Factions forming:
1.) Raiders + Pennywise - vouching on PMs received
2.) Blade + Alan T - Alan providing explanations for Blade's dig results

Blade, I would like to be able to prove that you are working with our (TH) interests here. Do you care to rephrase how much gold you collected last night? Or how many times you dug last night?

I've seen you play this way to gain an advantage as a villager before, but if you are not inclined to be forthcoming at this point then it may be best for us to throw you in jail and get a role reveal on you. I want you on my side this game, but I don't want to be having a ton of doubt like I do at this moment. And normally I feel like I've got a pretty good read on you when you are a villager (role or no role).

You answered your own question. At least, it's a possible reason. It's possible that you knew that someone saw you in the area and you wanted to go ahead and post your location and actions before they said they saw you.

I'm not saying it's what happened, but it's a possible reason for you to say it.

There has not been much info to go on. You gave us very specific information that was surprising to me (that a gold source was tapped out already). That warrants a further look, IMO.

I don't for now...if things get desperate i will start down that path, but i do not want to be in the same boat as raiders(as good as dead)...one post in particular will be quoted if i must, but for now i want to see who pushes and how hard. You know how i play, and hopefully last game can give you a ballpark idea of how im playing now. If you guys dont understand, then just smile and nod, as you likely never will.

And i wanted to say to raiders, thanks for the chat last game...id imagine the way things are going with these villagers and accusing roles they shouldnt we will get to chat quite soon again, out of game this time though

OK, just know that if you are a treasure hunter then I think that I'm offering you a possible out for your situation. So if we are on the same side I would prefer you play along rather than let the masses decide your fate. Because the story you have out there at the moment doesn't stand up very well without someone coming out and saying they got inconsistent results on digs in the same square last night.

If that information is not forthcoming, then you are lying. Why?
1.) working an angle (50% likelihood, much higher chance for you than just about any other player in the game)
2.) you are a pirate (30% likelihood, although you don't normally trip yourself up like this)
3.) some possibility that I have not yet considered (20%)

"inconsistent results on digs in the same square"

Not that this doesn't have to be C5, just someone who dug two or more times in the same place (any of the 49 squares) with different results on at least one of their attempts.

Not me. I got the same thing on each dig attempt.

I had more than one dig with the same result each time.

I appreciate you trying to give me an out, though it could be contrued as your normal sublte ploys for role reveals...i dont think this is the time, nor the possible magnitude for my role reveal. If they want to lynch me, they will only decrease their chances of reaching a monopoly...and i can assume more so then by killing someone else. But enough about me, how are you hoops? :rolleyes:

Is there any benefit in not jailing somebody today? Since we don't have a clear cut pirate candidate to lock up would it be better to have all our TH's out watching and digging?

I think we need to jail somebody today. It will give us helpful voting information we can use later in the game.

So you want to pursue a wolf killing win and not monopoly i assume? As finding out roles upon jailings will cost us quite a bit of money

Blade, the good news in this game is that a lynch could help clear you for the next day. So you can play the rest of the game as a known good, although it will make you a target for the pirates. But I'm guessing you were already on the top half of the pirate target list if you are a treasure hunter.

I'm not trying to get a role reveal from you at all. What I'm asking is if you want to change your story about actions yesterday, in terms of movements or results from digging. Because from everything I see so far 3 digs should not equal 1 GP.

As far as me, anyone can ask me whatever they want. Path has already revealed what my first two actions were for last night by giving the coordinates after I said that I vouched for him on his first two moves (posts #275 and #294). The fact that he is bidding me up on the necklace makes me pretty certain that our actions entirely mirrored each other. But trying to double back around and killing SnDvls from this spot would be impossible (would need fleet + an extra AP over perfect terrain but not looking up the map right now).

Not sure which way is best at this point. But I think that the more information we have later on the better we'll be. At some point, we're going to find a pirate. When we do, the voting history for him and the history of who voted/did not vote for him become powerful weapons for us to use to find the other pirates.

I'll admit that the presence of the monopoly rule makes it a good discussion to have, but I still think jailing someone today is the way to go.

I agree, jailing is key every day...but the question comes in finding their roles...it costs gold to do so, so we would have to feed gold to someone and trust them to tell us the right role. So while i agree jailing is key, the question comes in spending the gold to find out roles or just save for 100. Every reveal puts us 7 back i believe, while every night kill puts them X up...just wondering about numbers really. Can we afford role reveals with them having 2-3 digging away and getting the gold from every person they kill. Just discussing ideas with you, as in my mind they have far better odds going for 125 over a 1-1 ratio.

I think this is the main question we all need to ask ourselves. There's no possible way for us to win trying to do both. Its one or the other so I think we all need to chime in on how we want to do it.

I think the easiest way would be to put people in jail and then bribe the police into letting us know any evidence against them, and then lynching any pirates. 100GP sounds like a ton, plus, with some of us getting killed off here or there, I think that number could be almost unreachable. Just my $.02.

A couple of things...

KWhit, jerk, I should be on that list :)

Blade and others -- I'm pretty sure (positive, I just went back and checked) SunDvls died on B6. While this is in the same direction as C6, there is a difference. I would agree that some of the people that were seen in C5 were probably the killer and SunDvls.

