Fixed with a smilie (or saddy?)

I early voted CF because he asked me for my vote and was asking strange. If I would have been home my normal two hours to deadline I probably would have tried to get the vote off of CF as he started to seem like a villager, but I couldn't do that where I was. Any part of my interactions with Danny that ping you in particular you want clarification on?

We have more than one cop, couldn't another cop guard the one who comes out saying they made the block? The one who blocked could then guard the seer in case his reveal is legit.

Speaking of our seer, did I miss a posting of who he had scanned as clear? Is there a disadvantage of posting who he's scanned that I'm not thinking of? (maybe narrowing down conversion targets for 2face or something?)

About to head off to work, some final thoughts.

I think Tyrith is probably a villager.

I'm not a fan of the way Danny has been voting people up all over, could be the normal way he operates, but to me it leads to unnecessary reveals like yesterday or no chance to reveal like day 1.

Vote Danny

Heading into work, be on phone until about two hours to deadline.

We did have more than one, Abe was lynched day one as a cop so we are down to one now.

I think there are three cops left, one of which has the BG role

Well, one cop and two forensics officers. We should probably avoid mixing the two types. They do completely different things.

I didn't vote Mau and had nothing to do with his reveal. Day 1, I never voted Abe and his roled lynching certainly had nothing to do with my votes. That whole argument that my voting people up "causes reveals" is ridiculous. I create action in which to get vote history and gauge people's actions. People don't need (and certainly don't) reveal when I put something out there and see what catches on. A quiet game with little action favors the wolves. They can plan better, help set candidates and manipulate things more.

I meant to say this sooner.. I scanned tyrith last night and he's not our killer.

And for the most part, you are the only one I have been trying to get voted up. But yes, when I am a villager, I will try and help dictate or even force the action. It certainly is better than letting the wolves do so.

I'm the last person to be questioning Seer scans, but what made you pick Tyrith?

I'm trying to think if Commo's reaction and voting me is worse or better for him. It doesn't appear that I would be getting a ton of votes based on the thread action, so unless he is trying to protect Chief Rum, would he make that vote?

Probably Crimson's post saying he was sure Tyrith was a wolf.

I'm still fine voting Tyrith, especially with mau not being totally trusted. But the BG should still probably guard him tonight.

I'm pretty certain Mauboy is good. Even though he revealed when he wasn't the leading vote-getter, I would have made the same reveal, especially if I knew I might not be around to watch any last minute switches. Two-face can't kill him so the danger isn't there that would normally be there

Questions for Autumn:

1. What is the order of night actions? Specifically, if a player is converted to a supervillain on a given night and on that very night, Rachel Dawes scans him, will she see him as a supervillain or a non-supervillain?

2. When a disturbed citizen becomes a supervillain, are they told the identities of the other disturbed citizens? Or is it just the other supervillains?

And it really sucks that if Mau is the Seer, he can't be night killed, can't be converted, and can't be corrupted, while when I'm the Seer I get lynched because I could be lying, could be corrupt, or could be converted.

Not. Bitter. At. All.

i still think you were a wolf

Mau can be NKed if/when there is a new supervillain, that's for sure.

I should just say Dawes there, but you know what I mean

Order is

1. Scans
2. Protect
3. Kill

So a "conversion" would happen after the scans.

All Supervillains always know all the other Supervillains. They never know the Disturbed Citizens. They're too busy being super to deal with that.

Bug, it isn't that I have anything against you, it's that I don't have anything against anyone else. That's our problem.

On my phone, will probably check in again later.

Okay, so mau's scan doesn't clear Tyrith of being converted last night. He would have been converted (if that's what happened) after the scan.

That is ok in a normal game, but when wolves can't talk and very few are known to other voting history is harder to go off of. Still can help but not as much, if anything I just see constant movement as a way we get people revealed. Much like last night, mau was not in the lead when he revealed, but when there is lots of movement and different runs, which it seems to me you try to do on different people some may reveal when they don't have to. I completely understand trying to get a read on people, but it doesn't always have to be done through voting.

