to be fair though they have missed 2 starters all season long.

IMO with those 2 guys heathly they are the 5th best team in the East (Orl, Bos, Atl, Cle are better). Not championship material obviously but how many teams win some 45-50 games within 3,4 seasons after seriously "tanking" ?
Plus there last run they were a solid team for a couple years before making a big jump as well.

I agree that they need to find an identity and start doing sth well, but that´s hard to judge until Hamilton and Prince come back and all those other guys can get back to playing their role.

I´d trade Stuckey though, don´t see the apeal at all. What´s the incentive of having a PG with below-average playmaking ability and no 3 point shot that needs the ball to score ? Especially when :
-your best scorer needs the ball as well (but has a great jump shot and simply better)
-your 2nd best scorer relies on getting open via ball screens
-you have a couple more decent scorers (Villanueva and Prince) that need a healthy amount of catch and shoot oportunities
-you have a copy cat coming off the bench (Will Bynum)
-your front court people are basically only able to score in Pick and Roll Situations or from point blank range (Wallace, Brown, Wilcox, Maxiell to an extent)

seriously, i´d sell as long as the value is high.

That's nice. They've missed two starters. I understand that. Yet how does everyone fit when those starters come back? They look like a square peg, round hole type of team. NBA teams are puzzles. Doesn't mean every team has to be built the same way, but there has to be some sort of a plan there.

Two teams who made some free agent noise are having problems now. A big reason is because they didn't try to build a puzzle, they tried to create assets. Detroit is one of those teams. Portland is the other. (a team that was struggling even before Oden went down for the count, something that I'm still sick over by the way)

Assuming they are healthy, I think they are in a race for the 6th best team in the east. (I think Miami is clearly a better team)

Who are they competing with for #6, 7 and 8? Chicago, Milwaukee, Charlotte, New York. . . look, it's brutal. I wouldn't exactly be proud of 41-44 wins. Hell, IMHO, all those two starters do is put them deeper into mediocrity. Not good enough to win, not bad enough to get a high pick. You just analyzed the team above. The puzzle pieces fit together horribly. I agree by the way, I'd start with Stuckey. The more of him I see, the less I like.

AI made his return. Some thoughts on the game:

AI was two steps slow. He may be better when he gets some conditioning.
Melo had his worst game of the year. Horrible on defense, offense. . . just an ugly game from him.
Ty Lawson is a stud. I know I've said it about ten times in this thread, but the guy is all that, a bag of chips and more. When Chauncey leaves, he's going to slide right in and start.
Speaking of Chauncey, he had a great game. Led Denver in the second half.
Someone really, really needs to teach Iggy how to deal with a double team.
Elton Brand looks horrible.
Philly bench 1-15 from the floor. 2 points, 5 boards, 1 assist
Denver bench - 10-22, 29 points, 15 boards, 5 assists.
That pretty much sums it up I think.

The Cavs are playing good. About time it came together.

TroyF, I know you're a big Nuggets fan and had a question for you since you probably watch most of their games. I've been watching a few of their games lately and they seem like a much better team with Lawson on the court over Billups. It seems like he comes in and they go on a big run. Are people in Denver seeing that too or are my eyes deceiving me?

The game is built much more for speedy point guards and he seems like he really plays well with the other starters.

P.S. The Lawson pick was a great one and I think a lot of teams should kick themselves in the ass for passing on him. Even if he never is a full-time NBA starter, he's a guy off the bench with a ton of speed who can give teams a nice run at the end of quarters when starters are wearing down after long stretches. With the rules as they are, I don't know why teams wouldn't want a super fast PG with a high basketball IQ.

Your eyes aren't deceiving you and those of us in Denver notice the same thing. When Ty comes on the court, everything changes. We pay faster, force other teams into stupid mistakes and get about 3 WOW plays a game. That said, CB is coming around. Huge game last night to help Denver get the win.

