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bronconick 10-04-2024 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman (Post 3444498)
This administration did not divert money from the FEMA relief funds to use on immigrants. But there was another administration that did.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...order-n1046691


Every accusation is a confession.

RainMaker 10-04-2024 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444496)
They did go on record. There's plenty of quotes out there from House GOPers saying they won't increase FEMA funding. Funding bills start in the House and the President doesn't have the power to just make them vote on everything he wants.


He didn't formally propose it. He didn't declare it as emergency spending. He didn't spend months promoting it to the media and taking an hour in prime time to sell it to the publc. He didn't offer up Trump's immigration bill in return for its passage. He did do that with the foreign aid bill.

It's not all his fault but he did choose which spending was more important. It's fair to question why he cared more about bombing an orphanage halfway around the globe as opposed to making sure there was enough disaster relief and kids could eat in this country.

JPhillips 10-04-2024 08:39 PM

How exactly does that all work during the summer? Biden is willing to shut down the government over FEMA funds when there aren't any major disasters? He calls a prime time address to discuss FEMA funding when maybe 1% of the country gives a shit about it?

RainMaker 10-04-2024 08:56 PM

If no one cares about FEMA funds, there is nothing to be upset about. I'm just saying that when you prioritize spending for foreign countries over your own, don't be upset if people get mad about it.

RainMaker 10-04-2024 09:00 PM

There was some other stuff in the plan like money for child care, substance abuse programs, and access to the internet for low income families. Sure it's not as important as drone striking the World Central Kitchen, but I think would have been worth putting some effort into.

JPhillips 10-04-2024 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3444505)
If no one cares about FEMA funds, there is nothing to be upset about. I'm just saying that when you prioritize spending for foreign countries over your own, don't be upset if people get mad about it.


It's always the same disingenuous nonsense.

If only something had happened between summer and now that would make FEMA funds more important and more politically expedient.

Dutch 10-04-2024 09:43 PM

Blinken announces USA will send $156 million to Lebanon for their disaster of a state that allows Hezbollah to shoot thousands of rockets at Israeli farmers, women and kids because Hezbollah’s allies down south started a war by targeting, raping and killing thousands of Jewish kids.

Meanwhile, OUR allies literally wouldn’t mind if we transferred that money to FEMA instead since Mayokras said his agency is broke.

I know what you’re going to say already. Let me give it a go. ABC News will report that this money will save many lives in Beirut and they will gush over Blinken for looking out for Lebanese families in need. CBS News will say the move is ‘heroic’ though they will acknowledged they’re not sure why, exactly, NBC News will blast Trump for not sending that money 6 years ago, and MSNBC will say something about how helping people in North Carolina is a threat to democracy.

RainMaker 10-04-2024 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444510)
It's always the same disingenuous nonsense.

If only something had happened between summer and now that would make FEMA funds more important and more politically expedient.


Who could have predicted a hurricane hitting the United States?

cuervo72 10-04-2024 09:54 PM

Well, that’s it then I guess. No money for anything until every last house is rebuilt!

RainMaker 10-04-2024 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444511)
Blinken announces USA will send $156 million to Lebanon for their disaster of a state that allows Hezbollah to shoot thousands of rockets at Israeli farmers, women and kids because Hezbollah’s allies down south started a war by targeting, raping and killing thousands of Jewish kids.


The people targeting, raping, and killing kids aren't Hezbollah. And by farmers, you mean illegal settlers (which is where they are lobbing missiles at).

I wonder why Lebanon is such a disaster. It's almost like an ethnostate to the South keeps invading them every decade. Should really look into that.

NobodyHere 10-04-2024 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3444515)
Should really look into that.


Can you please give a short biased report on that? I'm sure we're all looking forward to that.

cuervo72 10-04-2024 10:09 PM

It’s an oversimplification, but there were about thirty years where Syria occupied half the country, and 20 years where Israel occupied another half of the country. So yeah, Lebanon hasn’t exactly had an easy time of things.

RainMaker 10-04-2024 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3444516)
Can you please give a short biased report on that? I'm sure we're all looking forward to that.


Israel has invaded Lebanon like 4 or 5 times in the past 50 years. It even occupied a chunk of its land for like 20 years. They created a doctrine where they intentionally target civilians (Dahiya doctrine, look it up). Even Reagan thought what they were doing was too fucked up to support.

All stuff you can look up to confirm.

Edward64 10-05-2024 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3444518)
Israel has invaded Lebanon like 4 or 5 times in the past 50 years. It even occupied a chunk of its land for like 20 years. They created a doctrine where they intentionally target civilians (Dahiya doctrine, look it up). Even Reagan thought what they were doing was too fucked up to support.

All stuff you can look up to confirm.


Specific to Dahiya, see below wiki

In other words, it intentionally targets civilian infrastructure and not civilians. And it does that because Israel believes the baddies are hiding themselves/weapons in/under/near the civilian infrastructures.

If Hamas/Hezbollah is so worried about it, the answer is for them stop using civilian infrastructures to hide, keep hostages, launch attacks etc.

