At the point you had made this, Saldana had just shown up for the first time since the game officially started, had only made 3 posts I believe (1 to defend you, 1 to laugh at me for already looking at him as a possible wolf and 1 to check in).

I'm having a pretty tough time trying to decide why you would make this post in such a way here. I've already said that I am not voting you today barring some new information from someone, but I still am trying to figure out what several people's play were on day 1.

This post feels like it is saying one thing, but with a different intended purpose to me.

No new action this morning. What a difference compared to day one.

I don't think I like your plan of waiting to see where I go with my vote and then just following me there by the way. While I usually feel really good about my gut decisions in games (even when blatently incorrect!) and it makes it easy for me to push my agenda in games (regardless if I am good or evil) if people blindly follow me... Doing so tells me absolutely nothing about you... Other than you're trying to blend in.

I'd rather people pick out whom they think would make the most sense for a vote, explain why they feel that way and give an explanation why that choice is better than someone else. Even if it is to vote Lathum and/or DT again today and you disagree with me that you feel that risk is the best choice today, I'd like to see people make cases for why they believe that.

I was very tempted to vote for you this morning to see if you still followed my vote, but decided to be nice since I haven't played many games with you :)

lol, in that case I probably would not have followed your vote :).

I still feel that limiting the wolves to use their cunning wolf is a good plan and don't like the fact that both Targo and Lathum if one is a wolf could now conceal the cunning wolf's identity without risking themselves. Between the two, I feel better about lynching Lathum because if Daddy is the BG that would be a huge loss. If Lathum is the fake seer, it could actually help us.

So I will stick with my day one vote for now.

Vote Lathum

I'm the one who mistakenly said that the wolves could only kill someone who voted for them that day. That's what you were talking about, right?

I dunno, Danny seems to be bothering me. I duno why :(

anyone else getting a devios vibe from him? Am I just crazy?


(back to silence)

I've felt the same way as you, Alan, but it seems they're working so closely together, with the same opinions, then saying there's no way they could both be wolves, hoping to get one semi-cleared if the other comes up wolf or something. As I typed this, it made me wonder if they were masons, and I thought about just nixing the post, but then I remembered that Lathum can't be a mason, since he's one of the seer types (note that by saying the word seer, I am in no way hinting at being a seer).

I am getting something...but I can't explain it. CR is bothering me too...

At this point, I'm just as likely to be bad as anyone else. More than anything, I am little frustrated that I don't have a good feeling about anyone.

If this has been a source of confusion, please forgive me. The cunning wolf may kill any player on any night. All other wolves may only kill players who have voted for them at some point in the game. This, in fact, is a change from the rule as originally conceived. This rule only includes final votes, not votes that are later unvoted, but it does include all final votes made throughout the game. If anybody is still confused pm me and I'll craft a specific example to make it clearer.

+1

i've got a crazy day today it appears (silly ADD boss changing his mind last minute) but i will pop on at lunch and see what's up and vote

Day 1 vote flow:

