Game over, no no for Verlander

is there a cooler manager in baseball then Jim Leland??

I do not believe there is. Class act.

I bet he takes Verlander out for beers and a cigar tonight.

beer...


BRB

Into his second full season and he already has a no-hitter. Has there every been anybody to get one quicker?

Just finished watching this on Tivo. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Anibel Sanchez threw one last year as a rookie. I'm sure there's been a couple more.

I was reading in a thread posted like a week ago, At least one rookie I think threw one in his very first start.

There was a guy in the 70s, I think, who threw a no-hitter in his first start, and then pretty much bombed out of the league after that. His final career numbers were something like 20 games, 5.20 era.

edit- it was Bobo Holloman, in the 50s. Memory fails.

Bud Smith.

Might wanna hope Verlander doesn't replicate his career.

curt schilling is angry.

oh...and re:bonds

if he breaks the record at Fenway (or at Wrigley for that matter) I'd probably throw up. But especially here. I have a feeling Boston would crucify him though, so at least it'd be interesting reading.

Verlander has way more talent than Smith ever had. He just needs to stay healthy.

Just got back from the CoPa. The atmosphere rivaled Game 4 vs the Yanks. Unreal. So amazing. My legs were shaking vs Hardy. When he got that pop up it was FANFUCKINGTASTTIC!!

awesome, I hope you saved your stub

Oh its tucked away. I'll be holding onto this one forever.

Great performance - I don't buy the 102 reading in the 9th, but I bet it was 99 at the least. And that curveball - jesus, Bonds and Ruth in their primes would not have hit that.

he was filthy

and my fantasy baseball team smiles tonight.. thanks Verlander!

LOL....Drew Carey is a dirty liar!

That's hands-down the funniest quote I've ever seen from Ichiro. No offense to any Cleveland residents...

If this is true, it'll be a very interesting battle with the union and I think Selig is positioning himself very well in regards to public perception and how he'll look if he ends up in front of congress again. If he loses in arbitration then next time there's a hearing on steroids he can point to Giambi admitting steroid use and he can say there's nothing he can do to players because the union blocked his punishment.

One thing here that is inaccurate is the thought that steroids weren't illegal during the timefram Giambi is apparently admitting to taking them. Steroids were actually banned in '91 by Faye Vincent. I've seen it stated so many times I've lost count that steroids weren't specified as illegal prior to the testing agreement with the union. Thats not true, they were illegal and the commissioner had authority to suspend players as he saw fit.

Thats where it could be interesting. The union is going to say he never tested positive and it was before the testing was agreed to. However, I think that since it was before the agreement, Selig may actually have more power and may be able to suspend Giambi as he sees fit.

Here's the exact quote from Vincent's memo:


It goes on to specifically mention steroids. This gives the commissioner a lot of leeway in what he wants to do with Giambi.

Should be very interesting if he decides to suspend him.

god the Mets are giving me gas.

not tghe form you want them to be in heading into the Yankees series

Selig is a joke and suspending Giambi will reiterate to me that he's the worst commissioner ever.

This is just getting beyond bizarre. First question, what does Selig mean by talk to George Mitchell? Does he want him to spill his guts about himself and the rest of the league? What if Giambi talks but does not give George Mitchell "enough" information? I may be in the minority but I would not be impressed by a suspension. I give Bud credit for one thing. No one can accuse him of being a racist anymore. His witch hunt has become all inclusive.

Apparently the argument Selig would make is the exact opposite of the union's - while the union will argue he has no power to take action because it's not in the basic agreement, Selig's position will be that because it's not in the basic agreement, that means he has he authority to do whatever he wants on the issue "in the best interests of baseball." At least that's what I've read in a couple of places. I'm not quite sure that squares with all of the public comments he made for several years before they agreed to the testing/discipline plan.

I think this is more him trying to take a shot at the union since players aren't cooperating in the Mitchell investigation. If the Mitchell investigation is a giant failure (and considering not a single player has testified its looking that way) then baseball could very well end up in front of congress again. Selig is setting himself up to put all the blame in the MLBPA.



I've read that, too. But if you look at the guidelines given by Faye Vincent, he could suspend him under that and not have to use the "best interests of baseball" clause. If Giambi argues he took steroids before the testing policy was put in place, then Selig could very well suspend him for as long as he wishes.

I can't see how suspending Giambi helps the investigation or is in the best interests of baseball. Let's assume that Giambi does not talk to George Mitchell at all. What will he be suspended for? For not cooperating with the investigation? If so, then Bud needs send the same threat out to the entire MLBPA. Admitting to using "that stuff"? IIRC he admitted to using steriods in his leaked grand jury testimony. Is Bud trying to convince me that saying "that stuff" is more damming than that? And after he suspends Giambi, then what? I don't think anyone will be running to talk to George Mitchell and even less will be talking to the media.

