That's poetry right there.

At an absolute minimum, even if a game doesn't mimic what you would expect in real life that it at least represents accurately what is contained in the sim engine. If a QB is 1 - 100 for 50 yards and with 1 TD.. I'd expect him to have a 1% completion percentage, average of 50.0 yards per completion and a long pass of 50 yards.. .not a long of 74 yards, 5% completion rate and 6 tds listed.

Those types of issues are much more different than say too many 2000 yards rushers. If you can't get the basics right, then I have to assume that there is very little that is right in the game. That is what is the main difference in Jim's first effort vs Maximum Football..

Exactly. That's why I broke it down and said I want to see results from individual games even if you're going to pimp this as for individual games, or seasons. Let's break it down then. Let's see what it looks like for an individual game.

There was a time when I doubted this thread had the juice to get to 100 pages.

I wonder what Tom Brady's stats would look like in M-F?

320 passes attempted, 441 passes completed, 461 touchdowns, 320 interceptions, 0 sacks for 517 yards, -8,404 yards passing.

that looks about right, but I'm pretty sure there would be some decimals somewhere in there, like 320.2345 passes attempted and 320.452466545845 interceptions.

FM

I'm really hoping Marauders produces some screen shots of stats that are from a "real" build. The comedic factor would be huge.

That's what gets me. Some of these things are the most basic of calculations that could be accomplished on a, ahem, 'spreadsheet.' The fact that someone has not (or cannot) take the time to link stats like attempts and completions to provide an accurate calculation of completion percentage - aside from whether the numbers make sense in a football context - absolutely baffles me. Some of the stats - given the completions, yards, and longest passes - are mathematically impossible, let alone remotely realistic for a football game.

*shakes head*

Don't you get it? It's cause the stats are in 3d! The longest pass stat reflects not the yardage gained on the field, but the actual distance travelled by the ball through the air! Daivd is a genius! :eek:

My guess is he's frantically trying to find a sorting method in the stats that only show halfway normal ones.

Hmm... remember the one site that translated regular text into AOL-ized text? Someone should make a similar thing, but instead comverting football stats into M-F stats.

I wasn't aware of the very first release of FOF, but every version since then has had a demo version available so customers could try out the game before they bought it. The "chance" these customers were taking in buying FOF was much less than the "chance" anyone takes in buying M-F, so whatever point you are trying to make here isn't working for me.

The fact is that Jim took on a project with a realistic scope and then delivered in a reasonable amount of time with a product that was, while not bug-free, a very stable game that delivered on the vast majority of the things it was designed to do.

Daivd on the other hand took on a project with a scope way beyond the reach of any sane 1-man programming outfit, not surprisingly has taken many years to release his product, and has shown repeatedly over the last year that his product really isn't very close to being something that delivers what it purports to represent.

If this was a hobby and Daivd was doing a free, public beta he would have a lot more support for his project on these boards (though to be sure, there would still be some ridiculing the problems in his builds). But the fact he decided to make a business out of this project means the bar was raised a great deal in terms of expectations. Very few of us here are interested in paying $50 to take part in a very extended beta-testing process, and that's what M-F is.

I'm praying for some new screenshots to start a new round of Photoshop Hell.

FOF1 did have a demo. I played it for about 10 minutes, and then ordered the game.

When I first saw FOF1 in my almost daily search for a football sim of this nature that wasn't just a replay sim, I about pissed myself.

When I played the demo, I pissed myself.

When I got the game, there wasn't a single bug on it that could stop me from blowing a text sim loving load all over the keyboard.

Since then, the game has improved significantly with each release, which have all been patched to near perfection within months of the release, as well as added to periodically just as a bonus.

And the game cost less than 40 dollars.

For someone like me, who dreamed of playing this exact game since about age 12, its been one of the most enjoyable games I have ever played. I have never felt let down in any way by any version of FOF that Jim has produced. Thats just the truth.

When I think about Jims game and the only thing that could make it better, I thnk about Tecmo Super Bowl + FOF. Thats what I think about.

If I ever saw a game that was reasonably close to completing that combination, say Madden + FOF or Football Pro + FOF, I would feel justified paying a large sum for it, because I would never stop playing it.

If I saw a reasonable facsimile for sale that at least came close to the general idea and was still playable, I would pay 50 dollars for it still, even if it wasn't exactly what I was looking for.

If I saw a game that seemed to insult the person who plays it by being so bad as to be unplayable, I wouldn't waste a cent on it. I think thats what I see with Maximum Football at the moment. I think thats why it upsets me that people are being sold this for more than the current gen versions of Madden cost.

I think thats why I am talking about it in a forum, so others arent suckered into wasting their money on something that isn't anywhere near delivering on a promise of that much value.

Just my opinion.

:D

and you people have the nerve to call me a troll?

the person comes here trying to extend an olive branch and open a channel of constructive communication and all you can do is try to be the guy who comes up with the next funny post so you can say you contributed to this thread.

this is ridiculous. way to represent this community. this stuff stopped being funny 70 pages ago. you guys wouldn't want to give this game a chance, cuz that would mean not being able to joke about the game anymore.