(196) Barkeep votes Sndvls [1] Snd
(204) Kwhit votes Mrs.Schmidty [1] Snd [1] MS
(250) DaddyTorgo votes Lathum [1] Snd [1] MS [1] L
(270) Passacaglia votes Oliegirl [1] Snd [1] MS [1] L [1] O
(278) Kwhit UNVOTES Mrs.Schmidty [1] Snd [1] L [1] O
(278) Kwhit votes Lathum [2] L [1] Snd [1] O
(283) Barkeep UNVOTES Sndvls [2] L [1] O
(283) Barkeep votes Lathum [3] L [1] O
(291) Claphamsa votes Schmidty [3] L [1] O [1] Schm
(294) Render votes Lathum [4] L [1] O [1] Schm
(326) Alan votes Saldana [4] L [1] O [1] Schm [1] Sal
(339) Lathum votes DaddyTorgo [4] L [1] DT [1] O [1] Schm [1] Sal
(362) Eaglefan votes Mrs.Schmidty [4] L [1] DT [1] O [1] Schm [1] Sal [1] M.S
(394) Schmidty votes Eaglefan [4] L [1] DT [1] O [1] Schm [1] Sal [1] M.S [1] EF
(431) Danny votes Lathum [5] L [1] DT [1] O [1] Schm [1] Sal [1] M.S [1] EF
(464) Alan UNVOTES Saldana [5] L [1] DT [1] O [1] Schm [1] M.S [1] EF
(464) Alan votes Lathum [6] L [1] DT [1] O [1] Schm [1] M.S [1] EF
(527) Claphamsa UNVOTES Schmidty [6] L [1] DT [1] O [1] M.S [1] EF
(527) Claphamsa votes kwhit [6] L [1] DT [1] O [1] M.S [1] EF [1] Kwh
(538) Lonestargirl votes DaddyTorgo [6] L [2] DT [1] O [1] M.S [1] EF [1] Kwh
(556) PackerFanatic votes DaddyTorgo [6] L [3] DT [1] O [1] M.S [1] EF [1] Kwh
(580) Sndvls votes Eaglefan [6] L [3] DT [2] EF [1] O [1] M.S [1] Kwh
(594) Chief Rum votes Saldana [6] L [3] DT [2] EF [1] O [1] M.S [1] Kwh [1] Sal
(596) Saldana votes Mrs.Schmidty [6] L [3] DT [2] EF [2] M.S [1] O [1] Kwh [1] Sal
(604) Oliegirl votes Mrs.Schmidty [6] L [3] DT [3] M.S [2] EF [1] O [1] Kwh [1] Sal
(605) Mccollins votes DaddyTorgo [6] L [4] DT [3] M.S [2] EF [1] O [1] Kwh [1] Sal
(646) Claphamsa UNVOTES Kwhit [6] L [4] DT [3] M.S [2] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(646) Claphamsa votes DaddyTorgo [6] L [5] DT [3] M.S [2] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(650) Telle votes Lathum [7] L [5] DT [3] M.S [2] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(659) Sndvls UNVOTES Eaglefan [7] L [5] DT [3] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(659) Sndvls votes DaddyTorgo [7] L [6] DT [3] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(676) Mrs.Schmidy votes DaddyTorgo [7] L [7] DT [3] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(686) Alan T UNVOTES Lathum [7] DT [6] L [3] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(686) Alan votes DaddyTorgo [8] DT [6] L [3] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(691) Saldana UNVOTES Mrs.Schmidty [8] DT [6] L [2] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(691) Saldana votes DaddyTorgo [9] DT [6] L [2] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(700) Oliegirl UNVOTES Mrs.Schmidty [9] DT [6] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(707) Oliegirl votes Daddytorgo [10] DT [6] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(709) Alan UNVOTES Daddytorgo [9] DT [6] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(709) Alan votes Lathum [9] DT [7] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(725) Goldeneagle votes DaddyTorgo [10] DT [7] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] O [1] Sal
(745) Passacaglia UNVOTES Oliegirl [10] DT [7] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] Sal
(745) Passacaglia votes Lathum [10] DT [8] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] Sal
(778) Alan UNVOTES Lathum [10] DT [7] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] Sal
(778) Alan votes Alan [10] DT [7] L [1] M.S [1] EF [1] Sal [1] Al

I don't think I finished my thought in the first sentence -- it seems like they're being so blunt about having the same opinions, that they're being way too obvious about it.

Thanks for doing this, Alan. This part looks interesting to me, since it gave us a three-horse race for a brief moment, then brought it back to two. If we're looking at villager-villager yesterday, then I wonder if attempts were made to save Mrs. Schmidty.

Well I am.

:rant:

The votes I'm having the toughest time digesting from day 1 are above..

DT: Lathum is absolutely correct, you did jump on Kwhit's thoughts about Lathum being a possible wolf really fast. In case if you really are a bodyguard, this was a pretty risky move for you to make as the bodyguard, to jump right on someone else's idea and be the first vote even before they get a chance to.

BK: Something about how BK framed alot of his discussion to start the day 1 bothered me. I even partially revealed and planned on pushing for a BK lynch for day 1 because of it but got stopped in my tracks when Cronin stepped in. This vote for Lathum didn't bother me as much as DT's vote for Lathum however as it seemed at least consistent with the idea that BK was pushing at the start (That Hoops wouldn't have picked more than 1 of Lathum, BK or myself for a wolf and that BK felt Lathum was the most likely candidate of the three).

Sndvls: Not sure why Sndvls is bothering me this game, but it might be because of the same reason Saldana bothers me this game.. a respect I have for their play and as a wolf they could be scary and get by for a while before drawing attention. Sndvls vote for Eaglefan earlier on just because something about him is bothering you seemed a bit off to me when I read through, but the part that bugs me is you later move your vote to DT after some of the ground between DT and Lathum had been recovered to supposedly keep everyone honest and keep the vote close. You could have done that earlier with your vote as well when Lathum had a bit bigger of a lead, but you chose to go elsewhere instead.