On a sidenote, I wouldn't say the report will be a giant faliure. I am sure it will expose some (all?) of the misconduct on the part of the managers, team execs, medical personnel, and/or league officials. Then Bud could seat before Congress (or the public for that matter) and present the demons from that era and then explain that they would have gotten more but the players stonewalled them.

There will be misconduct from the teams's side in the report, right?

Glad to see Alex Gordon putting together a couple of nice games.

Yeah, 11 for his last 26 going back to the Cleveland game including 5 XBH and he's just hit the ball on the nose practically every time up. Now, if only he could do something about his horrible press photo (check out Yahoo).

SI

Another really nice game by Meche tonight. He started to labor at ~105 pitches but got out of it around 113 or 114:

G. Meche

8.0

6

1

1

1

3

1

Intentional walk to Teahen to get to Sweeney the big blow in the game so far as Sweeney unloaded the bases with a double. Also, Gordon another 2 for 4 tonight.

SI

quote from Clemens about Gomez taking a homerun away from the yankees


What a punk

They would have needed more than just the fan. They would have needed an idiot umpire.

Man, people look for any excuse to trash Clemens. I'd be highly surprised if Clemens making a serious statement there and not joking around.

With Giambi....don't people think the public has kinda forgiven him? He at least has some courage to apologize (while he never said it directly) and to at least call out MLB. I really get the impression MLB wants him to shut the heck up and this is their threat. Sadly, it'll backfire because the public doesn't care to nail Giambi. They want Bonds...plain and simple.

because Clamens is a hired gun baby. even if it was a joke instead if complementing the kid on a nice play or the opposing pitcher on a great game he comes off as the prick he is.

I agree. No big Clemens fans myself, and there are plenty of things to talk about when not liking this guy, but this isn't one of them. Even if it wasn't a joke, I don't see it as anything, and I think it almost certainly was.

I don't think that the public was ever upset with Giambi at all. However if they were, they probably stopped when fans (Yankee and others) voted him Comeback Player of the Year.

hey , the White Sox won! that hasn't happened in a while. I can smile today :D

ahh, and Buehrle seems to have turned around from last season (fluke?) hes been a very consistent starter his entire career, but last year scared the crap out of me.

lol, that Ichiro quote is funny.

Don't worry, all signs point to him getting traded in a month, so if anything, he's simply increasing his trade value.

hopefully to the Mets

Yea, seems to me he may get traded, But I would sign him long term. And from what he's said, he wants to stay.

So the Cubs are getting the asses handed to them right now 9-1 against the Padres. With everything that went on yesterday,what are the chances of one of the Padres get one up and in?

Royals just need to change league and they'll do better ;)

2 of 3 against the Phils, Cards, and Marlins over the past 10 days.

SI

Maybe he should join the vagina society where all you should do is complement your peers. He made a joke, get over it baby. There are lots of hired guns, they're called free agents.

You're so getting swept starting tomorrow. :p

Good run for the Royals SI.

Oh, and I'm coming for you in the FOFC fantasy baseball league!

If we could go 3-3 this week, I would be ecstatic. Our pitching matchups in the St Louis series, well, suck. Odalis got beaten up last week in his showdown with Wainright. Elarton has looked like utter crap since coming off the DL but then again Wells hasn't done much better, still edge to the Cards. Then I like our chances with Meche vs Looper but Looper is either really good or godawful and with Meche's run support luck, it'll be the former.

SI

Although these injuries we keep picking up concern me, I am pretty stoked with how the Angels are playing. They may be playing better over the past month and a half than any team in baseball.

Wells sucks.

So at what point does Leo Mazzone completely regret leaving Atlanta? He not only has hurt his legacy by the fact that the Orioles pitchers haven't really gotten any better, at least collectively, since he joined the team last year, but the main reason he took the job in the first place - manager Sam Perlozzo, his life-long friend - is about to go bye-bye. Talk about being in a crappy situation with no end in sight.

the guys been a scumbag since the day he threw a sawed off bat at Piazza and he'll never get an ounce of respect from me. Especially since he tried to play it off like he had the ball.

And real classy calling me a baby, sorry I have my opinion and your response is to call me names.