I'd argue that Denver has the best 4 G rotation in basketball:

Billups - Wily old vet. Can hit the three and takes care of the ball 3-1 a/to ratio. Money fro the line.
Lawson - Electric, fast, solid defense.
Afflalo - Solid on defense. Shooting 49% from three. Hard worker.
JR Smith - The mad hatter. When he gets on, he can carry the Nuggets for stretches.

The Nuggets mix and match the four (even playing Billups and Lawson together a lot down the stretch last night) It can give the Nuggets a ton of looks based on what other teams throw at them.

One last thing: I think Lawson will be a full time starter. I think he'd be the full time starter on multiple teams right now. He'll be a reserve next year, then I think Chauncey signs a new deal to be the backup to Ty.

Here's a number to back up what you're seeing with Lawson.

Denver averages 113 points per 100 possessions overall. With Lawson in the game they're averaging 125 per 100.

Yep, some people in Denver are using those numbers to suggest Ty should start. I think it's off base for a couple of reasons:

1) Ty changes the game against tired legs or backups right now. Put him with "fresh" guys to start a game and he'll still be one hell of a PG, but there is no question those points per possession numbers drop.

2) CB is still a very good PG against the standard NBA defense. He knows where to go with the ball and knows when to pick his spots. Ty will learn that, but he doesn't need to be thrown into the fire now.

3) Keep Ty fresh for the postseason. No need to play him 35 minutes a night now and wear him down. As much as that would help my fantasy team, it would not help the Nuggets.

I agree with Troy.

I said during the draft that I couldn't believe so many teams were passing on him and I kept hoping the C's would grab him.

I guess the issue I'd see is it's Game 7 in the playoffs, who do you have on the floor in the 4th quarter?

Bulls about to lose to the 1-19 Nets. At home.

I think if they lose tonight to the Nets, Vinny will be fired.

Salmons isnt good for anyone keeping their job. Cant believe he actually starts.

Fuck this team. Can't wait to go Saturday night and see the Celtics beat us by 40.

Check your PM Neuqua.

Nets would have to be one of the better "terrible" teams IMO. Fair amount of young talent with Lopez, CDR, and Lee, and Devin Harris is only 26 even though I'm far from sold on him as a PG.

They just need an entire new bench and a big upgrade at PF to be a competitive team.

They need a new coach. Rose is not developing at all under him. This is the first time I'm starting to have my doubts that Rose will ever develop into a superstar. Just doesn't seem to have that killer instinct or leadership skills. Probably helps they have a fucking clueless coach.

I really thought Rose was taking over at the end of the 4th quarter, but then coming out of a timeout, John Salmons took an ill advised 3pter, I couldn't believe it. Lost all our momentum there.

I guess the crappiest part about the Bulls is they can't do much in terms of change. They need the cap space for next year. They also don't want to bring in a big name coach until they know who the free agents would want. I'd imagine they'd let Wade or Lebron pick whoever they want as a coach if they chose to do so.

I kind of knew this was a wasted year, but I had hoped we'd see Rose develop and become a real leader. He has his moments but just seems to lack that killer instinct. He should have been the one with the ball at the end and driving to make plays. I don't know if that's Rose being timid or Vinny drawing up dumb plays.

Bulls lose again tonight by 35. They are about at that Timberwolves/Nets level of crappiness.

Woohoo Rockets!

This answer all depends on two main questions:

1) How is JR Smith playing?

Is he hot? Is he taking stupid shots? Is he breaking down the defense or breaking down the Nuggets?

2) How has Chauncey Billups looked during the series?

Is his three point shooting on? Has he worn down?

3) Who is the opposing SG/PG combo?

I say combo because if it's not a tall unit, you could easily put CB on the SG. Let's say it's the Spurs or Lakers. With them, you can't play Chauncey and Ty together. neither of them could match up on Kobe.


Right now, I think the Nuggets best overall lineup is one they haven't used much this season, but should use more:

C - Nene
PF - Martin
SF - Melo
SG - JR Smith
PG - Ty Lawson

All things being equal, that's the fourth quarter unit I'd want on the floor in the final 5 minutes of a game 7. They haven't played together a lot yet, but I expect by the end of the year they will play that unit more. Those variables listed above mean a lot, however, and it's why I like the Nuggets. They have plenty of options and one of those guys going cold won't kill them.