Also, Blade -- if you were to come out and say that you had a lot of gold, I'd call bullshit, because that would draw unneeded attention to yourself if you were a treasure hunter, and would illustrate a lack of caution in making yourself a target, probably implying that you were a pirate. So claiming that you have very little gold convinces me exactly 0% more that you are not a pirate.

I'm fairly convinced that RA is what he says he is, but I think that we should put him in jail anyways. If we can correctly ID him, that would go a long way. However, what about pirate strategy at this point? Assuming RA is the investigator, do the pirates want him in jail, and you were a pirate, wouldn't you want him in jail? If RA is in jail, the treasure hunters will be squandering resources trying to id him, and then trying to bail him out -- that's an expensive set of moves there. On top of that, it frees the Pirates to start weeding out others without fear of the investigator watching them, and they can always just off RA once he gets bailed out. I think this is a win-win scenario for the pirates on day one.

I hate to predict doom and gloom and not offer a suggestion, but I really don't know what to do. Hopefully some more thought will give me an idea. As for now, I don't think we can afford to keep RA out of jail, even though there are plenty of benefits to the pirates for sending him to jail. The opportunity cost of possibly nailing two pirates (Penny and RA) if RA is actually a pirate is pretty huge.

Still considering over here.

I just don't know the answer to that yet and it might be a bit too early to decide. It depends on what the gp totals are going to be. I didn't make much last night, but I dug fairly close to the hut. If digging further out means that we can make a good bit more gp per turn, it might be possible to get to 100.

Barkeep has said that each dig will earn you from 0-6 gold...I think 100 isn't too far out of the realm of possibility, but people just got unlucky on day one. That, or they're lying to keep a target off their back. I think I'm going to keep my gold total close to the vest...though that may just as well paint a target on my back.

I HAVE 1 GOLD...i promise as much, and i can give it to raiders if you would all like since he is clear. I did not lie about my gold total, in any way. Let me make that part quite clear

I have 2 gold right now. All I can tell you about myself (and sorry for implicating you penny) is that wouldn't it be the stupidest ploy ever to say that I'm the investigator when I'm not? I gotta relook the rules again tonight when I get home for work, but just to let you guys know, I won't be around much tomorrow or the next day. DAIG is coming here for an inspection and I have to coordinate everything.

I'm not saying that claiming you have little gold makes me think you are any more a pirate, just that claiming you have little gold doesn't convince me that you aren't a pirate either. If I were to be public about my gold total, I'd come up with a suitably low number (probably 1 or 2) regardless of how true it was. There is no benefit (that I can see) to claiming you are rich. Even Treasure Hunters can rob others with that Party Mask.

I disagree. It would be great to put RA in jail and find out he was a pirate so we could get a two for one, but I think the odds of that are very low. I really don't think a pirate would come out and put their ass on the line to vouch for him this early. There's always time to look at RA later on. I think that a better strategy is to assume he's okay for now, but with the caveat that we might want to give him a second look later on.

The benefit would be claiming im rich if either(as a wolf) i wanted people to go to a certain square, or to make it so my gold matched my number of digs...i made an error, much like last game...for similar reasons as well, that im hoping arent as public as im afraid they are...

Way to be 'subtle.' If you're telling the truth, why is it an error (honest question, I'm not totally suspicious of you yet :))?

I can see where you're coming from...

We need to ask ourselves the question -- are we going to try to ID whoever we throw in jail? Why wouldn't we (other than the expense)? We aren't going to learn much if we don't. Personally, I'm happy just going out and digging every day until I have enough gold to throw into a monopoly, and getting the hell out...but I don't know if we'll be able to do that without putting at least a couple of pirates in jail.

Because if you can surmise from my posts im telling the truth about my gold total...i might have fibbed on my actions that brought that result. And by slipping up people have made a big deal of it, and when your a wolf and see non-wolves lying you have a bee-line target...but with raiders already revealing i feel some level of comfort as they work to get him killed and the bodyguard works to defend him...but its a mistake, no matter which side of the fence you stand on in regards to me

Blade, if you don't have extra gold then I don't have an out for you right now. Was going to suggest that you bid up the necklace, but you would need 4 GP to get that at this point.

Really wish you had been able to finger the others in the square with you. Although if you could that would potentially make things pretty easy for us in terms of identifying the pirates ... feels like a Barkeep game-balance mechanism if you are telling the truth.

Quoting this for kwhit since he was asking about this. This is what Barkeep posted about the square replinishment. He didn't exactly answer my question fully Im guessing to hide some of the game's mechanics behind the scene.

SOMEONE, i dont know who, but with many vouched for the list isnt too big, was in C5 at some point...enough for me to see them(outside of assumes sndvls and his killer)....i keep wondering why this person doesnt speak up. I have 1 gold, couldnt bid on the necklace once 2 gold went up....im trying to beat around the bush as to why i only have 1 gold though

I'm not sure how I am forming a faction with Blade when I said he was one of the ones we should look at voting for. Right now I think Blade is acting very mysterious (unlike most games I have seen him in), and that makes me heavily suspicious. More importantly though this is a very complex game, and I just don't want us running down trails without looking at things thouroughly. This game is different than most, in that I don't necessarily think being jailed is always a bad thing for miners. I still am wondering the answer to my question earlier about if miners can be killed while in jail.

