My urchin saw raiders spending money on night 1, and he spent it on something i dont think a bad guy would spend it on as per the intial rules.

That should read I spent money on the urchin day 1, not night 0 sorry. Night 0 I didnt do anything as I saved money for the urchin.

Blade, you indicated that you had a role that is not on the main page?

Alan, maybe someone else can save you here...but my bid for the urchin is a day action and my 10 shillings bid was placed on day 1 before the lynch deadline. Saying you did it on night 0 is a very bad slip-up in my mind :eek:

grrrr, i hate you and catching your slip-ups...though it was made, now im less sure of it

You might have missed it since it was at the top of a new page, I corrected myself there.

It is a day action, and I even said so the day I did it. Part of my trust in path was he was one of the first to mention the day action, and I was the first to say I did the day action of hiring the urchin. Then I was the first to come back and say mine failed due to being overbid (before you stated getting yours).

I'm pretty sure if Im lying now that would have been amazing of me to guess all of that info at the time. :)

Yes, and no...it would fall under the category of one of the good roles i suppose, but from what the role entails it is quite unique. It comes with restrictions to my voluntary actions, but also a side involuntary action that despite here to fore being rather useless might one day be helpful.

Like I said.. if I had known that hiring an urchin was a day time activity before anyone else said.. and known that someone outbid my 7 shillings before anyone else said.. without having actually tried that.. it would be the most amazing WW move ever.. or I would have to be an urchin myself (which I am not).

Can you explain then if you on night 0 didnt spend your money, and on night 1 got robbed of your gold, when you went to the opium den and how you afforded the price on the only other available night(day 2?) If you got robbed, how did you make the cash with your 3 shilling income to afford the opium den on night 2?

I presume you are intentionally omitting a mention of what it was spent on because you think that information is best not spread around?

VOTE ALAN T

Something in this post is a lie, its time for you to die

I have not been as forthcoming as i indicated, and if you will permit me i think it just allowed me to catch Alan T in a lie..but yes, i think it best if the rest of my urchin info stays as it is for now

That's entirely fair. Far be it from me, who has been irate at others for questioning my exercise of discretion, to criticize you for doing the same. :)

Blade, I would really like to understand what I witnessed last night. If it makes sense, it will buy a great deal of trust going forward.

My worry is that right now I have you spending a small fortune to hire an urchin on Day 1, who gives you information on Tyrith's death that points towards a prostitute as the only person in the district - information that was clearly incorrect. That was supposed to consume all of your money, but it did not. You then have additional urchin interactions - seeing RA spend money, for example.

Now, there is a role that has heavy ties to urchins and that role is included under the list of bad guys in this game ... which implies that we should eliminating Fagin as part of our victory conditions.

I'm not lying at all. I would assume you would know when you spend money on an urchin as a day action, if it fails, you dont find out until the end of that night.

Anyone who has tried to hire an urchin and failed can tell you that Blade.

Night 0, I did nothing. I started with 10 shillings.
Day 1, spent 7 on hiring an urchin, and 5 on the opium den (leaving 1 spare shilling of the 13 I had).
End of night 1, I got my opium den PM which I shared with everyone at the time, and found out I had failed to hire an urchin as well as being robbed.

Im glad you are pressing me here, I am really sure others will come to my aid.

Do you have anyone who will vouch for you? I was hoping to draw someone in a trap, and maybe you are the bad guy who I trapped.

hoops, I am 100% certain that Blade is not Fagin.

I did not spend 10 gold on day 1 for the urchin, and barkeep was not the only person the urchin saw in the district. I lied about both for different reasons. The first to trap a bad guy into doing what Alan has just done(lie about placing a bid, which i now know he did not) and the latter to protect raiders from the public eye.

You are putting together what I was putting together I think.

Saldana actually originally caught it but since then backed off having got a good feeling about Blade. For me the opposite happened that after I looked at it closely, I started putting alot more together and have called him for it. I still believe he is Faigin. He never explained how he was out at night after spending all of his money, and I am curious if anyone saw him out last night when he wouldnt have had any money to be out either (with the 2 shillings a day he makes).

If anyone has been lying, its Blade, and now his actions against me pretty close to seal it for me. Blade better come clean soon, or I have a feeling this will end badly for him if he is truly good.

I'll vouch for Blade.

Fair enough, MrW. If that is not the case, I'm trying to understand what other role has the finances associated with Blade's declared actions (multiple urchins) and would be engaged in the manner I observed last night.