I agree that that sort of action is your normal method but I'm not understanding why you think it's applicable here. What do you hope to gain by pushing Crimson close to mau, for example? I don't think normal voting standards apply here - everyone should be voting for who they think is most likely to be a baddie/least likely to be a goody. And I think you'd realise that which is what makes me wary of you. Along with the strange interaction with Commo.

Woh! How did that happen? 15 minutes time difference and I say exactly the same thing as Commo, except less well. Not quite up there with DT's effort yesterday but still pretty impressive.

Was Listening to: Armen van Buuren featuring Nadia Ali, Who is Watching?

Now Listening to: Frankie Valli, Can't Take my Eyes off You

Next in Queue: Pristina, The Killing Jar

Unless explicitly countered I'm presuming that mau is the seer and that there are two killers so the bodyguard has to be protecting mau tonight.

I chose him as I figured he would be a Lynch candidate today based on what others were saying.

I just have a hard time seeing you following that theory onto voting for Crimson given the way he was acting. The theory was pointing to Crimson being Two-Face. Did you honestly think anyone is going to play like that if they're the only wolf in the game? I get that hind-sight is 20-20 but I'm not really buying it.

Not keen on your hesitance in considering candidates today. Like yesterday it feels like you're looking for pointers to help you decide where to vote.

Like I was saying yesterday, not like you were doing yesterday.

Even if you 100% believe Mau, you could still vote Tyrith since his scans only show Super Villains which there are at most two, so he could still be one of the three deranged citizens.

That's the thing, though, Narc, there's not a lot to go on in this game, and even the voting trends we're trying to find are guesses in a game in which there is only one real wolf to start. The wolves and could be wolves can't even talk to each other either.

You're seeing wolfy hesitance in my approach. But what's really happening is that I am trying to glean something--anything--from what little we do have, and that takes time and posts. And especially when most of the day, I am checking in from work and catching up.

My CF vote yesterday was mostly about the theory I presented being the only one presented to that point that had any kinda logic behind it, and the fact that he was in the mix. I wasn't going to avoid the Commo-CF runoff that was going at that point; that would have been even more suspicious. And both CF and Commo were posting all over the place, so not like I could choose one over the other on the basis that one is being more subdued. mau hadn't really come up as a candidate yet, and in any case, it seems proven that a vote there is not a good one either.

So not sure what you want me to do in that situation. Go against my own theory, find another candidate on what reasoning, and do a throwaway vote on someone not in the running?

It seems to me I am damned if I do, damned if I don't, with your thinking.

And the way that night actions are processed there was only one super villain when the scan took place.

On re-reading I have to say that this is pinging me somewhat. It makes sense given the last game but still it's comments like this that people have to be wary of.

I have to say I really wish I could be around a lot later than I am here. I'm really interested in seeing how the voting develops at the time.

It wasn't solely Commo-CF at the time of your vote. Mau was there as well. But I can see your point but you know, you would say all that if you're a wolf.

But yes, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Isn't that the motto of Werewolf. :)

I disagree with this. Every game there is only a handful of people who really know anything. Sure voting records are a little easier to look at in those games but it doesn't stop anyone from speculating about anything. All being UTR does is make it harder to get a read on you the way that most lynches happen on, which is not hard evidence, it is all vibe.

I tend to refer to previous games when making humorous comments (like the latter was). It's also not the first comment I made towards Commo this game :)

I'm not going to leave my vote hanging as might be the case if I leave it on Chief

Unvote Chief Rum
Vote Commo

I don't care if it becomes a runaway - I'm more concerned about getting a bad guy with two killers on the loose than voting record.

Like I said - most suspicious of Commo, Chief, Lathum and Danny at this point. I want one of them lynched and I don't want the vote going over to Zinto or whoever becomes the flavour of the moment this time.

So why make me the runaway?

I hope you are coming back with a reason for voting Narcizo, Lathum since just voting him without an explanation doesn't do anything for anyone.