Saldana: Everyone understands that you and Lathum are great friends, and you both seemed fine with openly supporting each other's play earlier in day 1 despite not having any idea if the other one might be a wolf. Yet when it is time to get your vote on paper, you seemed to disown Lathum here and vote Mrs.Schmidty when you could have instead made it a much closer fight between Lathum and DT and possibly help save your buddy. Later on however once DT had pulled into a 2 vote lead over Lathum, you felt that you should move your vote to DT once it almost became meaningless to do so. Now I don't know anyone in Real life that I play WW with on this board, but there are a good number of players from WW here that I really enjoy playing with and in most cases try to support them staying alive on Day 1 at least until we have further information (such as what I have done with Hoopsguy in previous games). If I were in your shoes, I would have likely voted DT earlier on to try to save my friend whom I was earlier campaigning with. This just seems inconsistant and I can't figure out what the reason for that is.

Telle - Right when DT seemed to have almost caught up all of the ground between him and Lathum, out of the blue Telle throws virtually the only vote that Lathum got at all on Wednesday to try to spread back the distance once again. Not sure if there is much more behind this besides Telle not getting a wolf vibe from DT as she had said, but if DT ends up being bad, this looks bad for Telle.

Passacaglia: Pass's move here seems like what could be interpreted as a good villager play to save the supposedly revealed bodyguard.. but this case is special as it would have been at the expense of a possibly revealed seer.. That is not what bothers me about this move though, the only thing that bothers me here is I could swear that I've been in a game with Pass as a wolf where he did this exact same move off of someone when they revealed just to look better.

FTR, I'm not sure which game you're talking about, but isn't it a pretty common wolf move to take your vote off someone who reveals? Anyway, I didn't taky my vote off someone who revealed -- I took my vote off oliegirl.

I worded it poorly there. your vote was obviously intended to try to save DT though there after his reveal. Which like I said might not be a huge deal, it just reminded me of something you have done before as a wolf though.

I'm not sure I understand all the doubt in DT's reveal. There's only one bodyguard, so it's not like the seer reveal, where we would need two more reveals to know something is up -- if DT is not the bodyguard, it's an easy decision IMO for the bodyguard to reveal, and we get a wolf, and even then, the BG might be able to keep himself alive for a while. Since there's been no other reveal, I don't see why anyone would doubt DT.

Could be, but I still don't know which time you mean. I'm not trying to argue the point -- I just like thinking back on times when I was a wolf, but since I don't remember this one, I missed my chance. No big deal.

Perhaps the bodyguard disagrees with you and feels that he can bust DT at any point later, and wants to stay quiet for now to keep himself safe longer and perhaps try to figure out more info on who might be a wolf based on play involving DT. Since if he dies anyways, he is revealed at death as the bodyguard, the only time this becomes a problem is if the real bodyguard ends up possibly on the lynch block..

Or perhaps I'm just trying to still create some doubt in DT's reveal to keep the wolves from trying to go after him if they think that we might still possibly lynch him.

Either way in this case I don't see the harm in letting both DT and Lathum live a bit longer to let the wolves have to push the buttons to kill them off instead of us doing it for them.

I think this is the best thing I have to go on right now.

VOTE MRS. SCHMIDTY

I really don't see those votes as trying to save Mrs.Schmidty. This has no bearing on my feelings of if Mrs.S is a wolf or not, but the place, time and by whom those votes were made feel more to be a referendum on the Lathum vs DT debate than anything to do with Mrs.S.

My Day 1 vote is really quite simple. I didn't believe Lathum's reveal (and still have my doubts) and didn't see any real reason for voting for DaddyTorgo beyond "everyone else is doing it", and they were the only real candidates. And it was plenty early enough that it was far from being any "final nail in the coffin".. especially as you can clearly see that the momentum ended up swinging the other way towards DT.

CR is definitely popping my spidey sense.


For now:

VOTE CHIEF RUM

I agree with you about mickey c's vote, which was probably made at the exact same time as olie's. But not clap's -- his in fact came along with thanking telle for the vote count, which makes me think he had an eye on the count when he was making it.