HA, there's being contrary, and there's being an idiot. Check where that line is

A good lot of posts have explained why we still won't buy a crap game sight unseen. Using posts and screenshots of current, ONGOING issues from the Matrix boards

Yeah, that's what's happening HA - all of us are simply trolling and making fun of the game and the comments from those associated with the game with no reason for doing so.

Yep, that's exactly what's going on. Yep.

It's funny when HA shows his sensitive side. Not as funny as his hero-f*ckin' side, but funny nonetheless.

Sounds like it's still got 30 pages over your body of work.

Marauders, I can get all of these people to stop making fun of you or Maximum Football if you pay me $50. Now I won't give you a demonstration of how that will happen. You just have to trust me.

If he knocked this bad boy down to $20 I would so buy it. I wanna play it, I wanna play it very badly.

I am always amazed at how this thread comes back from the dead.

I am starting to wonder if it is possible that Marauders got pissed off during beta testing because of a disagreement and is trying to indirectly influence the game. Because none of this makes any sense.

If he really wanted to get more consumers, he would be pitching the game on Game Tunnel, Octopus Overlords, Madden Mania, Blind Side Blitz, etc. I mean there are plenty of indie gaming/review sites he can go to, but instead decided to add it to this thead. Why not start a new thread?

And why aren't there any screenshots, game logs, etc?

I'm surprised HA has so much time to criticize us in this thread. Doesn't he have four FOF MP leagues to participate in before coming to FOFC?

Thats an interesting theory there. He hasnt really refuted much of what was said here, even the topics he's acknowledged as not being over the top flaming.

I can honestly say that I would give the game a shot, but I'd have to be convinced that the progression of the game will become dramatic & stable. Based on the amount of time it's taken, and the apparent current state of quirks/bugs, I'm not sure if that's even possible.

HA pronounced this thread 'dead' after about 10 pages or so, and several more times after that. it's no surprise he's ready to make the declaration again.

I did post the question a couple of pages back if designing option plays was available in the new Play Design System and if the hashmarks were widened for the 'American amature' league settings, both of which are crucial to recreating college football. Never got responded to, so I'm assuming no.

:D

HA: That's very big of a guy that created a false persona just to fuck around on the Matrix boards.

200 pages, here we come

And Mauraders still has yet to post any screenshots from the "supposed fix statistical engine". Maybe Daivd and him are busy photo-shopping something together.

I've been playing with the lastest release and my stats are pretty damn accurate...........

hahaha johneh, that took me a second

Note the dates in the post:

hxxp://www.truevision3d.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6377

I'm pulling out my credit card right now.

Hey...waitaminute....Doh!

This thread is like the Twilight Zone. There have got to be some alternate universes thing going on.

Mr. Marauder, please understand and acknowledge what this community of hard-core football simmers (and avid gamers and sports fans in general) is about. There are many here that know or at least follow the game of football. Most of us have, at one time or another, simulated a football game in one form or another. We have even gone beyond that to simulate football careers in one form or another. It is irrelevant if the results are displayed graphically, in a spreadsheet or something in between. We know what realistic results (within an expected variance) should be. This would be true for any sports. That is the foundation of a sports game. Anything else on top of that is gravy, sort of speak and if a game offers a "sandbox mode", fine, but it has to be able to generate realistic results each and every single time or else there would be no confidence in continuing to play or even to attempt to customize it. I am a GM-centric fast-simmer but even at that, I want to have the confidence that beneath the hood, everything makes sense and that in the end, each play, each game, each season and each career is right.

Dude...those stats are the ACTUAL 2006 stats, presumably from a mod.

Look em up here:
hxxp://www.nfl.com/players/playerindex/POS_QB

uhhh SteveMax...I think your sarcasm detector is broken:D

Oops...sorry, still new here. I dont know everybody yet.:o

quite alright. just figured i'd point that out to you fore some less friendly jumped down your throat. i did a double-take on it too for a second TBH.

Funny...the thought did cross my mind that it was a joke...but only because it looked like too many stats being accurately calculated. :D

Easiest is to assume everyone is sarcastic...

Alright, more for a lack of time than anything, I must admit I had not read nor posted in this thread. What a mistake. I thank Marauders for resurrecting it, since I decided what the hell was going on here. Well, all I can say is that little bit about maximum credit cards/negative interest had me laughing so silly that tears almost flowed. Then when the latest stats were shown and Craigsca opened with:

"You can't stop Hirshberg utilizing physics or other universal laws. You can only hope to contain him."

I figuratively peed my pants. And the fact the guy's name was Hirshberg just did it for me.

Anyways, carry on.

I'm literally glad that was figurative ;)

You're safe. I would think most folks around here at least did a double take before they caught it. The Maximum Football crowd, to their credit, figured it out immediately because the first thing they looked at was the graphics.

Okay, that's pretty damn funny.

Yeah yeah...wtf do you know about making a 3D graphic intensive football game? oh..wait...

;)

:D

See, the stats are still way off. J.P. Losman with a QB rating of 85 and a 62.5 completion percentage? Maybe in crazy land.