PackerFanatic
Sndvls
Lathum
NTNdeacon
Dzilla77
J23
Saldana
Mckerney
Daddy Torgo

This is a pretty big list of people of we have no insight on whatsoever and it's already day 3

You're probably correct here. Since there has only been one wolf who is known to others, reading vote history is not very helpful as long as two face is not involved.

Yeah, maybe Tyrith was on the right track with his suggestion to vote out people who are not really contributing anything.

I still have no information as a vanilla villager so I'm just gonna throw something a the wall and see if it sticks.

vote PackerFan

again no reason 'cept I don't want to vote Commo at this point

Boy we're spread out

I don't think that's the best idea, but it would be pretty easy for two-face to hide out in that list.

I want to vote out Packerfanatic, but I would hazard a guess (and it's probably metagaming) that he isn't two-face, despite not placing a vote. Unless he also didn't place a night kill, which would explain the lack of a night kill, if it wasn't a conversion, but I don't think anyone would agree on that being it

One of the things that has struck me are the outlier votes. I am much more interested in them than I normally am. They seem to have more implications this game than most.

A disturbed nudging two face with a vote that wont end in a vote off.
Arkham getting lucky on night 1 and not wanting to reveal, but show who could be disturbed.

There are probably other reasons to hint besides those, but those are a couple that I can think of.

Clearly SnDvls vote is not in this idea, Since we know at least a little about Zinto.But it is something to keep track of I think.

At the time of my vote, mau had votes but was not a significant part of the vote. He was well behind Commo and CF. mau received a lot of votes after I voted.

Was Listening to: Claudia Leitte, Trilhos Fortes

Now Listening to: Depeche Mode, Shake the Disease

Next in Queue: Chicago, Vote for Me

I don't like this vote. PF has not been around. It's metagamey, but we can't help what we know. We know Two Face is active, and PF is not. Ergo, PF is not Two Face.

So this is a throwaway vote with little chance of being a hit, IMO.

We're grasping for a second candidate besides Commo, and this strikes me as a suspicious vote. So I am going to go here for now.

VOTE SNDVLS

Looking back at this post, there is one combo that hasn't had one member of the "duo" cleared yet, Mckerney and DaddyTorgo and DaddyTorgo missed a vote yesterday.

Looking at all of those possible folks to vote on, not many have raised any questions in my mind yet...At least not enough. But I don't want to spread out the discussion more. I am kinda speculating between Tyrith and MrBug of those choices. Since I know the least about them.

Vote Tyrith

Hmm...while we have acknowledged that the conversion can have happened after the scan, isn't it a likely low percentage play to vote the guy that was scanned by Dawes as a non-supervillain?

Unless you're thinking he's done enough prior to that to be a possible Disturbed Citizen. Regardless, just curious as to your thinking on that.

Pretty sure that whole idea of Chief's is a dead end.

How do we know two face has been active?

Well, when I say we can't know anything, it's not as much about roles as the nature of our voting data. We can't learn much from the votes because there aren't any connections between the wolves, except for one way between the disturbed citizens and Two Face. Most of the first two days are just chaff. We're still waiting for our starting point to start unraveling the wolves.

cool works for me, but being all metagamey and all....remember I wasn't on night 1 and didn't vote day 1.....just metagamey and all :p

Yes it is a low play. I really just forgot Tyrith was scanned. Regardless there is more chance that anyone is a disturbed citizen than a supervillian still. (I am assuming 2 supervillians and 3 disturbed citizens)

Unvote Tyrith

We don't have a lot of options at this point.

Time to make a move before class.

Vote Lathum

He's been just posting and running. His vote for Narc is rather curious as there hasnt been much discussion on him. I would have at least liked to have seen "I get a wolf vibe" from him as at least it's something.

All we know is that Tyrith isn't two-face, he could have been converted last night after mau's scan.

I'm hosting a dinner party so I'm going to be pretty much out of here until the deadline, if the people leave by then.

Okay CR did say that in response to NTN's vote, I was more looking at NTN's post.

I'm getting a better vibe from Tyrith today than the previous two days but that could be him playing well, not sure. I'll check later to see if there's any steam in this direction or if I need to change my vote.