Now that I know Alan is clear, and knowing that I am good, I just don't see Hoops passing on all three of us. That only leaves Lathum. Even if he's telling the truth, which I was more inclined to believe yesterday, he still might be bad for the village as the fake seer (just as a cultist is bad for the village).

Vote Lathum

I'm glad there weren't 7 pages of posts to catch up on this morning! :) We've been slammed at work this morning so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to be around between now and noon...

I will say that my vote yesterday on Mrs S, was basically a "I'm not voting for Lathum or DT" vote, at that time at least. As I've gone over already, I changed my mind in the debacle with both DT and I getting confused and referencing the wrong people (his quote, my vote)...

i think your decimal points are off...we have a 4.8% chance of finding one roled player out of 21....the chances of finding a second one are also 1 in 21, which is a 1 in 441 chance of both things happening at the same time.

i'm not...you skipped a post or two of mine...i realize there were alot of people in the thread...my point was 7 of those already had their votes on lathum, so that only leaves a handful (roughly 5) that could have influence the vote in DTs favor

I don't really like any of the current people that have votes on them as votes for today.

I might change my mind later on this.. I really want to vote Barkeep right now but instead will

Vote Saldana

CR's numbers are for finding ANY two roled players. Yours are for finding two "called" roled players.

I haven't played in awhile.. but I'm used to Barkeep giving in-depth analysis. Has he been more quiet like this lately?

DT was discussing the possibility of a second candidate on day 1 and bought up Saldana. I then said if DT thinks I am a wolf then Sal shouldn't be the second candidate becaus Hoops wouldn't put us on the same team.

But I still don't understand this arguement.. You clarifying this seems to suggest that you actually would have agreed with DT then making Saldana a second choice.. You just said yourself, if one of you is a wolf, likely the other one isn't.. So if there is at least a decent chance you are on different teams, having you two as the two candidates for a lynch seems to be a good way to go in order to track voting history if one of you is a wolf and the other one isn't..

I mean, correct me if I am wrong, but if DT isn't sure that you are a wolf, wouldn't it make more sense that he would feel either you or Sal might be one but not both? Since you presume to know you aren't a wolf, what does Sal being the second candidate have to do with you at all.. wouldn't that make you then suspect Sal more?

I guess I'm just not following the relevance in your line of thinking here.. I think from where I am sitting, your arguement even gives a better reason to have made Saldana a second candidate on day one with you, not less of a reason.

I'll be as brief as I can with any potential explanation of earlier moves and hunches. I am between meetings and will most likely be unavailable for the rest of the day before the deadline (unless I can sneak in duing lunch).


Day 1 vote of Mrs Schmidty was based purely off needing to vote for someone and she was as good of a place as any at that point. Later I did begin to get a little suspicious of her as she seems to be acting a little like a first time wolf. Maybe even moreso now after I look back as I could have believed new player exhuberance a bit but she seems to have backed off a bit after it was called out.

Had worked over night and then had a dentist appointment to get my crown (not sure why that word had vanished from my mind yesterday when trying to say what I was getting done and the word cap kept coming out) so I had limited time to really see what the many pages were all about but had no reason to move my vote.

Looking at how yesterday's vote went I think that it is likely the wolves were setting up Lathum or he is a wolf who was being protected (which may mean he is the wolf who can kill anyone regardless of vote). That also tells me that DT is close to a CoT. Unfortunately we don't have a true result to work with after the vote.

On to oliegirl, I still think there is something to be said of the idea of at least one female wolf. I don't doubt that there may be more. I quoted LSG's post about the idea and many of oligirl's posts to illustrate this. The actions within those posts could point to oliegirl being wolfish as she seemed to jump into the save Lathum mix to vote for DT right after she declared that she was not going to change her vote. While the hoops vote is being downplayed I still think that needs examined.

Sundvils is really getting me wondering as well. He has not made many posts and expresses that he has feelings about different people but I have not seen any explanation for these feelings. He hasn't quite made my CoD yet though.

Mrs Schmidty's fate may lie in oliegirl's hands. I would not doubt that one of the two are wolves but they seem to be on opposite sides so I doubt that they both are (but I would not be surprised if LSG was a wolf, not accusing at this polint just saying that it could play into the "there is one female wolf" line, try to get everyone thinking that there could be just one female wolf, especially if one may be in trouble of a vote, and then when that one turns up it may take the heat off the other(s) ).