MrW, do you still believe you saw the same event as me last night?

unvote Raiders Army
vote blade

Blade is lying here. If he says he knows I didnt place a bid for an urchin on day 1, its an outright lie. He's bad and I'll bet my life on it. There is no way he could know that as I did indeed place a bid and said so before anyone else even mentioned hiring urchins as an ability.

The reverse has happened. I trapped you...my winning bid for the urchin on day one was 6 shillings. You just said this:


Im sorry Alan, you just made a fatal mistake...

Let me guess, your urchin also saw me in the district with barkeep and tyrith that night?

If you placed a bid of 7 shillings i would not have won the urchin bid, as i only offered 6. Thats how i know your lying alan.

you would not have beaten my bid with 6 shillings.

I put an order in to have schmidty followed that night, and my bid was not taken and instead I was robbed.

If folks follow you on me, I insist everyone lynch Blade tommorrow after I turn up good, and dont let him weasel his way out of it. I'll turn up good, and for blade to say he knows stuff that he doesn't is a lie.

Im fine with going with a me vs you lynch tonight. I'm sure I have people who will vouch for me. Now answer my question about if Im the other person you saw with Barkeep and Tyrith that night.

Blade, help me to finish connecting the dots here - on Day 2 why would you have a vested interest in protecting Raiders by not mentioning him in Commercial and isolating Barkeep?

I bid 6 shillings for the urchin to spy on commercial, and it succeeded. You can lie all day long, but my elaborate trap ive been setting the past 36 hours has just clamped shut on you

ok. can someone give me a down and dirty synopsis so I can know where to vote in the next half hour? I have a pizza to eat too!

I'm not certain you saw the exact events I did, or got the exact identification of one of the persons involved that I did.

We have the same interpretation of Schmidty.

My current belief about who Blade is, is not inconsistent with anything that I am aware of him avowing so far.

I'll go back from saying that I'm 100% sure he's not Fagin. I'm merely somewhere in the 90 to 95% range.

Becuase if i shared what i saw it would give away his role..quite simply, its not my place or in the best interest of the good guys for me to do that to him.

Cool. I say I did try to hire an urchin and you say I don't. Everyone who believes you vote for me. and everyone who believes me vote for Blade.

Sounds like a fun time to me. If I get lynched, I want everyone to lynch Blade tommorrow as you will see I had no reason to lie. Wheras Blade has been lying this entire game.

Blade isn't going to get lynched tomorrow.

At this point, I'm going to trust his play. At worst, we force Alan into a reveal that I don't think is going to hurt us overmuch.

VOTE Alan T

No, were nowhere in my note left for me at my place of residence at the end of night 1 from the urchin

Dola, I should say, unless something remarkable happens tonight, Blade isn't going to get lynched tomorrow.

If Schmidty was around to discuss his version of events from last night I'm sure that could cinch my vote in one direction or the other.

DaddyTorgo - there is a showdown right now between Alan and Blade, with each convinced that the other is a bad guy. It revolves around money spent hiring an urchin during Day/Night 1. If you have to get a vote in right now you should cast it on one of those two guys. Only about 50 posts or so to read (recent stuff) to get the gist of the discussion.

Wow, usually blade vs alant fights are stupid but this is really interesting. One of the two are lying, but which one?

I hired one urchin for 6 shillings hoops, not multiple and not a fortune spent. It is the fact my bid of 6 worked and Alan is claiming his bid of 7 did not that forces me to say hes lying.

I don't have anything to reveal. Im the role that I said I was the entire game. I am a cooper (I didnt even know what a cooper was until this game and had to look it up). I am a normal Londoner.

I'll leave it up to others if they feel I am worth saving or not. I just say for the good people to keep track of people who push hardest for my lynch. I assure you I will end up being good and you will know who to lynch tommorrow.

For now, I'll side with the player who has someone vouching for him in Blade. I've actually seen Blade at night as well, but have not witnessed Alan out and about, which is a small strike against him.

I'm hoping Schmidty can come in and clear up his meeting last night to help cement this vote.

VOTE ALAN T

Alan, if you're a victim of misleading circumstance, then I truly regret the result of our actions. However, I think the circumstances dictate the action.

Normally I would say me being an ordinary villager it doesnt matter if you lose me or not. But I hate seeing Blade fool the rest of you big time.

I also think a run away vote would be very unhelpful. I think you all should keep it a close vote, and keep track of who is willing to put their life on the line to swear I am a bad guy.