Dahiya doctrine - Wikipedia
Quote:

The Dahiya doctrine, or Dahya doctrine,[1] is an Israeli military strategy involving the large-scale destruction of civilian infrastructure, or domicide, to pressure hostile governments.[2] The doctrine was outlined by former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Chief of General Staff Gadi Eizenkot. Israel colonel Gabi Siboni wrote that Israel "should target economic interests and the centers of civilian power that support the organization".[3] The logic is to harm the civilian population so much that they will then turn against the militants, forcing the enemy to sue for peace.[3][4]
A little more context

Quote:

What happened in the Dahieh quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which shots will be fired in the direction of Israel. We will wield disproportionate power and cause immense damage and destruction. From our perspective, these are military bases. [...] This isn't a suggestion. It's a plan that has already been authorized. [...] Every one of the Shiite villages is a military site, with headquarters, an intelligence center, and a communications center. Dozens of rockets are buried in houses, basements, attics, and the village is run by Hezbollah men. In each village, according to its size, there are dozens of active members, the local residents, and alongside them fighters from outside, and everything is prepared and planned both for a defensive battle and for firing missiles at Israel.

GrantDawg 10-05-2024 08:14 AM

There goes this thread.

GrantDawg 10-05-2024 08:22 AM

It doesn't matter how many govenors, how many local leaders, how many people actually living in the region tells you how great the responses has been, how massive the presence of rescuers, how hard and rapidly they are all working, people with agendas that have nothing to do with actually helping anybody in North Carolina or any other state affected by this hurricane are going to continue to lie and try to make political brownie points. Not one dollar sent to Lebanon, or Israel, or Ukraine takes away one dollar for disaster relief. If Republicans want to help the people affected in those communities, then the GOP that leads congress can come back right now and add funds to disaster relief. Nothing is stopping them but their own desire to spread lies.

Ksyrup 10-05-2024 08:28 AM

And apparently hinder relief efforts (assuming there really is no more money which is what they are saying) to hurt a political opponent instead of help people. Same thing we saw with the failed bill to help ease the BORDER CRISIS!!

GrantDawg 10-05-2024 08:36 AM

I watched dozens of videos last night from people in the region pleading for the lies to end. They are telling people that the government are seizing their land, that their hiding bodies in mass graves, that they having "town meetings" in severely damaged communities and if you are not there you won't get relief money. Meanwhile there is hardly one video where you can't hear the helicopters overhead bringing relief, doing rescues.


It is all so evil.

RainMaker 10-05-2024 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3444522)
In other words, it intentionally targets civilian infrastructure and not civilians.


You post some dumb stuff man but this has to be a troll. :lol:

Edward64 10-05-2024 11:25 AM

We think differently and see the world with different lenses.

JPhillips 10-05-2024 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72 (Post 3444514)
Well, that’s it then I guess. No money for anything until every last house is rebuilt!


Rebuilt even before they are damaged!

flere-imsaho 10-05-2024 12:51 PM

Edit: this made more sense on the previous page. Carry on, nevermind, nothing to see here.

Edward64 10-06-2024 07:02 AM

Joe, I don't disagree with your decision but why bring it up 30 days to election? A "too little, too late" so don't even bring it up. I don't see this helping Kamala but possibly discouraging some of the more progressive Dem voters.

Biden administration won’t extend legal status for certain migrants from four countries | CNN Politics
Quote:

The Biden administration won’t extend legal permissions for certain migrants from Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela and Haiti provided through a temporary humanitarian program designed to curb illegal border crossings, requiring them to seek other legal means to remain in the United States, according to the Department of Homeland Security.

The decision comes nearly two years after the administration rolled out a program geared toward Venezuelans seeking to come to the United States, allowing them to temporarily live and work in the US as a way to mitigate surges at the border. The program required that these migrants have a sponsor in the US, undergo screening and vetting, and complete vaccinations.

The administration later extended the program to Nicaraguans, Cubans and Haitians, describing it as a way for migrants to come to the US in an orderly manner.

But the program became a political flashpoint as Republicans have argued the administration was misusing parole authority and have frequently cited the program in their criticism of President Joe Biden’s immigration policies.

By the end of August, nearly 530,000 Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans and Venezuelans had flown into the US under the policy, according to federal data. The program is still available to new applicants from the four countries, though the administration briefly paused it this summer over concerns about fraud.

Dutch 10-06-2024 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72 (Post 3444514)
Well, that’s it then I guess. No money for anything until every last house is rebuilt!


As unrealistic as this dig is, no one would argue it’s a better strategy than the opposite unrealistic dig, which would be, “Let’s give our money to terrorists untilthey can bomb all the houses of our allies.”

GrantDawg 10-06-2024 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444663)
As unrealistic as this dig is, no one would argue it’s a better strategy than the opposite unrealistic dig, which would be, “Let’s give our money to terrorists untilthey can bomb all the houses of our allies.”

Except that they aren't giving it to terrorist, unless you think everyone brown and talks funny are terrorist. Lebanon has a huge Christian population, how very Christ-like to not give them aid.

JPhillips 10-06-2024 09:50 AM

Pew estimates that 43% of the population in Lebanon is Christian. Even if you want to say all Muslims are terrorists, there are lots of Christians there.

cuervo72 10-06-2024 12:14 PM

Yeah, but they're slightly brown Christians.