:yawn: First off, Piazza is the king pussy of baseball. If anyone needs a bat thrown at him, it's fairy Mike. Anyway, he's done about 5000x more for baseball than Piazza and most players. He's competitive, sometimes it gets the better of him. He didn't hit fairy Mike, just tried to intimidate. What he did is no worse than what Lee did the other day, or hundereds of players do each season. As for the incident you were lambasting, it was nothing, probably less than nothing. A joke, no more no less. If he had decided to play for the Mets, you'd be singing his praise right now. And if anyone should know hired guns, it's the Mets.

If you think I was calling you names, you only need to go back to your earlier post...


I was poking fun at that. I'm not a name caller, Jersey boy :)

You're kidding right? Throwing a foreign object at somebody running to first is the same as throwing a punch at a guy you're squared off with? I do love the "he's competitive, sometimes it gets the better of him." Easily one of the worst lines of thought I've ever heard when it comes to people making excuses for people. He knew exactly what he was doing and was probably more angry with himself for missing than he was for doing it in the first place.

I'm not a Clemens fan, and will dispute the fact that his "hired gun" status is a bit different from that of other free agents, but the simple fact there is teams are obviously willing to put up with the BS that he demands, so I chalk that up to the ever growing pile of crap that is professional baseball.

But not even touching on your name calling of Piazza (who's place in baseball's history could be argued to be relatively high on the catcher's list, but that's a different thread), the very comparisons you're trying to raise are flawed and well, pretty much awful. What Clemens said the other day, whether in jest or not (never saw footage of it so very hard to know) was in poor taste, but again, nothing new for him.

And....

Perlozzo is GONE.

This would be interesting...



BOSTON - The Giants have not been sellers at the July 31 trade deadline during Brian Sabean's decade-long tenure, but with the club 10 games out and firmly in last place in the division, the general manager conceded that he could be forced into that mode.

While it's unlikely the Giants will take the extraordinary step of trading Barry Bonds, Sabean would not dismiss the possibility either.

"I don't know if there is (a chance), because of all the factors involved," Sabean said. "And it wouldn't be my decision unilaterally. So it's a complicated question and it's not a simple answer."

Should've happened long ago.

Not that I expect it to happpen but I would love to see the reaction of the fans of a contending team who traded for Bonds!

I'd rank throwing a bit of a broken bat a few feet away from somebody a little lower on the list from the headhunting stuff we see out there. I'm also one who thinks the whole, sliding 5 feet out of the line with the intention of breaking up a DP is worse as well, since the intent may not be directly to injure, but that's the purpose it serves. My point was, there's alot worse out there than the miniscule bat incident, which was pretty stupid and inexcusable. Harp on him for making a joke after a bad pitching, but really it's not in poor taste...people are saying much worse without jest.

Mike Piazza was a great hitter. He was also a selfish, ego-centric moron who couldn't throw out a runner, yet demanded to be behind the dish so he could break batting records. Bashing the "selfishness" of Clemens while talking about the greats of a shitty defensive DH who wouldn't put the team first is silly.

Anywho, Clemens will continue to pitch on the terms he's earned, and if he goes to your team, you'll talk about how great he is :p

"High-ranking sources have told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney that Andy MacPhail has reached an agreement to be the club's chief operating officer, and the Orioles also were arranging a meeting with Joe Girardi."

Dave Trembley will be the interim manager.

Didn't Girardi win NL Manager of the Year last year? What took so long for someone to hire him? Was it because he demands a lot of control over the team too (or something like that)?

You can stick that right back in your mouth. I'm a Jays fan and wasn't all that happy when we got him and certainly never shouted his praises even then when I could stand him a whole lot more than I can now.

Great pitcher, yes, great person, no, and the latter to me is always more important which is a luxury I have as a fan.

While Perlozzo is gone, I don't think Mazzone has hurt his legacy as much as believed. The starting pitching is pretty damned good in Baltimore, although the winning percentages don't show it. Bedard has an ERA+ of 121. Guthrie is at 171. Loewen has been at 124 so far, and even Trachsel is doing good at 112. Cabrera is really the only one who has crashed and burned.

I don't know if it's a control issue (I can't remember what sparked the fight with the Marlins owner last year), but I always get the impression Girardi is waiting for the "perfect job" to come along. He was a name getting thrown about before this season for if the Yankees decided to get rid of Torre, and also a name with the Cubbies if I remember correctly...at the time, he was also being pursued by the Nats, and said that he wasn't necessarily itching to jump right back in or something like that. At the time, anyway, I got the distinct impression he was waiting for his dream job to be offered to him.

/tk

Justin (Atlanta, GA): Buster, what's goping to happen to Mazzone in Baltimore? Is he out, too?

Buster Olney: Justin: Excellent, excellent question, because of the relationship between Leo and Sam. If I had to guess -- I think there is no chance Leo is the O's pitching coach by October 1, and some chance he leaves the team within the next 72 hours. But that is all pure speculation on my part. It's a fascinating sidebar to all of this.