I am who I say I am.

I'm fairly certain that Blade is not intentionally misleading us. It's possible that the circumstances are misleading him, but given who I think he is, he has no reason (aside from shockingly loose play) to concoct a story to try to put you on the block.

MrW, any information you feel like you can reveal about your confidence in Blade would definitely be appreciated.

I have more trust in Blade to this point than Alan, so for now I'm going to have to vote with him.

VOTE ALAN T

It is day 3, isn't it?

I disagree, and think its very fishy for you to start your backtracking before Im even lynched since you know I will end up good. Its interesting to me that three of the people who have had no one vouch for them (Mr.W, St.Cronin and Blade) are the ones leading the charge.

This isnt a victim of circumstance at all. I dont mind dying, but I think you should keep it close so people are held accountable for their actions. I don't hold hoops vote against him as I feel pretty confident he is good. The rest of you however are fair game as far as I am concerned.

Alan, as a bad guy a 1-1 is a very bad idea for me. Much like yesterday when i went after lathum with hoops, im serving the side of good.

Secondly, asking us to keep it close just makes me even more sure. Since you wont back off of your 7 shilling claim, you must die

Well, we get to find out after the game if hes a good guy on why he says he knows for sure that I didnt try to get an urchin when I did. But using a KISS philosophy, I find it highly more likely I know the real reason for someone saying I didnt do something that I did.

Why dont you want it close? so your fellow bad guys will be caught out in the open for who they are?

If you landslide on me, and I turn up good, all you know is Blade lied. If you keep it close, you get to find out who is going to go out of their way to condemn a good person and you have Blade + someone else.

I think anything more would essentially be a full reveal, which I am only willing to do if he's in imminent danger.

I will say this, whether it leads to people trusting me more or less. I can only carry 10 gold at a time. I can carry no more then that at any time. It doesnt damn you, but it proves we at least dont have the same role which makes me happier with my vote.

I trust Alant for some reason. But Blade has somebody vouching for him. So unless Blade and his voucher are bad most people are going ot vote for Alant. I dont think I want to vote for either one.

vote raiders army

I'm stuck in a bad place. Nearly everything Alan has said about his role matches up with me. I'm nearly 100% sure we started with the same role. I don't have much time, but I have some thinking to do. I think either Alan or Blade has been converted.

Just to get my full night 1 in the open since its at question. I cant quote my PM so will just give the highlights.

I go to the opium den and settle down on the couch.
My opium induced dream is a very funny reference to the Atlanta Braves which is my favorite baseball team and Chief knows that. I actually made jokes about it in this game 2 different times just giving Chief a hard time about how he put it in my PM.

I wake up and go home.

I find my bribe untaken.

I was told urchins found other missions more lucrative.

I am told even worse, I was burglarized.

The burglar missed my money pouch near the door step but didnt miss much inside.



There, thats my night 1. Care to retract your statement Blade?

Blade, are you certain that you were bidding against Alan for the services of the urchin?

Why would i? You say you bid 7, i won the bidding with a bid of 6. Then, while maybe the normal villagers can carry more, i can only carry 10 shillings at a time while you claim to have had 13. What about your story would make me want to change?

W, i did go looking for a hooker on night 0, but didnt find one in the 2 areas i looked...since then i stayed home on night 1 to save money, and stayed home again, since of the 3 kills on night one, only the werewolf seems to come to your house to kill you...i thought it was the best way to stay alive...the other kills both happened in the streets

I placed a bid of 6 shillings for the urchin on day 1. Unless someone else can come forward and say they placed a bid of 8 or more and got a second urchin on day one but never told us until now(which even if they do i will be skeptical), i believe i bid against alan just as i did saldana and i think LSG. Actually, i find it more likely alan didnt bid, as i see no reason for him to say he bid 7 and stand by it if he bid 6 or less. Saldana bet 6, so i beat most likely by a tie-breaker. I dont really see a scenario where he bid 7 and lost to me for an urchin. And i dont think their are more then one urchins running around we can bribe, as i dont think its a character in the game.

Just wondering how tightly you are wanting to put the noose around your neck is all. I dont have anything in my PM limiting me to 10 shillings either. I started out with 10 shillings or half a pound.

The only warning i get is to not horde my money since some criminal denizens have a nose for unspent money and I could get burglarized (which I did).