Dutch 10-06-2024 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3444665)
Except that they aren't giving it to terrorist, unless you think everyone brown and talks funny are terrorist. Lebanon has a huge Christian population, how very Christ-like to not give them aid.


I hate to break it to you, but the population doesn’t distribute the money. Not sure what you’re hearing, but the money goes to the government and the Lebanese government cannot get rid of Hezbollah even when Hezbollah uses Lebanese territory every day to fire rockets into Israel.

If there is any racism here, it’s allowing Hezbollah to build their bunkers under civilian buildings in what I assume is predominantly “Brown skinned” civilians territory and allowing them to fire those rockets at Jewish people…and you not giving a shit about it. That appears more and more like a projection of your own issues.

Dutch 10-06-2024 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444671)
Pew estimates that 43% of the population in Lebanon is Christian. Even if you want to say all Muslims are terrorists, there are lots of Christians there.


Well, I’ve never said that and you’ve probably accused me of it many times like you are right now. The message appears to be that you want this to be about race, but it’s not logical and certainly not my message. You are the ones broadcasting this repeatedly, not me.

We have a friend in Israel and we will help them against terror. We will do whatever it takes to help them. Lebanon should do the same and if they can’t or won’t, then we’ll back our key alliance member in the region. I would hope the people of Lebanon would support the destruction of Hezbollah and the removal of those terrorists from their soil, but it’s not up to them, it’s up to their government. Lebanon needs to step up to the plate and show some resolve in ending this war.

JPhillips 10-06-2024 02:00 PM

That's roughly the same as saying it would be okay to bomb New Orleans because of crime and if the people didn't want to be bombed they should have stopped all the crime.

Dutch 10-06-2024 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72 (Post 3444678)
Yeah, but they're slightly brown Christians.


And other one. You’re barking up the wrong tree as usual.

Dutch 10-06-2024 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444696)
That's roughly the same as saying it would be okay to bomb New Orleans because of crime and if the people didn't want to be bombed they should have stopped all the crime.


Hehe, no, it’s not roughly the same. We’re talking about a war where organized terrorists are dedicated to the genocide of the people of the Jewish religion. And you think that’s the same as stealing money from parked cars?

Dutch 10-06-2024 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72 (Post 3444678)
Yeah, but they're slightly brown Christians.


And other one. You’re barking up the wrong tree as usual.

JPhillips 10-06-2024 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444700)
Hehe, no, it’s not roughly the same. We’re talking about a war where organized terrorists are dedicated to the genocide of the people of the Jewish religion. And you think that’s the same as stealing money from parked cars?


You're saying everyone in Lebanon shares equal guilt and shouldn't be helped.

RainMaker 10-06-2024 03:20 PM

Nah, they got it right. You're defending an ethnostate that is actively committing genocide. A country that has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians funded by a country that has killed millions of innocent civilians in the region.

Lebanon is not doing that. Nor is Iran. There are terrorists in the region, but they're mostly us and our close allies (Saudi, ISIS, Israel).

GrantDawg 10-06-2024 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444693)
I hate to break it to you, but the population doesn’t distribute the money. Not sure what you’re hearing, but the money goes to the government and the Lebanese government cannot get rid of Hezbollah even when Hezbollah uses Lebanese territory every day to fire rockets into Israel.

If there is any racism here, it’s allowing Hezbollah to build their bunkers under civilian buildings in what I assume is predominantly “Brown skinned” civilians territory and allowing them to fire those rockets at Jewish people…and you not giving a shit about it. That appears more and more like a projection of your own issues.

The money is distributed through the UN World Food bank, which buys food, blankets and hygiene products to distrinute to people who are displaced. Same thing with money to Palestine. We aren't writing blank checks. The people being displaced aren't Hezbollah, but victims of Hezbollah.

Dutch 10-06-2024 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3444714)
Nah, they got it right. You're defending an ethnostate that is actively committing genocide. A country that has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians funded by a country that has killed millions of innocent civilians in the region.

Lebanon is not doing that. Nor is Iran. There are terrorists in the region, but they're mostly us and our close allies (Saudi, ISIS, Israel).


Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter. I get that. I will obviously disagree on Israel being the problem here. ISIS, of course I will agree. Saudi Arabia… yeah we could probably reach a good compromise on them.

Dutch 10-06-2024 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3444716)
The money is distributed through the UN World Food bank, which buys food, blankets and hygiene products to distrinute to people who are displaced. Same thing with money to Palestine. We aren't writing blank checks. The people being displaced aren't Hezbollah, but victims of Hezbollah.


So the UN could step up here for sure then.

UN: “We understand you have run out of money to support disasters, as friends, we got you. We’ll cover places like Lebanon that you have done so much for, so you can hold that money to help your own people during this time of need.”

Does that sound awful to you? It shouldn’t if it does.

JPhillips 10-06-2024 03:45 PM

There's no legal way to shift this money to hurricane relief without legislation. At best it could go unspent.

Dutch 10-06-2024 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444709)
You're saying everyone in Lebanon shares equal guilt and shouldn't be helped.


No, to be clear, you’re saying I’m saying that, but I’m not saying that at all.