Right now I still stand by what i said earlier this morning in the list I said we should look at (including Blade on it), and I also am very confident that you have some pirates in your trusted group just based on probability.

Blade, this is the second time you've mentioned the bodyguard. I don't see that role anywhere in the list.

Nowhere in that post does he discuss replenishment. You did in your question, but Barkeep doesn't confirm or deny that a square replenishes itself after it's empty. In fact, based on Blade's latest posts, I don't think sites replenish themselves at all. I think once they're out of gold - they're out.

As far as I know, we don't have a bodyguard type in this game, unless there are hidden roles.


Recently Barkeep amended this to be 0-6 GP, but how I read this is that each dig acts like a 'roll' against a target number. If you succeed, you find that square's yield. If you fail, you find nothing. So, for example, C5 has a target of three out of six, and a yield of one. Let's say Blade 'rolled' a 1, 2 and 5. The 5 is the only success, so he failed on his first two attempts, and for his success, he gets that square's yield -- 1 gold.

That's how I interpreted that rule, though only pulling one piece of gold in three attempts is pretty pathetic.

You haven't played many werewolf games with Blade, have you? :D

I dug pretty far out myself , and I didn't do any better than you all. In fact it sounds like I did worse than some of you.

Re-reading that rule, it seems like every time you dig on a certain square, you automatically get the yield until that square runs out of gold.


So you're saying you lied about the 3 digs? Why would you do that?

You might be right. I had read it differently, that there was a set rate in each square (0-6) and each dig would give you that particular number. So in you're example, C5 gives 1 gold per dig and Blade is lying about how many digs he made.

That is the right question...

Here is my idea on how to get 100 gp. Once someone finds a spot on the map that looks like a gold mine (5-6 gp per dig). All they have to do is get to that spot again see if it replenished the same. If it's still good, then use Mike's messaging service to tell someone you trust. Then go that spot again, camp out, dig all the next day and that should give us a nice chunk of change. If we can find 1 or 2 of these "gold mines" I think 100 gp is possible.

Now that I revealed my strategy for the game, I hope I don't die before I get a chance to see if it works.

Blade has all but admitted that he lied about his actions. I think (unless someone else can come forward and say that had differing results on digs in the same place) that all digs give the same yield until all gold is gone.

The only thing I can come up with (outside of him being a pirate) is that Blade is the Paranoid Treasure Hunter, and Barkeep asked him if he wanted to do anything about it after realizing someone was watching him.

Ding ding ding! We have a winnah!

I'm pretty sure at least a few people were thinking the same thing :)

This is the biggest issue I'm having right now. At first with the way Penny came out buddying up to me it made me wonder if the pirates were doing my strat on Blade from previous games against me. Which would have told me that Penny + Blade + Raiders were pirates. He did know what direction I went in which is a plus, but he could have shadowed me on purpose for that intent.

I honestly have no idea if this is a huge pirate plan thats so crazy that we would discount it because why would they do it this early, or if I am just being ultra-paranoid right now.

I still am struggling for where the best place for Raiders might be. If pirate, it would be nice to nab him + Penny. If he isn't,well we don't want our witness (investigator) sitting behind bars while we spend 4 gold on discovering his role and then 11 to bail him out.

since the raiders mess ups Blade has come out with what people seem to have outed as a lie (I think I even read where he admitted to lying, I would have to go back to double check). I find it very fish to see someone lying on day 1 near the death scene from this morningwhich is why I was so hard on Raiders earlier.

Either way, I don't think people in trouble should be doing role reveals, I DO think we should try to pay police off to find roles though as best as possible.

Around, not in...i know which way direction they were going...he died in C6. The river prevents him from really moving past it, and i know he went to C6 and not B6...just clarifying for you, he didnt not go from C5 to B6...

Yeah, when I reread about the replinishment, I think you are right. I understood him saying the rate vs overall total as being replinishment rate. But I think now in rereading it, he meant the rate of discovering gold per dig turn. Basically I asked a question and he answered a different question for me!

Good strategy.

But I want to point out again, that I don't think mines replenish. First, it doesn't make sense because gold mines don't just grow more gold overnight. But based on the wording of the rules, I think that a mine will produce the same amount of gold on every dig to every player until the gold runs out and then it will be dead for the remainder of the game.

I could be wrong, but that's how I read it.

Why not stop beating around the bush and throw out the name of the person who killed SunDvls?

You know what? I'm not buying this mysterious role one bit. If you have a role and are a good guy, you're either an Athlete (6 AP instead of 5); a Paranoid (you know you're being watched, no need for wasted AP as far as I can tell, though it seems a very vague benefit by reading the rules); or a Thug (can rob a player once in the game). I tend to believe that Raiders is the Investigator.

So with any of those three other roles, I don't see any reason for lying and being all mysterious about what you did last turn. I think you're bad.

VOTE BLADE