I'll be fine with Scott McGregor as the PC if Mazzone leaves. Terry Crowley needs to be fired as well.

He was manager of the year last year, but that doesn't mean much. From what I read, his players didn't care for him, he's a micromanager, and he doesn't communicate well.

He also sent Josh Johnson out to pitch again after an extended rain delay. Johnson then got injured and is actually making his first start since that day today. That alone is grounds to fire a manager, IMO.

The Marlins did better than people expected last year, but it had little to do with anything Girardi did. Guys like Uggla, Willingham, and Ramirez have been better than expected and their young pitchers stepped in and did pretty well.

A guy on a message board for the O's I visit has an inside contact within the organization and had this to say:

"Just got a call back. It's like a zoo in the Warehouse. To the best of my contacts knowledge Mazzone is staying on at this time. He set to leave on this afternoon flight to California. He did say Mazzone looked real pissed."

Also just saw this:

Buster Olney: (1:03 PM ET ) Gene: I think that there is an excellent chance that there will be a window of opportunity in which Andy MacPhail will be given the authority to change this organization -- at least two years. Just got off the phone with a rival exec who said that knowing Andy, he can't imagine that MacPhail took the job without having strong assurances that he will have total control of the O's (as much control as you can have, while working for an owner...) I suspect that Peter Angelos will be deferential, for at least a couple of years...

I guess I should have realized something was wrong when Jason Schmidt signed for 3 years and $47M and the Giants didn't attempt to keep him. Seemed strange at the time, and we all thought the Dodgers got a steal. But now he's back on the DL for the second time this year. Something tells me he won't be back.

Maybe they should just get rid of the manager and let everyone just do their own thing. :rolleyes:

Do you have a problemw with what I wrote there or are you refering back to my feelings about managers several pages back?

Do you think Girardi was a good manager? He played russian roulette with one of the top young pitchers in the organization and lost. The guy has been out since early August of last year because Girardi did something that anyone thats ever watched baseball would know better than to do. Like I said, that alone is grounds to fire a manager.

He also had well publicised issues with upper management and after he was fired not a single person in the organization stepped up to defend him.

So exactly what made this guy manager of the year worthy or even a good manager to begin with? Please enlighten me with more than an eyeroll.

I just don't agree with you about managers. They are effective.

They are effective. The question is how effective relative to the talent level of the players they have - how many games do very good and very bad managers add or subtract from the team's win/loss column?

From available, measurable evidence, there's good reason to think that managers generally don't have a major influence on their team's results.

The Tigers need to overpay for a couple of relievers. Fast. Todd Jones is who we thought he was.

Agreed on all counts. I thought that was the steal of the winter but it just hasn't been the case. All those miles finally caught up with him.

SI

Time to send Lincecum back to AAA.

He's really hit a wall. I'm leaning towards them giving him one more start....but I dunno at this point.

Well, Cards smack around Scott Elarton, possibly knocking him out of the rotation, evening up the Cards/Royals series at 1-1. I gotta say I like the Royals chances tomorrow night with Meche against former Royals middle reliever Todd Wellemeyer but the Royals aren't good enough to be overconfident and win. A pair of series wins against St Louis would be oh-so-sweet but even 3-3 of for the season would be acceptable.

SI

That sure was nice of the Pads to spot Peavy a 3 run lead so I can pretty much go to sleep this early knowing he'll either get a win or no decision for my fantasy team ;)

SI

No way - he's striking out more than a batter an inning, even now. Sending him back to AAA with hitters who can't hit his secondary stuff will do what exactly?

I dunno..work on mechanics to get his walks down, maybe? Besides that, I really haven't any idea, other than it just seems like the thing to do...

His BABIP was around .270 coming into today, so it actually could be worse. The 6 homers allowed and walk totals are concerning, but the 'mechanics expert' at baseball think factory actually liked Lincecum's mechanics and didn't really see anything wrong with them.

There was a big concern when he was drafted about how heavily he was worked in college. He'd have starts in the 150-180 pitches thrown range. Everything I had read on him had him big league ready at the start of the year, but the pitch counts and mileage were a big red flag on him.

I'd probably give him a couple starts and see if its something he can work out at the big league level. If not, AAA may be the only option.

If the Giants were anywhere near contenders I would say send him down. But why not let him learn at the big league level?

The extent to which he dominated AAA hitters suggests there really isn't anything left for him to prove there. And his results with the Giants, while obviously not particularly good in terms of run prevention, in other ways aren't that bad. As pointed out, he's still missing a lot of bats, and he's not getting hit around too badly. His biggest problem (and the one that most concerned me about him as a prospect from his days at the UW) is his walk rate. It's not awful, but he is walking enough guys that when is giving up hits, there's a lot of extra damage.