JPhillips 10-06-2024 03:47 PM

Quote:

Blinken announces USA will send $156 million to Lebanon for their disaster of a state that allows Hezbollah to shoot thousands of rockets at Israeli farmers, women and kids because Hezbollah’s allies down south started a war by targeting, raping and killing thousands of Jewish kids.

How else should this be interpreted?

Dutch 10-06-2024 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444723)
There's no legal way to shift this money to hurricane relief without legislation. At best it could go unspent.


Then make it legal through legislation.

JPhillips 10-06-2024 03:48 PM

The GOP Speaker has so far refused to call Congress back to work and says he won't for another five weeks.

Dutch 10-06-2024 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444725)
How else should this be interpreted?


There isn’t, that’s the point. It’s not about the Lebanese people. They aren’t in charge.

JPhillips 10-06-2024 03:53 PM

You're saying:

There are terrorists in Lebanon
The government of Lebanon hasn't stopped them
Therefore, it's wrong to provide aid to civilians

Dutch 10-06-2024 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444727)
The GOP Speaker has so far refused to call Congress back to work and says he won't for another five weeks.


If it’s the GOP’s fault then I can’t image the democrats not standing on their chairs during their pressers on MSNBC and ABC demanding they get back to work right now for the people in NC. Unless you’ve been seeing that, which would be encouraging.

RainMaker 10-06-2024 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444728)
There isn’t, that’s the point. It’s not about the Lebanese people. They aren’t in charge.


They're the ones being bombed though.

Dutch 10-06-2024 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444730)
You're saying:

There are terrorists in Lebanon
The government of Lebanon hasn't stopped them
Therefore, it's wrong to provide aid to civilians


I said the money would be better spent on aid in America during our crisis and Mayorkas has said there is nothing left. Does that help?

Dutch 10-06-2024 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3444732)
They're the ones being bombed though.


They are human shields, yes. And that is illegal. The Israelis have not bombed them for a year straight like Hezbollah has done to Israelis. They look to me like they are fixing the problem. The reality is, if people are being bombed because they are human shields, the world needs to recognize this and make sure they are not held in eternal bondage by the terrorists. If the Lebanese government won’t fix this and the world won’t fix it and the USA won’t fix it, who’s left to fix it if not the nation that is being bombed daily by the terrorists?

JPhillips 10-06-2024 04:07 PM

The money literally can't be spent on hurricane relief.

You could do this with anything in the budget. Biden is literally more concerned with copier maintenance at HHS than he is with hurricane relief. Why is MTG's pay more important than hurricane relief? Why does Trump charge the Secret Service to stay in his resorts instead of helping the people impacted by the hurricane?

There's no reason to get into an argument about this is more important than that if the two things are in no way connected.

RainMaker 10-06-2024 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444734)
They are human shields, yes. And that is illegal. The Israelis have not bombed them for a year straight like Hezbollah has done to Israelis. They look to me like they are fixing the problem. The reality is, if people are being bombed because they are human shields, the world needs to recognize this and make sure they are not held in eternal bondage by the terrorists. If the Lebanese government won’t fix this and the world won’t fix it and the USA won’t fix it, who’s left to fix it if not the nation that is being bombed daily by the terrorists?


Hezbollah isn't intentionally bombing civilians. They are lobbing missiles into illegal settlements. Literally shooting at violent international criminals. They're not even meant to kill (as evident by the lack of civilian deaths), just annoy and force the terrorists out of the region.

And wtf are you talking about? Israel has been routinely bombing Lebanon for 50+ years. They literally took over half the country for like 20 years.

Dutch 10-06-2024 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3444736)
The money literally can't be spent on hurricane relief.

You could do this with anything in the budget. Biden is literally more concerned with copier maintenance at HHS than he is with hurricane relief. Why is MTG's pay more important than hurricane relief? Why does Trump charge the Secret Service to stay in his resorts instead of helping the people impacted by the hurricane?

There's no reason to get into an argument about this is more important than that if the two things are in no way connected.


I’m good with figuring out why we’re spending $600 million per year under FEMA for illegal immigrants. But you are right, we need to recalibrate the government for priorities that actually help Americans.

NobodyHere 10-06-2024 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444746)
I’m good with figuring out why we’re spending $600 million per year under FEMA for illegal immigrants. But you are right, we need to recalibrate the government for priorities that actually help Americans.


Where does the $600 million figure come from?

Atocep 10-06-2024 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3444749)
Where does the $600 million figure come from?


The GOP is twisting it as FEMA funds being diverted. Considering the sources pushing this are Greg Abbott, Dan Crenshaw, and Trump, you can guess the accuracy.

The Shelter and Services Program is a Congressionally funded program that provides money to non-federal agencies to provide humanitarian aid for non-US citizens. It was approved for $640 million this year. That's it. You could play transitive property-like games with the budget until the end of times to twist the narrative.

JPhillips 10-06-2024 05:57 PM

It was spent because Congress directed FEMA to spend it.

From NBC:

Quote:

FEMA has dedicated disaster relief money that cannot be used for other purposes. Separately, it was tasked by Congress in 2022 to disseminate money from Customs and Border Protection to help communities that received influxes of migrants.