CR, I can't quite get a read on him yet. I was a wolf with him last game and he doesn't seem to be playing it the same way that he did for that game.

Pass, I have no idea at this point. I always think he is a wolf. Hell, even when I was a wolf recently and he wasn't I still suspected that he was. ;)



CoT:
alan t


Almost CoT:
DT


CoD:
Lathum
Mrs Schmidty
oliegirl
PB - I know he's not playing but he's always on my CoD since he has been on the opposite team as me every game but one (it just wouldn't seem right for me not to include him ;) )


Keep an eye on:
Sundvils
LSG

if my math is wrong, please correct it, seriously..i could very easily be wrong.

From your earlier explanation, it sounds like you are trying to figure the probability of getting the bodyguard and the seer (forgetting the fact that there are two seers), while CR's number was just any roled villager -- so instead of 1 out of 21, it's something like 8 or 9 out of 21.

VOTE BARKEEP

barkeep is a very smart, analytical player. If there is even a .01% chance I am the real seer I don't see him voting me off unless he is a wolf.


Plus he made the argument that Hoops wouldn't pass on me, ALan, and BK. Well I know I am good and 99% sure Alan is also.

dola- I agree with Alan, I see no reason for the BG to come out just to nail a wolf when eventualy it will catch up with DT.

I also still think DT is lying through his fangs

Alan- my argument was that DT thinks I am a wolf. If he thinks that the Sal is a bad candidate. I was just trying to eliminat some of the crap DT was flinging agains walls to see what sticks

triple dola- It would actualy be funny as hett if Poli had selected me and Sal as masons. We would know who each other are but not be able to talk about it which would be ammusing.

I'd prefer to just, you know, try voting for a wolf.

Here's the two posts DT made about saldana. The first one was in response to when Alan voted for saldana, and the second one was in response to saldana saying you two couldn't both be wolves. I just don't see this as him flinging crap against walls. Do you have some personal history with DT that I don't know about?

I dunno - I think Lathum and Saldana are just starting the game as RL friends who want to see the other be able to play as long as possible unless that person is close to assured to being a wolf. I've played the same way on the early days in recent games.

Sweet! I was getting ready to try to the same over lunch since it was kinda quiet on here this morning.

BK trying to throw votes around and LGS' aggressiveness of late have peaked my radar - but for all I know, this is always how they play.

Are you missing LoneStarGirl's vote on Chief Rum in post 939?

Probably!

I'll put my vote back where it started yeserday

VOTE EAGLEFAN

not sure what it is that pings me about him but it does right now.

Maybe you have (I haven't noticed), but if so, you haven't been anywhere near as belligerent about it.

Ok so we have 3 very viable wolf targets with 2 votes each, as is my preference lets keep this a three horse race for the time being and see what shakes out shall we?

VOTE BARKEEP49

Something rubs me the wrong way about him.

What if I don't like any of those three for my vote today?

Exactly what I was thinking. I don't like any of them. Although now Barkeep has two on him, and I'm thinking of going in that direction.

Maybe you just weren't sure about Lathum or DT, but I found it odd that an active player like you waited all day to make a move one way or the other. Granted, you could have just been waiting for DT to follow through on his hinted reveal to see if he was believable, but I thought it was a weird way to play your vote.

I am torn between voting for BK and EF, I don't want to do what looks like a "retaliatory" vote unless I have to in order to save myself, and BK is a little higher on my suspect list right now anyway, so...

Vote Barkeep49

I think we need to go back (similar to NC's Alpha wolf game) to identifying a list of veterans and the probability that hoops would have selected them for the wolf team.

BK lists: BK, Alan, Lathum.

Who else? We can guess there has to be at least one or two vet wolves, right? And wouldn't those be the most damaging to leave hanging around? After watching Alan work the room last game I'd say so.

That's fine -- I'm comfortable with that. I think you're right that I didn't have much of a read. I'm fine with putting myself in the camp that tried to save DT based on his reveal and lack of a counter.

I agree that the BG needs to stay quiet if it isn't DT. If it's a traditional BG, there's a 50% chance the wolves can kill him on any night and then there is no protection for the seer & spy.

Hoops goes way back, and because of which there are quite a few excellent players that haven't played much lately or that some of the newer players aren't familiar with.

I tried to give thoughts yesterday on this subject, but the problem is that I can easily name more than 6 players that have played WW for years here that Hoops could have picked to fill those roles.