Mr. W quick. I have 5 minutes b/f I have to go to work. Are you sure that Blade wasn't turned last night? If conversions are in the game him and hoops and the prostitutes out in the open were the top candidates for conversion last night.

ok. almost out of time on my break so gotta make this quick. it seems that blade's arguments have more evidence behind them. I should be home in time to change last minute if necessary. apologies I can't bold on my phone


VOTE ALANT

back to work for me

.....I need to know this b/f I vote.....

I laugh at the word evidence :)

dubb, while I can't completely rule out Blade getting turned, I think it's highly unlikely for the role that I think he holds.

Well I'm going to walk back to the hotel and maybe get some dinner. I'll likely be away for an hour or so I guess. I doubt Im needed around for a bit anyways. I've said all i can, and don't have any other special role or anything great to reveal.

All thats left for me is to sit back in the old "You're lying"... "No! you're lying" back and forth with Blade the rest of the night. Blade picked someone who obviously has no ability to know anything about him at night to do this with for a reason. I feel confident I've put out enough to keep those who are good from voting for me. The only ones left you know who to go after tommorrow :)

I'll be back later to see how Blade is squirming as more people show up :)

Well, I think Alan's points about his role have jived more with me than what Blade has said this game. That puts Alan further up my trust list than Blade in the first place. While I have no say in the whole urchin bidding business, I have no clue who bidded what, I think that is between the two of them.

If you can't rule out blade being turned I'm going to have to side with Alan. No matter how unlikely it is(again, I have no clue what role you think Blade has, I had him down as a slightly irregular londener)

With all that said I must

VOTE BLADE6119

I think he was one of, if not the top suspect for conversion last night. And with that I am out for the night. Lunch time is over, I'll will be back a little after 10PM est when I get off work. If Alan ends up getting lynched I hope I'm wrong about him, but I still think he is playing with the same cards I myself have been dealt.

One question. Might it be possible for a particular role to take precedence over a bid amount?

My thinking is along this line: Blade claims to have an unlisted role (and that possibility does exist in the rules). He says it is one that the title might make one doubt his allegiance. What if it was something that tangentially related to the urchins? Maybe then if he places a bid it gets precedence over a common Londoner.

I'm trying to come up with an explanation where they're both good and neither is lying. That's the best I can think of right now.

Dubb, I can't 100% rule out Blade being converted but I can provide a good reason for why he is unlikely to have been converted - at least last night.

I'll post it if we are at a point during the voting where it becomes necessary to do so. For now I'm trying to allow people some secrets.

My initial role PM describes the urchin as a capitalist, explaining he will only undertake a mission that is lucrative to him. So i see no reason for him to accept my 6 over Alan's 7.

And no, i have no connection to the urchins in town

Alan T - Daddy Torgo, Blade, Cronin, Mr. W, Hoopsguy, Path

Blade - AlanT, Dubb

Raiders Army - LSG

Am i missing anything?

okay well i sat here and thought about it and decided that if i trust alant, why not vote for blade? I dont want to have a wasted vote tonight

vote blade

And if no one swapps off of alan, we have our 6 needed for lynch, regardless of 16 population or 17 if izulde counts while in jail.

Speaking of which:

VOTE NO LYNCH IZULDE

You have to unvote raiders then vote me LSG, please corrrect that

At this point, I'm very interested in seeing if Raiders Army has anything to add to the conversation... either about Blade vs. Alan, or about Izulde being in the clink.

Blade, we've got enough to lynch, but we do need to be concerned about who wins the vote. It doesn't do any good to have six on someone else if there's seven on you. :)

I dont expect us to stay at 6, so im not really all that worried. Im much more interested in watching from here on out who falls where(and LSG, much more then dubby). If nothing changes between now and then, LSG is my vote tomorrow.

OK, maybe not the urchins (JE's role kind of covered that anyway). But without revealing, is there the possibility that your role has some sort of prestige attached to it that might make a bid from you more attractive than one from a common Londoner, even if it was slightly less?

Well, blade and alan have said things that match my first PM, so it's really difficult for me to choose which one to vote for.

Some have talked about blade possibly getting converted, but isn't it a possibility that the one that got converted was alan? I mean, he keeps quoting the first PM which a role a lot of us have, but someone refresh my memory on what he did last night because I don't remember right off the bat.

dola,

How are the votes looking? I've been really lazy and haven't kept track. Thx in advance.

I would think my name is even less recognizable to the urchins then even the fellow commoners of london. I am not someone of prestige, as i come from rather humble means and have morals to reflect as such.