Dutch 10-06-2024 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3444737)
Hezbollah isn't intentionally bombing civilians. They are lobbing missiles into illegal settlements. Literally shooting at violent international criminals. They're not even meant to kill (as evident by the lack of civilian deaths), just annoy and force the terrorists out of the region.

And wtf are you talking about? Israel has been routinely bombing Lebanon for 50+ years. They literally took over half the country for like 20 years.


Jewish people lived there and have historically lived there long before Muslims did. They were getting back what was rightfully theirs, similarly Istanbul is rightfully Christian territory, but, they lost the war with the Turks and so that settled it.

In 1947, Israel declared their independence. The Arab nations declared war and attacked them. Israel won. That settled it.

In 1967, Egypt, Jordan and Syria prepared themselves to destroy Israel once and for all, but Israel bombed the shit out Egypt’s fueling Air Force and decimated them all military. Israel agreed to give the Suez Peninsula back as part of the agreement after they won the war. They settled it.

In 1973, Egypt and Syria launched a surprise attack and Israel won again. That settled it.

In 1982, the PLO attacked Israel from Lebanon, and Israel won. That settled it.

In 1987, the first Intifada began with suicide bombers killing Jewish people, the USA and the Oslo accords under Clinton ended it. That settled it.

In 2000, the second intifada was launched with countless suicide bombers killing Jewish civilians. I don’t remember how that ended, but it was settled.

In 2006, Hezbollah started taking Israeli soldiers captive, Israel invaded and won. That settled it.

In 2008, Hamas conducted missile launched against Israel, Israel went in and forced them to stop. That settled it.

In 2012, Hamas began shooting tons of munitions into Israel. Israel defended itself until they quit. That settled it.

In 2014, Hamas ramped up their attacks on Israel once more and Israelis once more had to go in and stop them. Hamas quit again. That settled it.

In 2021, more rocket fire rained down on Israel from Gaza, Israel was forced to defend itself once again. Settled…

Last October, Hamas invaded Israel’s and slaughtered 1,400 civilians. Hezbollah started firing rockets the next day.

When the Arab governments say, “From
The River to the Sea”, they mean genocide. They want all Jewish people expelled or destroyed. It’s the same mentality Christians had 500 years ago and the Nazi had 85 years ago.

The Israeli people aren’t doing anything wrong by living on the lands they possess. While there have been agreements, those were meant to appease the Arabs, but when the remaining holdouts of the Arab world (Iran, Syria, Qatar) refuse to agree to any peace terms, well, they gonna get what they get. It’s not a genocide, it’s defense and you can’t play defense if there isn’t an offense.

Dutch 10-06-2024 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3444751)
The GOP is twisting it as FEMA funds being diverted. Considering the sources pushing this are Greg Abbott, Dan Crenshaw, and Trump, you can guess the accuracy.

The Shelter and Services Program is a Congressionally funded program that provides money to non-federal agencies to provide humanitarian aid for non-US citizens. It was approved for $640 million this year. That's it. You could play transitive property-like games with the budget until the end of times to twist the narrative.


And last year it was $700 million. I’ve seen the figure of $1.4 trillion thrown around a lot but I think it covers two years.

NobodyHere 10-06-2024 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444755)
And last year it was $700 million. I’ve seen the figure of $1.4 trillion thrown around a lot but I think it covers two years.


Where do you see 1.4 trillion being thrown around at?

Atocep 10-06-2024 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444755)
And last year it was $700 million. I’ve seen the figure of $1.4 trillion thrown around a lot but I think it covers two years.


Last year it was $360 million.

RainMaker 10-06-2024 06:03 PM

Shelter and Services Program is part of the CBP budget, not FEMA. FEMA is just the one who distributes the money for them. At least get your agencies right in your dumb talking points.

RainMaker 10-06-2024 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444754)
Jewish people lived there and have historically lived there long before Muslims did. They were getting back what was rightfully theirs, similarly Istanbul is rightfully Christian territory, but, they lost the war with the Turks and so that settled it.


Most Jewish people in Israel are from Europe. And the religion of a person on that land thousands of years ago doesn't matter to me. I don't think I should be able to declare I'm Jewish tomorrow and steal someone's olive farm in the West Bank. Just as I don't think someone who says they're Midewiwin should be able to bulldoze my home and kill me.

What you're describing is an ethnostate. Something I oppose. I don't think land should belong to a particular racial or ethnic group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444754)
When the Arab governments say, “From
The River to the Sea”, they mean genocide. They want all Jewish people expelled or destroyed. It’s the same mentality Christians had 500 years ago and the Nazi had 85 years ago.


That phrase is literally in the charter of Israel's ruling party. Netanyahu says it all the time. Sort of seems like you're upset that someone with some darker skin is using it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444754)
but when the remaining holdouts of the Arab world (Iran, Syria, Qatar) refuse to agree to any peace terms, well, they gonna get what they get.


This is a lie. All 22 Arab countries got together and offered terms to Israel. They asked for a 2-state solution and the end of the genocide.

Dutch 10-06-2024 07:44 PM

“What you're describing is an ethnostate. Something I oppose. I don't think land should belong to a particular racial or ethnic group.”