Still, barring injury, I don't think anyone beats the Lakers.

Don´t see it that way really. How can you proclaim they are having problems and base it on the Free Agent signing when they haven´t been able to play with their full roster at all yet and thus there´s no way of knowing hot Villanueva/Gordon impact that team as a whole ?

IMO they can be a good team allready this season and easily reach the playoffs. Both Gordon and Villanueva could then come off the bench giving the Pistons a lot of options and imo a good mixture of defensive minded player, offensive weapons and hustle players, also a good mixture of young, proven and veteran players.

I´m not even a Detroit Fan or anything, that´s just how i see it as a neutral.

Fast becoming a huge fan of Jerebko though (even more than my normal "he´s a euro" fandom ;) ), would have never assumed that he´d adjust that fast.
Had a weaker game last night despite ok raw numbers of 12/8. The Pistons still won behind Stuckey and Villanueva. Daye looked solid out there despite low numbers and Ben Wallace was pretty good on the boards and defensively.


btw :

Kings-Wizards game to feature 'Dollar Beer Night' at ARCO - Ball Don't Lie - NBA Blog - Yahoo! Sports

:D

and another thing only semi-related to the NBA per se, Improv everywhere (check them out, especially awesome was frozen grand central : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwMj3PJDxuo ) does a "lost fan" prank at MSG and gets a bunch of people to play along without knowing :

Where’s Rob? « Improv Everywhere

hilarious :D

No, the Pistons won behind Denver playing like garbage, the refs treating Stuckey like Dwayne Wade (15 FT attempts while Melo had 8 and took the ball to the hole every bit as much) and George Karl deciding to give the F'n ball to Chauncey Billups at the end of the game rather than the best player on the damned team. It was nice watching Carmelo Anthony stand 28 feet from the basket while Chauncey ran an ISO at the end of the game. I have never been so mad as Nugget fan. Ever.

I think Detroit can get as healthy as they want. . . I still think they are constructed incredibly poorly. I hope they get healthy so we can find out if I'm right or wrong.

Daye looks good. I'm not sure about Jerebko. Looked decent last night, I'd need to see more.

Not even when they traded for AI?

No, not even then. Hell, I was OK with the AI trade. They needed to do something at the time.

Last night just topped the cake.

On one hand you have a guy who is 6-15, struggling from the floor and you know there will be no foul call on a drive.

On the other, you have a guy who is 16-28 from the floor, has 40 points and the Pistons haven't had an answer for him all night.


So you intentionally set up an inbounds play to the 6-15 guy, leave the 40 point guy on the wing two feet beyond the three point line and run an ISO.

Gee, Detroit didn't leave the 40 point guy open, I'm shocked. And the guy shooting under 40% for the year couldn't hit the shot.

That play MUST be run through Carmelo Anthony. I'm not saying he has to take the shot. He doesn't. Detroit probably comes with a hard double right away. Two passes and someone gets an open shot to tie or win the game. Instead, Melo isn't even a decoy. He's not cutting through the lane, tying up defenders. . . no, he's out by the three point land.

That was one of the single worst play calls I've seen in recent memory for any team. I'm still angry about it this morning. How can you even THINK that's the right call? Unbelievable GK, just unbelievable.

I was just reading an article the other day about Denver potentially giving Karl an extension. What's the feeling in Denver about this? To be honest, Denver is probably the team that worries me the most as a Laker fan, but I've always felt as long as they have Karl, he'll find a way to screw things up.

Re: The Pistons

1. The Pistons are a vastly better team when Stuckey is our 2 and doesn't have to handle the ball all game. It's not even a comparison.

2. Jerebko right now is Joe D's best pick since Memo Okur. Very early but the kid can play. He's very active on both ends of the floor, has a nice J, and can really do anything out there. I am not going to say he'll be a superstar but I like his potential a lot.