I've been scanning through the last 700 or so posts looking to see if anyone previously made a claim to have spent 7+ shillings - if I had found it I would have switched my vote from Alan to Blade. But I haven't been able to find anything along those lines.

Also, I've asked a couple of times for some explanation of the events I saw around Schmidty last night and have not gotten an answer. This makes me nervous, as there are multiple people who could potentially address this.

Isnt it quite possible those people dont want to address this? I have held things back for purposes of helping good all throughout, is it not possible the people you want to answer your questions are doing the same?

Hoops, I would have remembered something like that because I was interested in how much an urchin could be hired for. When Blade mentioned he paid 10 shillings, I figured that was something I didn't want to pursue... it's a little much for me.

If they had i would have reacted then. One other person, saldana i think, claimed a bid of 6 i believe. I just assumed i won a tie-breaker and moved about my business.

this is a tough call....alan has had my back all day, but right now its a question of whether we believe blade or not about the 6 shillings....i cant see blade making a 1 for 1 trade with this much game left, so as much as it bothers me to do this

vote alant

thats correct...i bid 6 on day 1 and was told that the urchins went for a better offer.

dola, i was not told what the offer was, but when blade said 10 the next day, i decided to stay home so i would have 13 to use the next time i put in a bid....which by the way, was for tonight, so i hopefully will have some info for the good of the town tomorrow.

Sure, but since we are looking at a Blade/Alan showdown I would like to understand the variables. And understanding this would make me a LOT more comfortable with my decision. I'm not sure what to make of the fact that 3-4 people who could talk about it are choosing not to do so.

I'm asking for answers to this now. I'll be demanding answers if Alan turns out to be a bad lynch.

As I already said, I feel like any further information than I've already offered is essentially a full role reveal, and I'm not willing to do that under the current circumstances.

I'm back and about to order room service. I actually figured Blade would have backpeddled some by now or something. Surely if he is bad, why would he pursue me on this.

I've told folks the truth, I put in my order to the urchin to follow Schmidty that night. I really want to see Blade lynched if I die here today, but Im not sure how much of that is just spite out of Blade not being reasonable here or lying about something or I dont know what.

If Blade is actually telling the truth, then I have no idea why my order to have Schmidty followed wasnt taken unless Schmidty was the urchin I actually was trying to bribe.

It looks like people are deadset on lynching me which is fine, I guess my question to you all is the following:

What do you learn when I turn up good? Who do you go after? Are you willing to go after Blade tommorrow?

Not trying to squirm out, just wondering if chief is hinting at this...either way he needs to die

Is this going to be your story when I turn up good? THat i have a role that clouds things?

No, i wont need that at all..ive got all the evidence i need to prove im on the side of good, just talking while we await your doom

Well while we're talking to await my doom.. I would love to hear what people's plan will be tommorrow after my lynch reveals I am good. You seem very confident you'll stay safe, confident enough to make this play and flat out say I'm lying about my action from the other day. This intrigues me alot since I often can map things out, but I really am puzzled by what your play here is. I don't understand why you are putting yourself on the line just to lynch a common londoner.

If you turn up good, it would take some extraordinary info to make me not vote Blade tomorrow.

Its the only lie i have caught anyone in all game, what reason do i have to believe your a common londoner?

Besides, all my death will bring is fact to my claims

This made me mad. He didn't lie just to protect raiders. He lied to incriminate me. Let's not forget until I had a calvacade of people come forward to vouch for me, the reason I was trying not to do a hard defense since I hoped the vote simply wouldn't pick up much steam, I was set to be lynched nearly exclusively because of what Blade said.

Then there is Alan. For whatever reason Alan tried hard to pretend he hadn't been to a prostitue. I guess I just wasn't that good. For whatever reason he told me about his rounders dream. The whole thing was strange and was very different than the flavor I've gotten on my 3 other visits (hoops is right that I had two clients last night).

Blade is all happy like over his catching of Alan in a supposed lie, but his lie over the murder situation makes me uneasy to say the least. I'm around until lynch, but at this point and time I would cast my vote against Blade rather than Alan perhaps over his own intentionally misleading attempt to get me killed.

I probably distrust Alan more than I trust him, but I like having him in the game, so probably wouldn't vote for him unless he got fingered. He does a good job of throwing ideas out and keeping the lines of communication open.

I wish I didn't have to leave but I do. I'll be away until after lynch.