It is, but let’s be real.

Israel is 74% Jewish.
Syria is 92% Muslim
Egypt is 90% Muslim
Jordan is 97% Muslim
Iran is 99% Muslim
Iraq is 95% Muslim
Saudi Arabia is 100% Muslim

One of these is more accepting than others on that front and to ever give way to a Muslim rule would accomplish what, exactly? I’ve got a pretty good idea, not sure if we want to talk about or not.

illinifan999 10-06-2024 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3444737)
Hezbollah isn't intentionally bombing civilians. They are lobbing missiles into illegal settlements.


Seems like a gross escalation. Perhaps Hezbollah/Hamas/Palestine should try to de-escalate the illegal settlers?

RainMaker 10-06-2024 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444773)
It is, but let’s be real.

Israel is 74% Jewish.
Syria is 92% Muslim
Egypt is 90% Muslim
Jordan is 97% Muslim
Iran is 99% Muslim
Iraq is 95% Muslim
Saudi Arabia is 100% Muslim

One of these is more accepting than others on that front and to ever give way to a Muslim rule would accomplish what, exactly? I’ve got a pretty good idea, not sure if we want to talk about or not.


Not sure I'd call Israel accepting of others. It's nearly impossible to become a citizen if you are not a Jew, and if you are visiting, you have to abide by their apartheid rules. And they recently were involuntarily sterilizing darker-skinned Jews who were entering the country.

Regardless, I don't want tens of billions of tax dollars directly supporting the regimes above either. I don't want trillions of tax dollars indirectly supporting those countries too.

For someone upset about $150 million of humanitarian aid going to an ally, it's a bit odd you're not upset about the trillions spent on Israel's behalf.

Edward64 10-07-2024 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3444784)
And they recently were involuntarily sterilizing darker-skinned Jews who were entering the country.


If anyone cares, here's my rebuttal to the claim. Always good to define terms like sterilization vs birth control.

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - Israeli-Hamas War (Oct 2023)

GrantDawg 10-07-2024 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3444722)
So the UN could step up here for sure then.

UN: “We understand you have run out of money to support disasters, as friends, we got you. We’ll cover places like Lebanon that you have done so much for, so you can hold that money to help your own people during this time of need.”

Does that sound awful to you? It shouldn’t if it does.



They could, if the US asked. We are the richest country in the world though, and haven't "run out of money", the GOP has decided that paying politics is more important than actually helping people. The Republicans took $10 billion dollars out of the CR that was targeted disaster relief on the eve of this hurricane. Congress holds the purse strings, and if we don't have money for disaster relief it is because a GOP lead congress thought that it was more important to spread the fear of the brown people than to actually help citizens in need.

kingfc22 10-07-2024 10:49 AM

And lack of any critical thinking is why this is even being discussed.

“GOP said brown people bad and are stealing our money. Ahhhh!”

kingfc22 10-07-2024 10:52 AM

With the continued conversation playing out all the time.

Mindless idiots repeat the nonsense. Critical thinkers then actually research, spend time to educate and refute the falsehoods only to be ignored or ridiucled.

Rinse and repeat

Lathum 10-07-2024 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfc22 (Post 3444823)
And lack of any critical thinking is why this is even being discussed.

“GOP said brown people bad and are stealing our money. Ahhhh!”


don't forget they are eating the pets!

Atocep 10-07-2024 12:54 PM

Mike Johnson said FEMA has enough money and they don't need to recall congress to vote on additional funding so I don't know what the GOP is upset about.

Edward64 10-18-2024 05:37 AM

I like this, hope it gets official.

I hate being referred to some sort of retention specialist like when I quit cable. Print magazines that automatically renew are a pain.

The federal government just made it much easier to cancel your gym membership | CNN Business
Quote:

The FTC unveiled its final “click-to-cancel” rule, which requires businesses provide a way for consumers to cancel their subscriptions that is just as easy as it is to sign up. That includes everything from gym memberships to digital streaming and e-commerce to cable TV service.

JPhillips 10-18-2024 06:42 AM

Elon now offering 100 dollars to anyone in battleground states who signs his petition and promises to vote. He's basically paying voters and nothing will come of it.

GrantDawg 10-18-2024 07:20 AM

This is the defense: "While federal law dictates that paying individuals to vote or accepting payment for voter registration or voting is an offense, compensating people for signing petitions or for convincing others to sign petitions is not against the law."

Ghost Econ 10-18-2024 07:51 AM

A fool and his money...

NobodyHere 10-18-2024 08:41 AM

How do I sign up?

JPhillips 10-18-2024 08:44 AM

He has the link on his twitter feed.

He'll also give you 100 for referring people to sign.

JPhillips 10-18-2024 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3445856)
This is the defense: "While federal law dictates that paying individuals to vote or accepting payment for voter registration or voting is an offense, compensating people for signing petitions or for convincing others to sign petitions is not against the law."


The fact that he's checking the petition info against the registered voter list seems dicey.

Lathum 10-18-2024 10:14 AM

another example of Florida behaving badly and getting smacked down by a judge.

