Nothing to be sorry about, that's what I wanted. TBH, I sent in my scan around 9AM today and it was always about these two for me.

I get what you are saying about JAG, but the more he's been around the better I've felt about him which isn't necessarily a good thing. ;)

For EF, posts from Day 1:

Post 871

True. As I mentioned day 2 though I've had a hunch about timmae and am SO CURIOUS to see if I was right!

I feel like suspicions have been pinned on me erroneously all game long. I was called out for not changing my day one vote on Jackal, even after I said I wouldn't be around that night.

I've had suspicions on timmae all game. I left my vote on him at a time when, again, I said I wouldn't back again until past deadline.

My guilt is being based off of my unavailability to change votes when I have stated I am otherwise indisposed.

We have good players in important roles right now. path's advice is to be heeded, as is Narc's. But those who are so eagerly and readily available to jump on it their side should be looked at carefully.

I'm looking at timmae first and then font. Her aggressiveness on EF ticked boxes for me as I've said. There's something 'off' in the way timmae has played this game and it's raised my eyebrow.

Hell yeah!! Go team pokey!!

I think I balanced this a little too pro village. I probably need to get rid of the martyr or added a cultist or both.

Thanks for running this zinto... I had a ton of fun!!

Good game all. Thanks for the game Z.

Well done path!!!

Yay!

So wolves, why Britrock?

So much for that plan..

Yes, way to go path!

Now explain to me your tells on my play... I was all over the board so I have no clue what you saw!!!

Sorry autumn, no harm meant man. Also grover... I was a bit tunneled on your play.

Awesome post though... I loved the artist license on weaving that tale!!

Clearly it wasn't true but I would have kept it in my pocket for future use anyway. :devil:

Somebody explain to me why Grover is dead? Shouldn't narc be dead since he protected Path?

We agreed at the beginning that we would not kill font, narc or chief on night one. And we also agreed we were going to get owned.

To be honest we wanted to create confusion, and it seemed to work.

I scanned Grover so he would have come up wolf and we would have had a day just like this one, I suppose.

Path scanned grover.. actions must come before night kills

I just accelerated the last day. Path scanned Grover and he would have just been voted out tomorrow.

You dog! The funny thing is my first game of WW was The Rebirth which was essentially a RPG game. Then Drenai which I was NK'd N2. Then I was wolf in WoT. How the hell can anyone build a profile of my play during that run?! LOL..

And path, I seriously had you targeted for the night kill last night until ten minutes to go and I made the executive decision to switch to chief. I wasn't kidding when I said I was upset today, but not at the team, just myself. You were the smart kill and I convinced myself otherwise.

Technically Narc is gone I just didn't write it out because I wrote the post out a couple of hours ago and didn't double check it.

Once the final wolf was scanned there was really no sense in playing out the last day, that is my take on it.

You can learn a lot about how people play when you know their allegiance from the start.

Sigh.

We tried.. the results were as expected.

Good work village. Thanks Zinto. Agreed that a cultist is usually a fun addition.

I was kind of kicking myself for coming out against it because as Zinto knows I had already thought I had left way too many hints about being the seer.

guess I can log back into steam.. I was trying to look as pissed as possible so I was exiting out of all my programs.

I honestly don't think it would've changed much. You would get voted out today, I laid out the case for Autumn being clear before path's as an result, we follow path's breadcrumbs on EF, and are still lead to Grover for he same reasons. Voting Raven out was the key for the village.

The NK on britrock essentially gave us 2 D1s, because of so much focus on EF. We knew EF would still have a lot of focus on D2, so he'd get at least some of the votes, and the other focus would most likely be on another villager.

Things actually were going exactly that way as 30 mins after N1, EF already had 2 votes. If EF doesn't lock himself in on Shoveler so early after N1, the voting for D2 would have likely been all over the place.

A few people said that NK on Brit was not a good move, but I think they actually didn't understand it. I still like the move, but think EF locking in on Shoveler had a negative snowball effect on us.

Most fun I ever had was being a cultist in the Draft game. Just got to cause havoc for much of the game (fun when even getting killed helps your cause).

Yes, but my reveal set me up to be the sacrifice. However, Raven ended up getting lynched and everything went to shit in a matter of minutes.

See, not a meaningless vote. :D

That was crappy luck for you guys.