You don't want him to damage his confidence, so if he continues to string together a number of rough outings it might be prudent to send him back to AAA for a few starts to regain some confidence and to work on his control issues. Still, it's not like the Giants are going to make the playoffs this year, so it wouldn't be so bad to let him work things out at the MLB level.

Unless he's out of whack mentally or mechanically, Lincecum should stay up. He's not only a rookie, but he's pitching for a crappy team. Go look at Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz's first year stats while playing for crummy teams. And this guy's likely not going to be in their league. It's hard enough being a rookie and having hitter make adjustments on you; it's even worse when your team sucks and winning is a challenge even under normal circumstances. Maybe they should limit his innings, but otherwise I say let him pitch.

In other AAA phenom news, Homer Bailey dominated the A's last night. Finally, a reason for us Reds fans to get excited.

I think Girardi mainly benefitted from the low standard everyone set for the team last year. Manny Acta is getting similar love this year because people thought they'd challenge the 1962 Mets. The Marlins weren't considered THAT bad last year going into the season, but certainly no one thought they would be in the WC race as late as they were. And Girardi was the main beneficiary of the media/fan reaction to their season.

Now that we're in the middle of the next season, it's instructive to look at how the Marlins are performing. They aren't the surprise team anymore, so Gonzalez's "contributions" to the team aren't getting trumpeted, but it's interesting to note that as of right now, the Marlins are on pace for a 76 win season - and don't appear to have a dysfunctional manager/front office situation. They won 78 under Girardi last year. They're 5.5 GB of the Mets, and 7 GB of the WC leader as of this morning.

I think it's time to re-think Girardi's season last year. Did he make that much difference, or did he have a bunch of very good players who were so young and unproven that no one gave them a chance to compete? When you couple the talent with the off-field issues, I'm not sure he did something another manager couldn't have done with the same team. Well, he did one thing that probably no other manager would have done - he got himself fired. But as far as team performance, maybe this team was never a 90+ loss team, regardless of who the manager was.

Chicago Cubs catcher Michael Barrett was traded to the San Diego Padres on Wednesday, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney.

In return the Cubs will receive backup catcher Rob Bowen, a minor league pitcher and cash considerations, Olney reported.

I think that's the crux. Plenty of managers get accolades for teams that perform well because of young players, not by any special managerial skill. Some managers actually can turn a franchise around... but some just take credit for talent they got from their GMs.

I do not get this one at all. Are the Cubs giving up on the season already?

Bowen has value as a backup catcher, but now the Cubs have two backups and no one really capable of starting. The minor leaguer they got is Kyler Burke, who's one of those tools guys that Hendry loves. But he hit around .210 with no power in rookie ball last year and is doing the same in low-A this year.

Maybe not "giving up on the season" but instead "giving up on a catcher who can't get along with the pitching staff."

Time to send Zito back to AAA.

As bad a contract as it is for the Giants, I at least thought they were going to get 1-3 years of above-average pitching from Zito, based solely on the league change and park he pitches in. That he's so bad so early...he has a chance to join company with Mike Hampton for worst contracts ever.

I hated that goddamn contract from day one, and this is not making me feel better.

Zito isn't horrible, but that contract was pretty dumb.

It doesn't help that he is facing the buzzsaw lineup known as the Milwaukee Brewers. A lineup that is almost completly homegrown and stocked to the brim for years to come.

The Giants climb out of their grave to pull it to 6-5, and then the ump blows a call to end the inning.

Except that if Frandsen stops at third instead of being a moron, I say he scores on that play to tie the game. So while it may be a blown call, the Giants weren't exactly helping themselves either.

One other note on Lincecum - his current rate of stranding only 55% of baserunners is quite low compared to the average pitcher. It's possible there's enough of a difference in the quality of his pitches and his command from the stretch vs. the windup that this accounts for the low number, but it's more likely that he's simply suffering some bad luck and as that number regresses back toward the mean his ERA will improve.

He still needs to work on reducing his walks and improving his strikeout to walk ratio.

Just looked up Lincecum on mlb.com... I'm only a year older than him, but he sure looks really young. Not Danny Graves young, but still looks like a teen.

I wish the Reds would pick up the damn phone when KT calls.

I realize most of you were probably asleep by the time the game ended, but did any of you find a way to catch the Angels-Astros on Monday night? That was one hell of a game. And Figgins did something Monday that has only been done two other times in major league baseball history, from what I understand.