3. Austin Daye is meh to me still so far. Good for the role he has but he likes a 2D character out there. Christ he is thin.

4. This team is going to suffer when Rip and Tay are back. It will make the bench stronger, but it means Stuckey moves back to PG and just watch that nightmare ensue.

5. For this team to have any hope in the future, Rip and Tay both somehow need to be dealt, a real PG must be had and another big man who can play is also a must. All of that cannot happen this year, or next year most likely, so it's a 3 year process which is absurd when you just spent 90 mil on two bench players.

6. Joe D is an awful GM who has no idea how to construct a team any. 2004/05 proved to be flukes.

don´t get that at all. Then why not just trade Stuckey ? :confused: But again, i see maybe 5 games a year and certainly am no expert regarding the Pistons.

anyway, the Rockets beat the Sixers. Iverson looked ok, but had very little impact on the game. The Rockets certainly didn´t went out of their way even when he got a couple scores.
Landry should get serious 6th man consideration. 16/6 in 26 minutes off the bench. Shooting 56%, 88% on 5 attempts from the line, 16.3 points on 10.6 shots.
Houston 13-9 now.
Oklahoma 12-9 btw, nice.

Suns finally beat another good team in orlando.
Nash 20 points and 18 assists, SToudemire 28/10. Howard with an absurd stat. 1/1 FGs. Yeah, he got to the line 17 times (and only hit 8 ...) but still that´s ridiculous against a team like Phoenix ...

On the season Howard 18/12 (down from 21/14) with only 9 FGA (down from 12) on the same amount of FTs (about 10.5).

kobe breaks a finger on his shooting hand but still plays the 2nd half, Brewer has a ridiculous dunk on and over Fisher. Yeah, only the 6 foot fisher and i´m not a big highlight fan, but that simply looked astonishing.

lakers now 97-21 in the regular season with Gasol in the lineup, thats insane.

Joe loves Stuckey. He said positions are antiquated yet every time Stuckey runs our offense we are usually terrible. When someone else runs it and he can just be a scorer, the team usually plays 100x better.

But Joe won't change anything so it is what it is.

That´s good news for the Lakers, especially since at some point the schedule will get more demanding. Haven´t really checked, but just figuring after 17 home games in the first 21. Not a bad way to start a season ;)
The Suns on the other hand played 15 of their first 23 on the road (are 8-0 at home, 8-7 on the road)

Unless they are in a playoff game against the Warriors Id have Billups out there. Exciting may be look wonderful in the regular season but when it comes down to the 4th quarter of a playoff game you want the 90 percent FT shooter and the guy that can run an offense without turnovers in the game.

Not to mention the fact that most good teams are going to be able to exploit Lawson as a defender.

Carmello has been known to drift at times as well so its nice to have a PG in the game that will keep that from happening.

Lawson plays well with JR Smith in the up tempo game which makes their bench so strong. I dont think you want JR Smith and his bonehead plays in the game late either unless you are down 6-10 points and trying to catch up.

Billups may have a poor shooting percentage but is still a productive scorer because he is so good at drawing fouls. This year he is averaging around 8-9 FT attempts per game.

They have officially brought me back to the NBA after a long absence. Actually, it has been a steady process since the Hornets were here, but this season has really hooked me and I'm watching every Thunder game I can now. It's a fun team to watch, young and talented, and the improvement between last year and this year is quite incredible. I'm VERY excited about the future.

They are a fun bunch. I thought this year was too soon for them but they are making believers out of me. Durant is playing at an unbelievable level. To think there were some people that thought Oden was the slam dunk pick over Durant:)

Ariza took a bad cheapshot tonight and should get a suspension for it. Basically threw an elbow at the back of Derozans head that would have really done some damage if it connected. See it no differently than a punch and I think he should get 5 games although I'd probably be surprised if he even got one.

Got one game ... Should have been more, definitely.