+1 It was a brutal stretch for you guys. In most games that vote probably ends up on Autumn.

Oh well, we learn.

Agree on the Raven vote ending up key. That's why I think the balance was fine, you just had bad luck to have the fake reveal save one but land on another wolf.

I had one good game, the first. Perhaps this is not for me.

Thanks again, Zinto and everyone, I had a great time. Three games in a row werewolves me out for awhile, but I'm sure I'll be back in eventually.

It's an ebb and flow kind of thing. You'll have stretches where you will feel dialed in and playing great and you'll have stretches where you ask yourself if you have any clue at all. I feel like I have had more of the latter than the former but keep plugging away.

Btw, thanks for hosting, Zinto.

I actually think that being a wolf this game will help me be a better villager in later games.

Honestly, this was a hell of a lot of good villagers you played against.

I wouldn't say that. Just remember alot of these guys have played this game for years. I know in this game I found myself staring at whatever I wrote for what felt like forever trying to look at it from every angle to see how I thought I was going to get trapped. I wrote so many posts that never made it to the thread.

Just need to keep plugging away at it I would imagine.

That's also totally true.

You'd be missed... who else would I list twice in my posts! It'll turn back around... keep at it man!

You haven't even been able to get into the flow of a role. You started as single person bad team, then went to a power role and now you were a wolf on an all newbie team. Trust me it gets easier or at least more comfortable.

Well, that was quick.

gg all

Next time I'll be more mindful of what does and doesn't flow in the games here. ,_,

Thanks Zinto.. We sucked, but it was fun.

I liked your claim... I see where it can completely mess up the level 1 thinking for the wolfies for a few days. No more tic tac toe. Nice play there my friend!

Nice work, path. Raven vote was definitely crucial.

Fun game. Well done town.

good game

Grover, your main mistake was the waffling over which of Path and Shoveler were telling the truth. Going with the flow there and maybe expressing some happiness over getting Raven and Shoveler would have let you survive a little longer. Bussing, especially when Shoveler was going down the first time, would have helped a lot too.

Ef, sorry for freaking you out. It just felt so out of left field when you normally seem like a really level headed guy.

I went over the top a bit. Part was "not twice in a row" and once I got to where I figured I was done I wanted to go down fighting a bit. You seemed to get a bit too defensive early on. From there it seemed like every time I turned around you were leading the charge against me; really hard for a day one charge.

It is what it is.

I'm still feeling a bit lousy but I really didn't want to post that in thread (I didn't care if I was voted out and figured it would clear up the first day anyway) and have it seem like a lame way to get sympathy. It kind of worked out as I was laying low from almost anything on Tuesday so knowing that I couldn't change kept me from wanting to check back in.

It's all good, no residual from this. (though I really hoped you were a wolf this game :) )

I can understand your thinking but there is a reason taking out Britrock suggested inexperienced players and that's because it helped the village with vote clarification and made it look like Eagle was being set up. Had you taken out anyone else I'm pretty sure Eagle gets lynched day two no matter what. I would have voted for him. If nothing else then because he tied the vote which is a wolf move unless he has a power role, which he'd already claimed he didn't.

There was a fair bit of luck on the villagers side though first landing on Shoveler and then on you on day two. It's pretty hard to know how much is random and how much is valid reads, probably a bit of both although mostly random in my case.

I have to say that I'm very impressed that you managed to back away and look elsewhere on day two. When I get in the mood that I've convinced myself someone is a wolf I won't budge come hell or high water. To the extent that I would doubt a seer scan that says otherwise.

I actually appreciated it and I hope you continue playing the way you do. It makes things much more interesting if there are other ideas and attitudes introduced and I think that's reflected in the fact that there was more discussion on day one than is usual in a vanilla game like this.

I find I get more frustrated than I'm having fun.

I struggle with reading into posts and going through vote history etc, etc. Most of the time I'm going through the motions of no real idea of what I'm trying to accomplish. I feel like I'm out of my depth around here. That's all.