Free state of Florida my ass

Federal judge blasts DeSantis administration for threats against TV stations | CNN Business

Thomkal 10-18-2024 10:16 AM

Judge Chutkan has released Special Counsel's Smith trove of documents


Edit: Sorry didn't post this in right thread

RainMaker 10-18-2024 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3445852)
I like this, hope it gets official.

I hate being referred to some sort of retention specialist like when I quit cable. Print magazines that automatically renew are a pain.

The federal government just made it much easier to cancel your gym membership | CNN Business


You can tell which businesses had the scummiest methods based on their stock dropping yesterday. Planet Fitness dropped a few points right after the announcement.

Sadly, I think the next administration is going to boot Khan from the FTC and all this stuff will be reversed.

RainMaker 10-18-2024 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3445866)
another example of Florida behaving badly and getting smacked down by a judge.

Free state of Florida my ass

Federal judge blasts DeSantis administration for threats against TV stations | CNN Business


There's a House Rep here in Illinois who was calling the police because he didn't like a billboard. Our company had to sign a contract with a state that forbids our company from speaking out against fossil fuels. Meanwhile "free speech warriors" who never shut up about social media bias are silent when actual first amendment violations occur.

Edward64 10-24-2024 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3445852)
I like this, hope it gets official.

I hate being referred to some sort of retention specialist like when I quit cable. Print magazines that automatically renew are a pain.

The federal government just made it much easier to cancel your gym membership | CNN Business



Bastards

Industry groups are suing the FTC to stop its click to cancel rule - The Verge
Quote:

The cable industry, home security companies, and advertisers are suing to stop a rule requiring making it easier to cancel subscriptions.
Quote:

Their complaint (included below) alleges the rule is “arbitrary, capricious, and an abuse of discretion,” as reported previously by Reuters.
Quote:

The NCTA - Internet and Television Association represents service providers like Comcast, Charter, and Cox and entertainment studios like Disney, AMC, Paramount, and Warner Bros. Discovery. The IAB’s 700 members include almost any company connected to advertising, with Google, Netflix, Amazon, Meta, Vizio, and the NFL among its board members, while the ESA covers home security giants like ADT.


Edward64 11-14-2024 07:59 AM

Nice farewell gift from Joe and this Congress.

Bill was passed in House and will pass in the Senate. I don't know if it really is "fair" or not but pretty sure it impacts me when we take SS and pension. So not immediately but for the future.

My wife, worked as a public school teacher and also private sector. She was going to have some sort of "offset/subtraction" from either her pension or social security (I looked into it but never could figure out what it was but think about 50% of pension amount).

So, anyone/spouse that is a public school teacher expecting a school pension, and you/spouse also is eligible for social security will probably benefit from this.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/13/hous...ficiaries.html
Quote:

A bipartisan bill to change Social Security benefit rules for pensioners passed in the House of Representatives on Tuesday, with 327 lawmakers voting to support the measure.
Quote:

The proposal — called the Social Security Fairness Act — would repeal rules that reduce Social Security benefits for individuals who receive pension benefits from state or local governments.

It would eliminate the windfall elimination provision, or WEP, that reduces Social Security benefits for individuals who worked in jobs where they did not pay Social Security payroll taxes and now receive pension or disability benefits from those employers
Quote:

The bill would also eliminate the government pension offset, or GPO, which reduces Social Security benefits for spouses, widows and widowers who also receive pension checks.
Quote:

To help pay for those changes, it would require people with more than $400,000 in income to pay more Social Security payroll taxes.

flere-imsaho 11-14-2024 07:14 PM

If I was under 50, I'd be pissed. Actually, I'm over 50 and I'm pissed.

Dutch 12-01-2024 08:33 PM

As expected, Hunter Biden has been pardoned for all offenses he committed or may have committed from 2024-2024. Not sure if this would cover any of the family treason accusations, but all the crack and the sex offender stuff has been forgiven, and some tax and gun stuff too. Congrats to all who have supported him in these trying times. He’s officially innocent on all counts.

BYU 14 12-01-2024 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3450613)
As expected, Hunter Biden has been pardoned for all offenses he committed or may have committed from 2024-2024. Not sure if this would cover any of the family treason accusations, but all the crack and the sex offender stuff has been forgiven, and some tax and gun stuff too. Congrats to all who have supported him in these trying times. He’s officially innocent on all counts.


Oh just wait until all the J6 convicted are pardoned, then you can really celebrate your boy.

Lathum 12-01-2024 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3450613)
As expected, Hunter Biden has been pardoned for all offenses he committed or may have committed from 2024-2024. Not sure if this would cover any of the family treason accusations, but all the crack and the sex offender stuff has been forgiven, and some tax and gun stuff too. Congrats to all who have supported him in these trying times. He’s officially innocent on all counts.


Oh fuck right off....Trump pardoned way worse people and is a convicted felon himself.

cuervo72 12-01-2024 08:43 PM

“ Of the pardons and commutations that Trump did grant, the vast majority were to persons to whom Trump had a personal or political connection, or persons for whom executive clemency served a political goal.[2][3][4] A significant number had been convicted of fraud or public corruption.[5] The New York Times reported that during the closing days of the Trump presidency, individuals with access to the administration, such as former administration officials, were soliciting fees to lobby for presidential pardons.[6]”

Really, spare me the pearl clutching.