4 horse race

barkeep (3)
chief rum (2)
lathum (2)
eaglefan (2)

is that correct?

going to get some lunch - be back to lay down a vote before my client meeting at 2pm (at which point i will be unavailable till later)

Well, feel free to list whoever you consider really good vets that hoops would have wanted as a wolf.

For now, I know BK is a very strong player that hoops would have considered and it isn't much but he encouraged the run on Lathum yesterday when I think most of us wanted to keep it close to be able to watch the voting patterns:

Vote Barkeep

Well now it's going to look like a pile-on, but out of the four choices Barkeep is the one I'm most distrustful of.

VOTE BARKEEP

barkeep (5)
lathum, rum, eagle (2 each)

that correct?

Plus oliegirl, Mrs. Schmidty, and saldana with 1 each.

That is what I have.

hooly ccrap! i freeze through a staff meeting and there is all this.... I was gonna vote BK, until i saw 50 votes in 10 posts!

vote ef

not a solid vote, but it looks like BKs getting run

big run on Barkeep there

Did I miss something with BK? Is this vote based solely on what if or did he so something to bring on the suspicion?

This is a question for both Lathum and Barkeep...

You both equally seem to be pushing the whole 1 of the 3 (Alan, BK, Lathum) isn't like the others approach in stating that no way Hoops passes up on all three.. In fact both of you have given it for a reason for a vote at least once even...

Hypothetically speaking, what would your response be if the other ended up being lynched and wasn't a wolf.. Since you've pushed for this theory (in BK's case 2 days) and now you suddenly see either BK or Lathum now lynched and turn up good along with me being good.. What defense do you use when alot of people suddenly want to use your own strategy against you and come after you as the only member of the 3 left not verified as good?

For me it's just a gut instinct. And I don't have much for the other candidates although I'm still slightly suspicious of Lathum but not enough to vote for the potential seer again. I just wish I had been vote #3 instead of #5 :)

big nasty run on BK. As for me, unless i change my mind after I duck out here again to nibble on something before my meeting (i didn't feel like a huge lunch for some reason)

VOTE LATHUM

Votes as of post 1089:

5 - Barkeep - Lathum (1052), PackerFanatic (1068), oliegirl (1072), mccollins (1079), Telle (1080)
3 - EagleFan - Chief Rum (1000), SnDvls (1069), claphasma (1084)
3 - Lathum - Danny (1015), Barkeep (1040), DaddyTorgo (1089)
2 - Chief Rum - LoneStarGirl (939), Render (1038)
1 - oliegirl - EagleFan (943)
1 - Mrs. Schmidty - Passacaglia (1035)
1 - saldana - Alan T (1044)

DT, out of curiosity why should we believe your reveal but not believe Lathum's reveal from yesterday?

Also for DT... if your vote is because of the nasty run on BK, why didn't you put your vote anywhere that actually could either help BK or at least give another option to BK for the lynch instead of putting a second person with 3 votes?

In my opinion, this run on Barkeep is not justified. What is the reasoning for this? He has been quiet this game. Is that the only reason? There were four straight votes on Barkeep and 5 out of 6. I am not sure what I make out of that.

Your only explanation for voting for EagleFan is because Barkeep is getting piled on to? Are you just trying to stop the bleeding and if so, why?

because i know who i am, but kwhit's analysis of lathum just has too much logic to it for me to ignore.

as for why i put my vote where i did - of all people you shouldn't have to ask that question

my explanation for voting for EF is this, 3 people are pinging me (not that means alot, since i was sure Kwhitt was bad) they are Danny EF and BK. Danny has no votes, so nothign happenign there, BK just had a wild run on him, so EF was the obvious choise. as i said , its not a set vote, but i have to vote for someone :)

Pass.

Tell me the incentive for the BG to counter DT's reveal

Don't really like this answer at all. Doesn't help give me much insight at all into your thought processes and you are completely ignoring my opinion from earlier about today's vote on why I felt people shouldn't vote for you or Lathum.

Maybe I should find a different way to get answers out of people.

if you think about it for a minute you might realize why i put my vote on lathum.

i also can't deny that kwhit's argument has a certain inherent logical consistency that i find seductive - and kwhit being revealed as vanilla villager means that i am free to do so with significantly less worry.

There won't be another BG revealing (unless it's a fake) because I am the BG. Period.