The first couple days are the hardest for reading into posts. Some people have remarkable intuition, but for most people it's a matter of prodding and questioning people until you get something that doesn't make sense

For voting analysis, it's mostly a matter of knowing that the wolves know each other and the villagers don't. There are certain things that wolves don't usually do, like purposefully voting out roles wolves, that can provide evidence that a player is more likely to be a villager or the other way around, a vote like you had D2 where you tried to help out Shoveler looked like a wolf trying to protect another wolf. Of course it doesn't always work out, especially with veteran wolves. Not sure if reading through old games appeals to you, but the voting analysis done in this game has always been one of my favorites if you're interested in some pointers:

Breakout Kings: Werewolf Style (Game over - village wins) - Front Office Football Central

Thank you, Zinto!! Was still a fun game with the last minute (seconds?) plays by me and EF then the immediate NK on brit. Don't know how the wolves targeted brit ahead of EF and I being tied...that could have been a triple lynch if the tie = both EF and I getting lynched.

I think you're just fine, Grover. You were the last wolf standing after all, and that was with your time commitments getting in the way. As was pointed out, you also had an All Star team of villagers in this one (JAG, The Jackal, EF, Autumn, path, Narc for starters, font clearly has a ton of experience at BGG; really, there weren't any slouches over there, and they were all participating, too).

Can't expect to beat the 1927 Yanks with a team trying to learn on the fly. Now that I know the whole situation, I think you guys did some really interesting things, and I am very intrigued to see how you, Raven and Shoveler continue to grow as WW players).

And, yes, thank you Zinto! I had fun with this game.

Naw, don't change. The first time doing something new (new to us at FOFC) can be rough, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value.

FTR, I still view it as a strategy that introduces needless confusion into the village thinking, but if you think it has value, I encourage you to keep trying it and prove to me what value it can have.

font, as intense as much of our sparring was, I just wanted to say I enjoyed the back and forth with you. It definitely got me into the game.

I'm not going to say there wasn't anything personal, because that's silly, we were really going at it. I definitely wanted to be "right" in our argument, you know? lol But for me at least, I don't carry anything over, except maybe I'll meta vote you on Day One. :D

And I still don't like the style/approach with which you went after EF, but I understand your strategy there at least. It's not one I would employ, but I can get behind a strategy of putting pressure on players and seeing how they react.

I look forward to Day One voting you in the next game.

As an after the game discussion point, during the last hour of my fake reveal I had considered putting the night kill on myself. I'm not sure if that is a valid move in the game (can the wolves target themselves?) to see if the martyr was protecting me. But in the end with narc and chief being unable to react, there were to many possibilities that came to mind where that wouldn't work out well.

Interesting. If you recall, I put out that possibility (wolf targeting wolf) during my argument with font.

I was considering whether the wolves would actually target one of their own on the assumption he would protected by the martyr. I thought that would be a very risky move, though.

That's a really interesting idea. Totally risky, but interesting.

Well after the vote turned on raven we were sort of hosed. So at that point making my reveal look legitimate was sort of pressing. The martyr was the number one priority, if he got taken out after the reveal it would make me look legitimate. But we had no idea who that would be, we had the seer nailed down to three people, and two of those three ended up being the two roles, but of course we chose poorly and plucked chief the vanilla villager.

Yeah it's pretty amazing how a game can turn on a dime in the space of a few minutes like that.

If EF doesn't lock himself onto Shoveler, OR font doesn't flip her vote from EF to Shoveler, we could have been in perfect shape heading into Day 3. As long as font and EF were still alive and battling it out/targeting each other, it played well for us.

Unfortunately for us, both of those things went against us, so we'll never know!

Truth. Just the game before we had that insane triple-kill for the wolves.

Great game, Zinto, it was fun to do a plain jane game for a change. And it's fun to have so many new players, makes it tricky again to figure people out.

I think it would have worked because I had a conditional that meant I was protecting you. That would have been a great play.

I think the dialogue I had with Danny is my favourite experience in werewolf here. It's not often I get the chance to experience that.

Cool idea. On D3 I was wondering how things would've changed if you picked Narc to kill rather than CR.

I'm a little down about because I had path on my radar as a potential target from D1. We decided to do what we did to cause confusion and it worked to an extent.

We really were closer than I want to admit. I'd just rather be bummed out about losing so handily.

Hey now, at least it wasn't a shutout!

Yeah, Grover. I can already picture the relief you'll feel when you get a couple cracks at being a vanilla.

And wolf-team, good job on assessing the situation and trying some out-of-the-box play. You had to deal with a veteran village and were on the wrong side of some of the breaks of the game. Keep at it!