I see dead people (hoops). And I'm not willing to assume last night's non-kill is due to supervillains asleep at the wheel. Are you?

yet you keep a vote on me? you were grasping at straws to try and put on a quick throwaway vote.

unvote packerfan

vote chief rum

I'm just saying it isn't certain he is active. On phone so can't check but packerfanatic was on day one so he could have just put in a kill on a typically strong player, was not on yesterday and no kill. just because we have had nk on an extended day 1 and no kk day two does not imply we have an active two face, later tonight will give us more, hopefully, but I can't say it is known twoface is active because of what we have seen thus far.

I think if you are going to vote for someone because they where no on yesterday and there was no night kill it is a mistake. There is a much better chance that there was a kill on a deranged then that happening.

Yes, I keep my vote on you because you chose to throw away your vote on a player who is quite unlikely to be Two Face, given his participation level. And because a runaway on Commo does us no good, and there isn't much to go on with the other candidates that are getting votes. IMO, your PF vote was the worst move among the candidates.

Doing some sort of vendetta vote on me doesn't really make you look better, either.

No, PF came on after Day One (either Night One or early Day Two), and apologized for not getting a vote in and not being active. And then he missed the Day Two vote as well.

Sorry, I don't see how it's good gameplay to go against the logic here and presume Two Face has not been active. We have a dead villager and to assume last night was because of non-action is just plain foolish.

Exactly.

if this was directed at me I never voted packerfanatic, just laid out that we can't tell how active two face has been until he is dead.

cuz there was a night kill on night one?

Dola, getting bad feelings towards chief, zinto and packerfanatic. Will look up more of their posts when I get home.

lol

so to summarize, we really dont know alot about alot of people at this point, me included according to one list, which is fair,as i had no time to post today from work.

for myself, i am always wary of people that have a theory about everyone...it always feels like throwing every player against a wall and hoping something sticks, and i see quite a bit of that today...just random accusations against various people, looking to see who they can get other people to follow on

i want to reread the day after i give my kids dinner before i figure out my vote

That does not imply activity in thread or game. the n1 kill order could have been put in monday for all we know. It is ludacris to try and gleen activity level of two face based on a night one kill and nothing happening day two. even then we can't tell how active in thread two face is. I'm starting to think two face is quiet and people that know that are trying to help take heat off.

WINNING!

My vote is staying put unless someone gives me a compelling reason to move it.

while i am not a big fan of hit and run votes, i kind of like Lathum's vote on Narcizo...the easiest way to keep attention off yourself is by directing it on others, which is what narc is doing..

for now at least

vote narcizo

I really don't know where I am going with my vote. I was on Commo obviously, but not so sure now.

That logic fits me to a T

I am still on the road. I will be back at deadline unfortunately. I will try to put a vote in before then. But it will be without reading up on what has happened today.

This post is full of awesome.

well I don't really like Narc as that second candidate. Unless I see a better option....

Vote Commo

Back from work, got out a little later than I anticipated/hoped.

Well, today's vote isn't going to tell us much, even if Commo is a disturbed villager or 2-face.

Glad to see so much conversation and so many people flying UTR / doing hit and run votes.

Mine as well come out now since I don't think I'll be convincing anyone otherwise.


This.

Also, night one I had put in to do my first check on hoops, but switched a little before deadline because CF asked me if he would have my vote. I thought that meant he was the wannabe since that role knew who I was. That is part of the reason I voted CF yesterday.

Unvote Danny

Not sure who I'd like to vote, but earlier today I was thinking Chief, Zinto, Narc, and Packers.

Triple dola, Also I don't think it is wise for the BG to protect me tonight. I'm done now that I've revealed and can't do any more good staying alive.

Okay...Football Manager is going...what's up with WW?

Well we're doing a heck of a job so far this game. Your reactions toward me had me leaning the other way of what I felt yesterday, so I think you are telling the truth. I still don't know where I am going with my vote though.

On ny phone but didn't the wanabee die before that?