The Rockets HC Adelmann complained about the schedule the upcoming weeks and quite frankly has a point. 4 sets of back-to-backs in a row. And around christmas they play in LA on the 22nd, in Orlando on the 23rd. Then on the 26th they play in New Jersey ...
The NBA should just quit playing 23rd-27th. Maybe put on some local rivalry games with not-so-long distances for the visiting team for national TV (maybe like any Dallas-Houston-San Antonio / Clippers-Lakers / Orlando-Miami) , but not sth as ridiculous as flying across the country basically on the 24th and then head back east on the 26th...

McGrady gave his season debut yesterday night, playing 7 minutes in the first quarter, and will be brought along slowly. Glad he´s made it back, now we´ll have to see how this thing develops.

Portland now is starting Miller again (with Blake coming off the bench) and by now i am starting to question that move as well. He´s terribly underutilized and Roy hasn´t adjusted at all, i´m incredibly disapointed by Roy´s lacking willngness to play off the ball more ...
Bayless has been a bright spot this month.

btw just a stat i find amazing : Gerald Wallace still averages 12 rebounds per game (now 23 games into the year) , his FG percentage picked up as well.

Ty's defense is actually the biggest revelation of the year in my mind. He's not an A+ defender by any stretch, but he's not at all bad either. His on court/off court numbers are almost identical to Billups on D, and his overall defense against opposing PG's is actually better.

Ty has slumped a bit in the past couple of weeks, but that's to be expected, he's a rookie. Not sure what the Carmelo drifting thing is about. He just doesn't drift in the fourth quarter of a close game. Last year he was right on par with Lebron and Kobe in the final 5 of a close game, hit more game winning shots and shot a much higher three point percentage than either of the other two.

The problem with Melo is the fact the team sometimes goes away from him for no apparent reason. This happens with Billups or Lawson on the court. It's also a function of the idiocy of George Karl. (again, look at the example of the final play of the Pistons game, Melo was destroying the PIstons and never touched the ball on a designed play. .. just horrible)

The scheduling of the league has always been bizzare. Rockets have 22 back to backs this year, Nuggets have 21. Lakers have 19.

The Nuggets actually played 4 back to backs with a single game against Memphis sandwiched around them to start the year. In fact, of the Nuggets first 15 games, they had 6 sets of back to backs. By the way, they don't play IN LA on the 22nd, the play the Clippers in Houston before going to Orlando.

The sets of back to backs go like this:

Home vs. Detroit, @Denver

1 day off

@Dallas, home vs. OKC (4th in 5 nights, but at least it's at home for the final tilt and Dallas isn't exactly a long road trip)

2 days off

Home vs. Clippers, @Orlando

3 days off

@NJ, @Cleveland

The problem, and where I agree with Adlemen is to do this around the holidays. If this were a February schedule, you just stay in NJ for a few days. You can't do that with Christmas in the mix and that causes more air travel.

As for the rest of it? It sucks, but that's the league.

As for Roy, I don't think he CAN play off the ball. His game is suited for dominating it. the Blazers knew this when they gave him the max, then signed a ball dominating PG to play with him. I didn't get it then and still don't, even if the goal was just to trade Dre.

I'm VERY interested to see how the Blazers play during this next 6 game stretch. Actually the stretch of games I've waited all season for them to have. Phoenix, @Orlando, @Miami, @Dallas, @SA, Denver. The Blazers have 4 wins against +.500 teams this year. 2 vs. Houston (both at home), SA (at home) and @OKC. Now they play 6 straight against +.500 teams, including 4 of the top teams in basketball.

I'm very interested to see how they perform. (FYI, Denver has played an easy ass schedule thus far and has 7 wins against +.500 teams, including the Lakers, Jazz, Blazers, Suns (3 of the 4 at home)

Oh Kobe

I agree on the holiday schedule. I don't have a problem having a few games on Christmas Day for TV, but I hate having other games around then. For instance I have tickets on the 26th of December. I'd rather not go to the game since I'd rather just take the day off from all the holiday crap. I'm sure the players would too.

Setup a couple high profile games on Christmas Day and give the rest of the league off for a few days. If you can't do that, at least only have these teams play one game so they aren't flying around the country during that time.