Edward64 12-02-2024 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3450613)
He’s officially innocent on all counts.


He's gotten a free get-out-of-jail card, but pardon does not mean he is officially innocent.

I don't like it, but it's legal, I expected it, and I would not begrudge anyone from doing the same for their children if they had that power. Joe should never have said "read my lips, no new taxes" and just said "I love my son" and leave the options open.

But yeah, I understand it. Rich people get away with things that regular people don't, that's life. Both sides do it. Joe lost the moral high ground for the Libs but it's his son and bottom line, that's what's really, really important.

Have a great retirement, Joe.

Dutch 12-02-2024 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3450625)
He's gotten a free get-out-of-jail card, but pardon does not mean he is officially innocent.

I don't like it, but it's legal, I expected it, and I would not begrudge anyone from doing the same for their children if they had that power. Joe should never have said "read my lips, no new taxes" and just said "I love my son" and leave the options open.

But yeah, I understand it. Rich people get away with things that regular people don't, that's life. Both sides do it. Joe lost the moral high ground for the Libs but it's his son and bottom line, that's what's really, really important.

Have a great retirement, Joe.


I agree as well, it’s not the fault of Joe Biden to protect his family. It’s part and parcel with politics. It’s not right, it’s never right, it is what it is.

Now, things we can take away from this.

The Democrats ran on, “No one is above the law,” and “We need to all pay our fair share”.

Both of those things were calculated lies, we all saw it for what it was, so it failed to rally the votes they wanted. Score 1 for the American voters.

The choice of pardoning his son now leaves open the conversation similar to why Biden hosted Trump for a debate well before the typical debate season. Are their plans in place to declare him incompetent in the works? Which could open a can of worms, obviously, was he competent enough to write this pardon? I don’t think he was. The only saving grace would be if Hunter was set to be scheduled for prison before Jan 6th.

And the timeline, all federal crimes from 2014-2024. Wow, that’s a pretty blatant acceptance that his Burisma ties are exactly as bad as the conspiracy theorists said it was.

The silver lining, however, is Hunter Biden could be called as a material witness and he can’t plead the 5th. Which would make him a prime target of a tragic drug overdose to protect the family.

It’s a wild situation for sure.

cuervo72 12-02-2024 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3450630)
And the timeline, all federal crimes from 2014-2024. Wow, that’s a pretty blatant acceptance that his Burisma ties are exactly as bad as the conspiracy theorists said it was.


Or he felt it was necessary to deter Republicans from investigating him over and over whether there is anything there or not, which they very well could do as a harassment/revenge tactic.

Trump’s Awful FBI Pick Is Already Revealing What’s Coming

JPhillips 12-02-2024 08:09 AM

Dutch has always been conservative, but he's been marinating in Q level bullshit for too long. How can anyone seriously think Joe Biden would murder his son to prevent him from testifying?

Ksyrup 12-02-2024 08:30 AM

This, from the Bulwark, is basically on-point my thoughts from yesterday:

Quote:

The president ought not to have pardoned Hunter Biden. It’s by no means clear Hunter Biden deserves a pardon on the merits. It’s altogether clear that President Biden promised not to pardon his son. And it’s unfortunately clear that this is a very bad time to indulge in a pardon that gives political ammunition to an incoming administration determined not to make exceptions to the rule of law but to shred it wholesale.

Dutch 12-02-2024 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3450638)
Dutch has always been conservative, but he's been marinating in Q level bullshit for too long. How can anyone seriously think Joe Biden would murder his son to prevent him from testifying?


lol. I can assure you I’m just a regular dude. Definitely a conservative and have never been a Democrat (though in the past I have abstained from voting as a nod to Clinton’s second term).

I’m not predicting or suggesting Joe Biden would be the one to murder or even call for his murder.

If the 10-year period of immunity was a “just in case” call by Biden’s team. This could literally all be a nothing-burger. I don’t know and neither does anyone at this point.

But if it’s protecting him from any sort of treasonous activity that extends beyond Hunter Biden, I can see how Hunter could be in danger from those who might feel the heat. Hopefully, any inquiries into that wouldn’t need to affect the Biden family at all.

Dutch 12-02-2024 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 3450640)
This, from the Bulwark, is basically on-point my thoughts from yesterday:


It certainly didn’t set a new standard in POTUS politics as promised. So I think it’s fair to expect more of the same in four years.

NobodyHere 12-02-2024 10:04 AM

So I've been told that in order to accept a pardon the person must admit guilt.

Has Hunter admitted to being guilty to anything?

Kodos 12-02-2024 10:29 AM

Does anyone else think that Dutch has only returned to troll the board?

cuervo72 12-02-2024 10:50 AM

Probably, yeah.

GrantDawg 12-02-2024 11:17 AM

You don't have to admit guilt to receive a pardon. The court has said there can be an assumption of guilt with a pardon, but a person can still claim innocence and receive a pardon.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Kodos 12-02-2024 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 3450662)
You don't have to admit guilt to receive a pardon. The court has said there can be an assumption of guilt with a pardon, but a person can still claim innocence and receive a pardon.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk


For now. Until they change their mind.


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