Saw him live last night and the guys is phenomenal. Bulls did a good job on him in the 2nd half but he hit everything in site in the first quarter. At one point in the first quarter, he scored on like his 6th consecutive possesion and the place just gave him a huge applause. Never seen an opposing player get a hand like that in the United Center (besides Jordan). It was as if he got everyone to start rooting for him just on his play.

"I guess what I'm trying to say is...if I can change...and youz can change... EVERYBODY CAN CHANGE!!!"

Really, Kobe?

The man is phenomenal.

and how about Gasol´s rebounding ?

Last 5 games :

12
20
20
16
22


has anyone seen Mike Dunleavy play this year ? Kind of glad he made it back, really like his game. Yeah, never lived up to the hype but so what ? Hope he gets to play on a contender at some point, could really be a good 6th man on some teams.
Has come back very well from injury, averaging 15 points in only 23 minutes through 10 games.

With Ty's defense as an on the ball defender he is great. I was talking about exploiting him in the post due to his lack of height. They may not have a matchup that makes him exploitable in the post in the playoffs either. It was more of a worst case scenario.

As for Mello I was more so talking when hes not getting the ball where he needs to have his greatest success. Billups will run the offense and make sure he gets it in a post up position or closer to the hoop. I should have been more specific, when Mello settles for the 20 foot jumpers he is doing the defense a favor. Every once in awhile it seems Mello will start settleing for the 20 foot jumper when he is one of the 3 most dangerous players in the NBA taking it to the hoop.

In any case the Nuggets are an exciting group of talent. I hope they can put it together and challenge the Lakers this year.

Billups strained a groin last night, so all of the Nuggets fans wanting a big dose of Lawson are going to get it now.

When watching Melo play, it is usually one of three ways he plays:

1) Attacks the hoop, gets foul calls, keeps attacking the hoop all game.
2) Attacks the hoop, gets no foul calls (sometimes because of good defense, sometimes because the refs have their heads up their asses and let him get beat to hell). . . after which he moves to the 15-18 foot range and fires up jumpers with mixed success.
3) He's "in the zone" and hitting everything. Defender lays off of him, he drains the 15 footer. Defender gets close, he blows past him and gets an and one. Double comes, he hits cutters in the lane for dunks and FT attempts.

When he's in zone three, he's unstoppable. Last night, it was zone one. He attacked all night long. Hit a three point shot, but other than that he was in pure attack mode. He got the calls he deserved (only one superstar call I saw last night) and kept attacking.

His problem when facing the Lakers is that he needs is outside shot to be on, because zone one isn't possible. The Lakers have too much length and the Lakers know the refs aren't calling everything. Melo must have his total package working or he's in trouble against the Lake show.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. The NBA allowing the Pau Gasol trade has turned the Lakers into a dynasty. Nobody in the NBA can match their length, bulk, and Kobe. If they stay healthy, they'll win 65 games and cruise to a title. (apologies Celtics fans)

I wish the Nuggets could sign Alex English to a one year, 20 million dollar contract and trade him and an 18 year old for an all nba forward, but that's not going to happen. (I love the revisionist history now that Marc is playing well, the Grizzlies did it to cut salary, no other reason, Marc Gasol could have been Adam Morrison, they just needed a body to complete the deal)

If it sounds like I'm bitter, I still am. But the Lakers are now a dynasty and will win 3 or 4 more rings in the next 6 years because Stern allowed that farce to go through. Lakers fans will cheer and everyone else will just have to hope for early retirements (I never wish injury)

That trade wasnt even as bad as the Garnett trade to Minnesota. The Griz took the first deal offered. The T-Wolves did it to help the C's

Oh the new burden of expectations. OKC has lost three straight. They were against three of the top teams (Dallas, Denver, Cleveland), but with two of them at home, I hoped they would get at least one. They were definitely in the games against Cleveland and Dallas, leading both late, I think, before making those young mistakes.

Hm. What did the Lakers send that was anywhere near as valuable as Jefferson?

The rumored offers revolved around Odom and Bynum.

What was the actual offer?